kakaks It's allowed if it holds a red orb in base form lol
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Metagame National Dex BH
- Thread starter anaconja
- Start date
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ooh
its to not allow it to hold any other item?
It can but it needs red orb to be primal
ZaCian can be crowned if you select the base form holding the rusted sword. And a glitch in the code allows the use of intrepid sword as long as user is holding rusted sword
I do think it's worth unbannimg mega Rayquaza. Many more mons such as Arceus, Eternatus, ZaCian, Zen Darm as well as triple axle being a common coverage move. Ice scales also makes triage and Specs much more bearable. It will obviously be an incredibly powerful force but idt it would be unhealthy.
On a different subject I feel rain is a pretty underated threat atm with stuff like rend. Here's a team I have : https://pokepast.es/94a483bb288ac4d1
It needs some alterations like removing 4 dragons lol. But ye it's been pretty decent. Just my 2 cents
On a different subject I feel rain is a pretty underated threat atm with stuff like rend. Here's a team I have : https://pokepast.es/94a483bb288ac4d1
It needs some alterations like removing 4 dragons lol. But ye it's been pretty decent. Just my 2 cents
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Disagree. From the USUM analysis of mega beedril who outclassed pheromosa in most case.I personally would like to acknowledge the most L’Oréal of all Ultra Beasts:
Strike a Posa with Pheromosa!
Lead (Pheromosa) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off / Bolt Beak
- U-Turn
- Close Combat
- V-Create
Leading the team is what Pheromosa does best, scouting for switches via U-Turn, and by virtue of outspeeding the Metagame, removing items from Pokemon before they can use them. Don’t mess with the feminine ace, that sets the pace, and wins the race in first place!
With Stealth Rocks, and many times without, Pheromosa 1HKOs Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Registeel, MMY, Sceptile-Mega, Gengar-Mega, Arceus, etc. and makes a powerful lead.Using Tough Claws and Expert Belt works great thanks to the neutrality to Stealth Rocks, which, unlike Beedrill-Mega, Aerodactyl-Mega, etc. allows it to come in repeatedly to threaten the opponent before pivoting with U-Turn.252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 446-526 (100.4 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 480-566 (100.4 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sceptile-Mega: 353-418 (102.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Having Close Combat and V-Create lets it handle a combination of Pokemon like Dialga, Celesteela, and Necrozma Dusk-Mane while Knock Off handles Pokemon like Gengar-Mega and serves utility for removing items from Pokemon like Toxic Orb on Poison Healers that think they can switch in, such as Xerneas, or Assault Vest Regenator Pokemon.
View attachment 270624
Gen 8 Update:
If Knock Off seems too weak to use, Bolt Beak makes a suitable option to break things that typically resist its Attacks like Ho-Oh, as well as common walls like Arceus-Water, in addition to breaking opposing sweepers like Aerodactyl-Mega. Another benefit is having a strong move to handle Flash Fire Celesteela, and other niche Pokemon (Lugia, Slowbro-Mega). Here are some Calcs:V-Create also serves as a punishment for Imposter coming in on the switch, 1HKOing it, after Stealth Rocks.252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Water: 382-451 (86 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 463-547 (111.2 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 528-622 (145 - 170.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowbro-Mega: 310-365 (78.6 - 92.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 360-425 (86.5 - 102.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Pheromosa Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 422-499 (106 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pheromosa is seen as lacking offensive prowess, and as a generic fast pivot, but when the opponent sees how many 1HKOs it can score without a Choice Band, it becomes clear many can’t handle a dose a Pheromosa!
Outspeeding the metagame makes it truly capable of using Bolt Beak, even outpacing Scarf +SpA Kyogre-P (Water Spout sets). As long as it can use a move super effectively, it tends to KO it’s targets.
Nomination for its Domination, to C-Rank on the VR.
It scores too many key KOs to not be ranked higher than D. Literally 1HKOing 50 / 83 Pokemon on the entire VR (not including Immunity abilities).
It doesn't matter how many ohkos you get if you're outclassed. Eg. Ultra Necrozma is a very strong pick in a vaccum but it's outclassed by mmy and deoxys as strong fast psychic types.
First of all, here's a quick calc on how Beedrill can OHKO Mega Diancie with a Poison move:
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Diancie-Mega: 322-380 (105.9 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Second of all, Phero's 6 extra Speed is honestly not a big advantage here, because Beedrill outspeeds essentially almost everything it wants to target anyway. The only viable exceptions are Pheromosa, Deoxys-Attack, itself, and the niche pick of Mega Alakazam. Zacian-Crowned is not a good target for either of these two bugs, since Pheromosa CC does not do enough to stay in unless Zacian is low. Additionally, Aerodactyl-Mega is also somewhat of a niche pick, and from what I've seen often runs some form of priority anyway, such as Accelerock or Aerilate E-Speed, so it's not great for either bug to try and combat. But every other threat Beedrill would want to try and square up against, it can, because it outspeeds them. Mewtwo Y, Ash Greninja, Gengar (with coverage). Sure, Pheromosa is still able to beat these threats, but the greater power of Mega Beedrill means it will be chipping defensive targets more with its U-Turns than Pheromosa. Beedrill has a better matchup against relevant Fairies, and Darks are inconsequential anyway, due to U-Turn being the better go to option against them. Arceus-Fairy is a big defensive threat, which Beedrill threatens immensely, while Phero is a sitting duck unless it runs coverage for it, in which case it still does less to it. Arceus-Water is hit harder by Beedrill's moves and/or coverage than Phero's, and it's currently the best form of Arceus. Diancie-Mega cannot simply E-Speed Beedrill to death in a neutral situation, which means it's automatically a better choice to take it on compared to Phero, regardless of being able to kill or not. Beedrill passes a threshold of power to be considered a strong breaker, while Pheromosa barely has any more threats it can go up against and doesn't do as well against defensive mons.
Oh, and before you mention it, as a Fighting type and/or a mixed breaker Mewtwo Mega X outclasses it, even with the fact that Mega Mewtwo Y and Zacian-Crowned outspeed it. Anything Phero would want to break with CC is broken harder by Mewtwo X. Mewtwo X is also much bulkier, while Phero is just as (if not more) paper thin as Mega Beedrill. So, conclusion? Phero is outclassed in the fields it would want to be relevant in, with only minor advantages compared to the competition. You can never underestimate Pheromosa, but I'm overall much more wary of Mewtwo and Beedrill when I play against them. Therefore, its position in D is justified, but any higher would honestly be overestimating it.
(Also, don't try to state that Phero is better than Beedrill because of some move additions, because Beedrill can run the same moves to greater effect.)
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Dark is largely threatened by U-Turn anyway, so CC is only a minor step up, and in turn, Beedrill is still able to take it on rather reliably. And, more importantly, if Arceus-Steel can be beaten without sacrificing coverage, why would you "just run V-Create anyway"? You'll be sacrificing coverage for that option, just like Beedrill has to sacrifice coverage to take out certain threats.
Also, the fact that Beedrill doesn't OHKO Diancie with a move on the Tough Claws set is true. But Pheromosa also loses the 1v1, the difference being that Phero does literally nothing to Diancie because Diancie can just kill it before it can move, which automatically makes Beedrill better against Diancie. This fact is what I was trying to point out to you, that regardless of whether or not Beedrill kills, it's still got a better matchup against a prime priority user, which Phero cannot say. Also, Beedrill-Mega is better against Mega Audino, as well.
You may say Phero beats those Normals, but really, Phero is a shaky check to Gigas and Slaking at best. The PHeal set can often run a protection move, and after a Shift Gear, Phero becomes an easy OHKO. All of their other sets run strong priority, meaning Phero will actually be killed or forced out before it can even move. Phero is better than Beedrill at this matchup, sure, but Phero only beats PHeal variants, and that's assuming they're not packing King's Shield and they don't have up a Shift Gear. An actual matchup that Phero can argue it wins more often is against Primordial Sea/Flash Fire Ferrothorn. Beedrill can, however, run CC over V-Create, which has a 75% chance to OHKO. You may argue that this is worse coverage than V-Create, and you'd be right, but I could then ask why you would run V-Create on a Fighting type for the express purpose of OHKOing Zacian-C. Additionally, I have almost never seen Zamazenta-C run Primordial Sea, though to be fair I rarely see Zamazenta period. Lastly, if you really want to beat down those Steels, Darks and Normals with CC, just run Banded Mewtwo X. You can pair it with Beedrill for a couple of strong breakers that mesh well with one another, Mewtwo taking out Steels and Poisons (And maybe even some Fur Coat mons thanks to Photon Geyser), Beedrill taking on faster mons, bulky Psychics, and Fairies, and both of them softening up their checks for one another via U-Turn pivoting.
Phero can be considered a consolidation of the two, but eventually, those lower rolls with your chipping moves will add up to that one move you really needed to kill not doing the job, and you lose. That little extra bit of power is worth much more than what you're making it out to, because, in a vacuum, Phero can deal with all this stuff, but in an actual game against a full team, you'll find yourself clicking U-Turn the most often, since you can use it to gain momentum. And, in that regard, Beedrill outclasses Pheromosa, even if it may seem insignificant at first. That tiny bit of extra chip will really add up by the third time you pivot, to the point where you can finally break that thing they keep switching in to try and beat you. Therefore, anyone that wants a fast pivoting bug will lean towards the option that does its main thing better. This leaves Phero in a position of being outclassed, and in turn, obsolete by comparison. If anything, lowering Beedrill would make more sense than raising Pheromosa, though I don't think Beedrill being lower than it is now would make sense.
Oh, and, one last thing, here are a few calcs where Beedrill's extra power does come into play:
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Eternatus: 216-258 (44.6 - 53.3%) -- approx. 91.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Pheromosa Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Eternatus: 204-240 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- approx. 12.9% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus: 468-552 (96.6 - 114%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Pheromosa Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus: 438-516 (90.4 - 106.6%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO
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1. My point is that Arceus-Dark does not want to stay in on Mega Beedrill anyway. Mega Beedrill’s role is to pressure switches to maintain momentum, then capitalize on it with an appropriate switch. Your foe is going to switch in their Giratina or Fur Coat mon to tank a Beedrill hit, which you then U-Turn safely out of and into your appropriate breaker, such as Mewtwo X. This also prevents Tyranitar from switching in to Pursuit trap you. It doesn’t matter that Pheromosa can OHKO Arceus-Dark if your foe is never going to allow you to do so. You’ll be better off using U-Turn rather than risking a loss of momentum with CC in most scenarios, which Beedrill does better. Phero can kill stuff, sure, but Phero is less effective with the one thing it’s going to have to do constantly. And, once again, if you really want a CC user, Mewtwo X is still better. Zacian-C is one threat that Mewtwo deals with less effectively than Pheromosa. Out of all the rest of the threats Mewtwo is far better at dealing with. Oh, and Pheromosa has to rely on V-Create for that, which means it faces the same problems as Beedrill when using it.
2. Pheromosa can take on Arceus-Steel without needing V-Create. Great. The thing is, if Phero is running STABs (which it should be), it cannot confidently take on Regen Magearna, Prankster Zygarde-C, and Fur Coat Arceus-Water at the same time, for example. Once your foe figures out which coverage moves you have, they’ll find out which Pokemon they can use to protect themselves from Phero. The same is true of Beedrill, as well. And once they do, they can switch it in without too much worry of falling down. You know what this means? You’ll be clicking U-Turn much more often. You know who has the stronger, better U-Turn? Beedrill. This is what makes Beedrill better in the long run.
3. Phero is shaky against Kangaskhan, since Kangaskhan almost always packs E-Speed, and after some chip, Kang can easily pick up a kill.
252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pheromosa: 216-256 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- approx. 2HKO
The same is true of Beedrill, yes. That doesn’t change much. Also, those other Pokemon you mentioned, as well as Kangaskhan, are all dealt with better by Mewtwo X. Just use Mewtwo X.
4. Arceus and Xerneas sometimes run Fire coverage, but they run Ground coverage much more often, and they sometimes run no coverage at all. Beedrill can take a +1 Scorching Sands, wind up burned, and still deal back more damage.
+1 252 SpA Arceus-Fairy Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 99-117 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
+1 252 SpA Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 106-126 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws burned Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 180-213 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws burned Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 211-249 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Also, just because Beedrill loses to those Normalize mons does not change the fact that Pheromosa also has a disadvantage against them.
5. Pheromosa can choose to run V-Create, and then runs into the exact same problems Beedrill runs into when trying to use it, including being revenge kill bait. You can kill Flash Fire Steels more reliably, but you could also simply predict them to switch into their Flash Fire Steel on Beedrill and U-Turn out into Mewtwo X, a far better mon for Close Combat. Using two Pokemon allows for more effective breaking than simply one, since Mewtwo and Beedrill diversify their kills far more than Pheromosa can, with eight moves instead of four for breaking/utility. In fact, you can entirely forego V-Create on Beedrill, choosing instead Bolt Beak and Triple Axel, leaving Mewtwo to pick off the Steels. If you think your foe is going to switch in a Steel, you U-Turn into Mewtwo. If you think your foe is then going to switch into a Fairy to take your Close Combat, you U-Turn again back into Beedrill. U-Turn chains like this are very effective in creeating pressure, and flat out require at least two Pokemon to pull off, which is why you would want to spend two slots on it. A U-Turn chain to apply pressure is most effective when your chain doesn’t rely on too much overlap, and Mewtwo has the stronger Close Combat, so it’s better on that chain than Pheromosa is. And sure, Phero can deal with Zacian-C using V-Create, which this specific chain cannot do, but Phero then leaves itself vulnerable to stuff like TTar Pursuit, which, at -1...
252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Tyranitar-Mega Pursuit vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Pheromosa: 171-201 (49.4 - 58%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
6. I’ll just raise my hand as a user of Eternatus and say that Eternatus is a massive threat if used correctly. Also, knocking Etern out from full is pretty notable. You don’t always get hazards up.
Another point that you brought up was that Beedrill can forego Poison STAB in favor of more coverage. Your foe will assume you have a Poison move, and so they’ll be scared to bring in Fairy types, but you can really be keeping a separate Fairy counter while Beedrill feigns it. Phero, meanwhile, won’t want to give up Close Combat due to it being more valuable to its kill power than any alternative. Which means that Beedrill actually winds up the one with more slots to play around with, not the other way around. And even assuming Beedrill is going to be running Poison STAB, the issue of coverage can still end up less of an issue with proper teambuilding.
In conclusion, Beedrill is sort of meant to be U-Turn: the Pokemon, and is better at that than Pheromosa. Because it’s better at that than Pheromosa, it outclasses it. The honest best thing Pheromosa has against Beedrill is being able to click U-Turn safely against Zacian-C. After all, clicking V-Create against Zacian-C is not going to do much against that switchin the foe has for it, which sinks your momentum to zero, so you might as well just click U-Turn to keep up that momentum for the time being.
https://pokepast.es/68bced7f1706a4cc
This is a balance team I've built over the past few days, and it's been working pretty well for me so far.
My defensive core starts with an Ice Scales Blissey, which walls basically every special attacker out there. I'm running min Spe to try to ensure that I Tport last, Jungle Healing to prevent it from losing to the occasional opponent with Toxic, and Spectral Thief and WoW for support. I chose Blissey over Chansey because it isn't crippled by Knock Off, and can therefore be a bit more consistent.
Fur Coat Rocky Helmet Zygarde-C walls most physical attackers, and can often times take a Triple Axel quite well while dishing out three rounds of Rocky Helmet chip. Body Press hits hard with a 750 base defense(after Fur Coat), and Rocks are there to break sashes.
Lastly, I have a Prankster Fairyceus. I debated running Magic Bounce, but I've generally found Prankster to be more helpful. It has priority Haze(I chose Haze over Topsy-Turvy because priority Topsy-Turvy is blocked by the Psychic Terrain) to give me yet another way through set-up sweepers, Defog for teams with hazard spam, and Knock to help with Ghost types and hopefully cripple Toxic-Orb users if I predict correctly.
Together, these three mons can handle most threats, though they do struggle against a few things, such as Photon Geyser Mewtwo-X.
Offensively, I have a Normalize Slaking with Haze + Imprison. Though it can't hit the occasional Giratina that you run into, it more than makes up for that with how well it usually performs, as well as the ability to catch opponents off guard by locking their Prankster Haze and also Improofing with Imprison. I did have to choose between locking Haze or Topsy-Turvy, but I've run into more Haze users, and Topsy-Turvy is also blocked by the Psychic Terrain that my Mewtwo-Y sets.
Speaking of which, my Mewtwo-Y is a Specs Psyspam set that I took directly from Gen 8 BH(besides changing it from regular Mewtwo to Mewtwo-Y). It's pretty self explanatory - click Expanding Force and win.
Lastly, I have Triage Rayquaza. I ran this is Gen 7 BH and it did quite well, but it is struggling a bit this gen, especially with Ice Scales users everywhere. Moongeist Beam can sometimes help deal with Ice Scales, but not always. My Rayquaza and Mewtwo-Y are both walled by my Blissey, so I don't really need to Improof them(though Sub on Rayquaza is somewhat of an Improof).
So yeah, that's my team. I am considering switching Rayquaza for someone else, maybe Zacian-C or Kyurem-B, so please let me know your thoughts on this team!
This is a balance team I've built over the past few days, and it's been working pretty well for me so far.
My defensive core starts with an Ice Scales Blissey, which walls basically every special attacker out there. I'm running min Spe to try to ensure that I Tport last, Jungle Healing to prevent it from losing to the occasional opponent with Toxic, and Spectral Thief and WoW for support. I chose Blissey over Chansey because it isn't crippled by Knock Off, and can therefore be a bit more consistent.
Fur Coat Rocky Helmet Zygarde-C walls most physical attackers, and can often times take a Triple Axel quite well while dishing out three rounds of Rocky Helmet chip. Body Press hits hard with a 750 base defense(after Fur Coat), and Rocks are there to break sashes.
Lastly, I have a Prankster Fairyceus. I debated running Magic Bounce, but I've generally found Prankster to be more helpful. It has priority Haze(I chose Haze over Topsy-Turvy because priority Topsy-Turvy is blocked by the Psychic Terrain) to give me yet another way through set-up sweepers, Defog for teams with hazard spam, and Knock to help with Ghost types and hopefully cripple Toxic-Orb users if I predict correctly.
Together, these three mons can handle most threats, though they do struggle against a few things, such as Photon Geyser Mewtwo-X.
Offensively, I have a Normalize Slaking with Haze + Imprison. Though it can't hit the occasional Giratina that you run into, it more than makes up for that with how well it usually performs, as well as the ability to catch opponents off guard by locking their Prankster Haze and also Improofing with Imprison. I did have to choose between locking Haze or Topsy-Turvy, but I've run into more Haze users, and Topsy-Turvy is also blocked by the Psychic Terrain that my Mewtwo-Y sets.
Speaking of which, my Mewtwo-Y is a Specs Psyspam set that I took directly from Gen 8 BH(besides changing it from regular Mewtwo to Mewtwo-Y). It's pretty self explanatory - click Expanding Force and win.
Lastly, I have Triage Rayquaza. I ran this is Gen 7 BH and it did quite well, but it is struggling a bit this gen, especially with Ice Scales users everywhere. Moongeist Beam can sometimes help deal with Ice Scales, but not always. My Rayquaza and Mewtwo-Y are both walled by my Blissey, so I don't really need to Improof them(though Sub on Rayquaza is somewhat of an Improof).
So yeah, that's my team. I am considering switching Rayquaza for someone else, maybe Zacian-C or Kyurem-B, so please let me know your thoughts on this team!
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
I faced this team early today, and it was a fun team. :)
I would consider Dark Memory Multi-Attack over Imprison, and Taunt over Haze. Taunt stops many things, and Shift Gear lets you go first.
If Haze stops your sweep, they are likely slower users with Prankster, letting you beat most of their other moves, and block Recovery via Taunt. Taunt also means you can set up again, ultimately forcing them out.
Also, I like Dark Memory, since it lets you hit Ghosts like Giratina, Psychics like Dusk-Mane / Solgaleo, etc. and it’s at equal power to Wicked Blow, which is pretty cool.
Although, you could get away with Ice Memory, equal power to Triple Axel, to score some heavy surprise damage to Zygarde-C, while still hitting Giratina for equal damage.
+1 252+ Atk Slaking Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 632-748 (99.3 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Slaking Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 318-376 (63.2 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gengar-Mega Normalize will waste a turn trying to Normalize you only to see you Shift Gear, and then panic! Gengar-Mega cannot remove yourself Multi-Attacks damage!
The great thing is that Imposterproofing is easy with any Ghost-type, since they don’t have a Memory item.
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I think the issue becomes being unable to use Rayquaza after MMY has activated Psychic Surge.
My suggestion is to just use Dazzling, and perhaps Gengar-Mega is a good option.
You could switch out Moongeist Beam for Secret Sword on Rayquaza, allowing your Gengar-Mega to Improof it. Substitute works well to maintain momentum and block Imposter, but it might be helpful to throw in Giga Drain for stuff like Scarf Kyogre-P, Tyranitar-Mega, Ash-Greninja, and Diancie-Mega.
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Gengar-Mega can also use a Ghost move of its own, so it’s not like you are losing out on the coverage offered by Moongeist Beam.
Gengar can use Spooky Plate, and also would serve as a Ghost option for Improofing Slaking as well as itself.
Gengar alone Improofed 1/2 your team! :)
________
Also, if you move Knock Off from Arceus-Fairy, and give it a Judgment Fairy Plate, not only can it threaten opposing Dragon, Fighting, etc. Pokemon, but it would also make Gengar-Mega Improof that as well (since Imposter doesn’t pack Pixie Plate). This lets Gengar-Mega block Imposter Prankster Defog, in addition to the Rapid Spin and Imposter Defog attempts.
Now, Gengar Improofs 2/3 of your team!
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Lastly, Blissey could be replaced by Ice Scales Yveltal
Yveltal @ Heavy-Duty boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
IVs: 0 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-Turn
- Topsy Turvy
You can handle many things while your Improofed via Arceus-Fairy, and can remove your flying typing when it suits you, such as Vs Tyranitar-Mega. Since it blocks Prankster, it could also serve as a Defog blocker on your opponent’s Imposter Arceus.
Topsy-Turvey works well against setup, and even against Rapid Spin Pokemon like Ho-Oh. I like it because unlike Haze, it takes 2 turns to undo.
Lastly, Yveltal makes it come full circle by handling some sets of MMY, Gengar-Mega, and STAB Knock Off serving as a General utility move, so Arceus doesn’t need to use it.
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Now that Yveltal has Topsy-Turvy just replace Haze on Zygarde-Complete with Nuzzle. It’s a move that can diminish the opponents momentum via Speed drop, paralysis, and it doesn’t hurt you if Imposter comes in. I don’t know what Body Press does, but we don’t need another Gengar-Improofed mon, so let’s try Thousand Waves and self-Improof via PP Stall, while also trapping PDon, and others that don’t typically pack U-Turn.
Team; https://pokepast.es/333e047dd9171c8d
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Thank you so much! I chose Mega Gyarados over Yveltal cuz of its Ice resistance which my team was kinda needing, but yeah, this has actually been extremely helpful. That Dazzling Gengar set is really good, and Slaking with Ice type Multi-Attack is insane.I faced this team early today, and it was a fun team. :)
I would consider Dark Memory Multi-Attack over Imprison, and Taunt over Haze. Taunt stops many things, and Shift Gear lets you go first.
If Haze stops your sweep, they are likely slower users with Prankster, letting you beat most of their other moves, and block Recovery via Taunt. Taunt also means you can set up again, ultimately forcing them out.
Also, I like Dark Memory, since it lets you hit Ghosts like Giratina, Psychics like Dusk-Mane / Solgaleo, etc. and it’s at equal power to Wicked Blow, which is pretty cool.
Although, you could get away with Ice Memory, equal power to Triple Axel, to score some heavy surprise damage to Zygarde-C, while still hitting Giratina for equal damage.
+1 252+ Atk Slaking Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 632-748 (99.3 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Slaking Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 318-376 (63.2 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gengar-Mega Normalize will waste a turn trying to Normalize you only to see you Shift Gear, and then panic! Gengar-Mega cannot remove yourself Multi-Attacks damage!
The great thing is that Imposterproofing is easy with any Ghost-type, since they don’t have a Memory item.
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I think the issue becomes being unable to use Rayquaza after MMY has activated Psychic Surge.
My suggestion is to just use Dazzling, and perhaps Gengar-Mega is a good option.
You could switch out Moongeist Beam for Secret Sword on Rayquaza, allowing your Gengar-Mega to Improof it. Substitute works well to maintain momentum and block Imposter, but it might be helpful to throw in Giga Drain for stuff like Scarf Kyogre-P, Tyranitar-Mega, Ash-Greninja, and Diancie-Mega.
—————
Gengar-Mega can also use a Ghost move of its own, so it’s not like you are losing out on the coverage offered by Moongeist Beam.
Gengar can use Spooky Plate, and also would serve as a Ghost option for Improofing Slaking as well as itself.
Gengar alone Improofed 1/2 your team! :)
________
Also, if you move Knock Off from Arceus-Fairy, and give it a Judgment Fairy Plate, not only can it threaten opposing Dragon, Fighting, etc. Pokemon, but it would also make Gengar-Mega Improof that as well (since Imposter doesn’t pack Pixie Plate). This lets Gengar-Mega block Imposter Prankster Defog, in addition to the Rapid Spin and Imposter Defog attempts.
Now, Gengar Improofs 2/3 of your team!
—————
Lastly, Blissey could be replaced by Ice Scales Yveltal
Yveltal @ Heavy-Duty boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
IVs: 0 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-Turn
- Topsy Turvy
You can handle many things while your Improofed via Arceus-Fairy, and can remove your flying typing when it suits you, such as Vs Tyranitar-Mega. Since it blocks Prankster, it could also serve as a Defog blocker on your opponent’s Imposter Arceus.
Topsy-Turvey works well against setup, and even against Rapid Spin Pokemon like Ho-Oh. I like it because unlike Haze, it takes 2 turns to undo.
Lastly, Yveltal makes it come full circle by handling some sets of MMY, Gengar-Mega, and STAB Knock Off serving as a General utility move, so Arceus doesn’t need to use it.
—————
Now that Yveltal has Topsy-Turvy just replace Haze on Zygarde-Complete with Nuzzle. It’s a move that can diminish the opponents momentum via Speed drop, paralysis, and it doesn’t hurt you if Imposter comes in. I don’t know what Body Press does, but we don’t need another Gengar-Improofed mon, so let’s try Thousand Waves and self-Improof via PP Stall, while also trapping PDon, and others that don’t typically pack U-Turn.
Team; https://pokepast.es/333e047dd9171c8d
AllTerrainVen0moth
Banned deucer.
If sturdy Shedinja is such a problem, why not just ban the combination of the two? Both of them arent broken by themselves, and Shedinja doesnt have Wonder Guard either.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Yay! I am glad I helped!
Gyarados-Mega works great and has a better Defensive Type and higher Attack! Good job. I tried it with a Gyarados-Mega and I liked it better.
Also, one thing I tried was swapping out Rayquaza-Mega for Thundurus-Therian.
It gets STAB Parabolic Charge so it is more powerful than Giga Drain. After a single Tail Glow it KOs Kyogre-Primal, Ho-Oh, and of course it can 1HKO Ash-Greninja without the boost.
252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Greninja-Ash: 322-382 (92.5 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
(Secure 1HKO with Stealth Rocks).
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Careful Nature
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Secret Sword
- Parabolic Charge
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 421-499 (104.2 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It can also stop Prankster Arceus-Water:
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Water: 523-616 (117.7 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And unlike Rayquaza-Mega, it only has 2 weaknesses, the uncommon Rock, and the more common Ice.
Thundurus-Therian overall has a great typing, is able to score KOs that Triage Rayquaza and even Charizard-Mega-Y cannot due to STAB Parabolic charge, and even niche picks that can catch you off guard like Aerodactyl-Mega, Celesteela, etc.
Rayquaza has more durability for neutral hits and has more resists, but the focus on damage usually matters more, and at least Triage Rayquaza’s Oblivion Wing is resisted by Thundurus-Therian, so if you end up with your Thundurus-Therian Vs their Triage Rayquaza you will actually win bc you resist their Flying STAB. :)
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Dumping my BH teams here. I'm not really the best at explanation, so I'll just leave this paste for anyone willing to go through my building and shovel out a good one.
I'm gonna dump my teams too and hopefully this will give me some motivation to build more teams in this meta. Most of these I used in the recent tour and are pretty solid on the ladder, just be careful with the last two cause they aren't super consistent. I don't feel like typing out explanations of each team at the moment, but if you have questions about any of them hit me up on discord or something.
None of the teams I used are particularly good but I'll drop them off anyways. There are a couple cool sets in here dragged down by poor teambuilding and some less cool sets.
https://pokepast.es/025088a71c0e8c5b
https://pokepast.es/f1e7bce8199cad99
https://pokepast.es/fdac846bacc73f0f
https://pokepast.es/025088a71c0e8c5b
https://pokepast.es/f1e7bce8199cad99
https://pokepast.es/fdac846bacc73f0f
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
One Improof I have been trying is Adaptability Pursuit Choice Band Tyranitar-Mega for Lunala (including 1HKO Chansey Eviolite Imposter) to score gauranteed KOs.
They make an excellent core for obvious typing reasons, and also pair nicely with Eternatus so it can cover additional types like Water, Bug, and as a backup to Fighting.
Tyranitar-Mega with Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Diamond Storm, and Wicked Blow work well (Knock Off isn’t bad but loses so much power after the item is gone, and didn’t threaten Grisceous Orb Giratina enough). Pursuit CB Adaptability Tar-Mega if Giratina doesn’t switch out is a 2HKO, and I’m pretty impressed with the results, catching Specs MMY, and Sucker Punching Gengar-Mega before Secret Sword.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Wicked Blow
- Sucker Punch
- Diamond Storm
Lunala @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Haze
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
Haze clears, while Recover can stall for passive burn damage.
W-o-W works as a last sting before Parting Shot, holding the Z-Crystal cuts down Knock Off significantly.
Parting Shot works well with the Z-Crystal for a full heal, triggering even before entry Hazards damage, and enabling your teammates to flourish.
I sometimes use 2 Prankster Parting Shot users for constantly forcing switches, and racking up entry hazard damage, creating a gradual defensive core.
Tyranitar-Mega can come in on Imposter’s Parting Shot, thanks to its Dark-type, and block it, while following up with a Pursuit for the KO. Lunala also resists MMX pretty well thanks to its Psychic type resisting Photon Geyser, just watch out for Spectral Thief and Wicked Blow, albeit if W-o-W doesn’t land first.
————-
TOTAL EDIT MADNESS UPDATE FOR SEPTEMBER 2020!
Wheew!
After speaking with Chessking345 over Discord, I have to say I adore my new Slaking set!
He was all, like basically, kinda “Pursuit works great with like Extreme Speed” on Normalize sets — after I said I like “how Obstruct works great with Pursuit”, I put those two twogether and made a set that uses Fishious Rend to be extra vicious!
It’s #AbsolutelyFabulous!
Replay... Yay!
Total Slay King
#Sliving Slay King (Slaking) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Obstruct
- Pursuit
- Fishious Rend
- Extreme Speed
Start with powerful hit, finish with a priority hit. If they attempt to escape, don’t let them, and opt for Pursuit. And if they dare attack you, go for the block. It’ll make them take double damage the next turn.
They make an excellent core for obvious typing reasons, and also pair nicely with Eternatus so it can cover additional types like Water, Bug, and as a backup to Fighting.
Tyranitar-Mega with Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Diamond Storm, and Wicked Blow work well (Knock Off isn’t bad but loses so much power after the item is gone, and didn’t threaten Grisceous Orb Giratina enough). Pursuit CB Adaptability Tar-Mega if Giratina doesn’t switch out is a 2HKO, and I’m pretty impressed with the results, catching Specs MMY, and Sucker Punching Gengar-Mega before Secret Sword.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Wicked Blow
- Sucker Punch
- Diamond Storm
Lunala @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Haze
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
Haze clears, while Recover can stall for passive burn damage.
W-o-W works as a last sting before Parting Shot, holding the Z-Crystal cuts down Knock Off significantly.
Parting Shot works well with the Z-Crystal for a full heal, triggering even before entry Hazards damage, and enabling your teammates to flourish.
I sometimes use 2 Prankster Parting Shot users for constantly forcing switches, and racking up entry hazard damage, creating a gradual defensive core.
Tyranitar-Mega can come in on Imposter’s Parting Shot, thanks to its Dark-type, and block it, while following up with a Pursuit for the KO. Lunala also resists MMX pretty well thanks to its Psychic type resisting Photon Geyser, just watch out for Spectral Thief and Wicked Blow, albeit if W-o-W doesn’t land first.
————-
TOTAL EDIT MADNESS UPDATE FOR SEPTEMBER 2020!
Wheew!
After speaking with Chessking345 over Discord, I have to say I adore my new Slaking set!
He was all, like basically, kinda “Pursuit works great with like Extreme Speed” on Normalize sets — after I said I like “how Obstruct works great with Pursuit”, I put those two twogether and made a set that uses Fishious Rend to be extra vicious!
It’s #AbsolutelyFabulous!
Replay... Yay!
Total Slay King
#Sliving Slay King (Slaking) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Obstruct
- Pursuit
- Fishious Rend
- Extreme Speed
Start with powerful hit, finish with a priority hit. If they attempt to escape, don’t let them, and opt for Pursuit. And if they dare attack you, go for the block. It’ll make them take double damage the next turn.
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VR Slate 2 has concluded. Here are the results:
Additions
Salamence-Mega: UR -> D
Mega Salamence was nominated for being a weaker alternative to Rayquaza that has superior bulk and speed tier which allows it to check Primal Groudon.
Rises
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: A+ -> S
Mega Mewtwo Y is easily the meta's best offensive mon, with Magic Guard being highly resistant to chip damage and able to pick and choose its counters through the choice of coverage moves and Psychic Surge having incredible raw power. Other sets like Sheer Force and Poison Heal, while less common, are still threatening as well.
Arceus-Water: A+ -> S-
Arceus-Water is one of the meta's best defensive mon being able to check a plethora of threats such as Primal Groudon, Darmanitan-GZ, and Ash Greninja all while not being passive thanks to STAB moves in Scald and Fishious Rend.
Groudon-Primal: A+ -> S-
Primal Groudon is a very strong role compressor in being a threatening wallbreaker that can force switches, a formidable hazard setter, and a solid physical blanket check against threats such as Greninja-Ash, Darmanitan-GZ, and can 1v1 most other threats as well.
Arceus-Fairy: A -> S-
Arceus-Fairy's unique typing leaves it with weaknesses to uncommon moves in the meta with the decline of Sunsteel Strike. This combined with its high natural bulk and speed tier makes it just edge out Xerneas by its vastly superior defensive utility. It is very difficult to pressure Fairyceus effectively before it heals back up.
Arceus-Ghost: A- -> A
Arceus-Ghost is the best offensive Arceus forme, having great defensive utility on offensive teams while being a threatening setup sweeper itself.
Ho-Oh: A- -> A
Ho-Oh is a splashable defensive pick that synergizes well with other common mons like Arceus-Water and Zygarde-C, notably being a fantastic check to Fairy-types and having strong offensive presence as well through sets like Aerilate.
Zamazenta-Crowned: B+ -> A-
Zamazenta-C is the best Steel-type not Arceus-Steel thanks to its excellent bulk and speed tier, allowing it to outspeed and force out threats like Diancie.
Charizard-Mega-Y: C -> B-
Scizor-Mega: D -> C
Drops
Blissey: S -> A+
Blissey's massive base HP makes it a great Imposter user, but compared to Chansey it lacks the ability to boost itself with Eviolite and the ability to bluff its held item. It holds a place in the meta on double Imposter teams or teams running non-Imposter Chansey but it just isn't quite as good at the job as Chansey is.
Tyranitar-Mega: B -> B-
Lugia: B -> C
Beedrill-Mega: B- -> C
Magearna: B- -> C
Zamazenta: B- -> D
Celesteela: C -> D
Registeel: C -> D
Sableye-Mega: D -> UR
Additionally, council has decided to split the C ranking and clean up the lower tiers. Here are the results of that:
Rises
Arceus: C -> C+
Kangaskhan-Mega: C -> C+
Kyurem-Black: C -> C+
Zacian: C -> C+
Blaziken-Mega: D -> C-
Cresselia: D -> C-
Giratina-Origin: D -> C-
Rayquaza: D -> C-
Venusaur-Mega: D -> C-
Drops
Dialga: B- -> C+
Audino-Mega: C -> C-
Chansey: C -> C-
Ferrothorn: C -> C-
Arceus-Bug: D -> UR
Arceus-Electric: D -> UR
Arceus-Grass: D -> UR
Buzzwole: D -> UR
Pheromosa: D -> UR
Additionally, we are considering a quickban/suspect on Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak. These two moves have incredibly high BP with almost no downside, and they are the catalyst that have made Greninja-Ash, MMY, and Zacian-Crowned so centralizing as attackers.
We have determined that the moves and not the primary abusers of the moves are the outlying elements. Running FR and BB comes with low risk because of their high base power and excellent neutral coverage against much of the metagame, as well as that they can be coupled with other moves to muscle past common switch-ins. On the other hand, teams with these abusers are often forced to run imposter-proofing methods that can falter during the long game, such as forgoing recovery moves. Defensive cores do have solid checks, such as Fur Coat Zygarde-C, Fur Coat Eternatus, Prankster, and Primal Groudon. Offensive teams are often built to outspeed the common abusers with extremely fast Pokemon or priority moves, halving their damage (albeit they can have a lot of trouble with Zacian-C, who is one of the fastest mons in the tier and has a combination of good bulk and resistances to almost all relevant priority options).
We believe it's fair that the community has agency in discussing the future of such influential moves to the metagame, and we also believe that action should be taken on this sooner rather than later. With the only difference between the two moves being typing, it only makes sense to assess them together. You can choose either to quickban the moves if you believe that the metagame is unhealthy with them around, or run a suspect if you want to defend or explore their legitimacy more.
Additions
Salamence-Mega: UR -> DMega Salamence was nominated for being a weaker alternative to Rayquaza that has superior bulk and speed tier which allows it to check Primal Groudon.
Rises
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: A+ -> SMega Mewtwo Y is easily the meta's best offensive mon, with Magic Guard being highly resistant to chip damage and able to pick and choose its counters through the choice of coverage moves and Psychic Surge having incredible raw power. Other sets like Sheer Force and Poison Heal, while less common, are still threatening as well.
Arceus-Water is one of the meta's best defensive mon being able to check a plethora of threats such as Primal Groudon, Darmanitan-GZ, and Ash Greninja all while not being passive thanks to STAB moves in Scald and Fishious Rend.
Groudon-Primal: A+ -> S-Primal Groudon is a very strong role compressor in being a threatening wallbreaker that can force switches, a formidable hazard setter, and a solid physical blanket check against threats such as Greninja-Ash, Darmanitan-GZ, and can 1v1 most other threats as well.
Arceus-Fairy's unique typing leaves it with weaknesses to uncommon moves in the meta with the decline of Sunsteel Strike. This combined with its high natural bulk and speed tier makes it just edge out Xerneas by its vastly superior defensive utility. It is very difficult to pressure Fairyceus effectively before it heals back up.
Arceus-Ghost is the best offensive Arceus forme, having great defensive utility on offensive teams while being a threatening setup sweeper itself.
Ho-Oh: A- -> AHo-Oh is a splashable defensive pick that synergizes well with other common mons like Arceus-Water and Zygarde-C, notably being a fantastic check to Fairy-types and having strong offensive presence as well through sets like Aerilate.
Zamazenta-Crowned: B+ -> A-Zamazenta-C is the best Steel-type not Arceus-Steel thanks to its excellent bulk and speed tier, allowing it to outspeed and force out threats like Diancie.
Charizard-Mega-Y: C -> B- Scizor-Mega: D -> CDrops
Blissey: S -> A+Blissey's massive base HP makes it a great Imposter user, but compared to Chansey it lacks the ability to boost itself with Eviolite and the ability to bluff its held item. It holds a place in the meta on double Imposter teams or teams running non-Imposter Chansey but it just isn't quite as good at the job as Chansey is.
Tyranitar-Mega: B -> B- Lugia: B -> C Beedrill-Mega: B- -> C Magearna: B- -> C Zamazenta: B- -> D Celesteela: C -> D Registeel: C -> D Sableye-Mega: D -> URAdditionally, council has decided to split the C ranking and clean up the lower tiers. Here are the results of that:
Rises
Arceus: C -> C+ Kangaskhan-Mega: C -> C+ Kyurem-Black: C -> C+ Zacian: C -> C+ Blaziken-Mega: D -> C- Cresselia: D -> C- Giratina-Origin: D -> C- Rayquaza: D -> C- Venusaur-Mega: D -> C-Drops
Dialga: B- -> C+ Audino-Mega: C -> C- Chansey: C -> C- Ferrothorn: C -> C-
Buzzwole: D -> UR Pheromosa: D -> UR Additionally, we are considering a quickban/suspect on Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak. These two moves have incredibly high BP with almost no downside, and they are the catalyst that have made Greninja-Ash, MMY, and Zacian-Crowned so centralizing as attackers.
We have determined that the moves and not the primary abusers of the moves are the outlying elements. Running FR and BB comes with low risk because of their high base power and excellent neutral coverage against much of the metagame, as well as that they can be coupled with other moves to muscle past common switch-ins. On the other hand, teams with these abusers are often forced to run imposter-proofing methods that can falter during the long game, such as forgoing recovery moves. Defensive cores do have solid checks, such as Fur Coat Zygarde-C, Fur Coat Eternatus, Prankster, and Primal Groudon. Offensive teams are often built to outspeed the common abusers with extremely fast Pokemon or priority moves, halving their damage (albeit they can have a lot of trouble with Zacian-C, who is one of the fastest mons in the tier and has a combination of good bulk and resistances to almost all relevant priority options).
We believe it's fair that the community has agency in discussing the future of such influential moves to the metagame, and we also believe that action should be taken on this sooner rather than later. With the only difference between the two moves being typing, it only makes sense to assess them together. You can choose either to quickban the moves if you believe that the metagame is unhealthy with them around, or run a suspect if you want to defend or explore their legitimacy more.
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Personally i think rend/beak are fine additons and healthy for the meta overall,and would rather we get a suspect for them,they are kinda centralizing since u have to use them cuz they hit normally like other se moves but with smash already out of the picture defensive cores might be hard to break leading to longer games
Meanwhile here are some cool sets if u wana be a 90gxe boi
pls no ho-oh(Swampert) Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Thousand waves
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Purify
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bolt Beak
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
I have tried some other shit but these are the ones that had most success in ladder,for defensive cores i do well with FC+scales+prank+1-2 Imposter +w/e
Meanwhile here are some cool sets if u wana be a 90gxe boi
pls no ho-oh(Swampert) Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Thousand waves
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Purify
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bolt Beak
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
I have tried some other shit but these are the ones that had most success in ladder,for defensive cores i do well with FC+scales+prank+1-2 Imposter +w/e
Fishious and Bolt Beak are both highly powerful options. Bolt Beak is best as coverage, while Fishious is incredibly powerful as STAB. Both of them are 170 power moves with essentially no drawbacks. V-Create is absurdly strong, but it's balanced by its downside of lowering Speed as well as the user's defenses with each use. These options make Fur Coat or incredibly bulky resists near essential on defensive teams to keep from being shredded by them. I will say that I think Bolt Beak is far more splashable, considering that most things physical or mixed appreciate strong Electric coverage, and thus they'll run it to nuke stuff that would otherwise take them on. Fishious has a few notable abusers in Arceus-Water, Gyarados-Mega, and Greninja as an absurdly powerful option due to hitting lots of stuff for neutral damage, but it's rarely run as coverage due to not really hitting a lot of major threats for SE damage (and lots of higher tier stuff that is hit by Fishious is also hit by Bolt Beak, making it just a far better option for coverage). I would say Bolt Beak is probably more of a problem than Fishious, as a result. Another thing to keep in mind is that neither one being removed would destroy its abusers too much, Bolt Strike, Volt Tackle, and even Plasma Fists are still solid moves on the physical Electric side, which means stuff that liked using it (such as Magic Guard MMY) won't be without a passable replacement, and Gren could run Surging Strikes on Banded sets (maybe giving Sniper a time to shine) or utilize a mixed set under Primordial Sea to keep going strong in the meta. In conclusion, I would cast my support to suspect test them individually from one another. I don't think a quickban is warranted here, but I think they do at least deserve to be looked at and have careful consideration as to whether or not their inclusion is truly overcentralizing.
my thoughts on fishious beak.
I do believe that bolt Rend can be unfun to fight against due to the low risk of clicking it. It's also caused pokemon like Ash greninja to skyrocket when they would be very mediocre otherwise. In addition to this most abusers have either incredible speed or ways of forcing them to switch and give a boost.
All thins considered I suggest a quickban
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
I think we should quick ban Fishous, Suspect Bolt Beak.
There is no equivalent Ash-Greninja for Electric-types, and that makes it harder to abuse, there is a natural immunity to it in Ground-typing, shared by common Pokémon like Zygarde-C, and Groudon-P.
You cannot argue that Desolate Land counts as a complete check for certain, bc you could slow pivot in the Primordial Sea user and nullify it by coming in next. So it’s a draw for those abilities.
Lets call a spade a spade: Fishious is vicious.
We don’t see STAB Electric Bolt Beak abusers besides Zekrom, since it’s the only electric with decent Atk, and he isn’t that popular. Fishous is seen on Greninja and we have other abusers like Shift Gear Gyrados-Mega, scarf Kyogre-P, and Shift Gear Swampert-Mega all able to use it if they want.
Even Arceus-Water can use it, and rose up the ranks as a necessity to handle it.
By comparison, Arceus-Electric just became Unranked.
Bolt Beak is coverage, not overpowered STAB that pushes it over the edge.
Some moves are great, but it’s ultimately the Pokémon that can use them that make them overpowered.
With Bolt Beak, who pushes it over the edge? Maybe a suspect can tell us if it even is.
With Fishious Rend, we already know the answer.
There is no equivalent Ash-Greninja for Electric-types, and that makes it harder to abuse, there is a natural immunity to it in Ground-typing, shared by common Pokémon like Zygarde-C, and Groudon-P.
You cannot argue that Desolate Land counts as a complete check for certain, bc you could slow pivot in the Primordial Sea user and nullify it by coming in next. So it’s a draw for those abilities.
Lets call a spade a spade: Fishious is vicious.
We don’t see STAB Electric Bolt Beak abusers besides Zekrom, since it’s the only electric with decent Atk, and he isn’t that popular. Fishous is seen on Greninja and we have other abusers like Shift Gear Gyrados-Mega, scarf Kyogre-P, and Shift Gear Swampert-Mega all able to use it if they want.
Even Arceus-Water can use it, and rose up the ranks as a necessity to handle it.
By comparison, Arceus-Electric just became Unranked.
Bolt Beak is coverage, not overpowered STAB that pushes it over the edge.
Some moves are great, but it’s ultimately the Pokémon that can use them that make them overpowered.
With Bolt Beak, who pushes it over the edge? Maybe a suspect can tell us if it even is.
With Fishious Rend, we already know the answer.
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- Status