Metagame NP: RU Stage 16: Criminal (Honchkrow banned)

[atomicllamas]

The latest tier shift and the end of the Durant suspect test mean that it is time for a new NP thread! Given how new the meta is and the addition of some Pokemon which are likely to have a very large impact on the state of the meta game we will be starting with No Suspects. Instead, this thread will be serving a new purpose as a General Metagame Discussion. Sharing your knowledge of the (NEW) Metagame is a great way to get involved and help out the community, and this new thread is just the place to do that. Some things that could be discussed in this thread include:

• New Stage - If there are tier shifts, make some predictions on what the metagame will be like or comment on the changes (after a few days please try to talk about actual meta game experiences and keep theorymonning to a minimum).

• Suspect Testing - If you believe that anything is worthy of a suspect test, post about it and why you think it deserves a suspect test. (nothing will be chosen as a suspect until at least a week in though, if even that).

• Metagame trends - What are the most common or effective strategies? Are there any Pokemon that you think will rise in usage?

• Top threats - What should the main priorities be when considering a team for RU?

• Playstyles - Which are most effective? Are there any that cannot succeed?

• Cores - What are some popular or solid cores? Why do they work so well, and what can be used to beat them?

• Underrated Pokemon - Just because a Pokemon isn't used much doesn't mean its bad! There are plenty of hidden gems scattered throughout low RU, NU, PU, and possibly even Little Cup!

• New sets - If you have a unique set that you've had success with recently, share it!

Be sure to keep this discussion as civil as possible, as always.

And remember to enjoy this tier and only think about current suspects if the meta turns out to suck.

tier shifts

we got: Honchkrow

we lost: Amoonguss and Quagsire

sorry for late but I was at work

NP Song:

**In case this wasn't clear, do not shitpost. Avoid one liners and simple questions in this thread, as well as making lists of damage calculations. Low quality posts are subject to be deleted and/or infracted.

 

[Twixtry]

Man I can't wait to play with Honchkrow in ru, that thing is gonna be crazy. I doesn't really have any good switch-ins with the right moveset, and it will be very hard to stop once it gets up a moxie or two. It will be S or A+ for sure.
Quagsire being gone won't change much, as quagsire wasn't really relevant in ru in the first place (Best sweeper being a grass type etc.)
Amoonguss being gone will make Virizion even stronger, although I'm still happy it's gone. It was just such a pain to deal with. I don't think it will change too much else, as even with Amoonguss gone the meta is still very harsh against electric types for example, so I don't expect those to suddenly become popular.

 

[EonX]

Honchkrow @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive / Rash
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Steel / Nasty Plot
- Sucker Punch / Brave Bird

So remember those switch-ins for physical Krow? Yeah, just throw them away here. Seriously, RU is so short on special walls it's ridiculous. The first three moves are pretty mandatory for Krow and teams have literally one switch-in; and it depends on the 3rd move that's used. Dark Pulse rips into Bronzong and can 2HKO Rhyperior with some chip damage. Heat Wave pushes damage on Registeel and ensures that it gets 3HKOed without question. Catching it with a Dark Pulse will throw it into 2HKO range the next time it comes in. HP Steel easily 2HKOes Diancie and will weaken it at the very least for something else to take advantage of. Nasty Plot is a fine alternative if you want Honchkrow to push through Alomomola as Dark Pulse misses out on the 2HKO after Stealth Rock, but it will be left unable to deal with Diancie. Sucker Punch gives Krow a priority move that's still p. damn strong off of base 125 Attack (and possibly backed by Moxie) and Brave Bird allows Krow to fill a pure wallbreaking role. Life Orb should be used with Sucker Punch while EBelt is advised with Brave Bird. As far as the nature goes, Rash allows Honchkrow to get many more kills, but Naive can let it outspeed positive-natured Hoopa. Naive should undoubtedly be used if Sucker Punch is not on the set. Moxie is the main ability on this set as it allows Honchkrow's form of priority to get a boost if it gets a KO, making it much harder to revenge kill. Super Luck and Insomnia have niche uses on the set. Insomnia can let Honchkrow switch into sleep inducers, but this isn't as important with Amoonguss out of the tier. Super Luck is even more situational, but does boost the power of critical hits. That said, Moxie is easily the most reliable ability as it will usually get use every battle, even with the special-based set. Also, as a whole, Honchkrow is going to want a + Speed nature, if only for Hoopa.

Wanted to requote my last post in the previous NP thread as a pivot into a core discussion with Honchkrow, in particular, the set I posted there.

Honchkrow + Fletchinder: Special Krow pretty much destroys every sturdy Fletch check there is in the tier and does an amazing job of luring them in. Similar things can be said of Braviary as well.

Honchkrow + Venusaur: Combine these two, and there are very few Pokemon that can handle them. Special Honchkrow (and Honchkrow in general) struggles with Alomomola due to not quite having enough power (special set unless NP) or committing suicide in order to break it (physical) Venusaur can also handle Fairy- and Electric-type moves aimed at Honkrow while Psychic-types are not as willing to use their STAB moves with Honchkrow waiting in the back.

Honchkrow + Jolteon: In particular, SubPass Jolteon can give Honchkrow a much easier time getting into battle by giving it a buffer against any attack. Krow can then proceed to dismantle the opposing team with its powerful attacks, possibly with a Sub in tact if it's lucky. Don't expect the latter part tho as Jolteon has a low HP stat and Honchkrow's defenses are very poor. Volt Switch and U-turn users in general will be helpful to get Krow into battle more easily.

slurmz and I had a couple of practice battles with Krow since the ladder isn't updated yet with me using this exact special set in the battles:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-370231247 - In this one, I get Honchkrow in early and take advantage of a lack of reliance on physical moves to drop 2 Pokemon and weaken a 3rd in the face of a burn user that's deathly afraid of Sucker Punch. Jolteon's low HP and Krow's low defenses kinda got exposed with Hex breaking the Sub vs Krow lmao

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-370245221 - Instead of wallbreaking, Honchkrow cleans after Braviary mowed down Mawile and Jolteon removed Qwilfish and broke Sawk's Sturdy. Got a little lucky with a flinch vs Kabutops, but the max Special Attack investment lets me finish with Sucker Punch after hitting Virizion on the switch. Regardless, I put slurmz in a rough spot as soon as I broke Sawk's Sturdy since his Flying checks were physically defensive and Krow was special-based.

 

[eren]

I'll go over physical honch

criminal (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Steel Wing / Pursuit / Roost

this is what will be the more common set probably. extremely powerful and can punish switches of psychics with pursuit, beat down bird counters with superpower or steel wing, or try to stay relatively healthy with roost.

cores:

honch + hw + spikes

sets

Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Mesprit @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Healing Wish
- Psychic
- Stealth Rock

Garbodor (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Haze

neato lil core that focuses on wearing down the opponent, clicking some moves with honcher, and then reviving it later with a nice healing wish. pair with some voltturn and physical wall lures.

honch hazard control

sets

Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 148 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar

Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Refresh
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin

focuses more on hazard control and making sure honch came come in on a clean field. pair with fighting resists, possible voltturn / momentum gainers, possible spikes, and maybe even scarf mesprit could be a neat lil option here.

/

physical lure honch + bu braviary or sd fletch

sets

criminal (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Steel Wing

Braviary @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 168 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird

another bird spam but more focused on helping bulk up braviary sweep. steel wing + superpower nails every single bu braviary counter and chunks them hard (I.e registeel, diancie, lix, etc). pair with hazards, elec resist, hazard control, possible hw. fletch is also an option because it has similar checks to braviary.

 

[Miyami~~]

View attachment 61784
"Insolence? We are Pirates! We don't even know what that word means! Open fire!" - Hondo Ohnaka
Whenever I see Honchkrow I think of the space pirate from Star Wars, The Clone Wars.3

Hondo (Honchkrow) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Heat Wave / Roost

So I ended up playing some games with Drapionswing where I would try to use Honchkrow to sweep his various teams. Ultimately, in five games I managed to knock out at least half his team... once. After I SD Passed to it with Mawile. From my games, I can conclude that Honchkrow is fearsome to any team once it gets a few attack boosts, but it has trouble successfully starting to sweep. I can find a few reasons for this:

1) Honchkrow doesn't have quite the power to OHKO certain threats at full, and needs prior damage at +0.
2) Honckrow's speed tier sits in the overcrowded base 70-80 realm, meaning it often has to click Sucker Punch to score a KO.

Both of these are unfortunate flaws with Honchkrow, which, combined with being worn down by Brave Bird / Life Orb limits Honchkrow's overall survivability. Because of these, I don't think it's broken or worth suspecting yet.

EDIT: Have a replay http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-370200494
And a Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/AtmEKhkq

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Honchkrow really looks like an interesting addition to RU tbh, and I think it has a lot of potential to be a top tier threat. The classic MurderKrow set that's been used in UU will probably be what'll see the most usage, the classic LO Moxie with Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, and Superpower, along with an option such as Steel Wing, Pursuit, or Roost, which make it a fearsome revenge killer, wallbreaker, and cleaner. Sucker Punch is in itself pretty dangerous coming from Honchkrow, and Brave Bird and Superpower hit hard as fuck too. EonX's set seems like an interesting approach to using Honch and could make for a decent lure set, particularly to Honch's counters. It's got extremely good coverage and hits really hard which makes it a huge threat to any playstyle, and Moxie is just icing on the cake. Nasty Plot is also kind of funny to have. Though with the mechanics of Sucker Punch, and Honch being frail and somewhat slow, it'll have to rely a lot on mindgames like Absol does. It's also kind of suicidal since Brave Bird and LO wear it down immensely, and it's weak to Rocks.

Overall Honchkrow looks like a really interesting new dropdown into RU. I think it'll be a metagame top threat without a doubt (it was the king of BW1 RU for the record, and that was before Moxie was legal with shit like Superpower), though some aspects of it might be able to make it manageable for now. But it'll be cool to see how things roll with Honch around.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Call me crazy if you like but here's a really weird mon that looks like it'll work well with krow.

Although it's a defensive mon ferroseed provides extremely useful hazards with both stealth rocks and spikes, a resistance to rock (ttrums head smash)/electric/fairy, as well a speed control with t wave. I'm definitely gonna try this myself when the ladder updates since I can could very well be completely wrong. However I just wanted to give this a mention since it seems pretty interesting. Obviously krow can take on fighting types (albeit shakily) while also getting moxie boosts much easier with the entry hazard damage racking up.

 

[DaKakz]

Why are people having a boner for Tauros lately when there is already Ambipom (who sucks) that can do anything that Tauros wants to do but better ??
Ambipom's Low Kick does more to MSteelix than Tauros's Fire Blast, not to mention Ambipom's moves are 100% accurate and is faster sitting at 115 speed compared to Tauros's 110 speed.

I seriously cannot think of a single reason to use Tauros over it... (Ambipom also has Pursuit just like Tauros, but it also has Knock Off to deal with ghost types unlike Tauros who cannot touch most of them)

 

[Take Azelfie]

Why are people having a boner for Tauros lately when there is already Ambipom (who sucks) that can do anything that Tauros wants to do but better ??
Ambipom's Low Kick does more to MSteelix than Tauros's Fire Blast, not to mention Ambipom's moves are 100% accurate and is faster sitting at 115 speed compared to Tauros's 110 speed.

I seriously cannot think of a single reason to use Tauros over it... (Ambipom also has Pursuit just like Tauros, but it also has Knock Off to deal with ghost types unlike Tauros who cannot touch most of them)

Tauros has a lot more coverage than ambipom (hitting Garbodor and Diancie for example) as well as still being in a speed tier that outpaces almost everything it needs. Not to mention Ambipom can only boost its Fake Out while Tauros pretty much gives itself a boost to almost all of its attacks and remove the Life Orb recoil.

 

[Drangonn.]

Honestly, I think Honchkrow is 100% best used on balance. I cooked up a team really quickly with it, and it just works so well with a lot of defensive and offensive mons. Seismitoad, Medicham, Virizion, Dugtrio, you name it, this thing fits with it. Pursuit is also a really nice option, as it literally JUST outspends all of those frail base 70's and pummels them to heel and back. For example, I had the honor of playing esteemed user DrapionSwing, and he had nothing for Medicham+Honchkrow. It works really efficiently, with the coverage to break down anything to stand up to it.

One issue I see with it, though, is 4MSS. For example, Superpower or Heat Wave? Pursuit or Roost? Aside from obligatory STAB, two slots are left, and about 5 other moves to choose from. This pretty much means that something will inevitably counter it.

Honestly, though, there are so few safe counters. Finding out what its moves are can result in casualty, and as such maybe even the game. This makes Honchkrow more complex than clicking Sucker Punch; conservative playing, on both sides, is 100% needed.

Something else about how playing with Honchkrow is the number of 50/50's it induces. Should I Pursuit? Superpower? Sucker? It takes a lot of thinking to win 50/50's, and that just adds to Honchkrow's complexity.

Honchkrow is a really interesting drop, and I'm exicted to see how it plays out in the future.

 

[EonX]

Ok, so I know that Honchkrow is the shiny new toy we're all definitely going to have fun with (or nightmares about LOL) but I do want to get into some Pokemon that stand to benefit from Amoonguss going to OU as it was a pretty solid stop to certain Pokemon in the tier:

Sceptile is a pretty underrated Pokemon with its great Speed tier, above average Special Attack, and powerful STAB Leaf Storm. To put in perspective, Sceptile's Leaf Storm is actually marginally stronger than Venusaur. Focus Blast allows Sceptile to pressure Registeel on the switch, which is something Venusaur simply can't do anything with while HP Flying lets Sceptile revenge kill Virizion after a CC spdef drop or a little bit of chip damage. Sceptile can also opt for Rock Slide to bop Fletch and KO Sigilyph and Delphox after they switch into Leaf Storm if your team is weak to those threats. Of course, Sceptile usually has the freedom to run Giga Drain in its last slot, which allows it to clean up late-game after it punches holes with Leaf Storm early-game. It still has quite a few issues, not the least of which being it's super frail for a Grass-type, meaning you'll need to find a different Water and Ground resist.

We haven't heard much from Hitmonlee lately, and while the Reckless set may not care much one way or the other for Amoonguss leaving, the Scarf set certainly gets a huge buff from Amoonguss leaving as it could simply eat up Scarf Lee's hits for days. Reckless sets have to run Jolly these days to stay ahead of all the base 75 / 80 threats, but it can still easily run dual priority for great utility on top of being a wallbreaker and the Scarf set becomes a much more reliable revenge killer that can also very easily use Rapid Spin now since it doesn't need to waste a moveslot to make sure Amoonguss can't stop it from cleaning late-game.

This Pokemon just seems to keep getting better and better. The SpDef AV set has easily been the way to go, but it let Amoonguss in for absolutely free. Now it just gets even better as some teams will probably look to Tangrowth to fulfill some of the defensive roles Amoonguss filled (Electric check, pivot, general annoyer) I still don't think PhysDef Tangrowth is going to be that useful considering most of the tier's top attackers are special attackers, but you never know.

 

[Umbra Soul]

So, gain Honchkrow, lose Amoonguss, and I guess Quaggy (not that big a loss anyway). Weird, half of me is ecstatic that Amoonguss is gone, and that I for the foreseeable future don't have to actually deal with fighting what seemed like lazy teambuilding in just slap an Amoon + Alo + something like Steelix on a team, throw in a breaker or something like Tomb or Cleric role out there, call it a team, and just play the wall/let's just rely on some kind of hax game to happen. Actually turned me away from RU for a while. On the other hand, the other half of me already can feel the wave of possible aids that Honch might, well WILL likely bring by just existing on the opposite team, especially a mixed set. Though there are things it can't OHKO, predicting just the sheer fact that it's capable of making 50/50s with Sucker, leading towards more freedom to fake with an auxiliary move on a switch will make playing around it to some degree pretty annoying to deal with in the metagame, especially when certain combinations are settled into with it. But, for now it's just gonna be a feel the process out that Honch probably won't be making too much of an immediate impact what with things like Diancie + Alomomola cores around, and it likely having a short life span in a match, that it might be a while before it's real potential gets showcased.

Kind of wished a few more toys would have fallen, but should be a fun meta to actually test some more stuff in, especially without easy peasy mushroom gone (finally).

 

[Drapionswing]

Medicham @ Life Orb
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch
- Bullet Punch

Well I was looking it over and a mon I see becoming very good mon to pair with physical honchkrow is medicham.


Medicham's strong wallbreaking power allows it to pressure most honchkrow checks such as Rhyperior or Diancie. It's insane power can also allow it to weaken teams for honch to just click sucker or brave bird and get +1 and begin to just sweep up late game. Cham's bullet punch is also nice for other honchkrows as it can potentially revenge kill honchkrows however:

Calc

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO[/=hide]

This causes two insane 50/50's in which you need to win to beat a full hp honchkrow, so if you're not human then you're good.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Well, here's an... interesting Honchkrow set I've come up with.

Honchkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing
- Brave Bird
- Superpower

With most Honchkrow sets being physically biased, I'm surprised nobody's thought of a Choice Band set. Sucker Punch hits Psychic-types and Ghost-types super effectively, but it's not a very good move to be locked into. Steel wing OHKO's Diancie (physically defensive sets have a 75% chance to live the attack), who walls this set otherwise. Brave Bird is probably the move you should lock Honchkrow into, as it hits stupidly hard and lets Krow break past many common walls such as Tangrowth. And lastly, Superpower is there so Mega Steelix doesn't wall this set. Moxie is obviously the preferred ability as it lets Honchkrow get progressively stronger during the match, enabling it to sweep late-game. It also let Honchkrow get rid of any Attack drops from Superpower.

Also, that crappy NP song was chosen over Smooth Criminal by Michael Jackson. I don't know what else to say.

 

[Drangonn.]

Well, here's an... interesting Honchkrow set I've come up with.

Honchkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing
- Brave Bird
- Superpower

With most Honchkrow sets being physically biased, I'm surprised nobody's thought of a Choice Band set. Sucker Punch hits Psychic-types and Ghost-types super effectively, but it's not a very good move to be locked into. Steel wing OHKO's Diancie (physically defensive sets have a 75% chance to live the attack), who walls this set otherwise. Brave Bird is probably the move you should lock Honchkrow into, as it hits stupidly hard and lets Krow break past many common walls such as Tangrowth. And lastly, Superpower is there so Mega Steelix doesn't wall this set. Moxie is obviously the preferred ability as it lets Honchkrow get progressively stronger during the match, enabling it to sweep late-game. It also let Honchkrow get rid of any Attack drops from Superpower.

Also, that crappy NP song was chosen over Smooth Criminal by Michael Jackson. I don't know what else to say.

Banded Krow is an interesting option but it's not very effective. However, with the abundance of defensive pokemon that can easily take advantage of being locked into Sucker Punch is huge, and giving setup oppurtunities to the largest offensive threat in the tier, Virizion, is not really that great. It can easily be taken advatage of, which is why LO is generally a superior option.

I agree about that NP song, though. Lost oppurtunity.

Something that I've been trying out is Honchkrow+Dugtrio. It traps Virizion, weakens steelix, and lays the hurt on Diancie with Earthquake. They weaken each others checks and counters for the other to sweep reliably, and it's a great partner for it.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Banded Krow is an interesting option but it's not very effective. However, with the abundance of defensive pokemon that can easily take advantage of being locked into Sucker Punch is huge, and giving setup oppurtunities to the largest offensive threat in the tier, Virizion, is not really that great. It can easily be taken advatage of, which is why LO is generally a superior option.

Which is exactly what I said Sucker Punch was a bad move to be locked into. If it's that much of an issue, I'd suggest running Night Slash instead. It's a bit weak and lacks priority, but it's probably the most reliable Dark-type move Honchkrow can use.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Gonna do a set dump here

MegaNette

Black Magic (Banette-Mega) (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Destiny Bond

Honestly I don't think you should even bother with STAB. Gunk Shot has good coverage against Fairy-types which are typically a Dark resist which also helps Hitmonlee, the Fighting-type I most commonly pair with MegaNette, plow through the opponent. Sucker Punch and Knock Off are also great powerful options to since its coming off almost 500 attack. Destiny Bond is predictable as hell but you can't completely disregard its existence as one false play means dropping a Pokemon. This thing gets too much crap for being obvious and having a bad STAB but I feel like everyone still over exaggerates the situation (am I saying this is a good mon you put on teams commonly no)
I saw Based Honker use this set and I actually like this a lot more than the current analysis set so shoutouts to him

Scyther

Kaze (Scyther) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Knock Off
- Pursuit / Bug Bite / Quick Attack

MFW Pinsir is getting more hype than this. Scyther does have less power and a bigger weakness to Stealth Rocks but this is still more worth it. You have U-turn, Flying STAB, Pursuit and better bulk. I use this on teams that need a Fighting check and an answer to Psychic-types. Oh and it also outspeeds Delphox which is always nice.

Psywave is good @-@

Mechanical Chime (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Psywave
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic

I saw Kush bring this up in the NBT thread and I thought the idea was pretty solid. Now I have fallen in love with Psywave on Bronzong as it puts in so much chip damage against Mega Steelix and as long as a Dark-type isn't coming in something is going to lose a chunk of there health. I still prefer Registeel but sometimes the ground immunity is nice.

Belt

Nothing but Cinder (Emboar) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
- Sucker Punch

BeltBoar is extremely nice right now since being a powerful wallbreaker with the advantage of priority, Fire resist, and good coverage gives it a useful niche. If I'm being honest all Emboar variants are extremely good at the moment. I also like using it as if it was scarfed or band to bluff the and beat double switches with a good prediction.

Mixed

Lon'qu (Samurott) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet

When you reveal Hydro Pump people think special, when you reveal Megahorn people think Physical. This can allow Samurott to beat a lot of its common switch ins like hitting Tangrowth with Megahorn, Venusaur with Ice Beam, Scarf Delphox trying to revenge kill. It catches a lot of people off guard and is personally the best way to run Samurott atm.

Better EVs

Alaska Freights (Abomasnow) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 84 Atk / 172 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast

This EV spread is the one I use for one of my favorite teams right now. 80 EVs makes it so Ice Shard has a 62.5% chance to kill offensive Flygon with Ice Shard. The means that after LO they will always die or you can just straight out kill them with Ice Shard. Kind of strange but I feel that risking it sometimes especially if it means removing there Fire / Ground resist. Also they will be less tempted to stay in to meaning you can play some serious mind games.

 

[Drangonn.]

Which is exactly what I said Sucker Punch was a bad move to be locked into. If it's that much of an issue, I'd suggest running Night Slash instead. It's a bit weak and lacks priority, but it's probably the most reliable Dark-type move Honchkrow can use.

This completely defeats Honchkrow's premier purpose, to wreck offensive teams that lack fast wisp users. Any move can be taken advantage of on this set, which is why itis subpar.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Okay, I feel like there's some odd stuff about Honch running around, so I thought I'd give my thoughts. Referencing what drangonn said, I don't see Honch as too much of an anti offense mon despite how good of a sucker punch user it is. I could never use banded crow because of that- Krow's coverage is far too good and being locked into sucker is bad.

I honestly don't like honchkrow at all, not because it's bad or anything (it's not) but because of what it's already becoming. While we can adapt to it, and I'm sure we will to an extent, Honchkrow tends to just turn any game that it's in into a really, really luck based game to to he ungodly amount of 50/50s it causes. Really, I've never seen a Pokemon that causes more, not even bisharp in OU. The combination of Sucker Punch+Moxie as well as the obscene power of brave bird means that much more is on the line than a mere KO: That 50/50 can often mean the entire game due to moxie boosts, which is really unfortunate in my opinion, as I really hate games being decided by 50/50s. I'm not calling for a ban because I'm not allowed to do that, but I do think hat honchkrow makes the metagame worse by forcing a ton of these situations. I suppose that this is coming from someone who tends to lose 50/50s a lot when it comes to sucker punch shenanigans, but I still think that this makes the game a little less fair, or at least less skill based.

 

[Senpai D.M]

A mon I feel has gotten a lot better recently is Sneasel. Its underrated i feel because its so frail and slowly dies to recoil but don't overlook these flaws. It has a p good speed tier, knock off stab, priority in ice shard and pursuit trapper. Pursuit trapping is still p big rn and it makes sneasel quite better and it scares Honchkrow atm :)

 

[Martin]

With Amoonguss gone, this set has been a reasonably fun substitute:

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow / Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis

The loss of Regen sucks and it faces extremely heavy competition from Tangrowth, but its Poison typing combined with its higher special bulk allows it to set itself apart reasonably well. Its nothing spectacular, and offensive is defnitely better, but its functional. The given EVs allow Venusaur to take an unboosted Acrobatics from Fletchinder after Stealth Rock in order to get off a Sludge Bomb versus it and the rest is dumped into SpD to bolster its bulk. There's probably a better spread but I honestly can't be bothered to spend hours doing calcs and looking at speed tiers to find a more optimal one. Leech Seed allows for Cheese™.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

Ok, I'm gonna post some mons that can handle Honchkrow/ check it as of right now:

Fighting-types, you say? But they're weak to Brave Bird! Luckily, that doesn't matter, since these guys can outrun Honchkrow and KO it (I haven't done calcs, though, so I may be wrong) and they also resist Sucker Punch, which is probably the most important part. Obviously, these guys can't switch in unless it's off a U-turn or Baton Pass OR if you're REALLY good at predictions; however, these Pokemon offer a means of revenge killing Honchkrow if / when things get tight.

Sneasel and Mega Glalie are also decent revenge killers for Honchkrow because they can outrun Honchkrow and Ice Shard it before it can use Sucker Punch. Both of them KO after rocks, from my experience.

Tyrantrum can take Brave Birds and Sucker Punches for dayyyyyys and also nukes Honchkrow with any of its STAB moves. Speaking of Tyrantrum, it's only gotten better since it was kept in the tier: this guy is a secret weapon. The Choice Scarf set still gives offense NIGHTMARES and Honchkrow's drop has increased the usage of offensive teams. I don't think he's suspect worthy, I never thought he should be banned when the suspect was happening, BUT this guy is something you gotta prepare for.

Okay, so these are some of Honchkrow's best checks right here. I say checks, because Honchkrow doesn't HAVE counters and also, Alomomola is the only one with reliable recovery (+1 Brave Bird still does a lot to it, though, maybe a fully physically defensive EV spread will see a rise on Alomomola again??). You'll also notice that all of them except Mola carry Stealth Rock, which is key to defeating Honchkrow imo. Facing a Honchkrow with rocks up is manageable, but facing one with good hazard support is rather frightening.

Uh, well, when I was first making this post I had set out to prove that there are answers to Honchkrow, but I think I accidentally ended up showing that Honchkrow has no reliable defensive answers and not many more offensive ones. If I'm being honest I haven't had any trouble with Honchkrow on the RU ladder, but I could see people making arguments that Honchkrow could be suspected. I personally don't think it should be suspected because rockers are on every team and Fighting-types are on almost every team so some teams are just naturally prepared for it. Then again, I'd need to play with Krow and against Krow a bit more to decide, but for now I'd say no to banning Honchkrow.

Also, quick mention because I have to get off the computer now, but Musharna should be looked at more in RU. Running a set of Calm Mind, Psyshock, Moonlight, and Baton Pass or Signal Beam with Colbur Berry makes for a really neat pivot into Fighting-types, and Baton Pass allows you to switch into a teammate that can handle, say, Dark-types or Escavalier. Running a Dugtrio with Musharna is golden. Not a meta-defining threat but I think it should be used more.

 

[ProfessorMasterChief]

Ok, so with my experiences both playing with and watching Honchkrow in action, I find that it always does one of these two things:

1. It massacres the opposing team, either sweeping or breaking it down for another sweeper, and generally dominating the match

2. It does jack shit, and I sack it

While Honchkrow can be brutal, switching it in is not exactly easy, and it also gets worn down incredibly quickly, and its speed makes it too slow to outspeed a lot of things, and too fast for trick room. I've found that the best teams it fits on are volt-turn teams, as they allow it to switch in and start killing things.

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit/Roost

This is the bread and butter MurderKrow set, and it, like its name says, murders things. I usually run Adamant for the power, put Jolly can be used to creep positive natured Emboar, Hoopa (not that it enjoys taking a sucker punch), and Magneton, and neutral natured Venusaur, Gallade, Medicham, and Absol.

Manectric @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Mantric is a very good team mate, as it can heavily cripple Steelix and Registeel, break Alomomola, Krow's biggest problem, and has enough speed to put a lot of offensive mons into range of sucker punch, allowing Honchkrow to break through, and it provides volt switch support. I'm honestly surprised people don't use this or prepare for this, the amount of team it can dismantle is amazing

Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Def / 28 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Bird spam. Fletch and Krow share very similar checks and counters, except that Fletch decimates offence, and Krow is difficult for bulky teams to handle. They can easily overwhelm the opposing team, and if they just slapped on Steelix and called it a day, the opponent can easily find themselves overwhelmed

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Not necessarily a team mate for Honchkrow, but Sceptile is pretty cool. This set was used by Emvee in a video, and I thought it was pretty cool. It out speeds the large majority of the tier, and it can do a good amount of damage, especially against frail teams. Its leaf storm is more powerful than Venusaur's and chunks a lot the tier for some good damage. It has good coverage all around, and it's a lot of fun, and I'd recommend trying it out.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

I'm just saying, I've seen a LOT of damn Registeels lately. I think people are finally starting to see Registeel's potential as a rocker and a special wall. This thing is going to start having a bit more influence in RU, and I think it Registeel will start to trigger some meta trends; SubCM Meloetta and SubBU Braviary might see some more usage, as well as Ground-type rockers such as Rhyperior and Seismitoad. I've also noticed that hazard removal is literally on EVERY team: whether it's Flygon, Blastoise, or even Hitmontop, people just seem to want those hazards gone. Just some trends I've noticed going on.

 

[atomicllamas]

Council is gonna do a quick vote on Honchkrow over the next few days (just FYI), if you want to express your opinion on whether or not you find Honchkrow to be broken / balanced / etc. feel free to do so in this thread.