Metagame PU Old Gens + Discussion

[SergioRules]

Hello again! Huge ADV Update time!
I've been talking about this in Discord for a while now but all the pieces have finally fallen into place. NU completed their VR update a while ago and I finally have all the responses from the ADV PU Revamp group. The group of voters was made up of myself, Akir, LordST, and the three finalists of the ADV PU TOURNAMENT: Eve, TSR, and Lily.

Because Old Gen lower tiers are not based on usage but rather the tier above's Viability Rankings, we had two options for keeping the tier up to date after NU did their update.

• Option 1: Use NU's B- tier and below. This would keep all existing Pokemon currently in ADV PU while also adding 15 new Pokemon.
• Option 2: Use NU's C tier and below. This would keep ADV PU largely the same but we would lose Minun and Wigglytuff.

There was quite a bit of discussion about these changes, though most of us were in favor of Option 1. If you'd like to read, I'll post the results of each of the questions and a little summary of one underneath each here:

Survey Results

What rank should we take from NU's Viability Rankings?

The main discussion behind this was that we would all love to see some sort of change with ADV PU, with the one vote of taking only C and below mainly being because they were concerned that the tier would lose its charm.

Do you think any of the B- and below mons should be quickbanned?

Mainly here, most people are open to trying everything in the tier for at least a little bit to see what is good and what isn't Kingler seems initially very strong but is held back by its low Speed. Likewise, Sunny Day Tangela on paper can outspeed and 2HKO most of the tier if given the opportunity. Shelgon is like a bulkier but slower Dragonair but with Brick Break for Steels so it has more freedom in its Hidden Power choice. Definitely some things we will have to keep an eye on.

Would you be interested in unbanning Dunsparce/banning Furret?

The Dunsparce debate was interesting as while we were not in favor of reintroducing it, someone did bring up the idea of having a casual tournament where Dunsparce is allowed just to see if it would make an impact on the tier. As far as Furret goes, we all want to see what the tier is like with the new drops first before any action is taken. While we would get some more Rock-types in Magcargo and Graveler, Furret can run Surf as a lure for them fairly easily and Mawile can Intimidate but has to be very careful of switching into Brick Breaks too often or even a rare Focus Punch. We mostly agree that it will probably still be an S-rank threat.

So with all of that said, we now have 15 new additions to the ADV PU tier!

• Abra
• Arbok
• Graveler
• Kingler
• Lickitung
• Magby
• Magcargo
• Mawile
• Piloswine
• Seadra
• Seviper
• Shelgon
• Swalot
• Tangela
• Togetic
• Tropius
• Volbeat

I will be updating the resources in the OP on the ADV PU website over the next few days and will try to get some sample teams going with the help of my crew. If you would like to help see how the new meta is, I'll always be down for some Showdown battles with the new drops and am open to hearing opinions from anyone. I'm excited to help this tier develop more and I can't wait to see what the future holds for it!

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I'm just asking, why isn't Seviper listed as ADV PU despite being unranked in the ADV NU VR? Did it get banned from PU like with Dunsparce?

Bit of a simple question but I'm curious still. IMO, I think there should be a section on the website listing PUBL stuff to separate them from actually NU tier Pokemon in the banlist.

 

[SergioRules]

I'm just asking, why isn't Seviper listed as ADV PU despite being unranked in the ADV NU VR? Did it get banned from PU like with Dunsparce?

Bit of a simple question but I'm curious still. IMO, I think there should be a section on the website listing PUBL stuff to separate them from actually NU tier Pokemon in the banlist.

to be honest, I overlooked Seviper because it was unranked and I had really only been looking at the B-/C ranks when doing a lot of this. But this actually did bring my attention to another mon we missed being Magby. Tbh I didn't really think about Seviper because I assumed it was good in NU and figured it would be kinda busted here but after discussing with some of the revamp team, we're at least open to giving it a chance. Magby is an easy new entry, slightly faster than the main other Fire being Charmeleon and added coverage in Cross Chop and Psychic, but less powerful Fire STAB and way less bulk. Previous post and site will be updated soon.

edit: Machoke also is listed on the banlist, but is not actually ADV PU. It was banned before Dunsparce so current ADV PUBL is just those two

 

[wooper]

was super excited about the drops and just had to spend some time crafting up some potential sets for them ! a lot of these looks super fun and im very much so looking forward to building with and around them and seeing how they mesh in the tier. this is by no means meant to be an exhaustive list of moves, spreads, or sets, and was just a fun project i wanted to take on for myself. let me know if you have any questions about what ive included, or if ive missed something major, etc! ive really be on an adv pu high lately (anyone whos been in the room recently has probably seen me asking for games) so this will definitely shake up an already great meta. cant wait for everything to settle down and for the vrs to be updated so adv zu can follow suit with shifts of our own! might edit in some initial thoughts later, but for rn im pooped

edit: now with prospective seviper sets!

 

[Akir]

Gen5 PU Tiering Update

Damp Rock is now banned! Simipour remains banned!

BW PU has reached what is hopefully the last tiering decision in a very long time. By a narrow 60% vote, Damp Rock has been banned, and Simipour's quickban has been upheld with a 70% vote! Thanks to SergioRules Bag of Trixx Lily yandaud TJ EviGaro Feaniix LordST and LpZ for voting! You can see the voting here!

Even though both bans went through, this was not a clear cut vote. Strong opinions surrounded both, and will persist after this ban as well I am certain. Here are some opinions given for your reading pleasure:

Simipour Opinions

Pro-Ban

• Simipour has too few reliable checks in the tier and no true counters as even bulky Water Absorb Pokemon like Mantine and Frillish can be beaten with Nasty Plot+HP Electric. Its speed and power combined are too much for BW PU as it stands
• BW PU simply has subpar countermeasures for Simipour. All of the defensive checks in the tier lose to the proper set after a Nasty Plot, and through the rise of SubSalac, choice scarfers cannot properly revenge-kill since Simipour is faster than a majority of the tier. Not to mention that all of the common defensive checks (Tentacool, Frillish, Yache SpDef Vileplume, Mantine unless HP Elec, Scraggy, Yache Maractus), all of these checks are pressured to handle several other prominent threats in the tier such as the ever-so-busted rain archetype, the versatile Monferno, and many others. Simipour is at the forefront of the banlist imo due to its monstrous damage output, astronomically high success rate, the ability to beat down all of its checks with the proper set, and little-to-no drawbacks.
• Simipour made you stack simi checks in order to keep it at bay, but I'd say the biggest factor for my vote is the NP set, NP and Choice sets have different checks, for example, Tentacool that would be a solid choiced Simi check would be used as setup fodder for SubNP if it doesn't run Sludge Bomb, and that process of guessing its set on an already difficult mon to handle is too much for the tier imo.

Do Not Bans

• Simipour is just not broken. This tier has plenty of Water resists that can stave it off for long enough (Maractus, Shiftry, Simipour itself, Golduck, Jumpluff, Simisage, Swanna, Scraggy effectively... you get the point) and it's often shoehorned into Scarf sets to give it that super strong offense matchup that you want out of it. The Sub NP set is strong but a) hard to fit because it mandates other forms of Speed control, and b) very easy to stop once you know it's coming through priority moves or just... hitting it while it sets up, it's frail as shit after all. Simipour being gone has led the tier to a worse state in my opinion, with various forms of hyper offense (screens, sun, esp. rain) being far too powerful without it there to stop them.

Damp Rock Opinions

Pro-Ban

• Rain is absolutely stupid in this tier. 7 turns to abuse an already busted archetype in a tier with subpar answers to the abusers is way too much for the tier to handle. Not to mention that all of the abusers share the exact same checks, therefore it makes it extremely easy to wear down Frillish/Tentacool/Mantine/Vileplume. The countermeasures for rain are few and far between and as such, the entire archetype has completely warped the tier to an unhealthy state. Damp Rock is without a doubt the biggest question-in-play in terms of current Simipour-less meta.
• Rain is just too obnoxious on builder, you have to stack counterplay in an even worse degree than against Simipour and even then you can still struggle since the rain abusers weaken each other checks. The tier is just not that prepared for strong Water attacks, the only great Water check being Frillish imo. Talking about my PUWC experience, I ALWAYS had to include 2 rain checks cuz of how scared I was against rain, so if you watch my games you can notice the amount of Tentacool + priority + Scarf Golduck I loaded, and my only loss was against rain while using a team that on paper would do well against it. Damp Rock ban is a good way to nerf it cuz I can still see like a mono Rain Dance Mantine or Golduck still working eventually.

Do Not Bans

• In my opinion theres naturally enough counterplay to rain in the tier. Bulky builds have no problems against this because they naturally use audino/tentacool/torterra/frilish/vileplume etc all very good mon in this meta. offensive builds esp spikes HO really dont struggle against it either, because theres so much priority in the tier. Sucker punch on everything, Zebstrika, golduck/swanna/mantine that are all good and can be run to take advantage/counter rain and not be deadweight at all in other matchups, Purugly. Also rain saw little usage during the bw pu classic, and I think the reason is because it doesnt fare that well against the current best builds.
• tier is fine with rain setters are still incredibly mid and mons have too little diversity as breakers, sun had better setting and far more diversified abusers and yet the tier adjusted

I think the tier is very fortunate to have so many people willing to debate over its future. I realize that sounds like a really bland tryhard statement, but I genuinely believe that. BW PU has had a long history of strong indifference, so for there to be a community invested enough in its future to argue is proof alone that the tier has come a long way. But for now, I think this is a potential end of the road for BW PU bans. At the very least, this should be the last in a very long time. There are a few things some of you might be thinking about though, so here are my thoughts on a couple of them:

• Sun is very strong but I do not think it is on par with rain. In all of my tests and all of the battles that I have seen, sun is strong but not a hard MU fish like rain was. HO can fit plenty of counterplay to sun without going significantly out of its way, like Purugly or even Jumpluff, and the stall matchup for sun is a lot bleaker than it is for rain. I expect sun to pop up plenty in the early weeks of PUPL, but then die down as people realize that they aren't getting rain-esque results.
• Beheeyem at this point lives on the fence of being broken vs not broken. My roadmap philosophy going into this long string of bans in BW PU has been the idea that the primary problem with the tier was that there were too many massive threats and not enough room on teams to counter them all. This is somewhat proven with Beheeyem currently: Beheeyem is the most manageable that is ever has been now that people can better afford to handle it. The tier is also much stronger with more wallbreakers, and new tech in the tier has lead it to be "fairly reasonable". That being said though, as is proven whenever a BW PU ladder shows up, Beheeyem can still shred the tier if given the chance. We have all of that tech for it for a reason after all.

So with all of that said, I have added new samples and did a very minor VR update for PUPL with a bigger one planned for after. You can check out the VR and sample team changes here for more details. And as always, huge thank you to Kris and other people on the programming team for being such a huge reason for making these tiers what they are.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

So here's me theorymonning about Seviper after I mentioned it! I'm not too too familiar with ADV PU but I'll try my best regardless.

Seviper's movepool for a Pokemon in this tier is great. Gets a lot of coverage options: Crunch, EQ, Flamethrower, even Giga Drain so you can use it + a seperate Hidden Power like HP Ice or something. Shed Skin is a decent ability, but ofc the problems with it are two-fold: its frail and its slow. It speed ties with Houndour. The slowness doesn't matter as much versus bulkier teams, but it struggles through offensive builds. Fully physical sets are completely outclassed by Arbok who gets the same moves but has Intimidate and better speed which make up for the weaker damage output. IMO I think Seviper will do best taking advantage of its wide movepool with mixed sets:

Seviper @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hidden Power: Ice
Naive Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake / Giga Drain

EQ is for the Fire-types + Lairon/Tentacool. HP Ice I feel is generally more viable than HP Grass because this tier has actually viable targets for the move like Dragonair, Shelgon, and Vibrava. As such, even though its considered a horrible move in this gen judging by its lack of usage, Giga Drain can be used to reliably hit bulky Grounds and Water-types without using your HP slot. Even without much investment, I'm pretty sure Sludge Bomb still does a bit to neutral targets. You can go fully special by using Crunch over Sludge Bomb but realistically all you hit here with Crunch is Duskull and Gastly. Hidden Power slot is quite customizable. HP Fighting to hit Sealeo and Lairon in one slot in addition to the Normals, for instance.

Seviper definitely won't be top tier but it does have a neat niche. It has both power and coverage on both sides of the field compared to other Poisons who are either fully physical or more defensively inclined and thus is quite weak offensively.

 

[Eve]

Hi! I'll be giving my thoughts on, and sets for, each of the ADV PU drops in order. I think some of these are probably a bit busted, but I wasn't confident enough on that to vote for bans before even testing them and they all at the very least have a form of counterplay. I've loosely ranked them into DECENT, GOOD, GREAT, and INSANE, because I don't think any of these are bad and they'll all probably have a substantial impact on the metagame.

Abra - GREAT

Sub + Berry

Abra @ Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Fire Punch
- Substitute

This thing is very, very polarizing. On one hand, it's very strong and fast and has a potent neutral STAB move. On the other hand, anything that it doesn't KO (or priority moves) will almost certainly murder it right back- Banded Furret's Quick Attack can do over 150% on a max roll, for reference. Substitute seems neat to slightly alleviate this issue and shouldn't be too hard to set up with Abra's great Speed and likely tendency to force sacrificial switches in certain matchups. Substitute also conveniently allows Abra to activate boosting berries, either letting it blitz past Minun or unsuspecting weather sweepers with low Speed investment via Salac Berry or becoming a terrifying breaker versus bulkier teams with Petaya Berry. Don't drop Fire Punch or you'll get punished hard by one of our other new drops in Mawile, Psychic and Hidden Power Water (for Houndour btw) cover pretty much everything else quite well regardless.

Arbok - GREAT

Offensive

Arbok @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Giga Drain

I think this might quietly be one of the most meta changing Pokemon we got. The above set has coverage for pretty much everything and it's really fast by ADV OU breaker standards, outrunning Beedrill and the newly arrived Kingler. Oh, and it has Intimidate too which gives it immense value in pretty much any matchup for ending various sweeps or creating switchin opportunities versus weaker opponents. Don't overlook Arbok!

Graveler - GOOD

Choice Band

Graveler @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge / Explosion
- Hidden Power [Bug] / Explosion

Decent I guess? It's kinda just another slower Lairon or Marshtomp with a different typing and a bit more raw Attack. STAB Earthquake over Lairon is cool and not being 4x weak to Fighting is too but being 4x weak to Grass and Water sucks in its own way. Maybe it'll fit some teams because it checks Furret better than the aforementioned two but I think it's sort of threatened by literally everything in the tier, because those offensive typings are immensely common. If I want the perfect Furret answer on defensive teams I'm still taking Shuckle.

Kingler - INSANE

Choice Band

Kingler @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf
- Blizzard

Flail

Kingler @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flail
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Swords Dance
- Endure / Substitute

Bow before your new god- this thing is messed up. Its Normal moves hit nearly as hard as Furret's while having STAB Water moves to dunk on every Rock-type in existence and good physical bulk alongside a solid neutral defensive typing and an immunity to Intimidate because yeah why not. Also, it can punish your scared switching around its Banded set with the Flail set, which is like Salac Beedrill on various performance enhancing drugs (outside of a poor matchup against healthy Steel-types). Luckily it has poor special stats and a Speed stat that can only be called Good, but I think this thing is probably going to be overwhelming. Prepare your Rest Mawiles and DEFINITELY pack Quick Attack more than ever.

Lickitung - GREAT

Defensive

Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

Curse

Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

SD

Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance

It's better Wigglytuff. It's slightly bulkier and it has Heal Bell, Knock Off, Curse, Swords Dance... the list goes on, really. While Curse sets seem good they have to pick their poison, sometimes literally as sets lacking Rest will get ruined by Toxic, Rest sets lacking Sleep Talk are vulnerable to being overwhelmed for free during Sleep turns, and RestTalk sets have to make do with a single attacking move- either Return, which mandates Pursuit support and gets owned by Lairon, or probably some Hidden Power that won't hit very hard at all. Swords Dance Lickitung seems like a respectable breaker but its Speed tier leaves it outran by pretty much everything and it has to sacrifice either longevity or coverage. Defensive sets look cool, but it's hard to really fit most of the flashy moves it has over Wigglytuff because you only have one slot even slightly spare- without Seismic Toss you're total fodder for anything with damage output, and without WishTect you're useless. Heal Bell, Knock Off, and Toxic all then fight for the last slot. All in all though, this Pokemon is going to be fantastic.

Magby - GOOD

Focus Punch

Magby @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Substitute
- Psychic / Focus Punch

Charmeleon? Who's that? This guy has supereffective coverage for the Waters, which is massive, and also outruns Arbok. In return it's insanely frail and not quite as powerful when just clicking Fire STAB. Focus Punch does some decent damage to Lickitung and frail offensive stuff enjoys Substitute anyway so it seems like a solid option, but Hidden Power Ice and Psychic are useful for really muscling past the Dragons and Tentacool. This thing is gonna be a nuisance if it can get on the field safely.

Magcargo - DECENT

Defensive

Magcargo @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic
- Protect

Decent Pokemon with some cool unique qualities and a massive flaw in its Ground weakness. Flame Body on a Pokemon with a Normal resistance and absolutely massive physical bulk is very awesome and might just completely ruin cocky Furrets on the spot, and it's decently strong for a defensive Pokemon with a great STAB that can be easily backed up by Hidden Power Grass. It also completely terrifies any Poison immunes so ToxTect is the biggest freebie on it, also allowing it to scout for surprise Surfs and stuff. Keep in mind, though, that it is slow as hell and gets owned by Hidden Power Grounds or Surfs, so it might be pretty awkward to use given that most of the tier's physical attackers can slot one of those moves quite happily. The awful Speed also locks it out of any offensive roles as it'll get outsped even by the fairly common offensive Omanyte.

Mawile - INSANE

Defensive

Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Toxic
- Protect

Swords Dance

Mawile @ Leftovers / Salac Berry
Ability: Intimidate / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Brick Break
- Taunt / Substitute

Now this is a good Pokemon. Fantastic physical bulk, decent firepower even without investment, and a typing as rare as it is good. I can't see this not being top tier and I don't think I need to explain why in much detail, and that's before considering that its Swords Dance sets are pretty terrifying too. Other moves like Baton Pass, Fire coverage for Tangela/Mawile, Thunder Punch for Kingler, RestTalk etc. could have potential but I think this thing puts in work in every battle no matter which moves you give it. Perfect addition to the tier.

Piloswine - GREAT

Weird Marshtomp

Piloswine @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Bashful Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Protect

This thing really is just weird Marshtomp. The typing comes with pros and cons; it's a better Minun answer and STAB Ground and Ice together cover the vast majority of everything, but it's also weak to Water, neutral to Rock and weak against Fighting and Steel. It also can't pivot in on Magcargo or bait HP Grass from other Fires like Marshtomp can but that's less of note. Outside of typing, it's stronger and bulkier than Marshtomp, so make of it what you will. I think both will be good Pokemon still, with Piloswine probably being the more offensively scary one of the two if you can afford its vulnerabilities.

Seadra - GREAT

Special Attacker

Seadra @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Agility / Substitute

We haven't had a real offensive Water-type outside of Rain for quite a while, with the closest thing that I'd say counts (Poliwhirl does not) being Offensive Sealeo. Seadra brings great stats to the role, namely a massive 95 Special Attack and 85 Speed, alongside respectable physical bulk and even the potential to boost past Furret, Minun, and potential weather sweepers with Agility. You could maybe even try Sub DD Flail Surf, that sounds funny and might break some matchups against unsuspecting opponents. This thing might struggle to get through Sealeos and Tentacools and the like, and its special bulk is really quite poor so Minun and Elekid feast on it, but yeah, it's strong and fast and that's a good combo.

Seviper - GOOD

Mixed Attacker

Seviper @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earthquake / Crunch

A bit hard to justify when you can use Arbok instead which packs great speed and Intimidate, but this one is stronger and kills Mawile and Marshtomp better so there's that. The above EV spread is definitely not optimized, but max Sp.Atk lets you almost always OHKO Marshtomp with Hidden Power Grass so keep that in mind! Crunch shouldn't be overlooked, it lets you break through Duskull quite well while Shed Skin shrugs off burns. Definitely a solid new mid-speed breaker overall, I might be underrating it a bit.

Shelgon - GREAT

Dragon Dance

Shelgon @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Defensive

Shelgon @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Slam / Double Edge / ???
- Toxic / ???
- Wish
- Protect

Shelgon seems awesome. While its Dragon Dance set is more vulnerable to status than Dragonair's is, Shelgon avoids a different kind of residual damage- recoil, thanks to Rock Head. It trades Dragonair's decent special bulk for great physical bulk, and vitally learns Brick Break which grants it amazing coverage in Double-Edge, Brick Break, and HP Ghost. Its lower Speed means it has to use a Jolly nature to outspeed Minun at +1, however, which makes it slightly weaker than Dragonair despite the better Attack stat. It also has an epic defensive set that can check lots of things, including the ever-threatening Combusken! It takes Furret Return quite well too, and can check even HP Ice Minun pretty well until layers of Spikes get involved. Passing Wishes gives it strong utility too. I'm not really sure what moves it should run beyond WishTect yet, it has a whole lot of options. Also the spread is a bit ??? too, I gave it a Leftovers number for HP and then a bunch of Sp.Def for Minun HP Ice and the rest in defense. You can redistribute as you see fit.

Swalot - GOOD

Choice Band

Swalot @ Choice Band
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Grass]
- Explosion

Specially Defensive

Swalot @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze / Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Pain Split / Protect

Offensively it's a worse Arbok, but it can blow itself up and make Ivysaur take a little bit of chip damage too. Maybe pair with Arbok to break stuff down? I don't know. Defensively, Sp.Def sets are probably quite good- this thing is insanely bulky and Toxic immune, but Pain Split is pretty bad reliable recovery when you have 100 HP in this tier and you don't want to give up on coverage that stops you from being a sitting duck for scary things, so that or Protect are your only real longevity options. More than serviceable though, I expect this mon to do well and it really makes Ivysaur and a certain ball of vines regret existing.

Tangela - INSANE

Defensive

Tangela @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 60 Def / 116 SpD / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
- Morning Sun

Chlorophyll Sweeper

Tangela @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sleep Powder / Morning Sun

Speaking of that ball of vines, here they are! This thing is insane and I don't think I'd feel safe against it without a Poison-type Pokemon on every single team. Its defensive sets are hard to remove and annoying and strong and check a huge number of things even if there are Choice Bands involved, it's silly. Meanwhile, its Sunny Day set bravely asks the question "do you have a Poison-type Pokemon or Togetic that hasn't been overwhelmed or removed by my teammates?" and if the answer is no, you lose to it. Every full Sun team should have at least one Hidden Power Ice user in order to keep Dragonair/Shelgon in check, but if that isn't needed on Tangela then Hidden Power Fire is really really strong in the sun. Be afraid!

Togetic - GREAT

20% chance to win

Togetic @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

That one Noctowl set but better

Togetic @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break / Focus Punch
- Shadow Ball
- Double-Edge

I'm glad we have our BP clause in place because Ancient Power Pass would break this tier. As is though, this Pokemon looks fantastic. It actually just straight up has a high PP reliable recovery move which is insanely rare down here, and its bulk and fairly neutral typing is really great too. It's a bulky Earthquake and Spikes immune mon that actually has presence!!!! This thing isn't even that passive despite a lack of special STAB because its Special Attack and coverage are good, and you could probably get away with physical Hustle stuff because its power after the boost isn't even bad by ADV PU standards while still being a pain to take down. Obviously be wary of Rocks, Minuns, and Sealeos, and you won't be walling Furret, but you can definitely tank out Combusken, Tangela, and the like. This is going to be a massively important addition.

Tropius - GOOD

Swords Dance

Tropius @ Leftovers / Salac Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Giga Drain / Hidden Power [Grass] / Substitute / Synthesis
- Swords Dance

Chlorophyll Sweeper

Tropius @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Hidden Power: Fire
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Not a very good defensive typing for the tier outside of its Earthquake and Spikes immunity, but its bulk and offensive presence should make up for that. Swords Dance seems like the best option, with Flying STAB + Earthquake obviously being a fantastic combo. I like the idea of Giga Drain or HP Grass on Swords Dance to dispatch of Graveler and Marshtomp and the likes, but Substitute to abuse passive Pokemon or activate Salac Berry is good too, as is Synthesis to stick around over the course of a battle. Tropius is substantially weaker than other SunnyBeam options but its longevity is pretty substantial, letting it stick around and repeatedly set up Sunny Day over and over for itself and teammates. I think this Pokemon is... good, not much more than that. Really enjoying having more varied Earthquake responses than trash mon Vibrava, mid mon Masquerain, and Houndour food Duskull.

Volbeat - GOOD

Offensive Tail Glow

Volbeat (M) @ Leftovers / Salac Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass / Moonlight / Substitute

Defensive Tail Glow Pass

Volbeat (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt / Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass

Choice Band

Volbeat (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Signal Beam
- Focus Punch / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Shadow Ball
- Quick Attack / Trick

Last but not least, this guy! While it can't do the funky Encore stuff that I think makes its sister really neat, it makes up for that and more. Tail Glow is a crazy move, even if it's basically just Nasty Plot this gen- if Cubone with Thick Club can be a minor threat, then Volbeat sure can be after a Tail Glow too, especially as it can pass that boost to a teammate (probably Minun or Agility Seadra, but maybe even a Tangela). Make sure not to run Salac Berry + Baton Pass on the Tail Glow set because you aren't allowed to pass Speed and another set. Also, be wary of switching something in to try and pressure the Tail Glow pass before scouting, because you may be met with a surprisingly deadly Choice Banded assault instead! Volbeat has great coverage, good Speed, a decent enough Attack stat, and even valuable moves like Quick Attack and Trick to make it a surprising and deadly Choice Band user. Volbeat looks to be a versatile and good Pokemon that might just end games on occasion, don't forget about it!

Very excited to see all of these Pokemon in action! Hit me up in the PU or ADV Discord if you want to discuss this post or the tier as a whole, or to play some matches :D

 

[BP]

I built 5 teams for ADV. These are untested and are just theory builds with the new drops. Feel free to steal and test for yourselves. I know very little to none about the current meta and everything I do know is based off my building session from looking at the VR.


Lead Abra FWG


CB Arbok Balance


Sun


Tropius Balance


Band King Balance

 

[Akir]

I've been wanting to make a VR post for BW PU for a while now, and now here is some of it. As for my general opinion of the tier, I think it is in a generally strong position. There are no immediate bans that I would want to do (except maybe BP but that's a whole different thing) and I think the overall power level of the format is where I'm happy with. So with that, let's chat:

Rises:


Swanna A- to A+

People trying to find a replacement for Simipour seem to have mostly landed on Swanna. Swanna does have the slightly lower SpAtk and isn't the fastest scarfer in town but the secondary typing does a lot for Swanna. No Spikes damage, resistance to Mach Punch, and a secondary STAB to hit Grass that would otherwise wall are all great things that puts Swanna as probably the best scarfer in the format and a worthy heir to Simipour. However, Swanna's lack of setup makes it manageable so that counters like Audino and Klang are reliable. Even so, Swanna's success in recent tournament usage has carved out a premiere slot in BW PU and rightfully should take a spot among the elite.


Tentacool A to A+

This is a frankly overdue at this point. Tentacool started seeing usage during Simipour meta, became a concrete part of the meta with Rain, and now has survived tests of time to come out as the best hazard control in the tier over Natu. The Water typing has turned out to be an important part of the tier's defensive backbone with the rise of so many Water and now Fire attackers, with the ability to Rapid Spin in a tier starved of the option as an incredible bonus. The Toxic Spikes would also be a nice plus but the irony of the situation is that Tentacool's success is keeping its own Toxic Spikes at bay. Tentacool is just a solid mon thats better than some mons already in A+.


Stunfisk A- to A+

In my honest opinion, Stunfisk is the best rocker in the format. Period. Stunfisk's ability to check key threats like Monferno and Zebstrika and even Dodrio in a single slot alone would make Stunfisk valuable, but a resistance to Rocks and plenty of support options like Discharge/Yawn/Pain Split makes Stunfisk the best pure support mon in the format. Even Static makes Monferno's U-Turn go from a safe bet to a risky ask. Now if only Stunfisk got recovery outside of Pain Split or BW Rest...but then it would be NU wouldn't it...


Arbok A- to A

The rise of bulkier builds in the format has been a long time coming, and Arbok rises to the challenge of countering them surprisingly well. Coil + Gunk Shot hits like a truck and Arbok has enough coverage in EQ and Aqua Tail to hit almost everything it wants to. Add in Shed Skin and Arbok can prove to be difficult for bulky teams to handle well. However, Arbok is not a one-trick snake. Access to Intimidate and Sucker Punch makes Arbok handy against offensive teams as well. Now that the tier has slowed down, Arbok's tool set is now finally in demand.


Jumpluff A- to A

Similar story as Arbok. A falling power level and a rise in bulkier teams means that Jumpluff's fast Encore is handier and handier. A fast U-Turn is also never bad, and a resistance to Mach Punch means that Jumpluff can even work as a Monferno check. Acro/U-turn/Synth/Encore is a dream set for voltturn teams, but the general lack of power outside of a SD or two really keeps Jumpluff down.


Audino and Bronzor B+ to A-

Grouping these two together because they are rising from the same rank to the same rank for the same reasons. Simply put, the general drop in power means that these two walls have gone from decently reliable to very reliable. Bronzor has a ton of excellent resists and Rocks, so it is a good fit for most teams despite its extreme flaws and being a shitty mon. Audino is similar: although it prefers bulkier teams, Audino is a solid part of any defensive core it finds itself in as it proves to be infuriating to kill. 2 good defensive mons in a format with stronger defensive teams. Simple.


Marowak B to A-

Going back to the continuing trend of "bulkier teams are becoming more of a thing", Marowak is a nuke in a mon. It's...Marowak. You know what a Marowak does.


Ursaring B to B+

Ursaring enjoyed some early success in PUPL that trickled out as the season went on. The SpDef set was interesting and while it didn't enjoy popularity all the way through the season, it is still a new Ursaring set that is worth a small bump in viability.


Mr. Mime B- to B+

This tier has many many Psychics, and people have started experimenting with them. Mime is a continuation of this. While Scarf sets ended up a bit on the mediocre side, NP and Specs sets proved to be valuable because Mime has Focus Blast and that is a rarity and extremely effective due to Scraggy and Klang being common answers. Still below other Psychics but the niche is there.


Drops:


Beheeyem S to A+

Even though Beheeyem is one of the most impactful mons in the format, the tournament success simply is no longer there. I don't expect this to be permanent but I think the reason for the drop in viability is that people finally have the room to properly counter this thing.


Klang A+ to A

As the metagame is able to afford more cohesive builds, Klang sticks out as a notably passive pivot. I will not say Klang is bad; Klang is simply not as useful as it was. The spike in usage of Zebstrika is also an issue, but then again the rise of Swanna is a boon for Klang. Overall, people are looking for other pivots that don't rely on Toxic for damage.


Simisage A- to B

Again, the usage just isn't there. At all. Simisage has a definitive niche as an excellent answer to flimsy defensive cores, but a lot of the current defensive backbones (particularly ones with Bronzor) just don't mind Simisage. A rather damning review of a wallbreaker.


Victreebel B+ to B

Sun went 0-2 in PUPL. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about Sun: it is notably worse than I projected. Victreebel still stands as the primary engine for Sun and bears the burden of Sun's failings. Victreebel can't really find much of a niche outside of Sun anyway. Granted, there is definitely room for some experimentation but until that happens I vote a drop.


To wrap up this post, here is a sketchy team dump for you all:

https://pokepast.es/24c6a4f9770c1bbb
https://pokepast.es/00fc6cf8574d039c
https://pokepast.es/5c02c3ff50f305e3
https://pokepast.es/caf17a77481a8076
https://pokepast.es/582151a6667729b9

BW PU is good now btw

 

[LpZ]

THE ZU-PU CROSSOVER EXPERIENCE
​

Following up Akir's post on BW PU I'd like to share a project I've been doing for the past month. This project consists on simply building with mons on the BW ZU VR and take a better look on what it could offer in the tier above just so we can test them in practice. Before anything I want to make it clear that a mon ranked high on the ZU VR does not mean it is gonna do better than a lower ranked mon on ZU. I've been doing this to gather more information about what we could call "unexplored" mons since the tier does not get played too often. I'd like to give a s/o to everyone that could test those mons with me even if only once: Jade Nalorium Fakee Mendeez avarice Tack Raichy CDW Enrique Chloe zeeLitium (prob everyone listed, if I forgot anyone feel free to call me out). These are also my opinions and experiences with test games so if you have anything to add or ask feel free to do it.

Set(s) tested

Solrock @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun

Solrock @ Flying Gem
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics

Solrock has really interesting and unique assets, it can function as a rocker that not only threatens Natu and Tentacool with 2HKOs but also has Levitate, recovery and Wisp, which means few stuff enjoys switching in on it as it can cripple a good portion of the tier most importantly including Torterra, which makes it a good partner to mons that enjoy the turtle burned, I didn't test it a whole lot but the few times it was okay, it could get the job done setting rocks up and then burn something before dying. Unfortunately the typing does not help at all even tho it has Levitate, it packs a lot of weaknesses and it can be difficult to keep it around for too long because of that.
Talking about other its other sets, I've tested with Rock Polish and unfortunately it is simply not good, it is just not strong and relies a lot on chip on the opponent's whole team cuz it fails to OHKO or 2HKO too many things, for example it can't 2HKO Stunfisk with Earthquake, it can't 2HKO standard Beheeyem with anything and it doesn't even OHKO PhysDef Torterra with gem-boosted Acrobatics even with Rocks and 3 layers of Spikes up. On top of that it is much easier to take it down as it is very noticeable how frailer it becomes when uninvested in bulk and because of how often it misses out on KOs picking it off is not hard for most teams in most situations, and even at +2 speed it gets outsped by Scarf Swanna which has been popping off lately.
On the extremely rare Trick Room type of build it might be the go-to rocker as it offers all of Rocks, Trick Room and Explosion.
This mon is def worth of more exploration as his defensive set looks to have a number of interesting tools and it is a very unique rocker also capable of crippling stuff.

Set(s) tested

Persian @ Heat Rock
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Return

Persian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Bite
- U-turn
- Switcheroo

Persian is already listed on the PU VR as a D rank mon but I still wanted to explore it more (as I did with other ranked mons too). In my opinion its offensive set with Fake Out STAB U-turn is simply outclassed by Purugly as Purugly not only has more Attack than it but also another anti-offense tool in Sucker Punch and more defensive utility with Thick Fat, Persian would have to run either Life Orb or Double-Edge to surpass its damage output which means having to wear itself down quickly, also the only thing Persian's speed is put into perspective compared to Purugly is that it is faster than Swoobat which does not matter at all as Purugly can simply Sucker Punch the bat which gets OHKOd after rocks . With this said I've tested ways Persian could perform differently and these 2 sets could make up for it.
First one being an already known set and nothing too crazy, a wether setter set as it is one of the fastest mons in the tier while packing Taunt and U-turn, pretty automatic to think of Persian like that so this is no surprise and this is prob the set that puts it on D rank afterall. But the other set no one had used before was Scarf and honestly it surprised me for the good. The cherry on the cake for this set is Switcheroo as it serves as a safety net vs basically ANY setup sweeper from Huntail to RP Torterra to Scraggy, and it can annoy its switch-ins like Stunfisk, Bronzor, Klang and Mawile. It personally felt like an amazing partner to Swoobat as Klang or Bronzor are much easier to break through when tricked and Swoobat, if it is willing to break a team it gotta do quick as rocks just means it will be much harder if it doesn't start threatening immediately. It also outspeeds every viable Scarfer even with Adamant so you can taste that little extra power.
Although the weather set is no surprise to anyone slightly experienced in the tier, the scarf set got very satisfying results for both its sheer utility and unpredictability, I highly recommend exploring this set more in the future.

Set(s) tested

Emolga @ Flying Gem
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- U-turn
- Roost
- Encore

Emolga @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

I won't talk too much about this one as I already consider it an established albeit gimmicky mon. I tried hard to figure out another way to make this thing work and honestly the standard (first) set is the only way it will do anything. Its whole viability is reliant on Encore to be quite fair and that is why the latter team just stinks as hell. SubTox is a thing in ZU so I wanted to see how it fares in PU and the result is that EVERYTHING SITS ON IT. The former set is the niche that makes it an interesting option and the latter straight up sucks, as simple as that.

Set(s) tested

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic / Thunder Wave / Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-Boiled

Clefairy was brought up by Lily in the first edition of BWPL as she thought Clefairy had a legitimate niche in the tier, so after a whole year I wanted to try it out. This is known as a absurdly annoying mon to kill in ZU so I had high expectations for it even tho the single best mon in the tier scares it out.
Rocks Clefairy is honestly pretty decent as it has a lot of opportunities to set them up and its bulk alongside Soft-Boiled made it a really annoying mon to take down even in PU, Natu can unfortunately negate works from it tho but theoretically (I haven`t come to this situation in tests) you can stall Roosts out by spamming SToss as it does 35 to Natu. Another unfortunate thing is the 4MSS it has as a defensive utility mon as it would like to have all of TWave, Knock, Toxic and even Encore. I still got some pretty solid results with it in test games for how annoying it is to kill it. This might also work without Rocks but it gets way harder to fit into a team.
CM Clefairy on the other hand is just not good. Too weak, notably not even being able to 3HKO Klang at +6, Scraggy comes in all day on it, it is easy to PP Stall it, easy to force it out before it manages to do anything back, the set is simply not it even if it clicks CM when the opponent is not waiting for it and they put themselves in a bad pos vs it.
Rocks Clefairy is in my eyes def a legit mon in the tier that also needs more exploration and more established purpose in the tier as hard as it is to take it down.

Set(s) tested

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe or
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe (lets you taunt Dwebble)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Whirlwind
- Taunt

Grumpig is no new face in PU either (also C rank) but I wanted to try it out as a bulky shuffler as it had very interesting tools in Taunt, Whirlwind and a good offensive movepool. This mon basically resists both Monferno STABs thanks to Thick Fat and offers overall good bulk while being quite annoying to switch into. The lack of reliable recovery on top of getting annoyed and potentially overwhelmed by Monferno spamming U-turn hurts its viability quite a lot tho.
This set in question means you are dealing with the increasingly popular HP Fighting Beheeyem while checking Monferno AND being able to shut down some of the conventional passive Psychic checks of the tier like Bronzor and Klang with Taunt. The set is pretty decent at what it has to offer and in test games it didn`t do anything too crazy mainly cuz of how often I had to switch it into Monferno U-turns but on paper it is still pretty ok. This is prob the set that lets it carve a niche for itself in the tier anyways so nothing special here.

Set(s) tested

Ivysaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

This thing's way to differ itself from Vileplume comes from Knock Off entirely. It can be pretty annoying to take it down but to be completely honest with you the Knock factor isn't that big for it as altho Plume's bulk is slightly worse than Ivysaur Plume can at least make up for it for being able to carry lefties, also Plume has an actual useful ability and a considerably wider list of options.
Just run Plume.

Set(s) tested

Lairon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Toxic
- Earthquake / Superpower

This thing is unimpressive. I didn't have high expectations for it since the beginning cuz of how flawed it looked on paper already and I was right, this thing is not good. At least it is another one of the rockers capable of upping on Natu and Tentacool but the drawbacks surpasses the pros. Head Smash hits hard and all but for that you have Rampardos, not only that but its bulk does too little for it when it has this bad of a defensive typing, very common physical hitters like Monferno and Torterra fists on it while special breakers tend to break through it easily cuz of its real pitiful special bulk even when boosted by Eviolite. This thing struggles to find opportunities to set rocks up and when/if it manages to it can barely do anything else in a game. It is also not that hard to switch into this mon as rock resists are not hard to come by and its coverage options dont hit as hard, even stuff like Klang can avoid a 2HKO from EQ and Lairon sometimes has to commit for Superpower to not like Scraggy shit on it making Lairon even less effective at breaking steels for the move`s inconsistency.

Set(s) tested

Meganium @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Tail
- Aromatherapy
- Synthesis

I didn't go as deep on this one since it is already very imaginable what it can accomplish, and the better way in my eyes to make it work is as a cleric spdef wall that can spam DTail. I didn't put too much thought into other potential sets like SD but I can already say it wouldn't be THAT potent since we have very good answers to it and it has high chances of just not doing anything in the game. I didn't test this mon a whole lot but as suggested by its C rank status it is just pretty solid, it can hold Stall teams together decently and while its typing can be useful and it can stack Rocks, Spikes or even TSpikes damage with DTail it can also open up a slot for Audino. All in all decent mon in stall that I don't think can be explored more than that.

Set(s) tested

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Toxic

Tbh this mon didn't do anything special in test games and imo that is because of lack of identity. It is funny to see such an unique concept of pivot in PU struggling to find purpose in the tier because of its lackluster stats, it is slow for what it wants to do, it is not that bulky even with 252 HP and Eviolite since it is still 2HKOd my many moves and it doesn't hit hard enough for a mon with a STAB 130BP move. Like at least it checks Scraggy kinda well except you just die afterwards if you miss HJK so even at that it is not that consistent. I strongly believe this is the only possible moveset for it in this tier if it wants to TRY to do something, it can cripple structures with Knock and Toxic at least to compensate the movepool and the lack of power. The mon looked interesting at first but after few tests and some additional thoughts it ended up not getting anywhere, I do not recommend.

Set(s) tested

Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Pursuit

This is in my opinion THE most fun mon to use in the entire tier and it is honestly not bad. The tier is not fat enough for it to just not get some good progress going and the fact that the tier has 1 viable and 2 semi-viable and very rare ghosts in the helps it a lot so mindgames are mostly defined by STAB x Eq. What makes me think it is not bad is not even the sheer power but also the fact it gets Pursuit and how easy it is to trap stuff as this mon forces so many switches. What sucks tho is the competition it has with Stoutland, although it hits harder and gets a more consistent tool to break steels, which doesn't end up being more consistent as it needs to waste another turn, Stoutland offers some more defensive value in Intimidate (i don't really like Scrappy Stoutland), the fact it has to worry about getting plays right a bit less than Slaking and how Slaking can allow a free setup or simply a free turn to something you don't want to allow.
All being said I def recommend this mon for how fun it is to use and for its usefulness on most matchups mainly when pursuitting something gets easy.

Set(s) tested

Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

This one was a VERY interesting one, it has very unique assets as a spinner compared to Tentacool like reliable recovery, Natural Cure and a lack of Psychic and Ground weakness while Tentacool offers not only spin but the amazing TSpikes that can shred teams quite often while also offering the capability of instantly removing the same TSpikes from opposing Tenta on top of Knock Off.
I was shocked to realize that Staryu did not disappoint me at all in test games, sure it invites Torterra quite often while it is tasked to spin but its mu vs Stunfisk can be better than Tentas one due to Recover. Altho considerably less specially bulky than Tenta it can eat hits surprisingly well, this spread in question lets it avoid the 2HKO from Stunfisks Discharge and the OHKO from LO Zebstrika while giving great odds at avoiding the 2HKO from Beheeyem and Swoobat. This mon should DEFINITIVELY be more explored to see if its worth a team slot because from MY experience it went way above my expectations.

Set(s) tested

Wormadam-Trash (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Protect

This one has a really good defensive typing but it is held back by its inability to create progress after setting rocks up, and speaking about rocks it can't keep rocks up vs Tenta or Natu. It is a really damn good Beheeyem check tho but it invites so many stuff for free that its presence on a team hurts more than helps. I wouldn't recommend this one, it can't significantly do anything in the tier. Btw I thought it had Levitate before fsr.

Set(s) tested

Bibarel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Scald
- Thunderbolt / Super Fang

Bibarel @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Quick Attack
- Rest

Ah a fan favorite and the OG HM slave makes an appearance here too, and it actually seems like a really solid lead also capable of anti-lead stuff like Dwebble and Rampardos with perfection. It stands out mainly via its access to Taunt and its capability of beating Tentacool as a lead which is not common amongst suicide leads. Thunderbolt straight up 2HKOs Natu while Super Fang gives it a safer way at dealing with Tentacool as early Scald burns from Tentacool can be annoying and Tbolt doesn`t do much to it, while giving it more utility after setting rocks up. It had very satisfying results and it should get more attention in the future.
As for the Curse set, UNFORTUNATELY it is bad, it has a hard time setting up just to force itself to be too slow and it is not bulky to get easy opportunities to do that while its dual STAB is quite flawed offensively, maybe if it got Swords Dance it would have a chance as a legit setup sweeper but with Curse things are just too difficult for it to succeed.

Set(s) tested

Exploud @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Surf
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast

I was already surprised it wasn`t even ranked in D cuz it saw some usage in the past and it can def work in the tier, it is the best option of a special normal wallbreaker you can get so it doesn`t really compare to stuff like Stoutland or Ursaring, it hits really hard with LO and it has a great special movepool, but its speed is really annoying for itself. I don`t think there is too much for me to say it just does what it is supposed to do and it does well, speed hurts its viability but its really hard to switch into as it has moves for everything.

Set(s) tested

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb

This mon is bad. As a mon that can't take a single hit from anything it should act as a functional glass cannon to compensate the negative defensive prowess, but it is not good offensively either, not that strong for the tier and mainly bad offensive typing.

Set(s) tested

Glaceon @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass

This mon is alright, a stronger but slower Vanilluxe but what makes it worth the exploration is Baton Pass. The fact that you can keep momentum instead of just blindly click Ice Beam or coverage vs a fat Steel means you have freedom to overwhelm a structure with more ease with both hazards and from pivotting to other threats from your team. There`s nothing special to say about it since we have some idea how special ice wallbreakers kinda work with the past Vanilluxe usage. It is another type of mon that can hard on a rocker coming out on your Tenta`s spin which is really nice. Wish is straight up bad you`ve seen here before. Give it a try with a dedicated build and you can collect what it got to offer for sure.

Set(s) tested

Graveler @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch

Another old face in the tier, I decided I should try it cuz it hasn't been nearly as popular as it was in 2020 and I've never used it before. I mean there's not a lot to say, it is absurdly fat in the physical side and it hits considerably hard too while also being a ground that resists fire which can make Zebstrika mindgames harder for the opponent, it can be a good fit for offense still but yea as always it hates facing Torterra. Also the fact that it is 4x weak to Water makes its mu vs Tentacool not ideal as it can't do like the other ground setters to set Rocks back up. It is still an alright rocker for offense basically.

Set(s) tested

Heatmor @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Thunder Punch
- Sucker Punch

This mon gets some cool stuff but it is very unfortunate. First of all it has the strongest Fire Blast in the whole tier capable of even 2HKOing Eviolite Monferno and Stunfisk with LO, it meats its grace by running a mixed set as it can have the pleasure by smacking waters with Thunder Punch, being superior than HP Electric even with the lack of Atk investment as it is enough to do absurd amounts to Tentacool while OHKOing Swanna easily and chunking Frillish really well, while Superpower deals with Scraggy and Zweilous on top of Sucker Punch to pick off weakened faster stuff (it also OHKOs Swoobat after rocks). The thing is, the tier does not lack Fire wallbreakers, you have the best mon in the tier Monferno, Simisear, Rapidash and even a nicher one in Lampent, and they all do good at breaking, ones better than others. Monferno also has priority while having multiple viable sets which can also run TPunch as Heatmor with STAB Fighting and it does not have to worry about rocks weakness, and it is not desperately slow like Heatmor, Simisear doesn't even need priority as it is quite fast for the tier and it hits hard too with Specs Fire Blast, it lacks on having a tool to smack Tentacool for sure but still has Focus Blast or even Superpower if you wanna go nuts on those Scraggies. Rapidash is also really fast for the tier and, while being a flawed wallbreaker, it packs some really interesting staff like Wild Charge for the same waters Heatmor can hit while not being desperate about lacking a good Fighting coverage as it is a strong physical wallbreaker and does a lot to Scraggy with Blitz (you can also run Megahorn for Zweilous ) and on top of all that it can run recovery and oh, it is also not desperately slow. Lampent has a LOT of interesting stuff to do that I will talk later about. I don't think you can justify using it unfortunately even tho it def has its uniqueness.

Set(s) tested

Kingler @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty / Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Crabhammer
- Superpower
- Ice Beam / Return

Kingler @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Double-Edge
- X-Scissor
- Superpower

This mon is SO strong I had to know how the taste of clicking Banded Crabhammer looked like. I really had a good time with this mon on offensive builds, only Frillish really stops it tight cuz anything else gets blown away, ofc it has flaws like the super low special bulk making it harder to come in on some stuff and easier to get revenge killed and, altho not terrible, the speed being lower than the 80s hurts it a little bit. It does like 45 to Bronzor with Crabhammer, easily 2HKOs Beheeyem, Klang, Jumpluff, Mawile, Audino with Crabhammer, Torterra needs to be full HP full Def to withstand Crabhammers at full (X-Scissor 2HKOs it), Double-Edge 2HKOs even Vileplume while Superpower demolish Scraggy and Zweilous. I might try this mon with CB more times cuz it is really fun to use and altho not an ideal speed tier it has enough to justify a slot. As for the Agility set it also felt really good and it fits well on Spikes offense and Ice Beam has high odds at picking off Torterra after rocks + a layer of spikes but you can go for the safer route of Return on last slot for general coverage. It is also very fortunate to have enough speed with Adamant to outspeed Scarf Swanna. I really liked experimenting with this mon and it should get more attention, maybe even other sets like SD or Scarf could work, I can see it getting through the B ranks unironically.

Set(s) tested

Lampent @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Lampent @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Trick

Another old face in the tier since the Throh times, this thing is still ok, it is the only true Monferno counter excluding the fact that it hates rocks and it is a VERY unique pokemon with very unique traits and a very unique typing, this mon didn't end up doing anything crazy on tests but I can acknowledge how annoying these 2 sets can be, with proper pilotting this mon can annihilate stall with the first set while just being generally very annoying to switch into, considering you hit your wisps, Zweilous is very annoyed by Wisp + Taunt but Scraggy unfortunately can get out of the situation due to Shed Skin, being Ghost is also very valuable not only for Monferno but also to deal with the psychic boosters.
Specs is very strong but like Heatmor's case you have Simisear that can do it better while not having to worry about speed issues, the really neat thing with Specs Lampent tho is Trick, it screws with any potential switch-in like Scraggy (it still takes a lot from Flame and Overheat), Zweilous, Tentacool and Audino, and yea the Monferno-checking thing too.

Set(s) tested

Luxray @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 108 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

Luxray @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Facade
- Ice Fang
- Superpower

This mon was one of the most satisfying results I got in test games but I believe its due to the fact that no one saw the first set coming at all, I believe that with intimidate thiss bulky Luxray set is totally viable, it is decently annoying to switch into and it can Toxic a lot of stuff, while pivotting out of mons it can`t click Toxic like Klang, which means this mon can keep momentum while also being able to take hits, it can simply stay in on Torterra for example to click whatever it wants, even without -1 Torterra can`t kill Luxray at full as you proceed to HP Ice it and keep it low, give this set a try before it gets known, you won`t regret.
As for the Guts set, it is really solid and as far Guts wallbreakers go it is the best one, still not a perfect wallbreaker by any means since it is kinda slow and it is quite outplayable due to its moves not being too spamable while you get worn down by your own poison, but it hits really hard and can def help offensive teams with some nice early progress going on. I recommend this set with Spikes.
Overall a very solid mon and honestly slept on, I`ve seen one or two appearences of it but nothing that tickles the tier`s influence, give it a try with both sets and you can thank me later.

This post is already really big and I still got some stuff to test so this is only gonna be part 1, part 2 coming out soon.

tl:dr thoughts:
- Defensive looks interesting, worth exploring more
- Best secondary weather setter + scarf felt really nice, worth a try
- Everyone knows what it does + SubTox is horrible
- Really solid mon, CM sucks tho + worth exploration and even a VR rank
- Decent mon that can be annoying sometimes as it shuts down the convenient psychic checks
- Only has knock going for it over Plume. Just run Plume
- Underwhelming and has a lot of flaws
- Great on stall with DTail and Aroma
- Lacks stats and purpose
- THE most fun mon to use imo, lowkey a threat and should be taken more seriously, great pursuiter, def give it a try
- Surprisingly decent + fatter than it looks + has a lot of differences with Tentacool + worth giving it a shot
- Big sitting duck, it doesn't do anything after setting up rocks and lets a bunch of stuff in for free
- Really solid lead as it also anti-leads, very unimpressive sweeper with Simple Curse
- Should def get ranked + solid special wallbreaker, speed hurts tho + hard to fit but def worth a try
- Outright bad
- Solid wallbreaker with Baton Pass to differ it out from Vanilluxe + speed and rocks weakness are kinda hard to manage tho
- Decent rocker for offensive builds but still a very mid rocker overall and it dislikes a bunch of stuff in the tier
- It has interesting tools but it is just not worth a slot when compared to other Fire wallbreakers
- GOOD mon + should honestly be ranked higher + has the potential to be a meta pick in the future
- Very unique mon with a lot of cool tools to mess around like Trick, Taunt, Wisp and Pain Split, justifying a slot for it is hard tho
- Really solid mon, intimidate special set can be annoying to play around as it can keep momentum, it is the best Guts user too but still a bit flawed as a wallbreaker

 

[SergioRules]

Art by HotFuzzBall​

The ADV site has apparently stopped working for a lot of people so this will be the new place for all of your ADV PU needs.

Viability List

Pokemon are not ordered within their ranks, but rather grouped with general performance levels. List does not include every legal Pokemon.

Very High Tier: Pokemon that define the metagame and consistently perform well


High Tier: Pokemon that work well in most situations but may have some drawbacks


Mid Tier: Pokemon that are usable and while harder to fit on most teams are still overall positive


Low Tier: Pokemon that either have flaws or are outclassed and may need significant support


Niche Tier: Pokemon that have small niches but have numerous flaws and are generally hard to fit on teams

Sample Teams

Big Stall by MrSoup [importable]

CB Furret+DD Dragonair by MrSoup [importable]

Special Dragonair+CB Crab by MrSoup [importable]

SD Tropius Flying Spam by TONE [importable]

Sub SD Kingler by Eve [importable]

ARCHIVE
Arbok Balance by BP [importable]

Abra FWG by BP [importable]

Sun by BP [importable]

CB Kingler Balance [importable]

SpDef Noctowl Balance by TONE [importable]

Charmeleon Anti-Lead by SergioRules [importable]

SD Anorith Offense by Tack [importable]

Standard Offense [importable]

Charmeleon Offense by Akir [importable]

Banded Marshtomp Balance [importable]

SubSeed Grovyle Balance [importable]

Furret Spikes Balance [importable]

Role Compendium

Walls (reliable recovery):

(Wish)

Walls (no reliable recovery):

Clerics:

Common Leads:

Normal Checks:

Water Checks:

Ground Checks:

Fire Checks:

(Physical) Dragonair Checks:

Priority (Quick Attack):

Wallbreakers:

Spikes:

Rapid Spin:

Set Up Sweepers:
Swords Dance:

Calm Mind:

Agility:

Other (Curse, Dragon Dance, Belly Drum. Tail Glow):

Pinch Berry (Salac, Liechi, Petaya):

/

/
Weather Abusers:

/

Tour Banlist

/tour create Gen 3 NU, elimination
/tour name Gen 3 PU
/tour rules -bellossom, -cacturne, -chimecho, -dewgong, -flareon, -glalie, -golbat, -haunter, -hitmonchan, -huntail, -kecleon, -metang, -murkrow, -octillery, -pidgeot, -pikachu, -plusle, -pupitar, -raticate, -relicanth, -roselia, -sableye, -sudowoodo, -torkoal, -vigoroth, -whiscash, -crawdaunt, -diglett, -machoke, -pelipper, -venomoth, -wailord, -dunsparce, -piloswine

All Pokemon List

FEs / NEs
Aipom Arbok Ariados Beautifly Beedrill Butterfree Castform Corsola Delcatty Delibird Ditto Dustox Furret Farfetch'd Illumise Kingler Ledian Lickitung Luvdisc Magcargo Masquerain Mawile Mightyena Minun Noctowl Nosepass Parasect Seadra Seaking Seviper Shedinja Shuckle Spinda Sunflora Swalot Tangela Togetic Tropius Unown Volbeat Wigglytuff Yanma

NFEs
Bayleef Cascoon Charmeleon Clefairy Combusken Croconaw Dragonair Flaaffy Gloom Graveler Grovyle Ivysaur Jigglypuff Kakuna Kirlia Lairon Lombre Loudred Marill Marshtomp Metapod Nidorina Nidorino Nuzleaf Pidgeotto Poliwhirl Quilava Sealeo Shelgon Silcoon Skiploom Vibrava Wartortle Weepinbell

LC / First evolution stage
Abra Anorith Aron Azurill Bagon Baltoy Barboach Beldum Bellsprout Bulbasaur Cacnea Carvanha Caterpie Charmander Chikorita Chinchou Clamperl Cleffa Corphish Cubone Cyndaquil Doduo Dratini Drowze Duskull Eevee Ekans Electrike Elekid Exeggcute Feebas Gastly Geodude Goldeen Grimer Growlithe Gulpin Hoothoot Hoppip Horsea Houndour Igglybuff Kabuto Koffing Krabby Larvitar Ledyba Lileep Lotad Machop Magby Magikarp Magnemite Makuhita Mankey Mareep Meditite Meowth Mudkip Natu Nidoran-F Nidoran-M Nincada Numel Oddish Omanyte Onix Paras Phanpy Pichu Pidgey Pineco Poliwag Ponyta Poochyena Porygon Psyduck Ralts Rattata Remoraid Rhyhorn Sandshrew Seedot Seel Sentret Shellder Shroomish Shuppet Skitty Slakoth Slowpoke Slugma Smoochum Snorunt Snubbull Spearow Spheal Spinarak Spoink Squirtle Staryu Sunkern Surskit Swablu Swinub Taillow Teddiursa Tentacool Togepi Torchic Totodile Trapinch Treecko Tyrogue Venonat Voltorb Vulpix Wailmer Weedle Whismur Wingull Wooper Wurmple Zigzagoon Zubat

 

[CoralReaper707]

Damn, poor Wigglytuff fell off, didn't he?

 

[Eve]

Damn, poor Wigglytuff fell off, didn't he?

wigglytuff was never really ranked any higher (except in my own personal rankings)- it can still perform at a fine level in the tier after shifts, but it's largely outperformed by lickitung who does the same thing and more. given the low number of fighting-type moves you're likely to face in the tier right now i could imagine some defensive teams getting away with running both but i think you'd sooner run togetic in most cases.

also, i would like to remind everyone to take the above rankings with skepticism seeing as this meta is very untested overall. excited to see what comes from the tournament!

 

[Chloe]

hi! i've heard a fair few people say recently that "sm is a fun meta it just sucks to build for" so i've built several teams that people can use to alleviate this issue. i don't have the time to write detailed descriptions for each, given there's a fair few, but if you have any questions please feel free to ask on discord! hope you can find a team you like!

1. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Choice Band Golurk Balance

https://pokepast.es/8f5ff1db63d6722e

2. Grassium Z Swords Dance Victreebel + Gurdurr Balance

https://pokepast.es/1df2d67bc9b47c3a

3. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/393d9544d80c1cc4

4. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Choice Band Spam

https://pokepast.es/5e3866bf51c99fea

5. Grassium Z Simisear + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/409df974d9ff3b10

6. Fightinium Z Simisear + Lycanroc Webs HO

https://pokepast.es/02626dacedad3354

7. Waterium Z Omastar + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/7ca2b4e89e5d4cba

8. Waterium Z Endure Omastar Balance

https://pokepast.es/84eefb3b433f8ea1

9. Waterium Z Omastar Webs HO

https://pokepast.es/e6903444b9137bb1

10. Lycanium Z Lycanroc + Trapper Kangaskhan Balance

https://pokepast.es/ad2ee6d68831093e

11. Lycanium Z Lycanroc + Regirock Balance

https://pokepast.es/27af4093c89ca32f

12. Waterium Z Jellicent + Chople Berry Drampa Balance

https://pokepast.es/7af5e916f111eebe

13. Normalium Z-Celebrate Leafeon + Choice Specs Drampa

https://pokepast.es/660c9e92c911d360

14. Waterium Z Swanna + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/54f572c565c00e49

15. Icium Z Sandslash-Alola Hail Balance

https://pokepast.es/39cd4d9bfab26841

16. Icium Z Sandslash-Alola Hail Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/b59f78d4dbe28133

17. Icium Z Ludicolo Rain Offense

https://pokepast.es/dfe267d728c59323

18. Flyinium Z Dodrio Normal Spam Balance

https://pokepast.es/0b7f4697001dd839

19. Fightinium Z Kangaskhan Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/084fa0cd9db5c468

20. Darkinium Z Raticate-Alola + Grumpig Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/dbf1d8241fc1ea09

 

[CoralReaper707]

hi! i've heard a fair few people say recently that "sm is a fun meta it just sucks to build for" so i've built several teams that people can use to alleviate this issue. i don't have the time to write detailed descriptions for each, given there's a fair few, but if you have any questions please feel free to ask on discord! hope you can find a team you like!

1. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Choice Band Golurk Balance

https://pokepast.es/8f5ff1db63d6722e

2. Grassium Z Swords Dance Victreebel + Gurdurr Balance

https://pokepast.es/1df2d67bc9b47c3a

3. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/393d9544d80c1cc4

4. Grassium Z Special Victreebel + Choice Band Spam

https://pokepast.es/5e3866bf51c99fea

5. Grassium Z Simisear + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/409df974d9ff3b10

6. Fightinium Z Simisear + Lycanroc Webs HO

https://pokepast.es/02626dacedad3354

7. Waterium Z Omastar + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/7ca2b4e89e5d4cba

8. Waterium Z Endure Omastar Balance

https://pokepast.es/84eefb3b433f8ea1

9. Waterium Z Omastar Webs HO

https://pokepast.es/e6903444b9137bb1

10. Lycanium Z Lycanroc + Trapper Kangaskhan Balance

https://pokepast.es/ad2ee6d68831093e

11. Lycanium Z Lycanroc + Regirock Balance

https://pokepast.es/27af4093c89ca32f

12. Waterium Z Jellicent + Chople Berry Drampa Balance

https://pokepast.es/7af5e916f111eebe

13. Normalium Z-Celebrate Leafeon + Choice Specs Drampa

https://pokepast.es/660c9e92c911d360

14. Waterium Z Swanna + Stoutland Balance

https://pokepast.es/54f572c565c00e49

15. Icium Z Sandslash-Alola Hail Balance

https://pokepast.es/0d2a7626752a9389

16. Icium Z Sandslash-Alola Hail Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/b59f78d4dbe28133

17. Icium Z Ludicolo Rain Offense

https://pokepast.es/aa60914fa2bdf9c4

18. Flyinium Z Dodrio Normal Spam Balance

https://pokepast.es/0b7f4697001dd839

19. Fightinium Z Kangaskhan Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/084fa0cd9db5c468

20. Darkinium Z Raticate-Alola + Grumpig Spike Stack

https://pokepast.es/dbf1d8241fc1ea09

These are really cool samples, but I don't understand why Ludiocolo has a reduced HP IV in the rain sample if it doesn't even have life orb equipped. Also, the Abomasnow has no reason to be Naive if it's running no physical attacks. I know everyone makes mistakes, but I'm just trying to look out for mistakes in certain teams or movesets.

 

[Chloe]

These are really cool samples, but I don't understand why Ludiocolo has a reduced HP IV in the rain sample if it doesn't even have life orb equipped. Also, the Abomasnow has no reason to be Naive if it's running no physical attacks. I know everyone makes mistakes, but I'm just trying to look out for mistakes in certain teams or movesets.

ah thank you i didnt notice those, good catch. fixed now.

 

[CoralReaper707]

ah thank you i didnt notice those, good catch. fixed now.

No problem!

 

[SergioRules]

In case you haven't heard, ADV PU just finished up a pretty big TOURNAMENT for our playerbase. One of the main reasons for this tour was to get more data on our newest tier changes that happened back in May. I'd have to say this was a great success, and personally I thought it was a lot of fun. I wanted to compile the usage stats so we can see what trends there are in this current meta.

Usage Stats

ADV PU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Omanyte            |   67 |  44.08% |  52.99% |
| 1    | Minun              |   67 |  44.08% |  50.75% |
| 3    | Mawile             |   62 |  40.79% |  50.81% |
| 4    | Furret             |   54 |  35.53% |  47.22% |
| 5    | Dragonair          |   39 |  25.66% |  46.15% |
| 6    | Sealeo             |   36 |  23.68% |  41.67% |
| 7    | Togetic            |   32 |  21.05% |  57.81% |
| 8    | Abra               |   31 |  20.39% |  45.16% |
| 9    | Duskull            |   26 |  17.11% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Piloswine          |   24 |  15.79% |  66.67% |
| 10   | Houndour           |   24 |  15.79% |  45.83% |
| 12   | Ivysaur            |   23 |  15.13% |  52.17% |
| 12   | Trapinch           |   23 |  15.13% |  36.96% |
| 14   | Kingler            |   22 |  14.47% |  31.82% |
| 15   | Swalot             |   21 |  13.82% |  57.14% |
| 16   | Arbok              |   20 |  13.16% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Grovyle            |   18 |  11.84% |  55.56% |
| 18   | Gastly             |   17 |  11.18% |  44.12% |
| 19   | Tangela            |   15 |   9.87% |  60.00% |
| 19   | Lickitung          |   15 |   9.87% |  53.33% |
| 21   | Magcargo           |   14 |   9.21% |  53.57% |
| 21   | Doduo              |   14 |   9.21% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Wigglytuff         |   12 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Vibrava            |   12 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Wartortle          |   12 |   7.89% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Lairon             |   10 |   6.58% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Marshtomp          |   10 |   6.58% |  30.00% |
| 28   | Seadra             |    9 |   5.92% |  55.56% |
| 28   | Shuckle            |    9 |   5.92% |  38.89% |
| 28   | Tropius            |    9 |   5.92% |  33.33% |
| 28   | Beedrill           |    9 |   5.92% |  22.22% |
| 32   | Chinchou           |    8 |   5.26% |  75.00% |
| 32   | Yanma              |    8 |   5.26% |  37.50% |
| 32   | Charmeleon         |    8 |   5.26% |  37.50% |
| 35   | Combusken          |    7 |   4.61% |  28.57% |
| 35   | Shelgon            |    7 |   4.61% |  21.43% |
| 37   | Seviper            |    5 |   3.29% |  80.00% |
| 37   | Lombre             |    5 |   3.29% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Tentacool          |    5 |   3.29% |  40.00% |
| 40   | Snorunt            |    4 |   2.63% |  75.00% |
| 40   | Anorith            |    4 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 40   | Shedinja           |    4 |   2.63% |  25.00% |
| 43   | Ledian             |    3 |   1.97% |  66.67% |
| 43   | Mightyena          |    3 |   1.97% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Noctowl            |    3 |   1.97% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Drowzee            |    3 |   1.97% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Staryu             |    3 |   1.97% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Magby              |    3 |   1.97% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Volbeat            |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Quilava            |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Porygon            |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Flaaffy            |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 53   | Ariados            |    1 |   0.66% | 100.00% |
| 53   | Zigzagoon          |    1 |   0.66% | 100.00% |
| 53   | Delibird           |    1 |   0.66% | 100.00% |
| 53   | Voltorb            |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Bayleef            |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Ponyta             |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Clamperl           |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Graveler           |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Elekid             |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |

• Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSIREULTRASTAN.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TSR.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CHLOE.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from LILY.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MUSHAMU.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from IFOXGIRLS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from EVE.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 4 Pokemon from MULTIPOKEMON.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MZ.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSIREULTRASTAN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SERGIORULES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SERGIORULES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from BIGFATMANTIS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from DIANNIERATSON.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MZ.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SERGIORULES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CHLOE.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from LILY.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from LILY.
• Missing 5 Pokemon from ZOOEEEEEE.
• Missing 5 Pokemon from MULTIPOKEMON.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from CHLOE.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from BIGFATMANTIS.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from SEXYWOOPER.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from LADY WRITER .

Leads

ADV PU

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Minun                   |   28 |  18.42% |  55.36% |
| 1    | Omanyte                 |   28 |  18.42% |  51.79% |
| 3    | Furret                  |   22 |  14.47% |  31.82% |
| 4    | Grovyle                 |   12 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Abra                    |    9 |   5.92% |  61.11% |
| 6    | Kingler                 |    7 |   4.61% |  35.71% |
| 7    | Swalot                  |    5 |   3.29% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Marshtomp               |    5 |   3.29% |  20.00% |
| 9    | Piloswine               |    4 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Snorunt                 |    4 |   2.63% |  75.00% |
| 9    | Chinchou                |    4 |   2.63% |  75.00% |
| 9    | Tangela                 |    4 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Seadra                  |    3 |   1.97% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Ivysaur                 |    3 |   1.97% |  66.67% |
| 13   | Sealeo                  |    3 |   1.97% |  66.67% |
| 16   | Quilava                 |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Arbok                   |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Combusken               |    2 |   1.32% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Mawile                  |    2 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Voltorb                 |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Mightyena               |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Elekid                  |    1 |   0.66% |   0.00% |

Here are some of my initial thoughts from the games I played and the games I watched.

• is still one of the biggest threats out there. Out of the new drops, none of them are faster than Minun and several of them lose to it straight out of the gate. Omanyte slightly beat it in overall winrate but Minun's winrate as a lead was noticeably higher.
• Speaking of , Spikes still make it an ever-present force in the metagame, matching Minun's usage number as both a lead and in general. It is by far the best hazard setter and it shows.
• is one of the biggest outliers in this data. It is one of two leads with a 100% winrate as well as the highest usage Pokemon, tied for 10th place, with an over 60% winrate (next is Tangela which sits at 19th). We're keeping a close eye on this and trying to have more discussion on it.
• is the next new drop that might become a problem. The data doesn't show it as much as it does with Piloswine, but the coverage of this Pokemon is super hard to deal with in the builder and in games. It can almost always get 2 KOs or at least close to it thanks to its high power moves and Explosion.
• is a drop that most people thought would be overwhelming but was probably even a little bit of the opposite. SubSD sets struggle with coverage and mixed sets don't do nearly as much as they'd like to since Kingler's special power is so low.
• are all Pokemon I was very excited about. Unfortunately, Graveler severely underperformed, likely because of our plethora of Water- and Grass-types and Grass-type coverage. Shelgon I think was mostly used as a defensive Wish passer, but I'm curious to see some exploration into DD as it does have some coverage over Dragonair even though it's slower. Lastly, Lickitung seemed to do decently well, again, mostly used as a defensive Wish user, but I think both SD and Curse can be extremely threatening in the right situations.

Thanks to everyone who played and I hope you all had fun! I'm looking forward to another great year of ADV PU, filled with at least one ADV PU TOURNAMENT again!

 

[LpZ]

Post PUWC BW VR post (unordered):

Drops:

S to A+ - Don't get me wrong, this is still the best mon in the tier imo but I think the tier got to a point that Monferno can't really be far from the other A+ mons mainly due to 2 reasons, Stunfisk being everywhere which made playing with Monferno much more uncomfortable and the decrease in Scraggy usage which makes Monferno less relevant to have as a Scraggy check. CB is still a very good set that can do up to 45 to Stunfisk and if you are lucky enough which happened more often than not you don't get Static proc.

A+ to A - Tspikes is amazing but idt Tentacool should ever be considered A+ imo, although it is arguably the best spinner available it just doesn't spin consistently at all, it doesn't check that big of a number of threats and it was possible to see the tier adapting to Tspikes pretty decently this PUWC and it doesn't really appreciate Golduck's usage dropping and Swanna rising (as Scarf Brave Bird 2HKOs it and SubsRoost just gets to sub for free). A seems to be the perfect rank for it to be honest.

A+ to A - I thought I was getting insane for thinking it should drop pre-PUWC but as time went on I could see why this thing dropped considerably, basically Swanna reshaped the definitions of special sponges in the tier, unless you run something like Scraggy + Klang which is alright you are pretty much always in danger vs Swanna if you are relying on Scraggy to take those special hits. It is still a threat that checks can't even be sure to take it out due to multiple factors and it still is a mon that always has to be accounted for when building but its defensive profile got worse.

A to A- - This pokemon is a really good piece for offensive teams as it is a Tspikes absorber but I just don't see this mon be as threatening as other mons in the A tier, also building with Arbok even on offense is kinda hard and it also doesn't appreciate Bronzor usage getting slightly higher.

A to A- - This pokemon did not do too hot in PUWC and it overall doesn't appreciate the current environment with Stunfisk + Steel being everywhere and its just been taking less into consideration than something like Swanna for the flying-type slot.

A to A- - This one I'm still unsure but it def got a bit worse for me comparing to its performance in last tournaments, offensive sets don't like the uptick in Bronzor usage although it likes Torterra being much lower in usage, the defensive set however, even though it has unique traits like access to Roar and fire resistance and water and grass neutrality in a rocks setter, does not appreciate the eyes on Stunfisk cuz of the opportunity cost, since Stunfisk not only is overall bulkier but it can also run Lefties while not being 4x Ice-weak (relevant against Zebra) and having a very useful flying resist on top of Static to punish stuff clicking recklessly on it. I'm not 100% sold on this drop but currently I'm leaning towards it.

A to A- - Really hates the drop in Scraggy's relevance/usage and it doesn't like Stunfisk being the most used rocker rn too. Doesn't seem too appealing currently.

A to A- - STUNFISK and Bronzor (and even Vileplume at some extent).

A to B+ - The defensive set has a considerable opportunity cost for not running Bronzor which is ground immune and Fighting neutral and it is a Flying resist that gets destroyed by Swanna even tho it still got Intimidate which is great and Baton Pass while offensive sets are still the best way to go with it but still really dislikes Stunfisk and Bronzor.

A to B+ - I just find Dwebble to be a better lead while other Rampardos sets are honestly really hard to pull off cuz of that painfully low Speed for such mon, which btw Marowak kinda outclasses it as a slow physical wallbreaker cuz of the better typing and even higher Atk with the Club.

A- to B+ - Stunfisk and guess what, Bronzor. But it also doesn't like the number of priority spam teams increasing a little bit even tho it needs the +2 to not be easily revengekilled.

B+ to B - Owned by Stunfisk (the most used rocker).

B+ to B - Its not like 100% owned by Stunfisk as it can at least lure it in and click Wisp or Toxic but you are not running Monferno and it still wants to do damage instead of just statusing Stunfisk which makes its presence less impactful in my eyes. It was also nowhere to be found in PUWC.

B+ to B - Stoutland is officially the CEO of normal wallbreaker, the Quick Feet was just always hard to pull off cuz of all the residual taken but at least with Stoutland not being as popular in the latest tournaments it was being taken into consideration more often cuz of the speed and all but Stoutland just took over now. BU RestTalk set is its best set rn imo but it has the always glaring problem of having to run Rest.

B+ to B- - I just think it is bad. Rain is not good with 5 turns and that SubTox set that is on that old ass sample is just not good at all imo.

B+ to B- - The rocks weakness paired with its underwhelming coverage options leaves it with a very inconsistent wallbreaker status while the tier is not lacking too much in Ice resists as of lately. Also no one is using it anymore.

B to B- - Still a solid pick on stall but rocks is just waaaay too hard to get rid of in this tier for it to do anything other than click Roost into being forced to switch out. Modern stall builds also don't tend to run it and they are not losing much by doing that.

B to B- - I've been feeling this for a good while now, this mon is simply not that good. The Torterra problem it used to have is a bit less relevant now since Stunfisk took over as the most used rocker but CB still has a very awkward speed tier to work with being outsped by the common base 80s in the tier and being generally super frail which limits its opportunities quite a lot + if Torterra is the opposing rocker Krok is likely not breaking much outside of maybe getting a key pursuit on Beheeyem/Duosion which is prob the most valuable thing this mon can do hence why I think this is the best set for it. Scarf hits like a wet noodle and Swoobat is not common enough for it to have an excuse rn, even Beehe and Duosion can stay in and click Recover if its not CB to scout what it wanna do, and rocks set just means that you are not using Stunfisk, Torterra or Gabite as your ground rocker, and even with Eviolite this mon is frail.

B to B- - It absolutely hates the rise of Stunfisk as it could at least do some Torterra dirty with Ice Punch stuff but it is still an ok bulky attacker that can absorb Tspikes, I just don't think he should be alongside the other B rank mons.

B- to C+ - Torterra down, Scraggy down, Stunfisk up, Emolga sad.

B- to C+ - I just think Leafeon doesn't belong on B- with the other mons I ranked there, it has potential and good stats but it just doesn't offer the same value as something like Maractus, Vileplume or Simisage would offer.

B- to C+ - Appreciates the slight rise of CB Monferno but hates Torterra and Scraggy being lower in usage, it is also annoyed somehow by Stunfisk and Pelipper just took over with its much superior offensive profile.

B- to C+ - He can't cook shit outside of weather which is on its lowest point rn.

Rises:

A to A+ - Dog is back and it is just very good right now at breaking, while it does not like getting paralyzed too much it def accepts the trade with opposing Stunfisk trying to fish so its teammates like Monferno can go big which is very useful, Stoutland can also enjoy turns to help breaking through stuff like Bronzor which is honestly impressive cuz Bronzor is supposed to be its sturdiest check. Scarf sets are also really cool imo as it still hits hard enough while having the surprise factor on hand (not a surprise anymore ig LOL) as shown in Shuckleking vs roxie on PUPL and me vs TJ on PUWC Finals. Amazing mon rn.

B+ to A- - Its solid defensive assets paired with the ability to absorb Tspikes is just so useful right now while it has a wide range of tools to use, Aromatherapy is very useful right now to support Rest users like Klang or Bronzor while also letting your Monferno click on Stunfisk with less punity, spreading Sludge Bomb poison is always good, Stun Spore is also useful and can catch stuff pretty nicely, Worry Seed is a very underrated thing too as it deals with Scraggy and other Rest users like Zweilous and Klang and with a bit of luck you 1v1 Bronzor too. SD sets are still decent but with Scraggy being less present this set is not as relevant as it used to be imo.

B to A- - This mon just hits so hard with Specs while keeping a great speed tier and it somehow abuses the fact many teams use Stunfisk as a sort of Fire check, I'm not too big of a fan of NP tho. It also got some decent success in PUPL iirc.

B to B+ - I just don't think it should be in B ever, it is a hard mon to use for sure but the reward is worth enough to not be in the same tier where Articuno was.

B to B+ - Actually quite difficult to stop as it can be either Special or Physical both having different defensive answers and offensively it is as hard to deal with as the only scarfers capable of outspeeding it at +2 is Swanna, Mr Mime, Dodrio and Persian (its legit I swear) which can even be tech'd with Sucker Punch to OHKO Dodrio and Swanna after rocks and Mr Mime outright, it also has a very decent bulk allowing for easy setups.

C to B - I wasn't kidding when I said this mon will be the next big thing, this thing has massive potential as CB basically doesnt have good switch-ins bar Frillish and sometimes clicking Crabhammer is just so free and it can abuse the fact it forces switches with easy to get itself a setup turn with either SD or Agility (Agility with Spikes is deadly). I swear guys try this thing out it goes crazy whenever it doesn't face Frillish.

C to B- - Really cool mon imo and rn its best set is def DD DTail RestTalk with full SpDef imo, this mon is very bulky already and it does great use of Rest cuz it procs its Marvel Scale to boost its Defense even further and it can also click neutral priority Dragon Tails when asleep while boosting itself with DD still, I'd use this set on stall with Spikes and Heal Bell support to make the most out of this bulky wincon.

New:

UR to B - This mon is actually really solid, it has a so many tools to work with depending on what a team might need while being very fat overall. My favorite Vullaby set rn is Brave Bird Taunt Toxic Roost which honestly 6-0s modern stall and still does decently into more offensive teams but it can also make good use of U-turn, Foul Play, Knock Off and Whirlwind. It can check stuff like Beeheyem, Duosion, Scraggy, Torterra, Shiftry, Edgeless Marowak and many others. I'm def looking forward to see it getting more usage.

UR to B- - Another decent mon that was left out of the VR, it can either be a bulky annoying pivot or a Guts breaker and I'm personally a fan of the bulky pivot set, Intimidate is a great tool for it giving many opportunities to come in on stuff, it doesn't have outstanding defensive stats nor a good defensive typing but it has enough to be a cool glue for offensive teams, Thunderbolt Volt Switch HP Ice Toxic can actually annoy any type of team. The Guts set is ok but the low speed is much more relevant on this set than on the bulky set since you are always taking damage from poison and hazards so you have very few opportunities to strike with moves that are not spammable at all, still an ok set.

UR to B- - Already talked about this on my project post but just would like to restate that this mon is legit, CB and get your kills or Pursuit something (which is the main reason I see this mon as usable at all).

UR to C+ - Solid utility mon that can actually take a lot of hits and is hard to switch in unpunished with a wide variety of options on its disposal like Knock Off, TWave, Toxic and Encore. Also talked more about this mon in another post.

UR to C+ - Can't pack the 'burst just yet but it still hits really hard with its perfect special coverage. Speed really hurts but hits hard enough to warrant a rank ig.

UR to C+ - Ok hear me out, this thing is legit, I almost ranked it on B- cuz it is actually a really solid sweeper. It doesn't have incredible offensive stats but the bulk and typing helps it so much to give it opportunities to spare, mainly to act as a Zebstrika check in an offensive team which is always cool. DD Waterfall EQ Blizzard/Ice Beam does what it needs to do, Blizzard is an option so you guarantee killing SpDef Torterra after Rocks + 1 spike while Ice Beam is a safer option to hit other grasses like Jumpluff and Simisage if you think you can wear opposing Torterra down enough for Beam to kill. Also always run this with Spikes (Dwebble or Glalie preferably). I haven`t messed with special sets to say enough.

UR to C+ - Talked about this on my other post but its actually a decent lead capable of anti-leading Dwebble and Rampardos while setting up rocks of its own as well. Don't use Curse.

UR to C - This mon either does everything or is just used as sack but holy shit does it hit hard. The main appeal is that on top of just hitting really hard it also does have access to Extreme Speed which is very useful to pick off other faster stuff and to outpriority other mons like Shiftry or Monferno. Hard to build with and harder to use it but like damn this mon can own sometimes real hard.

UR to C - Idk why this wasn't ranked before, rocker with reliable recovery uncapable of dying on the physical side being a great check vs stuff like Monferno (unlike the other rocker with recover Torterra) and Gabite.

UR to D - Rocker + Zebra check which can also take hits decently well.

UR to D - Traps the steels, not THAT effectively cuz Bronzor's Psywave does a lot to it potentially, Klang can Volt Switch and Mawile can BP out (it dies before it gets to do it but it pivots out on Mag coming in).

UR to D - Spinner with recovery that can actually threaten some stuff and it can spin on Frillish.

UR to D - Agility pass into this can cheese past teams if not facing something like Frillish or Mawile.

UR to D - Idt I need to say anything.

UR to D - Rocker with recovery and Wisp and ok bulk which makes it kinda annoying to switch in on it.

UR to D - SubTox is ok overall and the passive stuff that don't mind taking the hits struggle with breaking the Substitute.

UR to D - Spikes + Tspikes in a grounded Poison mon with good bulk can do something.

UR to D - Sub Confuse Ray can cheese past its own ability allowing it to start clicking if you get the right amount of luck. Helped get my first PUPL win btw.

UR to D - Hits really hard with great coverage but needs a ton of support to get going with ParaSpam since its just sooooo slow.


WHAT I THINK COULD HAVE A CHANCE OF MOVING

A- to A
A- to A
B+ to A-
B+ to A-


I'm gonna do a post about the teams I used on PUWC I don't promise but for now I'll leave you with this.

 

[SergioRules]

PILOSWINE IS BANNED FROM ADV PU

After much discussion among the playerbase and after the conclusion of ADV PU Cup, we have decided to ban Piloswine from ADV PU.
While not a completely unstoppable force, Piloswine's strong STAB Earthquakes coming off of the second highest Attack stat in the tier can put a dent in just about any Pokemon, even most who resist it. The most effective way of dealing with these Earthquakes is by using immunities, however, Choice Band sets can easily run Rock Slide to take out Flying-types like Noctowl and Togetic, while even an uninvested STAB Ice Beam hits Grass-types and Levitate users like Tangela, Tropius, Duskull, and Vibrava super hard. The only Pokemon that take neutral damage from all of EQ/Rock Slide/Ice Beam are Duskull, which does not beat Piloswine, and Lombre, which has to invest so defensively to live hits that it loses the ability to reliably KO Piloswine itself. Piloswine's bulk also makes it hard to KO. While 60 SpD is nothing to write home about, it's easily offset by 100 base HP and 80 Def. This combination of bulk and offensive power has been deemed too much for the tier to handle so Piloswine is off to ADV PUBL!

ON THE RADAR

As we continue to try and improve the ADV PU metagame, we try to look at things that could potentially become problems in the future. Right now, our main concerns are Mawile and Baton Pass.
Mawile isn't inherently too strong or necessarily broken in the tier, but Intimidate paired with the strong Steel-typing, Swords Dance, access to Baton Pass, it has a lot of role compression and can be hard to deal with for many teams. The main problem with Mawile is its ability to Baton Pass Swords Dance boosts to almost any teammate pretty reliably, such as Kingler, Furret, or Arbok. The problem with maybe banning Mawile is how many Pokemon it keeps in check, which could potentially unleash a huge offensive wave into the tier if it left. We'll be considering this over the next few months of play, as looking into Baton Pass could help us solve the issues with Mawile.
Baton Pass has pretty much always had some sort of issue with balancing it. For us right now, we have several potential options we've been considering ranging from different limitations than the current ones, or limiting it to only Dry Pass. We don't really want to ban Baton Pass outright, but it could eventually be a possibility.

IN THE FUTURE​

• If you have any opinions on the issues listed above, please make your own post or send me a message on Discord and I'll pass it along to the rest of the team to help us decide what to do about them.
• We're working on getting some updated sample teams, just a little bit longer!
• If you like writing on-site analyses and are interested in ADV PU, keep an eye out for ADV PU analyses which should be coming soon! Once we form a QC team, more info will come out about this moving forward.
• ADV PU TOURNAMENT 4?