Overall W post but the sun one is literally just unstoppable lolol cuz of unaware ignoring the drops from Draco meteor and not ignoring the protosynthesis boost and weather ball hitting treads and ferrothorn but I like this post
Encore is not as common as its main sets but that doesn’t make it something to discount, especially because it messes with many fat teams to a ridiculous degree.
You’re assuming Bolt is at 100% (which is big lol because it’s used to switch into stuff and launch off powerful offense), and that stealth rock and/or spikes aren’t up. Lele revenge kills it, it’s not switching directly in.
You didnt even offer a counter argument to why FayaWizard’s Wellspring argument. Encore disrupts CM variants relying on Booster Energy and if you're Z, being forced to burn the Z just makes it easier to handle anyways since the Bolt user was forced to waste a major resource. And all that is disounting Play Rough Wellspring sets which completely destroy Bolt. I'm also just gonna have to stop you there with the gambit comparison. Gambit has a laundry list of incredible defensive utility it brought to teams, from pursuit to help check dangerous ghost and psychic types (Pult, Lele, Gholdengo), it helped keep faster frail threats in line with incredibly strong priority, it spread damage with knock off and helped force progress. Bolt's defensive utility is there, checking stuff like Urshifu-R, Zapdos/Tornadus-T, Rillaboom, Rotom-W, that's cool. But it doesn't come close to what Kingambit did defensively. The 1.3 proto boost is only one time use most of the time, and given how very possible it is to chase Bolt out, it's not nearly as big a deal as Kingambit's perma damage boosts it got as the battle went on. It really didn't matter that we had tons of fighters because Kingambit both could tera to beat them, and knocked them off to cripple them for teammates.
CM Z+sun Bolt is not exactly the most common style, for a number of reasons, but Chansey can eat a hit, toxic Bolt, switch out baiting the follow up Draco, and stall out Bolt pretty easily. Speaking of sun, yes some Bolt run Weather Ball for Ferro, but guess what happens when you run weather ball? You have to drop either TBolt or Calm Mind (you need Thunderclap+Dragon stab), and dropping either is not desirable as dropping Tbolt means stuff like Toxapex can toxic and pivot around to stall out, while dropping CM leaves it much less potent offensively.
It doesn't have a lot of variety honestly. CM+Z, Booster+CM, and sun+CM. Like three sets, and they all have a pretty good amount of soft checks and strong checks alike that overlap. It is not remotely impossible to prep for. Ferrothorn, LandorusT, Spdef Gliscor, Heatran, Slowking-G (tera fairy+toxic owns it), Ting-Lu, plus the many ways you can chain pivoting between immunities and resists to limit it along with hazards. It's a great mon that brings cool aspects to teambuilding but in no way is it broken, let alone anywhere near Kingambit.
You can't, because despite ladder usage weirdness, it's a set that exists and has to be respected. You also just ignored the part where it needs Z to even break the loop, which btw Wellspring can simply pivot out of to bait and waste your Z and then Bolt is REALLY stuck.
You didn't refute or defeat. Also drop the attitude it's not helping your argument at all.
Lele is almost always choiced and clicking any move besides FB meant it was losing most, if not all health to pursuit on the way out. Gholdengo only sometimes ran Z fighting because of Gambit, but it was still less common because lefties NP and covert cloak NP were much better back then.
Yeah you can just quit right there. I played during the Kingambit meta, and got reqs to ban it. Dark was a common type, but it was not the only type it could run. It's one of the most tera flexible pokemon in the game. Kingambit cripples fighting types switching in with knock off. That's quite literally what that means. Also "its also not doing shit with sucker punch unless it has enough fallen teammatesz" says you either didn't play the meta or didn't play enough. Even early game Gambit had immense strength to pressure frail offense without boosting (and that's if it wasn't running Blackglasses, which made it even more devilish.
The rest of this is just "Bolt being in the perfect conditions every scenario therefore it can't lose" which is both unrealistic and not common. Bolt on Sun is the LEAST common way it's used, so using every calc as if it's on sun and CM is very disingenuous. Though one I want to specifically touch on because it tanks your post more than anything,
Bolt never loses to ogerpon. Stop.
you're presupposing i have already used thunderclap or calm mind and on top of that theres ways to break through the thunder clap or encore u can also just switch out lol and if u catch me on a thunder clap with encore u need to swords dance or go for some odd 50/50. That sounds extremely subjective "ladder usage weirdness" i would love for you to attempt to justify that theres literally no way u can spin it to make ogerpon beat raging bolt whatsoever so idk why ur just tryna argue to argue lol its a waste of time when people dont accept when they're wrong and just keep arguing a losing battle, respect tera flying terablast raging bolt if u should respect all sets and respect my set of z body press pls for ting lu like what i dont have to respect every set lmfao. If its not commonly used it shouldnt be brought up in the argument.
There's so much irony in that when you've sort been doing nothing but arguing despite being wrong. When I say respect Encore Oger, it's because it's an actual set brought to serious play at any decent or high level. Unlike bad faith stuff like "tera blast flying raging bolt". Especially when Encore is actually in the set options for its analysis.
Torkoal is notoriously a unmon, an unviable junk mon that ladder wants to spam despite it being awful. You're really coming across as bad faith with your attitude. People are just trying to explain to why Bolt isn't broken and you're dismissing them without really making sound counterarguments, and being kind of cocky.
Yeah you really didn't play the tier enough at the time, no offense. It was used on some occasions to flip the match up on Gambit (reduce knock and let it ensure a smack back on it).
Oh let's see... it massively helped against all manner of swift swim abuse when that was popular, it helped against psyspam, the threat of sucker helped vs offensive Zapdos, TornT, ZardY, Mega Medicham, and when factoring in SD boosts and not even Supreme Overlord, +2 Sucker Punch could pick off even frail resisted mons like MLop, Lopunny. And probably more i'm forgetting.
Taking a tone as though you're the right one here and others are wrong despite being presented with multiple viable counterplay and your response is to handwave and go "nuh uh it does this and wins". Bolt has small permutations in its one set (CM) such as substitute and taunt, but these don't come without concessions and it's this reason why it's more than managable. Your arguments and calcs all largely depend on sun support when you can ask people and they'll tell you, sun is not a very consistent playstyle for a number of reasons (i listed a few before), and Torkoal is not a good pokemon. It's not even ranked on the VR and hasn't been for some time.
On mobile at the moment so I can’t make an argument right now (will tomorrow), but holy hell is this one of the most arrogant parts of a post I have read (and I have read CTC’s posts in the Gouging suspect test). FayaWizard and Moyashi are giving you points to counter your arguments, and you still think that they’re “arguing for the sake of arguing”. Remind me, who started this argument and who has the burden of proof? That would be you.
I’m not sure if you know what a burden of proof is but when they counter my claim making positive assertions the burden of proof would then fall onto them lol but Ive stopped engaging Moyashi because the argument was going circular and not progressing
I am part of my local debate circuit and know some stuff about law, so I’d say I know what a burden of proof is. The “positive assertions” you think they’re making are rebuttals to your unsubstantiated points; I’d be happy to be proven wrong. In my eyes, honestly, you’ve stopped engaging Moyashi not because the argument was going circular, but that some of your main points were disproven.
I mean you can think that the main points were disproven but that’s just not the case and I wouldn’t say they’re unsubstantiated points if I provide empirical evidence for every one of them bro
You threw out a bunch on paper calcs and scenarios without regarding whether or not these are practical to replicate consistently, especially at a high level. You claimed Torkoal was popular as if that somehow justifies your arguments and I pointed out the mon is not good at all (not helped by the fact Galar Slowking is extremely prevelant and very good and it denies sun constantly), which sort of makes your sun calcs a moot point. Just for the record, but generally when you make a claim like "X is broken" when said X hasn't been claimed to be broken from most other people, the burden of proof is on you generally. Not trying to be rude, but you sort of just started getting rude with people when they wouldn't agree with you.
Torkoal being popular was a refutation to your point about Zard y and hazards. And to my knowledge and recollection i would say raging bolt is broken provide my reasoning to why raging bolt was broken which would be my proof to substantiate my claim and my bad for being rude I’m having a bad day
Hurricane doesn't help with your mu with clod at all: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 114-135 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This just makes me feel sad.
This already exists? A lot of mons on the VR are not in the tier, like Mega Ttar, or Dondozo (and some that are on should not be in the tier looking at you Mega Bannette).
Oh Stop hating mban a 165 atk mon with a 110 bp stab, prio, prankster, Encore, taunt, wow, twave, tox, dbond, Sd, gunk shot, and maybe more
All paper traits that don't translate to anything consistent or practical in practice. It overrelies on prankster to compensate for its speed and frailty which leads to a highly exploitable play pattern that results in inconsistency. Its main attack also gets blanked by any Booster Energy pokemon or a pokemon that got knocked off. It needs Poltergeist and then wants Destiny Bond to ensure fast offense doesn't run it over or chase it out easily. Leaving two slots. Running Encore may give it some points of entry vs setting up pokemon, but results in it having typically only one attacking move if you want SD too (and dropping SD means it can't consistently get through common defensive structures, but dropping TWave/Wisp means it can't be used for utility and thus limits what it can do in a game.
any setup gets encored, If you dont setup you dbonded, If you switch odds are you get At least 40%'d by poltergeist. So yea, it doesnt rlly fit on Knock spam Hstacks, nor does audino-mega fit on HOs (any tier), it's frail and slow, and sure it relies on prankster, but only Dark types and mbounce rlly ignores prankster. No mban in existence ever clicked (or played) SD, dont worry.
