That would probably be Ivy who usually organizes any suspects and changes, though the reason is mostly because of user discussion anyway.
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Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
The last time I played I hadn't seen any toxic chain users, which was a bit unexpected. I'll keep an eye out, but what really ought to be done is removing Terapagos due to it bypassing the BST rule. Historically we've banned even the weakest of mega stones that bypass the limit, and the low BST legal Terapagos itself doesn't really offer much new to the format, so I don't think this would be too harsh of a move.
Iron Hands is underrated imo, his stat spread makes him probably the best offensive ice scales user, sort of mimicking the unkillability of AV iron hands in VGC. He has taken me above 1500, though not to #1 on the ladder as of yet.
Edit: turns out terapagos got quietly banned before i made this post. Sorry for misunderstanding
Last edited:
Terapgos is banned, and that’s been implemented for at least a few days.
When you can't beat them , Join them !!
I have been getting walled by the Grass bots (those who all use the same team) for a pretty long time so I did this and said Nah, I'd Win
Venusaur-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Ting-Lu @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Toxic Chain
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
0 speed IV's been really helpful in Perish Song situations which seems to happen with me a lot. On a good day anyone can get consecutive wins with this team without much effort
A few replays:
1-turn Match
Almost lost if no song
Final Song
Toxic-chain made me so toxic I had to toxicate others sorry peeps ;-;
Yeah this is basically the exact same team I used when I played a few days ago lol. It just works!View attachment 596437
When you can't beat them , Join them !!
I have been getting walled by the Grass bots (those who all use the same team) for a pretty long time so I did this and said Nah, I'd Win
View attachment 596438
Venusaur-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Ting-Lu @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Toxic Chain
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
0 speed IV's been really helpful in Perish Song situations which seems to happen with me a lot. On a good day anyone can get consecutive wins with this team without much effort
A few replays:
1-turn Match
Almost lost if no song
Final Song
Toxic-chain made me so toxic I had to toxicate others sorry peeps ;-;
thx manView attachment 596437
When you can't beat them , Join them !!
I have been getting walled by the Grass bots (those who all use the same team) for a pretty long time so I did this and said Nah, I'd Win
View attachment 596438
Venusaur-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Ting-Lu @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Toxic Chain
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
0 speed IV's been really helpful in Perish Song situations which seems to happen with me a lot. On a good day anyone can get consecutive wins with this team without much effort
A few replays:
1-turn Match
Almost lost if no song
Final Song
Toxic-chain made me so toxic I had to toxicate others sorry peeps ;-;
What a silly and greatly enjoyable format. Got to the top of the ladder with a small variation on kratosurtur's team, big thanks (Interpid Sword on Ting-Lu) because there were so many Flower Veil teams that Toxic Chain was just kinda dead weight, also helps to kinda ward off enemy Mirror Herb procs from getting a way bigger boost. Grass bots aside though, I think Toxic Chain is better for general use, maybe a little too good honestly.
Was using a double Ghost team for a while (Tera Ghost M-Amph w/Toxic Chain and Pecharunt w/Magic Bounce) but the Flower Veil core is just more consistent, only thing you have to worry about is more chances for crazy metronome rolls compared to more offensively focused teams/toxic chain users.
Happy Friday and February. Both the full December stats and January's usage stats are out, which marks the first usage stats of 2024. Since Terapagos ended up banned midway on January 11, these still don't paint a complete picture of what was happening in the month, but as recent posts have shown I think people have a general idea of what successful teams look like at this point anyway, so the analysis will be a bit briefer with more to cover.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-12/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-12/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
For the sake of keeping track and full comparison for January, here are the stats for the full month of December. The complete battle count is 30554, a relatively smaller dip from November.
December 2023 (full): 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (November) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Ting-Lu (no change)
#3: Mega Heracross (no change)
#4: Terapagos (new)
#5: Blissey (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (#5)
#7: Pecharunt (new)
#8: Mega Gengar (#10)
#9: Mega Sableye (#8)
#10: Mega Slowbro (#7)
Compared to the stats since DLC2's release, Terapagos and Pecharunt naturally drop a few places in a time without their existence. Ting-Lu and Heracross maintain their top spots officially, while Baxcalibur doesn't quite make it into the top 10 this time, but still hangs in #17. Once again, Venusaur has a dominant 50% weighted usage rate and 12678 raw appearances, almost double that of Heracross's 6847 second to it. Despite their frequent pairing, Ting-Lu only manages 3rd in raw usage with 5555 appearances. Some unique dark horses in the full month's stats include Mega Pinsir making #19 with 516 uses and Wishiwashi-School in #23 with 183 uses, with Pinsir using the typical Aerilate Band offense set while Wishiwashi participates in Pickup Mirror Herb passing with Ting-Lu.
Viability ceilings for December are pretty similar to what we saw with the DLC, but Blissey and Dragapult also make it to the peak of 81, while the duo of Tyranitar (Magic Bounce/Covert Cloak) and Mega Altaria (Pixilate/Altarianite) join Heracross at 80.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-01/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-01/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for January managed to rebound and surpass the drop of November again with 38388 battles, still not back to peak activity but is positive nonetheless.
January 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (December) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Mega Heracross (#3)
#3: Ting-Lu (#2)
#4: Pecharunt (#7)
#5: Blissey (no change)
#6: Terapagos (#4)
#7: Mega Ampharos (#6)
#8: Mega Slowbro (#10)
#9: Mega Gengar (#8)
#10: Mega Abomasnow (#27)
While Venusaur is still #1 and definitely a popular ladder leader, Heracross gains ground and takes the #2 spot back from Ting-Lu. Meanwhile, Pecharunt is already making a pretty good impression for itself after its debut, while broken Terapagos is still #6 despite only existing for a third of the month. Not too much has changed for the top 10 other than Abomasnow making a big leap up to oust Sableye at #11, but there's some pretty interesting shifts outside the top 10. Some other recent Gen 9 mons making names for themselves are Gouging Fire making #26 with 679 uses (Magic Guard/Life Orb with Kangaskhan), followed closely by Ogerpon-Hearthflame in #28 with 723 uses (paired with Blissey), the fellow DLC paradox Raging Bolt in #33 with 552 uses (more Magic Bounce, with some Synchronize and Pastel Veil?), and even Brute Bonnet managed a record #35 with 157 uses (running Prism Armor/Fluffy with a Venusaur partner).
Over in the moveset file, Flower Veil seems to have resurpassed Toxic Chain and Magic Bounce on Venusaur, which is the combination that Kratosurtur has represented recently. Flower Veil is still the prime option on Ting-Lu itself though. Pecharunt still seems to be divided between Ice Scales/Toxic Chain/Magic Bounce evenly, but Mirror Herb has pulled through as the main item of choice. In its final hour, it seems Terapagos frequented Intrepid Sword and Choice Band more over the other mixed options of Download and Mirror Herb to focus more on physicals.
Looking at the viability ceilings (highest GXE of a user using that Pokemon), the peak this time around is 82 with the unexpected pair of Mega Gengar (mostly Good as Gold, with some Competitive and Magic Bounce) and Arcanine (Defiant and Band). I feel like this is just a case of a very small sample size at this rate since Arcanine only even has 50 uses, but it's worth a shoutout for the achievement. The next highest viability ceiling is 79 with a 6-way tie between Mega Venusaur, Ting-Lu, Blissey, Terapagos, Mega Abomasnow (Good as Gold/Mirror Herb with Pecharunt), and Cresselia (Magic Guard/Toxic Chain with Mirror Herb/WP/Leppa). There is no one with 78, and 77 is a 10-way tie that I won't go into much but includes Pecharunt, Mega Ampharos (mainly Toxic Chain now), Mega Sableye (still Magic Bounce but notable Toxic Chain usage), Dusclops (mainly Toxic Chain barely over Magic Bounce), Glastrier (primarily Simple), Iron Hands (also running Toxic Chain/Ice Scales), Mega Kangaskhan (Magic Bounce), Brute Bonnet, Porygon2 (mainly Toxic Chain), and Hisuian Arcanine (also Defiant/Band with some Storm Drain). So I guess this goes to show there's more parity, but also a lot of mons are just getting away with using Toxic Chain as an option now in this meta.
Finally, I want to highlight a weird set/combo just because I don't think I ever mentioned in this thread yet, and so I wanted to document it for the sake of it.
beethoven (Heracross) @ Heracronite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome
The concept of this set came to me a few years ago from thinking about Illusion with megas and the weird name interactions that come with it, and thinking about how Imposter with megas works instead. How it works is that you have the option to mega evolve midbattle and you just become the mega with its base ability as normal, but you still keep Imposter's 5 PP, so I thought this could basically only be used as the fastest way to get Heracross to Struggle. It's sitill not even that great at that because you don't have an ability or item to boost your attack properly, and you can't even run Leppa Berry if you wanted to. I had some replays from late 2020 with this and an Altaria set, but they don't seem to be back yet, so you just have to take me on my word when I say it won at least one battle. The one positive matchup you have is like Illusion, other Imposters will fail on Imposter, but unlike Illusion, the order of Imposter activation is speed based, so anyone faster then Blissey (like Heracross) will become a 5 PP Blissey with less HP while Blissey remains the same.
not a blissy (Audino) @ Audinite
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Metronome
The most recent incarnation I decided to test was this Audino. Audino has the second highest HP of any mega capable mon, behind Kangaskhan's 105, but also Audino can outslow Blissey. The result is me trying to make a Blissey counter that could still also transform into a mon with a decent amount of HP. I also realized after the fact that Mega Audino gets Healer naturally as well, which could be relevant in this meta. It was not a good idea, but you can see it in action here (not against Blissey): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2045886305-rfa92pai3fs8fm5ci4kin4kheghcgjbpw
The last thing I wanted to highlight was the stat spread on this Audino. My goal was to have a Blissey transform into my terrible stats while Audino would be able to mega evolve to have the BST advantage, but I was wondering how stats work when you mega after transforming. Since Transform normally prevents any form changes, it is very difficult to put an answer to this question from natural gameplay. I figured either that I would have the enemy's full EV spread since sites like Bulbapedia say that Transform copies EVs, but I also thought it could just mean I take their raw stats at the time and the form change would just recalculate my own stats when it happens.
The above replay answers how this works on Showdown, and it works like the latter. Mega evolving does recalculate you back into the stats you put in the teambuilder, as shown by Mega Venusaur critting Mega Audino with Attack Order for 23% HP on turn 4. This range is only possible if my 0 Defense EVs and IVs were both intact, so I guess in this scenario you shouldn't actually mega evolve, unless you are untransformed and against a faster Blissey.
Venusaur used Metronome!
Waggling a finger let it use Attack Order!
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
(The opposing not a blissy lost 23% of its health!)
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 62-73 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 75-89 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def (0IV Defense) Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 85-100 (20.7 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
So that's pretty much everything that I thought could be said about Imposter megas. It doesn't really mean anything, but I just wanted to get it out of my mind for anyone else wondering what would happen and if there are any uses for it. Hopefully there will be better things that we can look forward to in this year. Thanks for your reading.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-12/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-12/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
For the sake of keeping track and full comparison for January, here are the stats for the full month of December. The complete battle count is 30554, a relatively smaller dip from November.
December 2023 (full): 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (November) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Ting-Lu (no change)
#3: Mega Heracross (no change)
#4: Terapagos (new)
#5: Blissey (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (#5)
#7: Pecharunt (new)
#8: Mega Gengar (#10)
#9: Mega Sableye (#8)
#10: Mega Slowbro (#7)
Compared to the stats since DLC2's release, Terapagos and Pecharunt naturally drop a few places in a time without their existence. Ting-Lu and Heracross maintain their top spots officially, while Baxcalibur doesn't quite make it into the top 10 this time, but still hangs in #17. Once again, Venusaur has a dominant 50% weighted usage rate and 12678 raw appearances, almost double that of Heracross's 6847 second to it. Despite their frequent pairing, Ting-Lu only manages 3rd in raw usage with 5555 appearances. Some unique dark horses in the full month's stats include Mega Pinsir making #19 with 516 uses and Wishiwashi-School in #23 with 183 uses, with Pinsir using the typical Aerilate Band offense set while Wishiwashi participates in Pickup Mirror Herb passing with Ting-Lu.
Viability ceilings for December are pretty similar to what we saw with the DLC, but Blissey and Dragapult also make it to the peak of 81, while the duo of Tyranitar (Magic Bounce/Covert Cloak) and Mega Altaria (Pixilate/Altarianite) join Heracross at 80.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-01/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-01/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for January managed to rebound and surpass the drop of November again with 38388 battles, still not back to peak activity but is positive nonetheless.
January 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (December) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Mega Heracross (#3)
#3: Ting-Lu (#2)
#4: Pecharunt (#7)
#5: Blissey (no change)
#6: Terapagos (#4)
#7: Mega Ampharos (#6)
#8: Mega Slowbro (#10)
#9: Mega Gengar (#8)
#10: Mega Abomasnow (#27)
While Venusaur is still #1 and definitely a popular ladder leader, Heracross gains ground and takes the #2 spot back from Ting-Lu. Meanwhile, Pecharunt is already making a pretty good impression for itself after its debut, while broken Terapagos is still #6 despite only existing for a third of the month. Not too much has changed for the top 10 other than Abomasnow making a big leap up to oust Sableye at #11, but there's some pretty interesting shifts outside the top 10. Some other recent Gen 9 mons making names for themselves are Gouging Fire making #26 with 679 uses (Magic Guard/Life Orb with Kangaskhan), followed closely by Ogerpon-Hearthflame in #28 with 723 uses (paired with Blissey), the fellow DLC paradox Raging Bolt in #33 with 552 uses (more Magic Bounce, with some Synchronize and Pastel Veil?), and even Brute Bonnet managed a record #35 with 157 uses (running Prism Armor/Fluffy with a Venusaur partner).
Over in the moveset file, Flower Veil seems to have resurpassed Toxic Chain and Magic Bounce on Venusaur, which is the combination that Kratosurtur has represented recently. Flower Veil is still the prime option on Ting-Lu itself though. Pecharunt still seems to be divided between Ice Scales/Toxic Chain/Magic Bounce evenly, but Mirror Herb has pulled through as the main item of choice. In its final hour, it seems Terapagos frequented Intrepid Sword and Choice Band more over the other mixed options of Download and Mirror Herb to focus more on physicals.
Looking at the viability ceilings (highest GXE of a user using that Pokemon), the peak this time around is 82 with the unexpected pair of Mega Gengar (mostly Good as Gold, with some Competitive and Magic Bounce) and Arcanine (Defiant and Band). I feel like this is just a case of a very small sample size at this rate since Arcanine only even has 50 uses, but it's worth a shoutout for the achievement. The next highest viability ceiling is 79 with a 6-way tie between Mega Venusaur, Ting-Lu, Blissey, Terapagos, Mega Abomasnow (Good as Gold/Mirror Herb with Pecharunt), and Cresselia (Magic Guard/Toxic Chain with Mirror Herb/WP/Leppa). There is no one with 78, and 77 is a 10-way tie that I won't go into much but includes Pecharunt, Mega Ampharos (mainly Toxic Chain now), Mega Sableye (still Magic Bounce but notable Toxic Chain usage), Dusclops (mainly Toxic Chain barely over Magic Bounce), Glastrier (primarily Simple), Iron Hands (also running Toxic Chain/Ice Scales), Mega Kangaskhan (Magic Bounce), Brute Bonnet, Porygon2 (mainly Toxic Chain), and Hisuian Arcanine (also Defiant/Band with some Storm Drain). So I guess this goes to show there's more parity, but also a lot of mons are just getting away with using Toxic Chain as an option now in this meta.
Finally, I want to highlight a weird set/combo just because I don't think I ever mentioned in this thread yet, and so I wanted to document it for the sake of it.
beethoven (Heracross) @ Heracronite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome
The concept of this set came to me a few years ago from thinking about Illusion with megas and the weird name interactions that come with it, and thinking about how Imposter with megas works instead. How it works is that you have the option to mega evolve midbattle and you just become the mega with its base ability as normal, but you still keep Imposter's 5 PP, so I thought this could basically only be used as the fastest way to get Heracross to Struggle. It's sitill not even that great at that because you don't have an ability or item to boost your attack properly, and you can't even run Leppa Berry if you wanted to. I had some replays from late 2020 with this and an Altaria set, but they don't seem to be back yet, so you just have to take me on my word when I say it won at least one battle. The one positive matchup you have is like Illusion, other Imposters will fail on Imposter, but unlike Illusion, the order of Imposter activation is speed based, so anyone faster then Blissey (like Heracross) will become a 5 PP Blissey with less HP while Blissey remains the same.
not a blissy (Audino) @ Audinite
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Metronome
The most recent incarnation I decided to test was this Audino. Audino has the second highest HP of any mega capable mon, behind Kangaskhan's 105, but also Audino can outslow Blissey. The result is me trying to make a Blissey counter that could still also transform into a mon with a decent amount of HP. I also realized after the fact that Mega Audino gets Healer naturally as well, which could be relevant in this meta. It was not a good idea, but you can see it in action here (not against Blissey): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2045886305-rfa92pai3fs8fm5ci4kin4kheghcgjbpw
The last thing I wanted to highlight was the stat spread on this Audino. My goal was to have a Blissey transform into my terrible stats while Audino would be able to mega evolve to have the BST advantage, but I was wondering how stats work when you mega after transforming. Since Transform normally prevents any form changes, it is very difficult to put an answer to this question from natural gameplay. I figured either that I would have the enemy's full EV spread since sites like Bulbapedia say that Transform copies EVs, but I also thought it could just mean I take their raw stats at the time and the form change would just recalculate my own stats when it happens.
The above replay answers how this works on Showdown, and it works like the latter. Mega evolving does recalculate you back into the stats you put in the teambuilder, as shown by Mega Venusaur critting Mega Audino with Attack Order for 23% HP on turn 4. This range is only possible if my 0 Defense EVs and IVs were both intact, so I guess in this scenario you shouldn't actually mega evolve, unless you are untransformed and against a faster Blissey.
Venusaur used Metronome!
Waggling a finger let it use Attack Order!
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
(The opposing not a blissy lost 23% of its health!)
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 62-73 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 75-89 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Venusaur-Mega Attack Order vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def (0IV Defense) Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 85-100 (20.7 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
So that's pretty much everything that I thought could be said about Imposter megas. It doesn't really mean anything, but I just wanted to get it out of my mind for anyone else wondering what would happen and if there are any uses for it. Hopefully there will be better things that we can look forward to in this year. Thanks for your reading.
Team dump time! I've been playing this format for a couple years now, so here are all my wacky little ideas I've come up with. Click on the team names for the pokepaste!
Railgun!
Bad Sun Team
Flyspam
Grassspam
Fly+Grassspam??
These last two are super common, but they're in my folder, so I added them anyway. No explanation needed on these.
Double Impostor Blissey
Double Beetle
And that's all the teams in my folder! I had more, but I lost my cookies a while back</3
Railgun!
My absolute favorite team- a tried-and-true old standby. A couple years ago I was scrolling through all the abilities to see what I could combo together, and ended up coming up with this. Pecharunt (formerly Sableye-Mega) powers up Ampharos with any Normal or Electric moves it rolls, and Ampharos tears through any enemy provided it rolls a special attack. Min Speed on Ampharos makes it more likely to be able to underspeed Pecharunt to get boosts before attacking, along with giving you a better chance of winning under Perish Song. Other item options include Specs on Ampharos, or a bunch of different things on Pecharunt (Band, Specs, Cloak, etc)
Bad Sun Team
As the name suggests, this team isn't particularly good, but it is creative and kind of silly so I included it. Camerupt sets Desolate Land, activating Cherrim's Flower Gift, giving both teammates +1 in Attack and Special Defense. Additionally, Desolate Land removes Camerupt's 4x Water weakness, so there's that. This team falls apart immediately if either mon dies, though- and Cherrim is pretty dang frail. Like I said, not great.
Flyspam
Adapted from a similar team I saw on ladder, this team uses Glastrier's excellent stats for this format to its advantage, setting strong winds almost without fail due to its super-low Speed. This makes both your team members have zero weaknesses after you tera Glastrier! Very good team, plenty of item/ability flexibility too.
Grassspam
Classic grass spam. Not really much that needs to be said about it.
Fly+Grassspam??
Alright, now this one's a little wacky. A combination of the previous two ideas. Unfortunately, due to the Grass typing, you still have weaknesses, and Shaymin-Sky isn't really bulky enough to make good use of either defensive Ability. It was a decent idea, though.
These last two are super common, but they're in my folder, so I added them anyway. No explanation needed on these.
Double Impostor Blissey
Double Beetle
And that's all the teams in my folder! I had more, but I lost my cookies a while back</3
Last edited:
What does your vibe say looking at the Heracross Team. Do you think or feel Defiant is a better choice than Intrepid Sword?
I personally think that having one defiant mon and one intrepid sword Pokémon is the way to go. It’s dangerous to activate defiant in front of a mon with mirror herb and intrepid sword fixes that.
Good idea. I changed that and fixed the tera types, too.
Maybe if I find the right dice and time I will make some guesses about their performance.
That would be great, thanks! I'd love any advice!
I just started Metrenome so I don’t know anything Meta, but cool team I came up with.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Zapdos @ Choice Specs
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Zapdos @ Choice Specs
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
I found my dice set, and even though they were a little dusty I got some results.
I checked:
Heracross-Mega Intrepid Sword (2)
Heracross-Mega Defiant (2)
Heracross-Mega Defiant // Intrepid Sword
(all choice banded)
The Defiant(2) Teams gets outperformed.
Intrepid Sword(2) and Defiant//Intrepid Sword perform relatively equally.
Defiant relies on stats being dropped.
But the boost that Intrepid Sword provides is better.
Better in a way that not using at least one Intrepid Swords puts you at a disadvantage.
So, Heracross-Mega Intrepid Sword (2) and Heracross-Mega Defiant // Intrepid Sword,
are very much interchangeable I'd say
I’ve found some ladder success with this team and i thought I’d share it
The use of both attacking stats allows for strong mixed attacks. Blacephalon uses mglo to stave off omnipresent toxic chain and the many poison secondary effects. Hydrapple’s ability has flipped around a lot, from thick fat, to comatose, to now tinted lens. Weakness policy provides a boost to the meager offenses traded for bulk.
Hydrapple @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
The use of both attacking stats allows for strong mixed attacks. Blacephalon uses mglo to stave off omnipresent toxic chain and the many poison secondary effects. Hydrapple’s ability has flipped around a lot, from thick fat, to comatose, to now tinted lens. Weakness policy provides a boost to the meager offenses traded for bulk.
Hydrapple @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
Been building myself a team for the last few days. Noticed that the annoying Grass Is X bots are getting a little out of hand in the ladder, so I cooked this team to counter it.
Now, this is the team's plan:
Strategy:
Do NOT Tera on turn one. Always wait a few turns. For example, if your Wandering Spirit Venusaur happens to switch it's ability with a good one, you could terastallize it, or if one Venusaur gets statused or gets reduced to a low HP, you can Tera the other. This team performs the best with M-Venus, but also performs well with our former team, using Pecharunt.
Now, this is the team's plan:
Wandering Spirit is there to hopefully get the Flower Veil on YOUR side, and take it away from the opponent. If it were to switch with Toxic Chain, it is still okay, as the Lingering Aroma could possibly just spread to the opposing team.
This counters common teams in the ladder, such as Defiant Heracross, several immunity teams, and weather teams. Sometimes, you can also get lucky, such as Wandering Spirit swapping with a broken ability, such as Lightning Rod or Defiant.
Do NOT Tera on turn one. Always wait a few turns. For example, if your Wandering Spirit Venusaur happens to switch it's ability with a good one, you could terastallize it, or if one Venusaur gets statused or gets reduced to a low HP, you can Tera the other. This team performs the best with M-Venus, but also performs well with our former team, using Pecharunt.
My hot take on Heracross's options is that speed may be a more important stat, particularly for the mirror matchup just for the value of going first according to an old fwqef post that I couldn't find again. I was also considering a +Speed nature being viable as well, allowing you to outspeed base 86 speed mons with a neutral nature and up to base 102 mons with a negative nature.
To anyone reading this thread because of the tournament mentioned above, welcome to the metronome battles thread and the first forum tournament for it. Signups are still open as of writing and it's looking close to a round 128 participants. I'm interested to see what's going to be used in the tournament meta and I'll probably use one of those replay list tools to go through the stats afterwards. I feel like we might see a fair share of first post sample teams and ladder meta, but I'm also curious to see how the BO5 dynamic impacts the game with how important matchups can be and how being able to switch teams will be used. Things like Heracross can easily pull out a quick win on ladder, but over the course of multiple games having consistency or counters may be more reliable.
In other news, Pokemon Legends Z-A's announcement implies the return of mega evolution and the potential of new megas, who have been traditionally some of the stronger mons in the meta with their high BSTs. Unfortunately any developments will have to wait until the actual release of the game in 2025, so this is the meta we'll be stuck with for the next year.
But for now, the usage stats for February are out, and so we finally have a full set of stats post-Terapagos ban.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-02/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-02/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for February was 37070, which is a small dip from January but it was still a shorter month, though it was also a leap year, so I would say it's about the same pace still. I guess there is an argument for counting the average number of battles divided by the number of days, so February would actually beat January with ~1278 over ~1238 fights per day since the battle counts are so close anyway, but this probably won't be a major factor to note otherwise.
February 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (January) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Ting-Lu (#3)
#3: Mega Ampharos (#7)
#4: Mega Heracross (#2)
#5: Pecharunt (#4)
#6: Blissey (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#9)
#8: Mega Sableye (#11)
#9: Dusclops (#13)
#10: Necturna (#12)
In a shocking turn of events, Ting-Lu and Ampharos have displaced Heracross into rank 4, which is its lowest placement in the Gen 9 meta since its #5 position, which happened exactly 1 year ago in February 2023 as the first look at Gen 9 without Opportunist. Venusaur still maintains a strong hold on the meta with 15663 uses, over double the raw usage of Heracross at 7192 following it. We also have some ghosts returning to the bottom places while Pecharunt still maintains a consistent position.
Dark horses of the month include Tyranitar placing at #19 with 632 uses, Wishiwashi-School at #24 with 421 uses, and Pikachu-Starter (the strongest Imposter with Light Ball) at #25 with 865 uses as some underdiscussed but powerful mons. Also Wo-Chien made #42 with 141 uses (Toxic Chain/Mirror Herb with Ting-Lu) and Cherrim (Flower Gift combined with Camerupt/Heracross?) made #46 with 123 uses, which is getting more niche, but they both ended up better than Iron Valiant at #48 with 1442 uses, the worst mon with a 4-digit use count behind Deoxys-Attack, Alakazam-Mega, and even Chansey. Even its top 6 abilities are all split between 12-8% usage.
Looking over to the moveset file for more details on the top mons, Venusaur is gaining more ground on Flower Veil (46%) over Toxic Chain, while on the other hand Ting-Lu is actually catching up on Toxic Chain with it being 34.6% to Flower Veil's 35.2%. Mega Ampharos is pushing Magic Guard and Lightning Rod usage back over Toxic Chain, which the latter is probably because of Girl Anachronism's Railgun set though Specs and Life Orb are still higher over Covert Cloak. Related to the Heracross discussion, we went from a 60/10% split on Intrepid Sword/Defiant last month to 53/16% this month if anyone was wondering. Sableye is back to being a Magic Bouncer while still using Mirror Herb, but Gengar has also become a Magic Bouncer and Dusclops is mainly split between Magic Guard and Bounce but also with noticeable Friend Guard/Toxic Chain/Good as Gold usage. Also Blissey is Imposter Blissey and Necturna is mainly Thick Fat as usual, so I guess that's the first post sample teams factor resurging as well.
The viability ceilings this time (highest GXE from all players that used that Pokemon) have a surprise at the top once again, with the peak of 81 being shared by Mega Heracross and Celebi, probably as a pair, either running Power Spot/WP support or Intrepid Sword/Choice Band to be a mini-Heracross. Next is a 4-way tie for 80 with Mega Venusaur, Mega Ampharos, and Tyranitar who is mostly paired with Dragonite and a 40/20/16 split between Defiant/Band, Good as Gold/Covert Cloak, and Life Orb/Magic Guard, followed up by Dragonite itself, with Normalium Z/Magic Bounce in the lead over the other more offensive options like Aerilate and Intrepid Sword. Lastly in 79 we have Pecharunt back to the Toxic Chain with some Ice Scales and Galvanize to support Girl Anachronism's aforementioned Ampharos, Guzzlord (also mainly Magic Guard/Life Orb), and Wishiwashi-School still split between Pickup/Mirror Herb and Covert Cloak/Magic Bounce. It'll be interesting to see if some of these typically less meta options will make some appearances in the tournament since anything could happen. Thanks for your reading.
Was goofing around on ladder with Light Ball Double Starter pikachu, and ran into a team built to counter impostor teams due to a bug.
Impostor Team For Reference: https://pokepast.es/f4589a13c8ac9f62
The Counter: https://pokepast.es/5044584958ef980f
if the sturdy mon (Impostor) dies before the other impostor, the game breaks, and thinks there is still another mon. When you go to select your moves the game says that you selected 1 more move (2 total moves) than there are unfainted pokemon (1 unfainted). This will not fix when you cancel, forcing you to lose via time. So the combo of Receiver Mon + Sturdy mon should be banned, as that is whats causing the bug (Pretty cool counterplay tho.)
Impostor Team For Reference: https://pokepast.es/f4589a13c8ac9f62
The Counter: https://pokepast.es/5044584958ef980f
if the sturdy mon (Impostor) dies before the other impostor, the game breaks, and thinks there is still another mon. When you go to select your moves the game says that you selected 1 more move (2 total moves) than there are unfainted pokemon (1 unfainted). This will not fix when you cancel, forcing you to lose via time. So the combo of Receiver Mon + Sturdy mon should be banned, as that is whats causing the bug (Pretty cool counterplay tho.)
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I don't think the team was made in mind with breaking imposter teams. It seems to be an unlucky bug.
Well, that is what I am guessing.
You're right
the actual purpose of this team, is for the magikarp to die turn 1, giving shedinja sturdy. So it both makes a broken mon AND breaks any kind of impostor team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2072729144-z3a4dymd9ig3k6yo2ohzmbyl8m8j89epw
The only way to win this is to get either disable, or perish song (but that doesnt even guarantee a win) it forces you to be either slower, or very lucky.
So, in conclusion, Ban Receiver + Sturdy so both of these problems go away.
Despite the interface bug, the game is very capable of finishing despite needing to submit moves for both Imposters every turn:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2072738190
All the Sturdy Receiver player has to do is to submit their final move after the Imposter player has submitted both of theirs. Cancel and resubmit your own move if necessary.
Of course, the Sturdy Receiver player could be a griefer and submit their moves ASAP, thus forcing the timer to run out....