Monotype Viability Rankings

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Hello!

Armaldo from A to S rank on bug.


Honestly, anything I say could probably apply to forretress as well but I like armaldo because it had performed a bit better for any recent bug team I've made. The main idea behind this nomination is that there isn't a spinner in the S rankings for bug and rapid spin is an extremely important aspect of a bug team and is an absolute must for any bug team. I can't really dive into any details where armaldo will be giving players a good matchup against this that and the next thing but it simply does arguably the most important job for a bug team besides smashing shit. It learns rapid spin.

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 212 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Aqua Jet
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock


This is the spD set I usually run on my bug teams. Just kinda throw everything into HP and spD so I can take an emergency hit to get off a last ditch spin. Maldo has decent natural physical bulk so thats why I invest heavily in spD. I just threw the last 48 into attack to make it less passive. Thats another plus to running maldo as well, it does act as kinda the really only bulky mon on a bug team but it isn't horrendously passive with a 100bp stab move.

Other options include an AV set that I have never run but it has been pulled off before so that would work too. You would just have to have another hazard setter with it.
 
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Hello!

Armaldo from A to S rank on bug.


Honestly, anything I say could probably apply to forretress as well but I like armaldo because it had performed a bit better for any recent bug team I've made. The main idea behind this nomination is that there isn't a spinner in the S rankings for bug and rapid spin is an extremely important aspect of a bug team and is an absolute must for any bug team. I can't really dive into any details where armaldo will be giving players a good matchup against this that and the next thing but it simply does arguably the most important job for a bug team besides smashing shit. It learns rapid spin.

Edit: ill post some sets in a bit.
Spinning is very important, and it can occasionally Aleiviate a fire matchup, the con is tho I don't feel like it defines bug, granted it heavily influences it in teambuilding, but think of it this way. Volcarona is a mon that us used on every bug team, amazing offensive typing, and a great fire neutral/set up sweeper. Tbh, I just feel like s rank is too high, Armaldo is definitely A+ tho.
 
Spinning is very important, and it can occasionally Aleiviate a fire matchup, the con is tho I don't feel like it defines bug, granted it heavily influences it in teambuilding, but think of it this way. Volcarona is a mon that us used on every bug team, amazing offensive typing, and a great fire neutral/set up sweeper. Tbh, I just feel like s rank is too high, Armaldo is definitely A+ tho.
How does spin not define bug? Without spin the things like volcarona and pinsir wouldn't be able to perform the way they perform. Yea Maldo may not offer all that much else outside of controlling hazards but since controlling hazards is an extremely important factor for bug, I sincerely believe maldo should break the barrier because without it or any other spinner, A bug team wouldn't be able to function.
 
How does spin not define bug? Without spin the things like volcarona and pinsir wouldn't be able to perform the way they perform. Yea Maldo may not offer all that much else outside of controlling hazards but since controlling hazards is an extremely important factor for bug, I sincerely believe maldo should break the barrier because without it or any other spinner, A bug team wouldn't be able to function.
No, but you should note as well it doesn't rly have recovery either, once it's out (which isn't a hard task typically), if hazards are up, you're in a bit of a pickle. Spin itself definitely is a must on any good bug team, Armaldo however is not I don't think, that's why I'm kinda arguing against the notion.
 
No, but you should note as well it doesn't rly have recovery either, once it's out (which isn't a hard task typically), if hazards are up, you're in a bit of a pickle. Spin itself definitely is a must on any good bug team, Armaldo however is not I don't think, that's why I'm kinda arguing against the notion.
Dog you gotta read what I'm typing. I literally said in my follow up that maldo doesn't offer much else besides hazard control but since it's probably the best form of it, it deserves to be S rank because without hazard control a bug team simply just can't function. That fact kinda outweighs any aspect of an S rank mon in my eyes because it is basically required for a bug team to function whether it has any other good qualities or not.

I'm not sure if you are trying to tell me that a bug team doesn't need hazard control to function or that you know of a better spinner than armaldo or forry. I really hope you aren't trying to tell me that a bug team doesn't need hazard control because that would make me pretty upset. Idk, yeah you said a bug team need hazard control but you're confusing the heck out of me because ur making it sound like there is some non existant mon out there that isnt maldo or forry that provides it. If they aren't neccessary on a bug team then what is?
 
Dog you gotta read what I'm typing. I literally said in my follow up that maldo doesn't offer much else besides hazard control but since it's probably the best form of it, it deserves to be S rank because without hazard control a bug team simply just can't function. That fact kinda outweighs any aspect of an S rank mon in my eyes because it is basically required for a bug team to function whether it has any other good qualities or not.

I'm not sure if you are trying to tell me that a bug team doesn't need hazard control to function or that you know of a better spinner than armaldo or forry. I really hope you aren't trying to tell me that a bug team doesn't need hazard control because that would make me pretty upset. Idk, yeah you said a bug team need hazard control but you're confusing the heck out of me because ur making it sound like there is some non existant mon out there that isnt maldo or forry that provides it. If they aren't neccessary on a bug team then what is?
That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm trying to say is despite Spinning being a must for any good bug team, I'm saying Armaldo and Forry otherwise are not S ranked mons.

Maybe think of it this way, ice is another type that needs hazard control in order to work, avalugg can not only do that, but thanks to its amazing defense it has the ability to check a wide range of physical threats. So does that mean since Cryogonal has rapid spin, it should be S ranked as well? That would be kinda silly given it has its notable flaws, including terrible defense. Granted, I'm not saying Armaldo is as bad as that, what I'm saying is Rapid Spin alone should not make it an S ranked mon.
 
Anttya After you changed the format of the viability rankings you seem to have gotten rid of all the rank defintions (S, A, etc)
I removed them because they were pretty confusing and poorly written. I only had them as a guideline at the beginning but now things should be easier to rank.
 
That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm trying to say is despite Spinning being a must for any good bug team, I'm saying Armaldo and Forry otherwise are not S ranked mons.

Maybe think of it this way, ice is another type that needs hazard control in order to work, avalugg can not only do that, but thanks to its amazing defense it has the ability to check a wide range of physical threats. So does that mean since Cryogonal has rapid spin, it should be S ranked as well? That would be kinda silly given it has its notable flaws, including terrible defense. Granted, I'm not saying Armaldo is as bad as that, what I'm saying is Rapid Spin alone should not make it an S ranked mon.
The problem with your argument is that cryagonal faces competition with avalugg. There is no other competition between forry and armaldo and there is no other mon to compete against them. One isn't really that much better than the other either. It comes down to personal preferance. I tend to lean maldo but forry does the job just as well too so theres a case for forry as well.

Your argument is completely different because there is absolutely no reason not to use avalugg and there is no reason to use cryag because you have the option to use the ice table.

Maldo and forry are similar to just avalugg itself. They are an absolute necessity on a bug team. And forry fits your description of avalugg quite well so you in a sense proved my point for me. All the more reason im pushing for a bump on one of them.
 
The problem with your argument is that cryagonal faces competition with avalugg. There is no other competition between forry and armaldo and there is no other mon to compete against them. One isn't really that much better than the other either. It comes down to personal preferance. I tend to lean maldo but forry does the job just as well too so theres a case for forry as well.

Your argument is completely different because there is absolutely no reason not to use avalugg and there is no reason to use cryag because you have the option to use the ice table.

Maldo and forry are similar to just avalugg itself. They are an absolute necessity on a bug team. And forry fits your description of avalugg quite well so you in a sense proved my point for me. All the more reason im pushing for a bump on one of them.
If it's alright I'm just gonna tag Anttya and Sae Sae to decide this one, I don't want to flood more about this lol, I kinda made my opinion clear and so did you, we'll let them decide.
 
1) Viability rankings: Durant (bug) unranked -> C, Druddigon (dragon) D -> C, Ditto (normal) B -> A

IMO Armaldo is fine in A, all falls down Toxicroak is fine C, if not B. Shiftry should be B on grass, Defog priority and physical rock versus flying/fire deserves it.

2) Cores: Lots of them are waay outdated, like KyuW, Greninja, CharX, Genesect are there. Let's submit new cores to replace old ones?
 
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I wonder why Breloom is in S rank when the the thread/explanation linked to its position of it actually suggests it as an A rank.

I agree Breloom should be A ranked as well (since it is flaws often make it a bit more dependant of team support from its team, and it isn't as meta-defining as a S rank mon should be). Not sure if that's a issue or someone really intended to put it as S rank, but the fact still remains that it should go down.

I don't know whether the viability ranking post is the latest one or not, the one made by Anttya, but it is the one the first post in the thread refers to.

Also reserving this post for more viability ranking suggestions.
 
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Mega Scizor from A to S rank on Steel

It took me a bit to think about this nom but I think mega sciz does in fact fit the definition of an S rank mon. I tend to look at things like risk reward factor, a mons versatility, its affect on teambuilding, and how splashable said mon is.

Risk Reward Factor: There really is no risk nor a reason not to use this as your mega on a steel team unless you're rocking stall steel which is pretty non existent in the current meta. But yeah sciz brings so much to a steel team it's not even funny. There is simply just no reason not to use it. It provides a wincon, much needed priority, good typing and movepool offensively with access to moves like knock off and superpower. It also has a good defensive typing as well being neutral to fighting and ground which can let it take an emergency hit if need be. Technician is a fantastic ability to boost moves like bullet punch and bug bite. All of those factors make scizor a mon that has a very high reward factor to a low risk factor which I think is a key element for an S rank mon.

Versatility: It may not seem like it, but mega sciz can have a bit of a surprise factor and versatility. You can alternate between a more bulky sweeper build with roost and more evs thrown into bulk, or you could make it a faster sweeper to really hammer balance builds with more evs thrown into speed and an added coverage move. The speed can get people sometimes and the extra power added into its bullet punches is very noticeable which give its sweeping capabilities a boost.

Affect on Teambuilding: I think scizor has a pretty large affect on teambuilding as a whole. At least for me, it is usually a mon that depending on what type im using is always in the back of my mind when building. Types like dragon, psy, and dark for example all are pretty threatened by it. Dragon needs to have a backup check besides chomp to handle it because chomp is pressed to check a lot of stuff on steel so you will also probably need a hydreigon with fire coverage on your team to handle it or maybe HP fire on a latias. Having a backup check for sciz on psy is pretty necessary so tini isn't extremely pressured to only check it. mega sciz is a main reason why mandibuzz's run foul play. Without it, a dark team would struggle against scizor. It's just one of those mons that pops into players heads when building for a good amount of types.

Splashable: This aspect kinda goes hand in hand with the risk reward factor. There is really no reason not to use it because it provides a lot of support and versatility to a steel team. A steel team is miles better with it than without it due to the support it provides.

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower / Knock Off

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Atk / 36 Def / 188 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite / Knock Off
- Roost

The first one is a more offensive set that primarily focusing on clicking SD and just smashing away and the second set is a more bulkier set that generally takes multiple turns to set up and go. The EV spread on the second set can be customized but thats just a spread that I've had decent success with.
 
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Omega-Xis

Mauville's Own
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Hello!

Armaldo from A to S rank on bug.


Honestly, anything I say could probably apply to forretress as well but I like armaldo because it had performed a bit better for any recent bug team I've made. The main idea behind this nomination is that there isn't a spinner in the S rankings for bug and rapid spin is an extremely important aspect of a bug team and is an absolute must for any bug team. I can't really dive into any details where armaldo will be giving players a good matchup against this that and the next thing but it simply does arguably the most important job for a bug team besides smashing shit. It learns rapid spin.

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 212 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Aqua Jet
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock


This is the spD set I usually run on my bug teams. Just kinda throw everything into HP and spD so I can take an emergency hit to get off a last ditch spin. Maldo has decent natural physical bulk so thats why I invest heavily in spD. I just threw the last 48 into attack to make it less passive. Thats another plus to running maldo as well, it does act as kinda the really only bulky mon on a bug team but it isn't horrendously passive with a 100bp stab move.

Other options include an AV set that I have never run but it has been pulled off before so that would work too. You would just have to have another hazard setter with it.
I know it's a bit late but I'm going to have to agree with this. Armaldo just fits the offensive nature of Bug where Forretress does not... And it's a real threat in a very bad matchup against Fire. Thing performs decently well against Zard Y. Another common argument I see for Forretress is that it handles Scarf Terrakion easily. Yeah well... Scizor does the same thing with a physically defensive set and offers more offensive presence than Forretress.

Really what this boils down to is, is that Armaldo can offer different things than Forretress can, minimizing Forre's value since Scizor can do it's job and has reliable recovery in the form of Roost.

Wanka I've used the Ass Vest set myself, very nice. Can take like 4-5 flamethrowers from Zard Y (update - I remembered that was out of Sun lol)... Thing is straight savage.
 
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Omega-Xis

Mauville's Own
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I just thought it should be noted that Durant isn't even on the viability rankings for Bug and I think that needs to be changed! I recently built a team in the Teambuilding Workshop and I really liked what I see from the little steel bug. It's a huge threat to Fire teams and if you keep it healthy enough, Acrobatics from Fletch won't clean it. Here's a few sets below:


Durant @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Swords Dance


While I recommended the Scarf set on the team I made, LO is also absurdly powerful. The first move I dropped was X-Scissor; I think all the other moves offer far more of a niche than the STAB from X-Scissor. Iron Head dents Ice, Rock and Fairy types, Rock Slide hits Flying and Fire Types in addition, and Superpower dents most Steel mons, bar Doublade.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 191-226 (57.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's insane how hard it hits. The only other thing I'd note is you could run Lum for Prankster mons and Crunch also provides insanely hard-hitting coverage against Ghost.

Overall, I was debating whether or not I thought it was deserving of B rank or C rank. I think I'm leaning B rank as of right now, mainly because lumping it with Beedrill Mega and Vivillon seems criminal in my mind. I understand that it's mostly an afterthought because of Scizor, but I think the little guy has some of a niche and I think he's underrated. I think I'm actually going to try and start building more Bug teams with him just to test things out (probably Steel too!).
 
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Twix

jicama
is a Contributor Alumnus
Remove Aegislash Anttya

I'm also thinking that Doublade may rise in Ghost viability but there's barely been any testing done
 
Vivillon from C to B on Bug

The fuel behind this post is the most recent CC challenge. Vivillon was part of the bug core for this challenge and I had never used viv on my bug teams before so I decided to try it out. I ended up getting platinum for that challenge and viv was actually a key member to the team and it performed way better than its rank so that is what led me to this nom.

Vivillon isn't necessarily the most versatile mon in terms of being able to run a multitude of sets or moves. Quite frankly, it simply has no versatility but, it is extremely good at what it does and it doesn't really need to necessarily be versatile or unpredictable to be effective. it's more along the lines of, "you know whats coming but can you stop it?" The set I used and most likely the only set that will give a bug team any support. it's a sash attacker set.


Vivillon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz / Giga Drain

oddly enough, throughout my entire CC run I thought I was running timid the whole time but I was actually running modest. I'm almost positive I ran into some speed troubles even with webs up that I wouldn't have ran into with timid but I still had success with modest so as long as you can sustain webs, it will still be effective. Like I said, it's a straight forward set but it's just really good at what it does. When you think of what bug tends to struggle with, its along the lines of threats that can out speed anything on bug and can take advantage of bug being a horrendous defensive typing. Vivillon does a really nice job at being a reliable mon in the back to hault those threats in their tracks. Something like a hawlucha that has the potential to just eat bug teams alive is quick checked by viv. Terrackion is a threat? Don't worry frens, you got big bug in the back to put it to sleep or take it out with a hurricane if it's in range. This also means that if viv finds its way in healthy on a weakened mon then you are really sitting pretty because you can just pick off the weakened mon and then whatever ur opp tries to send in to revenge, just just put to sleep or hurricaned to the nose. Those types of moments can open up holes in opposing teams and just bring tremendous amount of support to bug teams. Another thing it provides is that crucial flying STAB for a bug team that lacks mega pins for someone like me who prefers mega cross 90% of the time. Makes the bug v fighting match up a lot easier.

Now, lets not get to ahead of ourselves. After all, this is just a B rank nom and there are still flaws to viv. If at any point in a battle you fail to keep rocks off then it is pretty much useless. It has some of the poorest bulk I've ever seen and it is vulnerable to any priority move in the book. It has an awkward speed tier to say the least. Falls just short of 90s but can outspeed base 85 mons with a timid nature. It also isn't going to be severly denting anything with a wolloping base 90 spA but like I said, it mainly helps against offensive builds that threaten bug so a 300 spA hurricane does the job.

REPLAYS:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-346750266 <<<<<<<<< I just sraight up lose to opposing pinsir bug builds and the only reason I actually won this game was because of viv. I was able to take out pinsir early with my sash still intact which opened up my opponents team to volc and galv.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-345914194 <<<<<<<<< I actually choked on dicks in this game and ended up losing because I was too lazy to calc giga drain on keldeo but I'm confident that if I had any sort of brain during this game I would've been fine. And again, the only reason I had any chance of winning this game was because I was able to quick check my opponents hawlucha with vivillion. This kept my scizor healthy for later in the game and yeah if I would've just sacked later on I would've definitely had a snack wrap.

good stuff.
 
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Im going to agree here with Stunfisk and disagree with Wanka and Omega-xis about Armaldo.
This is a quote from the OP:
Anttya said:
Pokemon are placed in either S, A, B, C, or D rank, with S only having Pokemon that can easily influence the game against a majority of type matchups
This is far of a suitable description of Armaldo. Its only niche is, similar to forretress, that of the bulky rapid spinner, while alleviating a bit the fire matchup. That role isn't absolutely essential nor necessary, like said Forretress accomplish the same job, or bulky defog scizor can be used too (in case you have mega pinsir)
I'm not saying Armaldo is bad, is just than it don't have that thing which the other S mons have.


Also moving Smeargle from C to B: (i could even suggest A becos trash like snorlax are in A)
Premising than smeargle is a suicide lead, it is perfect at what it does, it is like the complete package: It have a sleeping move which bypass grass types and overcoat mons (dark void), its the only Sticky Webs user in Normal, have rocks too obv and can go boom with Explosion to make opposing rapid spin / defog useless. Other options are Taunt or Nuzzle.
It pairs well with hard hitters like Porygon Z, Diggersby, Staraptor, Mega Lopunny, .. u name it.


Finally agreeing with Twix on this: (maybe i got some time to try testing it later)
Twix said:
I'm also thinking that Doublade may rise in Ghost viability but there's barely been any testing done

PD: Durant definitively needs be ranked on bug!!! Scarf puts on job, B seems nice.
 
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I've been meaning to fix some ranks for the last couple weeks because there's a few in particular that have seriously been bugging me for a while.

Normal:
Disagree with .Rawr! 's proposal to make Smeargle B rank. Chansey outclasses it as a hazards setter, and not to mention outside of Spore and Sticky Web, its really nothing special, and otherwise its useless. Leave that at C. The other ranks however I'm fine with.

Fighting:
Scrafty could be moved up to B rank because of the fact that it's completely immune to Psychic, and it can function as a bulky tank/in rare cases, a fast boosting sweeper w/ dragon dance. I'd also consider adding Pangoro to C rank for similar reasons.

Flying:
I think at this point its clear Char Y's weakness to SR is a bit burdensome. It's a fantastic wallbreaker, but that 1 fact hurts it, I'd move that down to A rank. Aerodactyl I'd move to B/A since its been used a ton with Hyper Offensive Flying, and he's a very fast Anti-Lead. I could also see Honchkrow being moved back up to A Rank since along with Dragonite, its the only viable* priority, and it's similar to Char Y in its role as a wallbreaker. I can see Dragonite being finally moved up to S rank because of its fantastic ability, and its role as a Physical Wallbreaker/DDance sweeper. It's usage can also back this proposal.

Poison:
Nidoqueen is great, but is she really S rank material? It and Nidoking are the only SR setters, but tbh they're equal in viability, it isn't on the same level as the 3 other S ranked mons. Move it back down to A rank.Weezing in C rank has been annoying the shit out of me; its a fantastic physical wall immune to ground, and access to Will-O-Wisp. Move that back up to A please. You could also rank up Mega Beedrill and Amoongus back to B. Mega Venusaur is generally the better mega, but Beedrill is still a fantastic offensive pivot, and can do serious work against psychic, while Amoongus has access to Spore, Stun Spore, and Foul Play, its generally a pretty good support mon.

Ground:
I agree with everything there, but I would definitely add Nidoking, and make him B/A Rank. He's a great special attacker with fantastic coverage.

Rock:
I'd personally move Rhyperior back up to A given its a great general check to a variety of threatening physical attackers, most notably Scizor. Mega Aerodactyl I'd also move back up to A rank--it's by no means on par with Aggron and Diancie, but its still a great fast attacker that can threaten both fighting and grass. I'd also consider moving up Tyrantrum up to B rank, as well as regular Aerodactyl.

Bug:
Agree with both of .Rawr! 's suggestions there. The rest is good.

Ghost:
Move regular Hoopa to at least B rank. It is a pretty powerful special attacker, and makes to be a pretty damn good AV user. I'd also move up Doublade to B because of Aegislash's ban. I'd also move Cofagrigus up to C rank, as I mentioned in an older write up, good defensive wall with an ability-cancelling ability, and not to mention trick room can be handy on a ghost team.

Steel:
Move Jirachi up to A rank, in general grants coverage against fighting, and can run a variety of great sets, most notably scarf. Registeel funny enough I would move up to C rank, its a pretty decent wall (ArkenCiel had success with it ages ago, it is usable.)

Fire: Zard Y has almost always been the only S ranked mon for the longest time. I think its time to move Infernape up--great mixed offenses, can do numbers vs Rock and Normal, and can run a variety of coverage that your team could use good examples being HP Ice, Grass Knot, Thunder Punch, ect). He also has the usage to back this. I think its worth considering. The rest however is good.

Water:
Feraligatr is good, I can't lie, but its generally outclassed as a Dragon Dance abuser. I'd move that down to B rank. I would also considering moving Mega Gyarados to S rank; relatively easy to set up, can also use a variety of coverage to fit the needs of a team (Bounce, Ice Fang, Moldbreaker EQ, ect), and can efficiently stop passive mons from ruining its set up w/ taunt/sub. It can also efficiently run a rest talk set for recovery.

Grass:
Please move Shiftry and Celebi back up. Shiftry helps a bunch against Psychic with Sucker Punch, and has access to STAB Knock Off, and Celebi's part Psychic typing is pretty helpful vs Poison especially. It can also run a variety of sets such as LO, Scarf, or Lead/Support. I'd vouch A rank for both, if not B rank for just Shiftry. As an additional addition, I would add Virizion to B Rank. It has the ability to check Mega Charizard Y, and Normal, it can also make as a good fast Physical Sweeper with SD. Choice Band/AV I've also found to be viable sets.

Electric:
I would move Luxray back up to A, extremey valuable Physical Attacker, can check Mega Sableye, and all around honestly just A rank material. I would also move Stunfisk up to C for the fact that its Electric's only SR setter (and tbh not a terrible 1).

Psychic:
Agree with everything there, you could consider however moving Mega Latias to A rank (incredibly bulky and dangerous CM booster).

Ice:
Mega Aboma and Mega Glalie are not C ranked. Both are very good in their own respective ways, Mega Aboma being able to summon hail, fire perfect accuracy Blizzard, and aleve the water matchup a bit, while Glalie is a fantastic Physical Wallbreaker (Double Edge 2KOs mons like Skarmory, and Explosion has a good chance to OHKO Ferrothorn, Porygon2, and other walls neutral to it after SR, and 2KO a ton of mons that resist it.). I'd also truthfully consider moving both Lapras and Walrein to A rank, as both can check Scizor most of the time if played right, and 1 helps a bunch against fire, the other against water.

Dragon:
Are we good to remove regular Latias from S rank, and lower it to A? Also, I wouldn't mind seeing Tyrantrum moved back up to B as its a good physical wallbreaker (and not to mention the strongest recoiless Head Smash in the game).

Dark:
Where's Mega Houndoom? Great fast attacker/wallbreaker especially vs Bug, put it at B for our good fren Dream Eater Gengar ! Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to move regular Sharpedo to B rank. Still a good fast mixed attacker with LO, and can do some late game cleans.

Fairy:
Nothing to be changed there.

Tagging Anttya to look over these. Thanks a bunch in advance! :)
 
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Im going to agree here with Stunfisk and disagree with Wanka and Omega-xis about Armaldo.
This is a quote from the OP:

This is far of a suitable description of Armaldo. Its only niche is, similar to forretress, that of the bulky rapid spinner, while alleviating a bit the fire matchup. That role isn't absolutely essential nor necessary, like said Forretress accomplish the same job, or bulky defog scizor can be used too (in case you have mega pinsir)
I'm not saying Armaldo is bad, is just than it don't have that thing which the other S mons have.


Also moving Smeargle from C to B: (i could even suggest A becos trash like snorlax are in A)
Premising than smeargle is a suicide lead, it is perfect at what it does, it is like the complete package: It have a sleeping move which bypass grass types and overcoat mons (dark void), its the only Sticky Webs user in Normal, have rocks too obv and can go boom with Explosion to make opposing rapid spin / defog useless. Other options are Taunt or Nuzzle.
It pairs well with hard hitters like Porygon Z, Diggersby, Staraptor, Mega Lopunny, .. u name it.


Finally agreeing with Twix on this: (maybe i got some time to try testing it later)



PD: Durant definitively needs be ranked on bug!!! Scarf puts on job, B seems nice.

First things first ill just clear up that snorlax isn't even A rank. It's B rank which is fine and A for smeargle is pushing it a but dont you think?

Also, a key part of my post about armaldo that if you actually read it you would've picked up on was that I came right out and said that Armaldo by no means fit the definition of an S rank mon so lets not call me out for something we both agree on.

I'm also going to ask you to think about a statement you put out. You essentially just told me that hazard control isn't a neccessity on bug teams. I will say this again, a bug team simply cannot, and will not function without hazard control. Saying that having it on a bug team is not essential makes me cry. Without rapid spin on bug teams, nothing would be able to function. Volcarona would not be able to do the things it does along with mons like pinsir, yanmega, vivillon, scoli, etc. That was more of my argument for it. That armaldo is the mon that simply makes a bug team functional, not that it necessarily is perfect for that S rank definition but the fact that bug teams ABSOLUTELY NEED IT IN ORDER TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF BEING SUCCESSFUL AND WITHOUT IT THEY WILL CRUMPLE INTO PIECES. IMO that completely voids any definition set for an S rank mon and should propel it into that status.

Ok so now lets dive into arma's competition. We'll start with defog scizor. Simply put, no. Forcing defog onto a scizor is not logical at all. Scizor needs to be able to do a lot of things for bug in terms of being able to revenge key threats that would threaten the crap out of bug while acting as a backup wincon and forcing defog on it hinders scizors ability to do those things. I'm somewhat with you on forretress. Like you said, they both fill the role of a bulky rapid spinner. Armaldo outclasses forry's bulky sets just a bit tho because of the offensive presence it does provide. It isn't much, but it is there. Forry is just an absolute momentum sink. And you can say "no it's not it gets volt switch so I can just pivot with it." Yes, you can, but you also have to control hazards before you can gain any kind of momentum and if you are constantly pivoting all the time than you will never be able to control hazards which doesn't spell a good time for any bug team. Armaldo isn't nearly as big of a momentum sink as forry is which Is why I put it just a bit above forry.

Ur going to have to give me more than "rapid spin isn't essential on bug teams."
 
First things first ill just clear up that snorlax isn't even A rank. It's B rank which is fine and A for smeargle is pushing it a but dont you think?

Also, a key part of my post about armaldo that if you actually read it you would've picked up on was that I came right out and said that Armaldo by no means fit the definition of an S rank mon so lets not call me out for something we both agree on.

I'm also going to ask you to think about a statement you put out. You essentially just told me that hazard control isn't a neccessity on bug teams. I will say this again, a bug team simply cannot, and will not function without hazard control. Saying that having it on a bug team is not essential makes me cry. Without rapid spin on bug teams, nothing would be able to function. Volcarona would not be able to do the things it does along with mons like pinsir, yanmega, vivillon, scoli, etc. That was more of my argument for it. That armaldo is the mon that simply makes a bug team functional, not that it necessarily is perfect for that S rank definition but the fact that bug teams ABSOLUTELY NEED IT IN ORDER TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF BEING SUCCESSFUL AND WITHOUT IT THEY WILL CRUMPLE INTO PIECES. IMO that completely voids any definition set for an S rank mon and should propel it into that status.

Ok so now lets dive into arma's competition. We'll start with defog scizor. Simply put, no. Forcing defog onto a scizor is not logical at all. Scizor needs to be able to do a lot of things for bug in terms of being able to revenge key threats that would threaten the crap out of bug while acting as a backup wincon and forcing defog on it hinders scizors ability to do those things. I'm somewhat with you on forretress. Like you said, they both fill the role of a bulky rapid spinner. Armaldo outclasses forry's bulky sets just a bit tho because of the offensive presence it does provide. It isn't much, but it is there. Forry is just an absolute momentum sink. And you can say "no it's not it gets volt switch so I can just pivot with it." Yes, you can, but you also have to control hazards before you can gain any kind of momentum and if you are constantly pivoting all the time than you will never be able to control hazards which doesn't spell a good time for any bug team. Armaldo isn't nearly as big of a momentum sink as forry is which Is why I put it just a bit above forry.

Ur going to have to give me more than "rapid spin isn't essential on bug teams."
I'm kinda with .Rawr! on that 1, Hazards Removal is extremely essential on a bug team, just because Arlamdo has it does not mean its S ranked. Scizor/Forretress can also function as hazards control, each are good in their own respective ways. That's just like saying on Ice Cryogonal is S ranked because it also has rapid spin, or Articuno as well. I think iVid can back me up on the 1st one since he's used it, its by no means s ranked at all. Armaldo in itself is definitely an A ranked mon I feel.

Edit: On a side note, the caps/bold isn't necessary.
 
Thats why I dove into the aspect of armaldo outclassing forretress as a hazard controller. The reason avalugg is S rank and cryagonal is shit is because avalugg completely and utterly outclasses cryag as a rapid spinner just like how armaldo outclasses forretress as a rapid spinner. Not by a huge margin, but it still does which is why arma is S rank and forry is close behind in A. Similar to how articuno is at a solid B rank because while it does still get outclassed by lugg as a mon tht controls hazards, it still does an OK job at it.

Mons outclassing each other in their respective roles is why we have VR threads for tiers in the first place. To see and rank mons that do their jobs the best in which case Armaldo does its job the best out of any bug mon. And a job that is completely and utterly essential for reasons I stated above. That on no level means, "oh well other mons get spin so no arma shouldn't be S rank." As long a a mon can set itself apart from the other mons that do similar things, then yes it still does deserve a higher rank because that is just simply how ranking mons works.
 
Thats why I dove into the aspect of armaldo outclassing forretress as a hazard controller. The reason avalugg is S rank and cryagonal is shit is because avalugg completely and utterly outclasses cryag as a rapid spinner just like how armaldo outclasses forretress as a rapid spinner. Not by a huge margin, but it still does which is why arma is S rank and forry is close behind in A. Similar to how articuno is at a solid B rank because while it does still get outclassed by lugg as a mon tht controls hazards, it still does an OK job at it.

Mons outclassing each other in their respective roles is why we have VR threads for tiers in the first place. To see and rank mons that do their jobs the best in which case Armaldo does its job the best out of any bug mon. And a job that is completely and utterly essential for reasons I stated above. That on no level means, "oh well other mons get spin so no arma shouldn't be S rank." As long a a mon can set itself apart from the other mons that do similar things, then yes it still does deserve a higher rank because that is just simply how ranking mons works.
I don't think Armaldo is an S ranked mon in itself. If anything I think ist more A+, but it itself does not define how bug is used, its not a necessity, meaning, teams could go without it and not be moderately/severely hurt without its presence.
 

Omega-Xis

Mauville's Own
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I agree with Wanka. The main reason people use Forretress is to have a Terrakion switchin, but Scizor can already do that. Armaldo can eat a hit from Zard Y and then KO it, something that only Scarf Hera or a set up Volc can do, since I don't see when you're mega evolving Pinsir unless you somehow get it in on a weakened Torkoal. Add to that fact, it can also Rapid Spin AND set Stealth Rock. It does so much that there's honestly no reason it shouldn't be S Rank. Bug is so much about condensing roles that I think a mon that exemplifies this should honestly get the highest rank. It does something that Forretress can't, and that is KO Zard Y and be a big threat in general to Fire with STAB Stone Edge and it can also pick off weakened mons with Aqua Jet.

If a mon is in general better than another at its role, can do multiple things and can be a huge threat in a mismatch, I see no reason to not S Rank it.
 
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