Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

TMan87

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Ya gonna link that article cause I've never heard of it.
It's the one in my signature!

I have a bit of an oddity of my own, and it concerns Vivillon: why does it get Dream Eater and, to a lesser extent, Psych Up? Those are Psychic-type moves with relatively rare distribution, and they don't exactly fit the Pokémon's flavor. So how come?
 
It's the one in my signature!

I have a bit of an oddity of my own, and it concerns Vivillon: why does it get Dream Eater and, to a lesser extent, Psych Up? Those are Psychic-type moves with relatively rare distribution, and they don't exactly fit the Pokémon's flavor. So how come?
Ever since gen 1, butterfly and moth Pokemon have been associated with Psychic moves. I don't really know why they have that association (I guess that's a broader movepool oddity), but most of them can learn uncommon Psychic moves like Confusion, Psybeam, and indeed Dream Eater.

The only ones that don't learn weird Psychic moves are Beautifly, Volcarona, and Frosmoth, and even the first two still learn the move Psychic. But not Frosmoth, for some reason. I think it's the only lepidopteran that doesn't learn any Psychic attacks (Mirror Coat doesn't count). An oddity within an oddity.
 
...yes? I said it's not a move only learned by dragon-types specifically, not "anything dragon-ish". Because, as you've correctly noted, only dragon-types learn it... except for the couple of things that aren't of that type. Not seeing what you're correcting me on here?
Also, I forgot to answer to this.

I wanted to correct you, then while reading the list, I realized there was nothing to correct so I just reinforced your point instead o.o

Also crabs
 
Ever since gen 1, butterfly and moth Pokemon have been associated with Psychic moves. I don't really know why they have that association (I guess that's a broader movepool oddity), but most of them can learn uncommon Psychic moves like Confusion, Psybeam, and indeed Dream Eater.

The only ones that don't learn weird Psychic moves are Beautifly, Volcarona, and Frosmoth, and even the first two still learn the move Psychic. But not Frosmoth, for some reason. I think it's the only lepidopteran that doesn't learn any Psychic attacks (Mirror Coat doesn't count). An oddity within an oddity.
butterflies, and moths, have a supernatural association (usually with death iirc) in some countries (this is also probably why every single moth available is in Area Zero...) . So maybe getting ESP is part of that
 
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QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Trailblaze is an interesting move I like the idea of... let's examine the description, shall we:

The user attacks suddenly as if leaping out from tall grass. The user's nimble footwork boosts its Speed stat.

So everything that learns it is the sort of thing you'd find in grassy areas (Mareep, Scyther, Slaking, Tauros, Teddiursa) or simply nimble and quick and agile (Mewtwo, Sneasel, Blissey, Medicham, Spoink).

Why exactly do Numel and Camerupt learn it?
 
Why exactly do Numel and Camerupt learn it?
To be honest, to me it just looks like a generic TM learned by just... anything that can perform a basic jump.

There's other notable slow and chonky pokemon like Quagsire, Slaking, Glalie, Klawf etc in the learning pool.

Probably simply being able to jump is enough to be eligible for it...

(Also, they are camels after all, quite sure camels can jump as well)
 
it's not an actual jump skill. It moves really suddenly AS IF jumping out of tall grass
not that it is jumping out of tall grass

A lot of large lumbering animals are able to move in bursts of speed like that. Either their entire bodies for a brief period, or just a quick reaction time.
Camels aren't the slowest thing around to begin with, but even if it was something else like a just a cow it's not like they're impossible to surprise you.

So that's why you get a bunch of already nimble Pokemon, a bunch of grass types, a bunch of bulky Pokemon but could go fast in bursts, etc. They designed it as a more all-purpose move that could go to a lot of Pokemon, and the description is just some added flavor on top.
 
I mean if it is all-purpose pretty much any Pokemon should be able to learn it, because they all... jump out of the grass

It's kind of the premise the series is based around
To some degree yes, however even all-purpose skills that "everyone learns" haven't *really* been a thing recently.
The only actual example of "everyone and their mom learns it" is Tera Blast (for obvious reasons) this generation, however there are a lot of very commonly learned moves that tend to share being relatively low BP, have some sort of utility, and have a relatively wide amount of pokemon learning them.

I'm quite confident the intended design of this kind of moves (like Pounce or Trailblaze) is to give a relatively generic coverage option that isn't on the level of 2nd gym Scald nor nonsensical as "everyone gets Toxic for some reason", and still has some merit to be kept on your pokemon as you level up, but will eventually be replaced by actually good moves.

(+, by having additional useful effects, they are a imo good way to give a player a early introduction to low bp utility moves which can have actual use later on when tackling real PvP, like Snarl or Icy Wind for example)
 

Pikachu315111

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Trailblaze is an interesting move I like the idea of... let's examine the description, shall we:

The user attacks suddenly as if leaping out from tall grass. The user's nimble footwork boosts its Speed stat.
Adding another twist to this discussion, it's odd this is the description for a move called Trailblaze. The definition of trailblaze, at least the one which I think this Move is based on, is going through some wilderness and creating a path behind you (the exact word origin likely coming from the concept of burning through foilage to create a trail though a forest/jungle/are with heavy plant growth). The trailblazer doesn't even need to be fast by strict terms, as long as they're creating a trail behind them where there one wasn't, they are a "trailblazer".

I think a better definition that would fit most Pokemon which get it would be "The user attacks while uprooting foilage in its way. The clearer path boosts its Speed stat".
 

Celever

i am town
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Adding another twist to this discussion, it's odd this is the description for a move called Trailblaze. The definition of trailblaze, at least the one which I think this Move is based on, is going through some wilderness and creating a path behind you (the exact word origin likely coming from the concept of burning through foilage to create a trail though a forest/jungle/are with heavy plant growth). The trailblazer doesn't even need to be fast by strict terms, as long as they're creating a trail behind them where there one wasn't, they are a "trailblazer".

I think a better definition that would fit most Pokemon which get it would be "The user attacks while uprooting foilage in its way. The clearer path boosts its Speed stat".
While I overall agree with Worldie and think this move is just a throwaway Flame Charge clone (because locking a +1 speed weak attack behind being able to generate flames is limiting) I think this is the right definition for the move. It explains why the vast majority of learners are ones that are straight up animals, weighted toward mammals, as animals either create and enforce their own boundaries of their territories, or just kind of roam wherever without caring much about territory. Both of these are "trailblazing" in their own ways (but, edit after the post, roaming wherever is actually more common and I think a better use of the term).

Roam Wherever:
Mice: Pichu family, Dedenne, Maushold
Rabbits: Igglybuff family, Azurill family, Scorbunny family
Cows / Ox / Bull: Tauroses
Foxes: Eevee and whatever Eeveelutions you want
Chickens / Roosters: Zapdos-Galar
Wind Riders: Hoppip family, Bramblin family
Axolotl: Happiny family, Woopers
Salamander: Quagsires, Salandit family, Toxtricities
Giraffes: Girafarig family
Bears: Teddiursa family, Cubchoo family, Urshifus
Elephants: Phanpy family
Deer (unless horny): Stantler family, Deerling family
Camels: Numel family
Pigs / Boars: Spoink family, Lechonk family
Desert Bandits: Cacnea family
Canada Jays: Swablu family (due to the behaviour of landing on humans' heads to steal food which they are notable for)
Snakes: Seviper
Vengeful Animism of Hatred Seeking The Child That Disowned Them or Pokémon That Broke Its Handiwork's Structural Integrity: Banette, Mimikyu
Mokèlé-mbèmbé: Tropius
Yukinko and Yuki-Onna and also whatever Glalie is: Snorunt family
Squirrels: Pachirisu, Skwovet (humorously only Skwovet is compatible with the TM)
Skunks: Stunky family
Invading Soldiers: Axew family (I just find the mouth-axe thing and their stats to be berserkery), Hawlucha (Eagle Warrior), Falinks
Hedgehogs: Chespin family
Frogs / Ninjas: Froakie family
Goats: Skiddo family
Mongoose: Yungoos family
Hawaiian Honeycreepers: Oricorio
Orangutan: Oranguru
Imps: Impidimp family
Horses: Glastrier (but not Spectrier?)
Crabs: Klawf
An Actual Bike: Cyclizar. Interestingly, not Koraidon or Miraidon though.
Snails: Wo-Chien


Create and Enforce Territory:
Ducks: Psyduck family
Tapirs: Drowzee family
Mantis: Scyther family, Fomantis family
Sheep: Mareep family
Beetles: Heracross
Weasels: Sneasel families
Penguins: Delibird (though Santa roams everywhere!)
Sloths: Slakoth family
Crickets: Kricketune, Nymble family
Moths: Larvesta family, Slither Wing
Owls: Rowlet family
Gorilla: Grookey family
Worms That Live in Apples: Flapple and Appletun
Zarude: (I have see the movie)
Spiders: Tarountula family
Aye-Aye: Shroodle family


Kind of both:
Cats: Meowth families, whatever Eeveelutions you want, Mewtwo, Mew, Litleo family, Sprigatito family
Dogs / Wolves: Whatever Eeveelutions you want, Houndour family, Shinx family, Rockruff family, Zacian, Zamazenta, Fidough family, Maschiff family
God: Arceus
Lemur: Passimian (lemurs mark their territory but don't really care if other lemur chill with them lol)
Koala: Komala (highly territorial but also only mate and socialise by letting territories overlap)


Neither:
Bonsly Family. Because they're rocks pretending to be trees. We all know why they get the move (for the gym fight).
Sunkern Family. Because they're plants. They can't really move. Especially Sunkern it has no legs.
Meditite Family. Because monks are not outwardly territorial as far as I know, but also aren't exactly budding explorers.
Riolu Family. Because Anubis is greater than territory and also didn't exactly go for long journies.
Snover Family. Because they're either trees, "snow monsters" (trees covered in snow!), or like maybe a yeti but that's a reach anyway.
Petillil Family. You can make some reaches like Lilligant is a bit princessy and they create territory but like, eh.
Flabébé Family. You can argue like some nymphs roam and there's the whole fae realm but overall I think it doesn't fit. You have to reach to make them fit.
Dominatrix / mangosteen: Bounsweet family
Olive: Smoliv family
Toedscool family: But it's STAB and a decent way to show off it can walk now so I guess it gets a pass.
Chilli Peppers or Theatre Masks. You could make a really bold attempt at "theatre companies roam around performing" but like. Lol.
Brute Bonnet because I can't work out what they think is different between Amoonguss and Brute Bonnet to cause the latter to learn Trailblaze but not the former
A Weird Robot Creation of an Animalistic Musketeer: Iron Leaves.


--------------------------------------------------

There are a few ways you can take this analysis. The first is that being free roamers and unterritorial is far overrepresented, and notably there are various species in the territorial category who have Pokémon based on them that don't learn Trailblaze (e.g. Quaxly family being ducks but not learning Trailblaze like Psyduck family does), and as a result not being territorial should be the primary qualification for learning Trailblaze. There are certainly reasonings for some of the territorial mons that can make them fit better (Santa goes everywhere for Delibird, Drowzee invades homes to eat dreams, Tarountula family has the ninja element to it).

Either way though, I think there is a list of mons who should probably not learn Trailblaze within the territorial and neither sections. Humorously, the neither section is heavily populated by Grass-Type Pokémon. This attack hasn't been given to that many Grass-Type Pokémon, and aside from Sunkern and Arboliva every Grass-Type with it is at least capable of walking and/or running, but the specific distribution still feels somewhat random. The territorial section is also quite populated with Grass-Type Pokémon in comparison to the mons who actually should learn the move, so hey.
 
:sv/swanna:
Wikipedia said:
The swan song is a metaphorical phrase for a final gesture, effort, or performance given just before death or retirement. The phrase refers to an ancient belief that swans sing a beautiful song just before their death since they have been silent (or alternatively not so musical) for most of their lifetime.
Why no Perish Song? No Memento? Even if Game Freak didn't want to reference swan songs for some reason, they at least could have given Swanna anything to do with swans as opposed to giving it the most generic Water/Flying movepool possible. Even something inconsequential like giving it Attract through level-up would have been better than what Swanna has now. Seriously, this thing only learns Water and Flying moves through level-up.
 
:sv/swanna:


Why no Perish Song? No Memento? Even if Game Freak didn't want to reference swan songs for some reason, they at least could have given Swanna anything to do with swans as opposed to giving it the most generic Water/Flying movepool possible. Even something inconsequential like giving it Attract through level-up would have been better than what Swanna has now. Seriously, this thing only learns Water and Flying moves through level-up.
Incidentally, Swanna is one of the very few pokemon that triggers the "oh yes this pokemon exists" feel on me any time i see it.
Obviously the whole point is that I don't even remind of their existance until I actually see them, but I can definitely say Swanna and Heatmor are two of that list.
I'm not sure why specifically, probably a combination of generic design, generic typing and not even having any particular gimmick associated to them. May also be why they keep giving some kind of unique gimmick to most new Pokemon families, since otherwise we'd just be stacking generic forgettable mons. Easy example would be Cramorant, which is just another generic water/flying, but that's easier to just "remind it exists" due to it eating Pikachus (great thing btw, delete the rat)

I can count these on a hand or two (or, I could count them if I actually reminded of their existance in first place), but I give credit where it's due, *most* Pokemon manage to have something that makes me remind of their existance in a vacuum and at least have something that distinguishes them from the other 1k or so.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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This attack hasn't been given to that many Grass-Type Pokémon, and aside from Sunkern and Arboliva every Grass-Type with it is at least capable of walking and/or running, but the specific distribution still feels somewhat random.
So, I just checked, and actually most Grass-types in the Paldea Dex do learn Trailblazer. There's only 3 exceptions: Shroomish family, Rotom-Mow, and Foongus family.

Shroomish family is the most interesting here, not cause of Shroomish, but because this excludes Breloom. Apparently, and using the actual Move description, the following Pokemon are better at jumping at an opponent as if from tall grass than the boxing kangaroo/raptor mushroom: Sunkern/Sunflora, Smoliv/Arboliva, Petelil/normal Lilligant, Appletun, Bramblin/Brambleghast, Wo-Chien. And though SV doesn't mention it, this is from past Dex entries for Breloom:
Ruby/Omega Ruby: Breloom closes in on its foe with light and sprightly footwork, then throws punches with its stretchy arms. This Pokémon's fighting technique puts boxers to shame.
BTW, Arboliva does have legs. I know, it was a surprise to me too, I thought it's body was just a brown tree base until I think I watched a playthrough and noticed it have white thing legs. And I used an Arboliva on my main team in Violet, though the feet aren't really noticeable from the back (also it was a special attacker and whenever it uses a special Move it just spins around in place).
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
So, I just checked, and actually most Grass-types in the Paldea Dex do learn Trailblazer. There's only 3 exceptions: Shroomish family, Rotom-Mow, and Foongus family.

Shroomish family is the most interesting here, not cause of Shroomish, but because this excludes Breloom. Apparently, and using the actual Move description, the following Pokemon are better at jumping at an opponent as if from tall grass than the boxing kangaroo/raptor mushroom: Sunkern/Sunflora, Smoliv/Arboliva, Petelil/normal Lilligant, Appletun, Bramblin/Brambleghast, Wo-Chien. And though SV doesn't mention it, this is from past Dex entries for Breloom:


BTW, Arboliva does have legs. I know, it was a surprise to me too, I thought it's body was just a brown tree base until I think I watched a playthrough and noticed it have white thing legs. And I used an Arboliva on my main team in Violet, though the feet aren't really noticeable from the back (also it was a special attacker and whenever it uses a special Move it just spins around in place).
This is especially funny because while writing the post, before deciding to concede to Bulbapedia's definition of Chansey as an axolotl (press X to doubt), I had Chansey in its own "IDK" tier because I have no idea what it is. And one of the things I said was "if it is a kangaroo thanks to the pouch then Trailblaze would make sense, so it's probably fine".

I guess kangaroos are, in fact, not fine. They are infamously checks notes docile animals who are easy to domesticate and herd, and who love to stick to their own territory. Yeah, that's right.
 
Shroomish family is the most interesting here, not cause of Shroomish, but because this excludes Breloom. Apparently, and using the actual Move description, the following Pokemon are better at jumping at an opponent as if from tall grass than the boxing kangaroo/raptor mushroom: Sunkern/Sunflora, Smoliv/Arboliva, Petelil/normal Lilligant, Appletun, Bramblin/Brambleghast, Wo-Chien. And though SV doesn't mention it, this is from past Dex entries for Breloom:
for better or worse, this strikes me more as a balancing decision than any lore reason - Technician-boosted Trailblaze is tame on its own, but combined with Spore I can see some concern about that dynamic in particular.

Of course, this is the gen with Flutter Mane in it, so who knows if pesky things like “balance” and “game design” really matter here.
 
GameFreak's whims of balance can swing wildly

Sometimes they want to play it safe (possibly with an overabundance of caution). Sometimes they just want something to be really absurd. Sometimes they have something that wants to and probably should be absurd, but they pull back on it.
 
Sleep would still be very strong if VGC had some sort of Sleep Clause, but it's wild that their official format having no restrictions on the status has likely impacted multiple balancing decisions, either on the moves themselves (Dark Void) or on the Pokémon getting them (Brute Bonnet, Toedscruel, possibly Breloom as is being discussed).
That is just how GF does.

There are no bans or special rules. Other than species/item clause, if you can obtain it in game, it's fair game.

It's unlikely there will ever be anything else. They have done the occasional special ruleset to spice up the intermediate seasons recently, but it was still always just in the line of pokemon available to use and not moves or items, and the various world events have always been on "anything available" ruleset (minus restricteds that are saved for the final worlds of a gen, once more without any special restriction)

I'd also point that sleep is not as overbearing in VGC. While very strong, doubles have completely different shenenigans than singles. Iirc there is also no sleep clause in smogon doubles for same reason. Item clause also allows players to feel less punished for using items like Lum or Safety Goggles compared to smogon's 6v6 rulesets.
 
Speaking of oddities..

Something completely random (appropriately) that came up today with Metronome.

I was looking for learners in gen 9 for completely unrelated reasons, and I noticed that apparently the list of uncallable moves got significantly increased in gen 9.
What's more interesting is the moves that are on it...
There's a bunch of signature moves that otherwise don't really have any reason to be there (Also I didn't know many of these were there in gen 8 either or previous ones but some other could, es you can't call Origin Pulse but you can call Roar of Time).
I would assume this is just cause they feel signature moves should be signature moves and don't exactly make sense to be called by other mons, plus there is also the animations issue (if anyone saw the Dugtrio Sunsteel Strike youtube skit, you know what I mean).
Then again somehow the Hoopa moves are callable despite not being before either.

However, what's more interesting is the presence of a bunch of gen 9 TMs. Stuff like idk, Chilling Water or Pounce. Even Snowscape is there for some reason, while other weather moves are regularly callable.

My personal assumpion is that for these gen 9 moves, they just had them uncallable at start and then forgot to take the flag off. Would be curious if anyone has any other idea on why though, maybe any of the actual data gurus that hang in the datamine thread...
 
Incidentally, Swanna is one of the very few pokemon that triggers the "oh yes this pokemon exists" feel on me any time i see it.
Obviously the whole point is that I don't even remind of their existance until I actually see them, but I can definitely say Swanna and Heatmor are two of that list.
I'm not sure why specifically, probably a combination of generic design, generic typing and not even having any particular gimmick associated to them. May also be why they keep giving some kind of unique gimmick to most new Pokemon families, since otherwise we'd just be stacking generic forgettable mons. Easy example would be Cramorant, which is just another generic water/flying, but that's easier to just "remind it exists" due to it eating Pikachus (great thing btw, delete the rat)

I can count these on a hand or two (or, I could count them if I actually reminded of their existance in first place), but I give credit where it's due, *most* Pokemon manage to have something that makes me remind of their existance in a vacuum and at least have something that distinguishes them from the other 1k or so.
My theory for why so many gen 5 Pokemon are so forgettable: It was a "soft reboot" of the series, so many of the Pokemon were "modernized" versions of older (especially gen 1) Pokemon, like the Timburr line vs. the Machop line, and most of those Pokemon were more basic compared to Pokemon in later generations. However, the gen 1 Pokemon have the whole "being the OGs" and are also more memorable just by having been around for much longer.
 

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