np: UU Stage 3 - We Are The Champions

[Shy Glizzy]

Whimsicott is a very underrated annoyer with priority subseed. If you don't pack on powerful attacks from the start, your mons will be worn down fast.

 

[LMK]

I still don't think Stoutland is broken but not every Stoutland is CB. All of your arguments are based on the fact that he only has one attack. In any event, prediction is not a valid argument against being broken while simply having the coverage move is a valid argument for it.

In an earlier post I questioned why people don't use LO more on stoutland. I think it is a good choice for him depending on the team makeup. The vast majority of stoutland I've seen since even before the new drops have been CB so it's the set I refer to when making my arguments for the most part as it's 'standard' in my experience.

I was not trying to imply that prediction made him not broken. I was trying to imply that smart play which naturally involves prediction goes a long way against stoutland. I was also trying to imply that team makeup can make it inherently harder for stoutland to sweep if he has a CB. If he can't just click frustration because you've got a ghost and a normal resist you've given yourself some flexibility to fight off that stoutland sweep. Stoutland entering the battlefield isn't auto-lose by any means if you play in a way to keep your options of checking him open. If your opponent broke those checks and counters then sucks to be you.

I don't recall once saying that X strategy beats stoutland 100%. My ideas/reasons may not seem "adequate" in the eyes of some but I dont think things like hazards, priority, not crap team makeup, weather changing moves, etc are out of the norm by any means. I don't think it would be hard to fit these concepts, which have uses far beyond stoutland, onto a team.

 

[jamashawalker]

I'm really liking this metagame right now..It leaves plenty of room for underrated movesets and pokemon to be productive..it also seems alot more diverse than the last round..other than sand playing style every now and then, I dont believe i ran into similar style constantly

 

[Forsety]

EDIT: And dont get me started on how in one turn a weather change takes away his speed advantage. For all the talk about sand being everywhere I dont see a lot of people taking strides to pack just one weather move.

Pretty much because its a inherent disadvantage, Rain is too easy to override simply by bringing back Hippowdon and too easy to wall with the near required prescence of a bulky water or Roserade. Speaking of which is bloody everywhere.

Sun is a no go full stop for previous reason and despite the availability of powerful Sun abusers, Sun teams tend to be the ones least able to function out of their weather. That just leaves Hail as the only legitimate counter but Sand has the distinct advantage of being more versatile then Hail especially now the weather starter is a legitimate threat.

So only other option is to try play around Sand with a balanced or hyper offensive team and at a significant disadvantage.

 

[Scoopapa]

Stoutland actually barely ekes out a lot of his OHKOes and 2HKOes with a Choice Band, so he loses out on quite a bit by switching to Life Orb (not to mention the health loss). This isn't to say that Life Orb is bad, but he's either subject to the weaknesses of Choice items or he's reasonably easy to revenge kill. Either way it still requires a certain amount of strategy and prediction to sweep with him. Sure he's incredible, but I don't buy broken.

 

[Upstart]

Honestly I am confused where the idea of stoutland being broken comes from. I mean a normal resistance or/and immunity would be necessary in metagame without stout. In regards to the LO vs CB debate CB is much better as the number of one and two hit KOs is much greater with CB. In addition Stoutland's survivability is one of his better assets. There is no need to waste that by utilizing a life orb.

As far as broken things I still propose that Alakazam is broken. I concede that he is frail and has trouble switching in. But I must point out that he can survive a number of weaker hits be they unstabbed or from defensive pokemon. I concede that he can be revenge killed/ pursuited by faster threats. However I find that from past experience that the "he isn't broken he can be revenge killed" argument doesn't hold much water as to be revenge killed he has already taken out a member of your team. Nothing that is faster then him can switch in safely without a prediction war as with Psychic Shadow Ball Focus Blast Zam is denting everything. I also concede that Zam domination requires good prediction but as do most sweepers. Now lets examine what Zam has going for it. Zam requires no real set up and get gut teams from the get go. Zam has arguably the best ability in the game no Hazards, status, or life orb damage. An insane special attack stat along with one of the best speeds in all of UU. Zam amazing coverage and a slew of support moves: encore, substitute, calm mind.

What has happened to chandelure? I haven't seen many in a while.

 

[Ewil]

I've using Chandelure for a while and it's pretty good.
I was using the SUB+3 Attacks set and it works very well as an anti-spinner, special attacker and fire move absorber. It's a bit too frail and susceptible to many common attack types, but sub works around this perfectly.

 

[Banedon]

Stoutland actually barely ekes out a lot of his OHKOes and 2HKOes with a Choice Band, so he loses out on quite a bit by switching to Life Orb (not to mention the health loss). This isn't to say that Life Orb is bad, but he's either subject to the weaknesses of Choice items or he's reasonably easy to revenge kill. Either way it still requires a certain amount of strategy and prediction to sweep with him. Sure he's incredible, but I don't buy broken.

This - example from personal experience:

CB 252+ Stoutland Return vs. 252/252+ Quagsire: 46.4% - 54.8%
LO 252+ Stoutland Return vs. 252/252+ Quagsire: 40.6% - 48%

The line is very close, but can be the difference between Quagsire walling Stoutland and not if hazards are down. Life Orb also makes Stoutland die that much faster (it is vulnerable to Sandstorm damage).

I think Stoutland is a great Pokemon, but like Scoopapa I'm borderline on whether or not it's broken. It's fantastically fast and it hits really hard. It's also bulky enough to take on common priority attacks. Against that, each individual attack it uses can be walled. Sure, it can go for Crunch if it knows the opponent has a Ghost, but the damage difference if the opponent does not go to a Ghost is severe. Compare the calculations above with:

CB 252+ Stoutland Crunch vs. 252/252+ Quagsire: 24.4% - 28.9%

If there's something broken about Stoutland, it is that it can revenge kill lots of stuff that set up on its attacks. For example, Raikou can Calm Mind on Stoutland locked into Pursuit, but two turns later Stoutland can just come back in, this time with Return, to eliminate Raikou. Since it is so fast, even stuff like Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance cannot stop Stoutland from revenging. As for removing Stoutland's weather, it's not easy. Abomasnow cannot switch into Stoutland, and while other Pokemon can use random weather to take out sand, Hippowdon can put sand back up simply by switching in. Using your free turns to put up rain for example instead of trying to inflict a burn with Scald or catch a switch-in with Thunder Wave / Toxic isn't very good.

Is Stoutland broken? I'm leaning towards no, but it's a very strong Pokemon. That's also my position on Alakazam at the moment: a very strong Pokemon, but not broken. Whimsicott though I find quite weak. I wouldn't be surprised if it dropped to RU.

Why is everyone using Psychic / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball with Alakazam? Do you guys not find it hard to break through Pokemon like Suicune and Milotic with that?

EDIT: @below - LOL, and I didn't even notice! Haha, next time I see a Stoutland taking sand damage I'll know it's not using Sand Rush lololololol ...

 

[Nysyr]

Stoutland is immune to sandstorm damage when using sand rush.

 

[SJCrew]

So because these don't OHKO they arent credible? OPTIONS. I'm trying to stress options to outplaying stoutland. If you see stoutland in team preview you know with SR you can kill him with priority @50%. That sounds like a crap plan to you and if that is the best you've got against stoutland your team probably has other issues but that player can then formulate a plan. If my team has priority + anything else that gives stoutland troubles I'm looking that much better. See where I'm going? All of these things compound because of what I think stoutlands biggest issue is. He is a choicelocked physical attacker.

The thing about your 'options' is that they don't even threaten Stoutland. Priority attacks dealing below 50% are just laughable, that's like playing an Ubers match and saying Mewtwo is 'dealt with' by priority when it's at 40%. Of course you have to play around these guys, you'll just lose the match if you don't. The difference between Mewtwo and Stoutland, however, is that Stoutland has counters, namely Rock-types, which are suddenly really good in Sandstorm. But Stoutland puts so much offensive pressure on you that he doesn't even have to get in much to do his job and clean up late-game, so there's no guarantee you'll even get down to that magic number if the opportunity arose.

Also, I don't think he's going to care about your Ghosts when he can just threaten them with Crunch or Pursuit them himself. I don't know why you're even still bringing that up.

My ideas/reasons may not seem "adequate" in the eyes of some but I dont think things like hazards, priority, not crap team makeup, weather changing moves, etc are out of the norm by any means. I don't think it would be hard to fit these concepts, which have uses far beyond stoutland, onto a team.

I don't like this line of reasoning. For one, you're assuming all teams should have an easy time with Stoutland or else they're 'crap'. Automatically having double speed and killing off your offensive mons does tend to put you into a position where you're very vulnerable to him lategame and he can easily clean up. Having a lot of Normal resists in UU is just not feasible, since Ghosts can't get the job done, Steels are rare (and beatable), and Rock-types are usually Rhyperior, Omastar, or bust. Don't be surprised to find a Sand team running right through you when your opponent happens to have all of those hazards/team strategies you keep talking about.

 

[Avira]

Honestly I am confused where the idea of stoutland being broken comes from. I mean a normal resistance or/and immunity would be necessary in metagame without stout. In regards to the LO vs CB debate CB is much better as the number of one and two hit KOs is much greater with CB. In addition Stoutland's survivability is one of his better assets. There is no need to waste that by utilizing a life orb.

As far as broken things I still propose that Alakazam is broken. I concede that he is frail and has trouble switching in. But I must point out that he can survive a number of weaker hits be they unstabbed or from defensive pokemon. I concede that he can be revenge killed/ pursuited by faster threats. However I find that from past experience that the "he isn't broken he can be revenge killed" argument doesn't hold much water as to be revenge killed he has already taken out a member of your team. Nothing that is faster then him can switch in safely without a prediction war as with Psychic Shadow Ball Focus Blast Zam is denting everything. I also concede that Zam domination requires good prediction but as do most sweepers. Now lets examine what Zam has going for it. Zam requires no real set up and get gut teams from the get go. Zam has arguably the best ability in the game no Hazards, status, or life orb damage. An insane special attack stat along with one of the best speeds in all of UU. Zam amazing coverage and a slew of support moves: encore, substitute, calm mind.

What has happened to chandelure? I haven't seen many in a while.

Agree entirely. Life Orb on Stoutland severely hampers its survivability and makes it lose crucial KOs, making Choice Band clearly the best set, and even that set can be played around. I share the same sentiment about Alakazam being broken. It dealt monstrous amounts of damage in the past, and now with the introduction of Psyshock and Magic Guard, it can hit at both ends of the spectrum as well as having much more survivability than it did in Gen IV. Spiritomb is the best check to it, but it just isn't a very effective Pokemon in this tier.

I would guess that Chandelure usage dropped once people kept losing to Snorlax with it, although I think that the Specs and SubSplit sets are still very effective and that Chandelure usage should go back up.

 

[tennisace]

Spiritomb is the best check to it, but it just isn't a very effective Pokemon in this tier.

This statement is false on so many levels. CB Spiritomb is an excellent spinblocker, as it not only blocks rapid spin, it checks Alakazam and Stoutland, while also crippling TONS of bulky mons with Trick. It is probably the MVP of my team right now.

That brings me to another point: why aren't people using Xatu more? It basically shuts down anything that wants to set up like: Roserade, Hippowdon, Sableye, Mew, etc., while supporting the team with Wish and Thunder Wave. I can't tell you how many times I've blocked a spin from Hitmontop (with Spiritomb!!) and switched into the Toxic, or my Hippowdon leading vs their Roserade and I just bounce their spikes back. Seriously this thing is good.

 

[LMK]

The thing about your 'options' is that they don't even threaten Stoutland. Priority attacks dealing below 50% are just laughable, that's like playing an Ubers match and saying Mewtwo is 'dealt with' by priority when it's at 40%. Of course you have to play around these guys, you'll just lose the match if you don't. The difference between Mewtwo and Stoutland, however, is that Stoutland has counters, namely Rock-types, which are suddenly really good in Sandstorm. But Stoutland puts so much offensive pressure on you that he doesn't even have to get in much to do his job and clean up late-game, so there's no guarantee you'll even get down to that magic number if the opportunity arose.

Also, I don't think he's going to care about your Ghosts when he can just threaten them with Crunch or Pursuit them himself. I don't know why you're even still bringing that up.


I don't like this line of reasoning. For one, you're assuming all teams should have an easy time with Stoutland or else they're 'crap'. Automatically having double speed and killing off your offensive mons does tend to put you into a position where you're very vulnerable to him lategame and he can easily clean up. Having a lot of Normal resists in UU is just not feasible, since Ghosts can't get the job done, Steels are rare (and beatable), and Rock-types are usually Rhyperior, Omastar, or bust. Don't be surprised to find a Sand team running right through you when your opponent happens to have all of those hazards/team strategies you keep talking about.

This is really getting old. I'll say this for the last time. I'm not suggesting that ANY of these things are 100% counters to stoutland. I didn't say that if you had an azumarril then all of a sudden stoutland is a non issue. What I am trying to say is that moves and strategies/playstyles which exist in the metagame are options for players to use without having to implement something completely over the top.

I've literally said that priority alone isn't a good way to beat stoutland. I said that just having one pokemon with type X is not a good way to beat stoutland. I did not say a team was crap if it didnt have an easy time of stoutland. Having a good team composition aids in battling stoutland. If he enters battle and your team is 6-KO'd then it might, just might, be a good idea to tweak some things.

Of course there is no guarantee that situation X will occur and stoutland is dead. Never said that. Never meant to imply such a thing. What's important when someone asks about stoutland being broken is that he cannot sweep no matter what because their exist methods to beat him. Some are much better than others. Would you be happier if I was suggesting things like Rhyperior/Bisharp/Aggron/Technitop/Sableye/steelix/cobalion/Escavlier? But then, if stoutland uses a coverage move he wins. Right?

If I've constructed a team I try to examine all the possible ways I could win a matchup or beat a certain threat. Sometimes you have that moment of pokemon genius and end up pulling a win out by doing something 'laughable'.

Pretty much because its a inherent disadvantage, Rain is too easy to override simply by bringing back Hippowdon and too easy to wall with the near required prescence of a bulky water or Roserade. Speaking of which is bloody everywhere

Why am I using rain dance when hippowdon is still alive? If you are going to do something dumb like that then yes, you are at a disadvantage and wasted a moveslot. If you had something like a kingdra or ludiculo who can pull of the RD+3 attack set, killing Hippo could be your path to victory. With the popularity of weather (sand), if a person can fit in RD/SD/hail go for it, if not, dont worry about it.

This statement is false on so many levels. CB Spiritomb is an excellent spinblocker, as it not only blocks rapid spin, it checks Alakazam and Stoutland, while also crippling TONS of bulky mons with Trick. It is probably the MVP of my team right now.

I've tried to get the point across already that CB tomb is viable in this meta. Let's see what the response is when someone with more 'rep' says it.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Stoutland is honestly only a major threat if your team is composed of a lot of frail sweepers. Most teams have a decently bulky pokemon that can take a hit and beat Stoutland 1v1, examples being Machamp, Excavalier, Rhyperior(any Rock type really), Milotic, Suicune, Hippowdon, Hitmontop, Shaymin, Arcanine, Bisharp and many more.

 

[Snunch]

The problem with having a pokemon that can take "one hit" is that they for the most part still lose. For example, standard Empoleon is 3HKOed by CB Frustration, whereas it needs a lucky scald burn to win. This means that Empoleon wins 30% of the time if it switches in and 51% of the time if it "revenges". Not too good for a tank who resists normal. This isn't Alakazam we're talking about, Stoutland actually has pretty good natural bulk and can take a hit itself. Not to say that Stoutland is broken, it just requires a better check than something that can take a hit.

About Xatu, it always ends up being a liability for me. You have to predict perfectly to reflect hazards back against very common pokemon like Roserade, Empoleon, and Froslass, and because of team preview, the door is wide open for the opponent to simply use a STAB attack and beat Xatu. Xatu is a star with the right team matchup, but if you rely on it to reflect back hazards too much you'll just flat out lose to many teams assuming somewhat equal levels of play.

 

[Shy Glizzy]

Machamp and Milotic are both outsped and 2koed. So is Shaymin.

 

[Whimsicott]

I prefer spinning and status absorbers over Xatu. Xatu is pretty much a sitting duck for so many pokemon in the tier, eg. anything with sub cm (mismaggy, raikou, etc.. ). :l

But I can vouch for Spiritomb, it's a monster (:

 

[Forsety]

However absolutely necessary Rapid Spinners are in UU they are completely frickin useless, near every spinner is too easily walled and blocked or free setups. I have to agree with above Xatu seems far more useful as long you can get him in and out whenever you need to.

Donphan- Does nothing to most ghosts and is a free switch in for Roserade to setup more.
Hitmontop- If it doesn't nail a Toxic every Ghost in existence will stomp all over it and is even a easy switch in for Golurk who almost always gets a KO off if you let it in. It also again does nothing to Roserade who gets a free setup.
Blastoise- Makes a good bulky water but has no offensive presence without sacrificing tons of bulk and survivability and still isn't terribly effective against more ghosts. Also yet again Roserade lols all over it.
Claydol- What do you know...Roserade shits all over it again...and most ghosts too.
Cryogonal- Is more likely to actually threaten some ghosts but otherwise doesn't offer much besides a new rock weakness but at least has recovery, if only it had something resembling defense.
Torkoal- SR weak and spike vulnerable without recovery and mediocre defenses...yeah.
Armaldo- Same deal as above but with actual offenses, its still doing nothing to most ghosts though.

If anyone has any ideas/movesets/partners for how the hell to get that Rapid Spin off without having to go out of your way (AKA useless moves like Foresight) I'm all ears, till then I think prevention is better.

 

[breh]

out of all of them, blastoise is probably the best. mono-water is pretty damn good as typings go and scald is a great move.

 

[SJCrew]

What's important when someone asks about stoutland being broken is that he cannot sweep no matter what

Stoutland actually sweeps a lot of teams who only pack one or two resists to him. It's about as easy as Pursuiting a Ghost and clicking Return. In this match, for instance.

Yeah, I had to get on your case for a bit, but it's the only way you'll learn.

Battle between SJCrew and Pikapwnd started!

Tier: Standard UU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +12, -20
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Your team: Hippowdon / Nidoking / Stoutland / Froslass / Cobalion / Blastoise
Opponent's team: Zapdos / Suicune / Mamoswine / Roserade / Chandelure / Bouffalant

BlightBringer is watching the battle.
Pikapwnd: good luck
BlightBringer: how 2 kill stoutland??
SJCrew: see what you do is
SJCrew: stop saying shit like "priority"
SJCrew: because as we saw in the thread, it does no damage to him
BlightBringer: i never say priority
BlightBringer: i hate nigs that do
SJCrew: yeah, most priority is ass
BlightBringer: im like nigga priority moves are 40 base power...
SJCrew: arcanine's cb
SJCrew: doesn't break half
Snoring is watching the battle.
SJCrew: -__-
Pikapwnd sent out MamoTroll! (Mamoswine)
SJCrew sent out Froslass!

Start of turn 1
Froslass used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of Pikapwnd's team!

The foe's MamoTroll used Earthquake!
Froslass lost 249 HP! (72% of its health)

Froslass restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
BlightBringer: man uu looks hard

Start of turn 2
Froslass used Pain Split!
The battlers shared their pain!

The foe's MamoTroll used Earthquake!
Froslass lost 228 HP! (66% of its health)

Froslass restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SJCrew: it's not
SJCrew: just sand
SJCrew: sand sand sand

Start of turn 3
SJCrew called Froslass back!
SJCrew sent out Cobalion!

The foe's MamoTroll used Ice Shard!
It's not very effective...
Cobalion lost 29 HP! (8% of its health)

Start of turn 4
Pikapwnd called MamoTroll back!
Pikapwnd sent out TrollCune! (Suicune)
The foe's TrollCune is hurt by spikes!

The foe's TrollCune is exerting its Pressure!
Cobalion used Iron Head!
It's not very effective...
The foe's TrollCune lost 12% of its health!

The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
SJCrew called Cobalion back!
SJCrew sent out Blastoise!

The foe's TrollCune used Scald!
It's not very effective...
Blastoise lost 34 HP! (9% of its health)

Blastoise restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Pikapwnd: Sand, Hail can be good... Standard teams. mainly balanced/HO

Start of turn 6
SJCrew called Blastoise back!
SJCrew sent out Froslass!

The foe's TrollCune used Scald!
Froslass lost 32 HP! (9% of its health)
Froslass fainted!

The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SJCrew sent out Blastoise!

Start of turn 7
Blastoise used Toxic!
The attack of Blastoise missed!

The foe's TrollCune used Scald!
It's not very effective...
Blastoise lost 35 HP! (9% of its health)

Blastoise restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
Blastoise used Toxic!
The foe's TrollCune was poisoned!

The foe's TrollCune used Scald!
It's not very effective...
Blastoise lost 30 HP! (8% of its health)
Blastoise was burned!

Blastoise restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Blastoise is hurt by its burn!
The foe's TrollCune is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 9
SJCrew called Blastoise back!
SJCrew sent out Hippowdon!

Hippowdon's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune used Roar!
Stoutland was dragged out!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's TrollCune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's TrollCune is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 10
Stoutland used Wild Charge!
It's super effective!
The foe's TrollCune lost 44% of its health!
Stoutland is hit with recoil!

The foe's TrollCune used Rest!
The foe's TrollCune went to sleep and became healthy!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's TrollCune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11
Pikapwnd called TrollCune back!
Pikapwnd sent out MamoTroll! (Mamoswine)
The foe's MamoTroll is hurt by spikes!

Stoutland used Wild Charge!
It had no effect!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 12
SJCrew called Stoutland back!
SJCrew sent out Hippowdon!

The foe's MamoTroll used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around SJCrew's team!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 13
The foe's MamoTroll used Icicle Crash!
It's super effective!
Hippowdon lost 198 HP! (47% of its health)

Hippowdon used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Pikapwnd's team!

The sandstorm rages!
Hippowdon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
The foe's MamoTroll used Icicle Crash!
It's super effective!
Hippowdon lost 194 HP! (46% of its health)

Hippowdon used Slack Off!
Hippowdon regained health!

The sandstorm rages!
Hippowdon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
SJCrew called Hippowdon back!
SJCrew sent out Blastoise!
Pointed stones dug into Blastoise!

The foe's MamoTroll used Earthquake!
Blastoise lost 174 HP! (48% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
Blastoise is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Blastoise restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Blastoise is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 16
The foe's MamoTroll used Earthquake!
Blastoise lost 20 HP! (5% of its health)
Blastoise fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
SJCrew: i don't need rapid spin really, none of my team is sr weak :/
SJCrew sent out Cobalion!
Pointed stones dug into Cobalion!

Start of turn 17
Pikapwnd called MamoTroll back!
Pikapwnd sent out TrollCune! (Suicune)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's TrollCune!
The foe's TrollCune is hurt by spikes!

The foe's TrollCune is exerting its Pressure!
Cobalion used Iron Head!
It's not very effective...
The foe's TrollCune lost 13% of its health!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's TrollCune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
SJCrew called Cobalion back!
SJCrew sent out Nidoking!
Pointed stones dug into Nidoking!

The foe's TrollCune is fast asleep!
The foe's TrollCune used Sleep Talk!
The foe's TrollCune used Roar!
Pointed stones dug into Cobalion!
Cobalion was dragged out!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's TrollCune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
Cobalion used Close Combat!
The foe's TrollCune lost 43% of its health!
Cobalion's Defense fell!
Cobalion's Sp. Def. fell!

The foe's TrollCune is fast asleep!
The foe's TrollCune used Sleep Talk!
The foe's TrollCune used Scald!
Cobalion lost 156 HP! (48% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's TrollCune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's TrollCune restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
BlightBringer: why cb
SJCrew: why not
BlightBringer: good?

Start of turn 20
Pikapwnd called TrollCune back!
Pikapwnd sent out ChandeTroll! (Chandelure)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's ChandeTroll!
The foe's ChandeTroll is hurt by spikes!

Cobalion used Close Combat!
It had no effect!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's ChandeTroll is buffeted by the sandstorm!
BlightBringer: can it actually 2hko walls tho
SJCrew: i got tired of focus blast missing and sd has no power
SJCrew: i have not seen an sd cobalion sweep yet
BlightBringer: hey it was pretty good very early uu xp
Pikapwnd: Never happended to me =s
SJCrew: oh i know what to do
SJCrew: i think
SJCrew: lol

Start of turn 21
SJCrew called Cobalion back!
SJCrew sent out Hippowdon!
Pointed stones dug into Hippowdon!

The foe's ChandeTroll used Flamethrower!
Hippowdon lost 223 HP! (53% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's ChandeTroll is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Hippowdon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 22
The foe's ChandeTroll used Flamethrower!
Hippowdon lost 67 HP! (15% of its health)
Hippowdon fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's ChandeTroll is buffeted by the sandstorm!
SJCrew sent out Stoutland!
Pointed stones dug into Stoutland!

Start of turn 23
The foe's ChandeTroll is being sent back!
Stoutland used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
The foe's ChandeTroll lost 44% of its health!
The foe's ChandeTroll fainted!

Pikapwnd called ChandeTroll back!
Pikapwnd sent out MamoTroll! (Mamoswine)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's MamoTroll!
The foe's MamoTroll is hurt by spikes!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 24
SJCrew called Stoutland back!
SJCrew sent out Cobalion!
Pointed stones dug into Cobalion!

The foe's MamoTroll used Earthquake!
It's super effective!
Cobalion lost 108 HP! (33% of its health)
Cobalion fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
SJCrew sent out Stoutland!
Pointed stones dug into Stoutland!

Start of turn 25
The foe's MamoTroll used Ice Shard!
Stoutland lost 81 HP! (26% of its health)

Stoutland used Frustration!
The foe's MamoTroll lost 28% of its health!
The foe's MamoTroll fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Pikapwnd sent out BouffaTroll! (Bouffalant)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's BouffaTroll!
The foe's BouffaTroll is hurt by spikes!

Start of turn 26
Stoutland used Frustration!
The foe's BouffaTroll lost 75% of its health!
The foe's BouffaTroll fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Pikapwnd sent out Trollodos! (Zapdos)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Trollodos!

The foe's Trollodos is exerting its Pressure!

Start of turn 27
Stoutland used Frustration!
The foe's Trollodos lost 75% of its health!
The foe's Trollodos fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Pikapwnd: dang. GG
Pikapwnd sent out TrollCune! (Suicune)
Pointed stones dug into the foe's TrollCune!
The foe's TrollCune is hurt by spikes!
The foe's TrollCune fainted!

SJCrew: GG
Pikapwnd sent out Roserade!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Roserade!
The foe's Roserade is hurt by spikes!

Pikapwnd: Swept hard.

Start of turn 28
Stoutland used Frustration!
The foe's Roserade lost 75% of its health!
The foe's Roserade fainted!

SJCrew won the battle!
SJCrew: gg
Pikapwnd: Trolled.

I'm going to place emphasis again on the fact that normal resists in UU are really not common at all and Stoutland can wreck one of those types on his own. With Sand, however, it is feasible to pack multiple resists to Stoutland, since several of them happen resist Sandstorm. Then you have your opponent's Hippowdon and Stoutland to deal with. Not fun.

Would you be happier if I was suggesting things like Rhyperior/Bisharp/Aggron/Technitop/Sableye/steelix/cobalion/Escavlier?

Yes. Those are good checks and you should be talking about them all the time. The priority and Ghost bit was a complete waste of time. If you didn't want them to be considered options against Stoutland, don't bring them up. As you saw, just having a Ghost, priority, and 'something else that gives Stoutland trouble' is not the way to do it. Using real checks and counters is the only real way to make sure the terrier doesn't own you for life.

I didn't want to draw this debate out so long either, but I'm just tired of half-assed opposing stances that don't even bother to justify themselves. Disagreeing with me good reasoning is better than agreeing with me and really not understanding why. At least one guy knows what he's talking about.

EDIT: I agree with Blastoise being the best spinner in the tier. The best Spiker and spinblocker in the tier is now, unfortunately, Froslass. I will probably have to use those two on every single team now. lol

 

[Heysup]

I'm pretty sure Stoutland was the reason I was #1 for so long. Hint: I didn't use sand. Use CB Rhyperior.

I kill something / set up hazards etc, they send in Stoutland.
I send in Rhyperior, take 30%.
Use Earthquake, 1-2HKO something.

Rinse repeat and your opponent has ~4 dead Pokemon while you have 1. Kill Stoutland with something like Donphan afterwards. Not a very strong attacker to be honest. Only 328 Attack.

 

[SJCrew]

Don't bother telling people to use CB Rhyperior now. I've been saying it for almost two years straight and it's still such a rare sight. 140 base Att, STAB Edgequake and no one is thinking 'kill everything'? Oh right, Stealth Rock and get walled by Suicune...

 

[alexwolf]

Stoutland is just fine in UU.Shit coverage and a mediocre attack stat hold him back big time.

The problem is just that one that SJCrew mentioned.
There were not many normal resists in UU except Ghosts,which are killed by Crunch or Pursuit.I am talking about the pre-Hippo metagame.
People have to understand that now with Hippo in the tier a lot of Stoutlands are going to appear and carrying a Rock or Steel type(or TechTop)is a must.
Rhyperior,Bisharp,Aggron,Technitop,Sableye,Steelix,Cobalion,Escavalier are some pretty good checks/counters that have already been mentioned but i would like to add Regirock,Registeel,Dusclops and Slowbro in the list.

Just give time to the meta to settle down.Solutions to Stoutland have already arrised,it is just that some people feel the pulse of the situation so much later.They want so much time to adapt.

EDIT:Add Aerodactyl to the checks/counters list!

 

[PK Gaming]

Don't bother telling people to use CB Rhyperior now. I've been saying it for almost two years straight and it's still such a rare sight. 140 base Att, STAB Edgequake and no one is thinking 'kill everything'? Oh right, Stealth Rock and get walled by Suicune...

Both you and Heysup are way off base.

Use the manliest Pokemon ever, the mighty Choice Band Aggron.

 

[LMK]

Yes. Those are good checks and you should be talking about them all the time. The priority and Ghost bit was a complete waste of time. If you didn't want them to be considered options against Stoutland, don't bring them up. As you saw, just having a Ghost, priority, and 'something else that gives Stoutland trouble' is not the way to do it. Using real checks and counters is the only real way to make sure the terrier doesn't own you for life.

I agree with the bolded statement and tried to (though reading back it was indirectly) communicate that while discussing other ideas/options. In a competitive community I understand that you dont look for solutions that give you the win some of the time. Personally, I dont mind exploring the sub optimal options as I dont see the harm. I also see how it doesn't help either. Consider drawn out discussion ended.