Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Oculars]

First of all on tera, I feel its definitely up for debate. Having an entire new type added to the mechanic along with an entirely new metagame means we can reconsider tera as it stands, not as it existed 5 months ago when it was a different mechanic. See for example mega metagross in gen8 natdex ou: the mon was quickbanned less than 2 months after a suspect test to ban it resulted in DNB. New metas mean tiering action can be reconsidered even if it failed in old metas. Old suspect tests should have nothing to do with whether we consider Terastalization for a test since the mechanic was inherently different and stellar didnt exist. Due to the changes terastalization should be the first thing considered for tiering action in the new meta.

A majority of the general community barely smaller than a super-majority has always been against Tera, out of the highest level players its a clear supermajority. The pro ban side also has all the logical arguments on their side as there's like 0 good DNB arguments. Council knows that if they put tera on a tiering survey it would come out with a 4/5 which is why they're scared to do so ever since the last suspect test.

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

Saying that nothing happened is just factually wrong, in fact they resulted on exactly what was requested by the community, which is a suspect test. What's the point of running suspect tests if you just run them again and again until you get the outcome you agree with? Yes, sometimes a lot of people disagree with the outcome of a suspect test: that's something expected. Is it a reason to overthrow the suspect? Absolutely not.

Thinking the tier is not fixable as long as Tera is around is also a complete myth. You have to realize that every tera abuser isn't equally strong, and that the metagame did improve every time a tiering action was taken. Think about the mons that were complained about right before the dlc2: Tapu Lele, Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-Wellspring and Gliscor. Of course, Tera has a lot to do with them feeling overwhelming, but they pale in comparison to other stupid tera abusers we had before (Sneasler, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Kingambit, Ogerpon-Hearthflame... or even stuff like shedinja or espathra lol).

I do wish Tera was gone, and I did vote Ban in both suspect tests, but people voted to keep it, and there is no point to the suspect system if we do not respect its result. Yes, you can argue that one side had better arguments than the other, but realistically that's not a reason to redo a vote lol. As long as you make the effort to get the reqs, you can vote for whatever side you want, by following an actual reasoning or not, or just by flipping a coin, no one will control you unless you want to make a repeat of the XY shadow tag suspect test drama, and this is something that you will have to accept with any voting system.


Two things:
-If you didn't vote because you were lazy, then you have no right to complain : it's honestly kind of astonishing to me to see this reason being mentioned: every single vote count, and you should never rely on others doing the work for you. I won't develop much more since any close suspect you can think of is a good proof of that.
-With how much NatDex expanded as a format, I can guarantee you that what happens in the forums is not representative of the entire NatDex playerbase, which is the actual reason why the second tera suspect did not result in a ban supermajority in the first place. A significant part of the playerbase does not interact with the forums, either because they are just not aware of what forums are for, because of the language barrier, or just by lack of time/interest/whatever.

1. To try and ban something that is potentially uncompetitive for the metagame. I do not understand how we are disrespecting the results of previous tests - they have been respected by everyone playing in a tera metagame for a year. I see no problem with a third suspect test sometime in the future (perhaps in late spring/early summer so we have more time to notify the wider community as well as gauge how the mechanic affects the new post-DLC metagame for both sides to develop their arguments) as long as the mechanic has points of contention.

2. Yes, and this is why a bunch of my countrymen who despise terastallisation rushed to me complaining about how they were completely blindsided by the second terastallisation suspect test because they had no idea how Smogon tiering worked. The wider community is not some pro-mechanic monolith nor a tera-hating horde, it has a balanced mix of people who prioritise different things.

 

[The N@me User]

the problem with a suspect RN is that it's ways too early.

I feel as though if the Council were open to a third Suspect and not outright disapproving of it, a lot of people would be calmer about the situation, and the general idea of waiting.

 

[thebestever543]

1. To try and ban something that is potentially uncompetitive for the metagame. I do not understand how we are disrespecting the results of previous tests - they have been respected by everyone playing in a tera metagame for a year. I see no problem with a third suspect test sometime in the future (perhaps in late spring/early summer so we have more time to notify the wider community as well as gauge how the mechanic affects the new post-DLC metagame for both sides to develop their arguments) as long as the mechanic has points of contention.

2. Yes, and this is why a bunch of my countrymen who despise terastallisation rushed to me complaining about how they were completely blindsided by the second terastallisation suspect test because they had no idea how Smogon tiering worked. The wider community is not some pro-mechanic monolith nor a tera-hating horde, it has a balanced mix of people who prioritise different things.

Both great points. National Dex is quite a diverse community. People play this tier for various reasons and shouldn’t be portrayed as some hive mind like some try to illustrate. I’m certainly guilty of blaming the community for the problems but ultimately it’s not helping National Dex nor advancing the conversation in the tier. I think we can all agree tera is extremely controversial. We’ve had two very close suspect test and both were very disappointing for a lot of people. There have been developments in the tier since the second suspect that might justify a third suspect. It is understandable why this would feel wrong to do but ultimately if the tier is in a state where the condition of the tier is drastically weighed down because of a game changing mechanic I believe it’s justified to consider a third suspect test. Normally I would be against the idea but I have mentioned there have been developments since the last suspect. The first development is obvious to everyone. A new tera form. It is not broken like we anticipated but the last thing this tier needs is an additional factor to the mechanic that was already very much undesirable. The next reason which may or may not be fair is the additional Pokémon banned because of tera. We could nearly make an entire tier out of everything that has been banned to try to make this impossible mechanic function in a healthy meta. This tier has never been healthy. Generation 9 National Dex has ALWAYS been in a state in need of constant tiering action. Even prior to dlc, Tapu Lele and Valiant have been overwhelming and have been under close watch by the council and community members. Whenever we ban something broken, something else takes its place and the culprit and reasoning for the Pokémon getting banned is almost always tera.

 

[Jônatas Braz]

Tera stellar contrary mons have been super underwhelming for me. Serp just doesnt really get enough out of spamming it given how much it needs the repeated +2 boosts to do actual damage(tera fire/ground with the other hidden power is probably better), and enamorus is still pretty easy to wall out or rkill at the least. Also there is a 0% chance a complex ban is ever getting passed, its more likely that (if this strategy was at all broken) we would just ban serp and enam.

Agreed. Serperior still need some rounds to actually do stuff, even with Tera. Biggest threat still beeing Glare

ban Glare, please

 

[Epicgamergod69]

Agreed. Serperior still need some rounds to actually do stuff, even with Tera. Biggest threat still beeing Glare

ban Glare, please

What no do not ban glare what
Even if serp is unhealthy (it's not broken)
We shouldnt just ban glare.. oh ye at that point let's ban twave too... So real!

 

[Jônatas Braz]

What no do not ban glare what
Even if serp is unhealthy (it's not broken)
We shouldnt just ban glare.. oh ye at that point let's ban twave too... So real!

Yep, what i said is not sarcasm. Not at all

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Sun got new toys, so you know the drill...

As the certified National Dex Sun Expert here (Yeah, that is clearly a Title that I didn't made up) I can tell some of you might wondering my toughts on Great Neck(Raging Bolt) and Gorgeous Fire(Gouging Fire). And im pretty sure some of you are also wondering if these are going to make a repeat of the past, as showned in Ogerpon-Heartflame, Walking Wake, Roaring Moon and Flutter Mane. To answer that, lets dive into these ones shall we?



Perhaps the one the people are rising an eyebrow to atm. Gouging Fire imo feels like a slightly weaker and slower version of Ogerpon Heartflame, but in return, it has much more bulk. 115 atk is nice (Funny enough, same as Entei's) and 91 speed, while not very impressive, can be played around with options in its toolkit, mainly Dragon Dance and Scale Shot. This in combination with its good offensive stab combo can be pretty dangerous on its own right. Funny enough, you wouldn't want to be using Flare Blitz on Gouging Fire, since it has a weight of 590k. And... why does that matter? Well it means that it's Heat Crashes deal 120 base power due to that same weight, meaning that it has a Flare Blitz without the drawback of recoil, very scary indeed. It also has Earthquake for coverage, Outrage for a Dragonium Z nuke should you desire to go that route, and even has a great recovery option in Morning Sun, which can give u more health under sun, where you are mainly going to run it. And speaking of longevity, it has quite an impressive bulk, with 105 hp and a high defense stat of 121 and a decent special defense stat of 93, Gouging Fire is quite the hit taker, making it harder to take down without some serious power behind it. Some potential sets include a Dragon Dance + Scale Shot set, a Choice Band set, or... if you wanna be that one guy, defensive set with its sig, Burning Balwark, a Protect that burns on contact(do this last set i wouldnt recomend it on Sun, maybe on Stall) But there is a flaw on Gorgeous Fire, its typing is pretty meager defensively, so even do it can take neutral hits well, its weakeness are rather simple to exploit, mainly its weakness to Earthquake and Stealth Rock. With that said however, it has a lot of potential to really take over the metagame, do not 100% banworthy atm, it is a mon that should be keeped an eye on.


Now for Great Neck, this one isn't seeing nearly as much play as Gorgeous Fire, however, this doesn't mean it's a terrible pokemon. On the contrary, this mon has a pretty interesting niche for a Sun team. Now its not very fast at 75 speed, but it does have its Sig Thunderclap to help with that, which is an Eletric Special version of Sucker Punch. Also, being this slow also makes it a pretty valuble slow pivot, which that alone is pretty valuable for sun teams in order to bring your sweepers safely. And what's even more impressive its that special attack of 137. And with access to Draco Meteor and a potential Spatk boost from Protosynthesis, it can not only be a slow pivot, but a wallbreaker as well. While most Ground types can prey on a Volt Switch attempt, they wouldnt wanna risk eating a Meteor from this thing. It also has Weather Ball to take advantage of the Sun while its up. And like its bro Gfire, its also pretty bulky, with an amazing hp of 125, and decent defense stats of 91 (defense) and 87 (spdef) its a able to take a good hit an pivot out. There is also another set people are experimenting with, that being a Sub + Calm Mind set. With its decent bulk and high HP, it can grab a sub that doesnt get destroyed by Seismic Toss, and can allow it to be a potential Sweeper, spamming Meteors, Dragon Pulses, and Thunder Claps alike. Its typing has some pros, mainly its Dragon typing helps you play around the Water and Fire moves thrown at you at times. However, that typing also has its downsides, mainly its Earthquake weakness, meaning you'll have to find another way around EQ clicks from the opponent, which could be troublesome at times. And unlike Gfire, it doesn't have a form of recovery, meaning that it can only come in and pivot for couple of times, where as most pivots usually have a form of healing or utility, which Raging Bolt doesnt provide either. But it is still a mon with very unique talents that can be appreciatted for certain sun structures. So yeah, this one is likely staying around.

And of course, with Christmas around the corner, I wanted to warm you guys up with some sun teams (Also, i missed the Secret Santa event this year sadly, so I hope this makes up fot it.)
Gourgeous Fire Sun
Great Neck Sun

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

"Ground types dont bother take the dmeteor"

 

[Chilli Dewd]

"Ground types dont bother take the dmeteor"

Tbf, I did say "most" ground types. Clod is an exception to the rule.

 

[Ineros]

"Ground types dont bother take the dmeteor"

Clod is like…. Not that good? Sure ig it could be a weird ival check but even then ival runs psyshock a lot if it’s not cm booster. It gets overwhelmed too easily with a ground weakness of all things and while that doesn’t automatically disqualify a mon from being good clodsire isn’t the amazing offensive threat heatran is. In fact, it is very passive. It is basically setup fodder for mons like msciz, Glisc, Ferro (uses spikes all day on clod) and other things like kart and kyurem. Even heatran can beat it with Tera and it doesn’t help that lele and waterpon are the best mons in meta rn. Now you may say that Tera solves these issues, but in reality they don’t as the mons that use it as setup fodder still beat it and clod kinda has to pick and choose what beats it harder with Tera. Want to beat lele with Tera dark? Doesn’t exactly work considering you now have a weakness to zama (which you beat before) and lose hard to ival now. Steel still keeps its ground weakness and while it does check lele it now loses hard to heatran and Volc (mons it’s supposed to beat). Imo I’d rather use a ground like Glisc as it has a much better typing and better support options in defog, knock off, and even be very threatening with swords dance. (Also wabsorb clod is fake).

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

While All these points are right, clod is still the best check To koko and the best To raging bolt now aswell. I use it cause it can handle a lot of stuff and Never feels useless when well accompanied. Sure it is not the best mon in the tier but it pairs well with skarm for example. Ok heatran can tera+ taunt + magma storm and basically nuke it but waterpon can taunt alomomola and alomomola isn't a bad mon for that specifoc reason. it's not Good at dueling, but it's great for defensive pivoting and force switches To make the game progress if played well enough. After All, it is OU for a reason (unlike banette)

 

[Kyo]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-national-dex-suspect-9-dream-on.3733147/#post-9905132

Darkrai suspect test ^

 

[Dozkek]

Sun got new toys, so you know the drill...
View attachment 583365
As the certified National Dex Sun Expert here (Yeah, that is clearly a Title that I didn't made up) I can tell some of you might wondering my toughts on Great Neck(Raging Bolt) and Gorgeous Fire(Gouging Fire). And im pretty sure some of you are also wondering if these are going to make a repeat of the past, as showned in Ogerpon-Heartflame, Walking Wake, Roaring Moon and Flutter Mane. To answer that, lets dive into these ones shall we?



Perhaps the one the people are rising an eyebrow to atm. Gouging Fire imo feels like a slightly weaker and slower version of Ogerpon Heartflame, but in return, it has much more bulk. 115 atk is nice (Funny enough, same as Entei's) and 91 speed, while not very impressive, can be played around with options in its toolkit, mainly Dragon Dance and Scale Shot. This in combination with its good offensive stab combo can be pretty dangerous on its own right. Funny enough, you wouldn't want to be using Flare Blitz on Gouging Fire, since it has a weight of 590k. And... why does that matter? Well it means that it's Heat Crashes deal 120 base power due to that same weight, meaning that it has a Flare Blitz without the drawback of recoil, very scary indeed. It also has Earthquake for coverage, Outrage for a Dragonium Z nuke should you desire to go that route, and even has a great recovery option in Morning Sun, which can give u more health under sun, where you are mainly going to run it. And speaking of longevity, it has quite an impressive bulk, with 105 hp and a high defense stat of 121 and a decent special defense stat of 93, Gouging Fire is quite the hit taker, making it harder to take down without some serious power behind it. Some potential sets include a Dragon Dance + Scale Shot set, a Choice Band set, or... if you wanna be that one guy, defensive set with its sig, Burning Balwark, a Protect that burns on contact(do this last set i wouldnt recomend it on Sun, maybe on Stall) But there is a flaw on Gorgeous Fire, its typing is pretty meager defensively, so even do it can take neutral hits well, its weakeness are rather simple to exploit, mainly its weakness to Earthquake and Stealth Rock. With that said however, it has a lot of potential to really take over the metagame, do not 100% banworthy atm, it is a mon that should be keeped an eye on.


Now for Great Neck, this one isn't seeing nearly as much play as Gorgeous Fire, however, this doesn't mean it's a terrible pokemon. On the contrary, this mon has a pretty interesting niche for a Sun team. Now its not very fast at 75 speed, but it does have its Sig Thunderclap to help with that, which is an Eletric Special version of Sucker Punch. Also, being this slow also makes it a pretty valuble slow pivot, which that alone is pretty valuable for sun teams in order to bring your sweepers safely. And what's even more impressive its that special attack of 137. And with access to Draco Meteor and a potential Spatk boost from Protosynthesis, it can not only be a slow pivot, but a wallbreaker as well. While most Ground types can prey on a Volt Switch attempt, they wouldnt wanna risk eating a Meteor from this thing. It also has Weather Ball to take advantage of the Sun while its up. And like its bro Gfire, its also pretty bulky, with an amazing hp of 125, and decent defense stats of 91 (defense) and 87 (spdef) its a able to take a good hit an pivot out. There is also another set people are experimenting with, that being a Sub + Calm Mind set. With its decent bulk and high HP, it can grab a sub that doesnt get destroyed by Seismic Toss, and can allow it to be a potential Sweeper, spamming Meteors, Dragon Pulses, and Thunder Claps alike. Its typing has some pros, mainly its Dragon typing helps you play around the Water and Fire moves thrown at you at times. However, that typing also has its downsides, mainly its Earthquake weakness, meaning you'll have to find another way around EQ clicks from the opponent, which could be troublesome at times. And unlike Gfire, it doesn't have a form of recovery, meaning that it can only come in and pivot for couple of times, where as most pivots usually have a form of healing or utility, which Raging Bolt doesnt provide either. But it is still a mon with very unique talents that can be appreciatted for certain sun structures. So yeah, this one is likely staying around.

And of course, with Christmas around the corner, I wanted to warm you guys up with some sun teams (Also, i missed the Secret Santa event this year sadly, so I hope this makes up fot it.)
Gourgeous Fire Sun
Great Neck Sun

Great Neck on rain with Thunder & Weather ball just saying.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Great Neck on rain with Thunder & Weather ball just saying.

Following the footsteps of Walking Wake

 

[Nowno]

I stopped playing the game/this tier bc it had no future but i'm getting some interest again, can someone explain why mega-banette and ursaluna are in the tier is everyone really trolling that much

 

[Ineros]

I stopped playing the game/this tier bc it had no future but i'm getting some interest again, can someone explain why mega-banette and ursaluna are in the tier is everyone really trolling that much

1. Mega Bannete is just…. Not good. PokeaimMD made a video using it in NatDex and well monkey see monkey do. Around the time it rose (October shifts iirc) It had gotten the new shiny toy in poltergeist and makes a funni pair with another toy it got this Gen: encore. It still has an insane amount of flaws, and there are just better megas to use in this tier despite the mega slot being not too too important nowadays.
2. Although at first Ursaluna may have been only a niche tr Pokémon (as tr is niche), alomomola gaining access to flip turn gave Luna quite the amazing partner, allowing it to consistently break through just everything over the course of a game. The issue with Luna before was that it had longevity issues, but with Mola being able to wishpass effectively has now made Luna decent outside of tr, leading to more people using it.

 

[mcooper527666]

What exactly did the mons legal in OU yet banned from national dex get in national dex to warrant a ban, like roaring moon, gholdengo, walking wake, etc. Also, why the need to ban hound stone but not basculegion when last respects as a move is already banned?

 

[Ineros]

What exactly did the mons legal in OU yet banned from national dex get in national dex to warrant a ban, like roaring moon, gholdengo, walking wake, etc. Also, why the need to ban hound stone but not basculegion when last respects as a move is already banned?

1. Roaring Moon is already a strong Pokémon; after all, dd booster sets with Tera are kinda insane. The thing is here we have an actually splashable “sun setter” on some offenses in mega Charizard Y, which is already a good mon unlike Torkoal in regular OU. The combination of sun being more prevalent thanks to an actually good Pokémon and Tera bolstering its offensive abilities got it banned. With it getting knock off in the dlc, it’s probably still broken..
2. For Gholdengo, there isn’t really a specific mechanic here that OU doesn’t have that pushes it over the edge. In both tiers, it’s an issue after all, just one tier got to it first faster than the other. Although z sets did exist with Ghold, they weren’t too too common compared to other items like lefties and ccloak on the nasty plot set specifically, although they were still pretty decent.
3. Walking wake is basically the same as roaring moon, except I’d argue it is worse. It basically has a 120 bp no drawback move in sun that is boosted by protosynthesis AND can be boosted further with an item of your choice. It’s just very strong in general and with Myard’s sun this became worse. Not to mention it could work on rain as well, so you had to basically prepare for 2 weathers at once with the EXTERMELY limited pool of answers you have against it. It also got flip turn and even knock off in the dlc so don’t expect it coming back (even if it didn’t get those tools).
4. You’re probably also wondering about Kingambit. Basically here on top of it having it’s already good traits as it normally does (supreme overlord, sucker punch, etc) it got access to pursuit and knock, which gave it 2 stab moves which could just delete anything or cripple anything it wanted with astounding damage outputs. Tera didn’t exactly make this better, either.
5. It’s probably just a minor error that wasn’t taken care of in the intro to NatDex. Houndstone is legal (and not very good but still usable according to the literal definition) and last respect is and probably will stay banned.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

1. Roaring Moon is already a strong Pokémon; after all, dd booster sets with Tera are kinda insane. The thing is here we have an actually splashable “sun setter” on some offenses in mega Charizard Y, which is already a good mon unlike Torkoal in regular OU. The combination of sun being more prevalent thanks to an actually good Pokémon and Tera bolstering its offensive abilities got it banned. With it getting knock off in the dlc, it’s probably still broken..
2. For Gholdengo, there isn’t really a specific mechanic here that OU doesn’t have that pushes it over the edge. In both tiers, it’s an issue after all, just one tier got to it first faster than the other. Although z sets did exist with Ghold, they weren’t too too common compared to other items like lefties and ccloak on the nasty plot set specifically, although they were still pretty decent.
3. Walking wake is basically the same as roaring moon, except I’d argue it is worse. It basically has a 120 bp no drawback move in sun that is boosted by protosynthesis AND can be boosted further with an item of your choice. It’s just very strong in general and with Myard’s sun this became worse. Not to mention it could work on rain as well, so you had to basically prepare for 2 weathers at once with the EXTERMELY limited pool of answers you have against it. It also got flip turn and even knock off in the dlc so don’t expect it coming back (even if it didn’t get those tools).
4. You’re probably also wondering about Kingambit. Basically here on top of it having it’s already good traits as it normally does (supreme overlord, sucker punch, etc) it got access to pursuit and knock, which gave it 2 stab moves which could just delete anything or cripple anything it wanted with astounding damage outputs. Tera didn’t exactly make this better, either.
5. It’s probably just a minor error that wasn’t taken care of in the intro to NatDex. Houndstone is legal (and not very good but still usable according to the literal definition) and last respect is and probably will stay banned.

Im still baffled on how a 300 base power Ghost type move was fine by gamefreak.

 

[DatShinyCharizard]

Although I haven't actually played much this gen I've been skimming through this thread, the VR, and the NDPL and one mon that I haven't seen at all that sticks out to me is Mega Aerodactyl. With a 150 base speed, good ability in Tough Claws, a wide movepool, and maybe a somewhat decent defensive profile, on paper it seems to have a lot of very good tools to threaten a lot of the top tier mons. This mon looks to have a really good matchup vs a lot of the current offensive threats and can even make dents in defensive staples with the right coverage. Although it is weak to rocks it seems to have a good matchup vs most setters and even roost to increase longevity. I however do not know how much tera impacts Mega Aero's viability. I would be interested in knowing how good Mega Aerodactyl actually is or could be and what's stopping it from even being listed on the VR.

 

[Oculars]

would be interested in knowing how good Mega Aerodactyl actually is or could be and what's stopping it from even being listed on the VR.

Maero has one good niche in being a very good cteam to webs(possibly the best cteam to webs), in general it has poor defensive typing and a weakness to most common priority moves and lackluster bulk letting it get revenge killed invalidating it as a setup sweeper, it has good coverage but doesnt have a consistent set that can hit everything decently well, and is generally weak into common defensive mons like ferrothorn, pdef lando and most fat waters. Its the type of mon where 80% of the time it does nothing but on the rare matchup it can 6-0.

 

[ninth]

Maero has one good niche in being a very good cteam to webs(possibly the best cteam to webs), in general it has poor defensive typing and a weakness to most common priority moves and lackluster bulk letting it get revenge killed invalidating it as a setup sweeper, it has good coverage but doesnt have a consistent set that can hit everything decently well, and is generally weak into common defensive mons like ferrothorn, pdef lando and most fat waters. Its the type of mon where 80% of the time it does nothing but on the rare matchup it can 6-0.

Do you think Iron Crown might be able to fill a similar role? It doesn't take up the Mega slot, and Tachyon Cutter kills every Ribombee and Glimmora (even max HP is a 75% OHKO) without letting them get up any hazards. It doesn't kill Araquanid or Galvantula but I do think it could be useful as a Ribombee counter.

 

[Yxzwilliam]

All the real Gs know tera needs to be banned.
Your arguments against my claim.

1. We have done 2 suspects already why again it's not going to get banned. (response) Well while that is true, I feel the conversation is becoming even more popular and people like omargarciav and a few other guys and gals who are actually decent or good at the game, have said its very annoying to lose a game that you would never lose because you have to consider tera, mega and Z it's not that it's just OP which it is but also not. It is the overwhelming factor of tera knowing you would've won because you played better but lost because of tera.

2. Council doesn't want to do another suspect. (response) Bro if that's the case and they have had that authority this entire time it should come down to a council vote. I mean opinions have evolved and most of the messages on this forum page is that tera should be suspected once again.

I mean I could really grab multiple replays of tera causing each council member good amounts of losses.
and a few of the council raging so for them not to consider it is very idiotic and unreasonable.
I am not looking for an argument if u disagree give me a angry face in emojis. I'm not here to argue with fellow Mon enjoyers it's just ignorant.
Thx for reading and if you are going to reply please take the time to think about your reply and perfect. it.

 

[Fabriisse]

1. Mega Bannete is just…. Not good. PokeaimMD made a video using it in NatDex and well monkey see monkey do. Around the time it rose (October shifts iirc) It had gotten the new shiny toy in poltergeist and makes a funni pair with another toy it got this Gen: encore. It still has an insane amount of flaws, and there are just better megas to use in this tier despite the mega slot being not too too important nowadays.
2. Although at first Ursaluna may have been only a niche tr Pokémon (as tr is niche), alomomola gaining access to flip turn gave Luna quite the amazing partner, allowing it to consistently break through just everything over the course of a game. The issue with Luna before was that it had longevity issues, but with Mola being able to wishpass effectively has now made Luna decent outside of tr, leading to more people using it.

i honestly think that with a screen ho team M-Banette has a niche, as the main issue for banette is to get on the field bc of how frail he is.