Sorry, my brain exploded. I need you to dumb it down for me
*reads closer*
HOOOOLY SHIT. This is game breaking. To think I could actually beat the damn thing... time to ban Mega Heracross
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
*reads closer*
HOOOOLY SHIT. This is game breaking. To think I could actually beat the damn thing... time to ban Mega Heracross
Time to Tera Grass Intrepid Sword Heracross-M with Flower Veil Venusaur-M?
I thought that a mega who would really benefit from a new typing was Mega Abomasnow, with a stat spread comparable to Wishiwashi-School. It ends up slightly bulkier thanks to having a 90 raw HP difference between them and has 2 base STABs to work with. I also considered Mega Slowbro being able to remove most of its common weaknesses and being generally tougher to take down, though it tends to run WP for its offenses anyway.
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Wishiwashi-School: 88-104 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 21% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Abomasnow-Mega: 104-123 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wishiwashi-School: 90-106 (30.6 - 36%) -- 46% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 104-123 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Today I took a survey of the Metronome Battle ladder to see how the general population felt about this new development. Opinions were rather scattered and I noted that most of the audience I asked were not using megas themselves. Most people also did not mention a specific tera type combination they were thinking of in particular.
(No other response was given.)
(This player had 2 Mega Heracross.)
(This player had 2 Arghonauts.)
(This player was using Imposter Blissey.)
(No other response was given.)
(This player used Mega Venusaur and Abomasnow.)
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Wishiwashi-School: 88-104 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 21% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Abomasnow-Mega: 104-123 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wishiwashi-School: 90-106 (30.6 - 36%) -- 46% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 104-123 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Today I took a survey of the Metronome Battle ladder to see how the general population felt about this new development. Opinions were rather scattered and I noted that most of the audience I asked were not using megas themselves. Most people also did not mention a specific tera type combination they were thinking of in particular.
(No other response was given.)
(This player had 2 Mega Heracross.)
(This player had 2 Arghonauts.)
(This player was using Imposter Blissey.)
(No other response was given.)
(This player used Mega Venusaur and Abomasnow.)
As August comes, this marks the release of the July usage stats as well as the implementation of mega evolutions being able to terastallize. Unfortunately I have discovered manual mega stone evolutions cannot terastallize, so the tera Fairy boost to my Pixilate Altaria set will not come to fruition. You can still use Choice Band for a similar effect, but it's not the same.
The battle count has fallen to 39059 since last month, and the usage stats will also show that the meta has been extremely centralized to a degree we haven't seen before. Maybe with this new news there will be some more upsurge and variety in mega usage, but it seems that the major player in all this is also set to benefit most out of these new developments.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-07/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
1630 Top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Heracross (no change)
#2: Blissey (#4)
#3: Ting-Lu (#2)
#4: Mega Venusaur (#3)
#5: Mega Ampharos (#6)
#6: Glastrier (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#10)
#8: Dusclops (#9)
#9: Mega Sableye (#7)
#10: Type: Null (#22)
Stall may be rising up with bulky icons like Blissey and Type-Null making moves, but Heracross's brute force approach still beats all as it takes an even further lead to keep the top spot to itself with a massive 32383 uses and a weighted 69% usage rate, while its main rival Venusaur falls down to a record low of 4731 uses. I did observe a new bot "black cat no hat" making the rounds with some different teams, so that may be skewing something, but I also saw them using a variety of teams including Blissey and in terms of raw uses, Blissey is actually second to Heracross with 5720 so I don't think it's just them behind Heracross's reign. Overall, this is a good time to observe if this mega tera change will solidify Heracross's current dominance over the meta even more now, or if going Ghost may actually cause a meta shift of its own in retaliation.
For this month everyone feels more like a dark horse in the face of 30k use Heracross, but Iron Hands makes #16 with 760 uses as the top placing mon with triple digit raw uses, and it's followed up by Annihilape in #17 with 909 uses. I suppose it's a high-alphabetical Gen 9 Ghost which is an appealing combination to the common ladderer, but it's never really been brought up and has been hanging in the #40s for the last 3 months.
Over in the moveset file, Intrepid Sword is far and away Heracross's most popular ability. Natures are surprisingly divided between Brave with 252 Speed and 0 Speed. I remember fwqef doing some research in the past on if a neutral or Jolly Heracross was actually more likely to win in mirror matches using the speed factor, and I wonder about that too in a world that appears to be full of Heracross.
The highest viability ceilings (highest GXE achieved by a player using that mon) start off from 80 with a 4-way tie between Mega Ampharos (mainly Magic Bounce), Glastrier (mainly Good as Gold), Rampardos (mainly Speed Boost + Life Orb), and Primarina (mainly Magic Guard + Life Orb). It should be noted that the Rampardos and Primarina are teammates so this is probably a sample size of 1 player that may have gotten more of a lucky streak, but I guess Rampardos is close enough to Heracross and Speed Boost may have been a difference maker to get two consecutive moves in the turn between underspeeding and outspeeding. Following up at 79 we have Heracross and Imposter Blissey themselves as the top 2 with their classic sets.
There is no one with a 78 ceiling, so we move on to 77 which features an 8-way tie of Ting-Lu (very evenly mixed between Unaware/Magic Bounce/Pickup), Mega Sableye (with Bright Powder finally back in the lead), Dragapult (lots of variety as usual but Magic Bounce and Good as Gold leading now with Mirror Herb), Dragonite (primarily Aerilate), Regirock (with some Poison Touch stall and the top items between Choice Scarf and Weakness Policy), Swampert (typical Sap Sipper), Salamence (evenly split across Aerilate, Pickup, Magician, Intimidate, and Delta Stream), and Buzzwole (mainly Defiant and Choice Band, but also followed by odd picks like Wind Rider and Blunder Policy).
Despite the looming and uncertain threat of Heracross on the meta with the ramifications of its new power yet to be fully understood, it's nice to see these more out-there variety picks managing to find some success in their own way. Thanks for your reading.
The battle count has fallen to 39059 since last month, and the usage stats will also show that the meta has been extremely centralized to a degree we haven't seen before. Maybe with this new news there will be some more upsurge and variety in mega usage, but it seems that the major player in all this is also set to benefit most out of these new developments.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-07/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
1630 Top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Heracross (no change)
#2: Blissey (#4)
#3: Ting-Lu (#2)
#4: Mega Venusaur (#3)
#5: Mega Ampharos (#6)
#6: Glastrier (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#10)
#8: Dusclops (#9)
#9: Mega Sableye (#7)
#10: Type: Null (#22)
Stall may be rising up with bulky icons like Blissey and Type-Null making moves, but Heracross's brute force approach still beats all as it takes an even further lead to keep the top spot to itself with a massive 32383 uses and a weighted 69% usage rate, while its main rival Venusaur falls down to a record low of 4731 uses. I did observe a new bot "black cat no hat" making the rounds with some different teams, so that may be skewing something, but I also saw them using a variety of teams including Blissey and in terms of raw uses, Blissey is actually second to Heracross with 5720 so I don't think it's just them behind Heracross's reign. Overall, this is a good time to observe if this mega tera change will solidify Heracross's current dominance over the meta even more now, or if going Ghost may actually cause a meta shift of its own in retaliation.
For this month everyone feels more like a dark horse in the face of 30k use Heracross, but Iron Hands makes #16 with 760 uses as the top placing mon with triple digit raw uses, and it's followed up by Annihilape in #17 with 909 uses. I suppose it's a high-alphabetical Gen 9 Ghost which is an appealing combination to the common ladderer, but it's never really been brought up and has been hanging in the #40s for the last 3 months.
Over in the moveset file, Intrepid Sword is far and away Heracross's most popular ability. Natures are surprisingly divided between Brave with 252 Speed and 0 Speed. I remember fwqef doing some research in the past on if a neutral or Jolly Heracross was actually more likely to win in mirror matches using the speed factor, and I wonder about that too in a world that appears to be full of Heracross.
The highest viability ceilings (highest GXE achieved by a player using that mon) start off from 80 with a 4-way tie between Mega Ampharos (mainly Magic Bounce), Glastrier (mainly Good as Gold), Rampardos (mainly Speed Boost + Life Orb), and Primarina (mainly Magic Guard + Life Orb). It should be noted that the Rampardos and Primarina are teammates so this is probably a sample size of 1 player that may have gotten more of a lucky streak, but I guess Rampardos is close enough to Heracross and Speed Boost may have been a difference maker to get two consecutive moves in the turn between underspeeding and outspeeding. Following up at 79 we have Heracross and Imposter Blissey themselves as the top 2 with their classic sets.
There is no one with a 78 ceiling, so we move on to 77 which features an 8-way tie of Ting-Lu (very evenly mixed between Unaware/Magic Bounce/Pickup), Mega Sableye (with Bright Powder finally back in the lead), Dragapult (lots of variety as usual but Magic Bounce and Good as Gold leading now with Mirror Herb), Dragonite (primarily Aerilate), Regirock (with some Poison Touch stall and the top items between Choice Scarf and Weakness Policy), Swampert (typical Sap Sipper), Salamence (evenly split across Aerilate, Pickup, Magician, Intimidate, and Delta Stream), and Buzzwole (mainly Defiant and Choice Band, but also followed by odd picks like Wind Rider and Blunder Policy).
Despite the looming and uncertain threat of Heracross on the meta with the ramifications of its new power yet to be fully understood, it's nice to see these more out-there variety picks managing to find some success in their own way. Thanks for your reading.
Managed to reach the 1400s at least twice with this team with a Terastallizing Mega (yeah, it Tera Ghosts on Turn 1):
Abomasnow-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Baxcalibur @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
Yeah, it's the same jazz as the Tyranitar version of this team. The loss of bulk Abomasnow-Mega suffers compared to Tyranitar is actually noticeable, though.
Beware: this team is also very capable of crashing you into the 1200s. The double Imposter Blissey match-up somehow hasn't been too terrible, though.
Abomasnow-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Baxcalibur @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
Yeah, it's the same jazz as the Tyranitar version of this team. The loss of bulk Abomasnow-Mega suffers compared to Tyranitar is actually noticeable, though.
Beware: this team is also very capable of crashing you into the 1200s. The double Imposter Blissey match-up somehow hasn't been too terrible, though.
No actual way that happened
OK so I quickly went form 1200 to 1350 elo. Used the unlikely duo of Annihilape and Wishiwashi-School.
Wishiwashi-School @ Choice Band
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Its got bulk, and its a mixed attacker. Ghost types w/ Good as Gold provides you with an immmunity to an entire type of move you can call as well as Normal and Fighting type moves - very common attacking types. Suffice to say, it makes a good pokemon. Picked it over Mega Abomasnow because it has a slightly higher attack and no other reason. Plus the damage difference isnt that far apart...
252 Atk Ursaluna Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow-Mega: 180-213 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Ursaluna Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wishiwashi-School: 156-184 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
OK well it is, but surely the damage difference isnt too far apart
252 Atk Abomasnow-Mega Giga Impact vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Ursaluna: 158-186 (34.1 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wishiwashi-School Giga Impact vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Ursaluna: 164-194 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
OK fuck Wishiwashi - Mega Abomasnow is just better
Annihilape @ Choice Band
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
I choose this over Marshadow because it has higher bulk. There's nothing else to it
This duo both wield Choice Band for the power boost and the fact that physical moves are more common than special. 2 physical Gholdengo's without the Steel-type is an amazing pairing. Who would've guessed that?
Sarcasm aside, I did in fact go from 1200 to 1350 elo pretty fast. And I swear to you, I went up against the same 2 people over. and over. and over.
Now, 1350 isn't far from 1400 - which is 100 away from 1500 and in turn, top of the ladder. I do plan on taking this team to the top. Wish me luck. And with all that said, goodbye.
Wishiwashi-School @ Choice Band
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
Its got bulk, and its a mixed attacker. Ghost types w/ Good as Gold provides you with an immmunity to an entire type of move you can call as well as Normal and Fighting type moves - very common attacking types. Suffice to say, it makes a good pokemon. Picked it over Mega Abomasnow because it has a slightly higher attack and no other reason. Plus the damage difference isnt that far apart...
252 Atk Ursaluna Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow-Mega: 180-213 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Ursaluna Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wishiwashi-School: 156-184 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
OK well it is, but surely the damage difference isnt too far apart
252 Atk Abomasnow-Mega Giga Impact vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Ursaluna: 158-186 (34.1 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wishiwashi-School Giga Impact vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Ursaluna: 164-194 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
OK fuck Wishiwashi - Mega Abomasnow is just better
Annihilape @ Choice Band
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
I choose this over Marshadow because it has higher bulk. There's nothing else to it
This duo both wield Choice Band for the power boost and the fact that physical moves are more common than special. 2 physical Gholdengo's without the Steel-type is an amazing pairing. Who would've guessed that?
Sarcasm aside, I did in fact go from 1200 to 1350 elo pretty fast. And I swear to you, I went up against the same 2 people over. and over. and over.
Me VS Desenlace10 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918259343 [1206 -> 1233]
Me VS black cat no hat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918263810-9gdir1tdh496fcbmtf8rjtmceoun05wpw [1258 -> 1273]
Me VS nya20 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918264924-vkwetrrc51qhkwyq8ey91drw7tpam7mpw [1273 -> 1302]
Me VS black cat no hat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918265640-uhavle1ky8w26edgujheld5dgqzt86jpw [1302 -> 1313]
Me VS nya20 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918267348-g1y6wdq87hk0c1m05agky8geior7ucwpw [1313 -> 1329]
Me VS flappy birdsssss https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918268570-jwox24j0kyna1tmvao4nngnw1hy9opjpw [1329 -> 1337]
Me VS nya20 (for the 3rd time) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918270213-7pqvsythgr1s026epftk5mgx5rrywtppw [1337 ->1351]
Me VS SHR3WY https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918271547-arn2xsjhgmkbcipg0sikfdwt56lmq1kpw [1351 -> 1323] I lost the game to double Substitute. Back to the beginning
Me VS AndrwApple https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918273372-okhivvg47qsjqscqce835ykicgk253gpw [1323 -> 1331]
Me VS nya20 (for the FOURTH time) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918274705-tyo8t5atxdmb2swmyhbvwd9uy20nqvkpw [1331 -> 1342]
Me VS black cat no hat (3rd time) v
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918275636-vbmiofjohfrtvfd72qrgfrnpgszryvppw [1342 ->1353]
Me VS black cat no hat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918263810-9gdir1tdh496fcbmtf8rjtmceoun05wpw [1258 -> 1273]
Me VS nya20 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918264924-vkwetrrc51qhkwyq8ey91drw7tpam7mpw [1273 -> 1302]
Me VS black cat no hat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918265640-uhavle1ky8w26edgujheld5dgqzt86jpw [1302 -> 1313]
Me VS nya20 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918267348-g1y6wdq87hk0c1m05agky8geior7ucwpw [1313 -> 1329]
Me VS flappy birdsssss https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918268570-jwox24j0kyna1tmvao4nngnw1hy9opjpw [1329 -> 1337]
Me VS nya20 (for the 3rd time) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918270213-7pqvsythgr1s026epftk5mgx5rrywtppw [1337 ->1351]
Me VS SHR3WY https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918271547-arn2xsjhgmkbcipg0sikfdwt56lmq1kpw [1351 -> 1323] I lost the game to double Substitute. Back to the beginning
Me VS AndrwApple https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918273372-okhivvg47qsjqscqce835ykicgk253gpw [1323 -> 1331]
Me VS nya20 (for the FOURTH time) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918274705-tyo8t5atxdmb2swmyhbvwd9uy20nqvkpw [1331 -> 1342]
Me VS black cat no hat (3rd time) v
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918275636-vbmiofjohfrtvfd72qrgfrnpgszryvppw [1342 ->1353]
Now, 1350 isn't far from 1400 - which is 100 away from 1500 and in turn, top of the ladder. I do plan on taking this team to the top. Wish me luck. And with all that said, goodbye.
Last edited:
I don't know when you last played if it was before some QOL improvements like showing more mons in the teambuilder or automatically setting max EVs, but I can tell you that there are some forms that still don't appear as legal unless you type them in manually, like Meloetta-Pirouette and the above Wishiwashi-School.
Hemogoblin has gotten some last nerfs both last month and soon to come, going from 99 Atk to 96 Atk, 89 Def to 87 Def, 99 SpA to 96 SpA, and 97 SpD to 89 SpD.
A note on Mega Heracross's speed I want to make is that going minimum speed can theoretically improve the Blissey matchup against suboptimal fast Blisseys, since if Blissey is slower, then it will copy Heracross at +1 and then activate Intrepid Sword itself to get to +2. However, it seems like most Blissey sets are already running minimum speed anyway, which is optimal since in the Imposter ditto, the faster Blissey will transform first and cut its PP down as a result.
sir (Pinsir-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
ufo (Pokestar UFO) @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
A set I have been trying on ladder is this Mega Pinsir set, more aimed as an experiment in asymmetrical setup against Imposter Blissey but also working out against the occasional Flower Veil or non-tera Heracross and the usual ghosts. My goal is that the Blissey will likely stay in as the Bug/Flying Pinsir, while I terastallize into pure Flying for the super effective advantage. While Blissey can tera itself, I find that most people don't do it, though most of my experience is against the cat bot who never terastallizes, which is the one advantage we humans should remember as long as we have it. You could probably also just run Mega Heracross with Tera Flying itself and achieve similar results, but it is more canon with Pinsir. Tera Flying with Delta Stream has no weak points unlike Ghost which can get hit by heavy damage especially by other STAB Ghost attacks, but is more vulnerable to common Normal chip damage, so it's an interesting tradeoff that I feel could be viable.
EDIT: Here are some comparisons between Heracross and Pinsir. Can Pinsir overthrow Heracross now that they can both change their type?
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 399-471 (98.7 - 116.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 464-548 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pinsir-Mega Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 121-143 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross-Mega Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 139-164 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Pinsir beats out Heracross for damage with its own Normal and Flying moves, but falls behind without its super tera STAB boosts otherwise.
Of course, usually Heracross will just run Intrepid Sword to widen the gap instead, but if you used them in the same way then you wouldn't be too far behind with Pinsir. I will also note that Pinsir's base Flying STAB would be more useful than Heracross's Fighting STAB in a Ghost meta.
252 SpA Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 50-59 (12.3 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Heracross-Mega Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 39-47 (9.6 - 11.6%) -- possible 9HKO
Pinsir's SpA is slightly higher for what it's worth.
252 SpA Mew Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega: 70-83 (20.9 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Mew Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tera Ghost Heracross-Mega: 63-75 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Mew Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tera Flying Heracross-Mega: 79-93 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Mew Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pinsir-Mega: 76-90 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- 40.7% chance to 4HKO
Their bulk is actually pretty comparable as well. Even if Pinsir does lose on both ends, it's closer than you might expect within a few single percentages that could even be patched up by a Nature boost if you felt like it.
Here is a replay of Pinsir doing 45% with a Stomp on Ting-Lu.
EDIT:
I was playing some more Pinsir today and I thought that Mega Pinsir may have the strongest Pound/physical Normal moves in the game after seeing Iron Moth take 81% from Pound, Great Tusk taking 58% from Bind, and taking 60% off random mons with Scratch. That Tera 60BP floor goes a long way.
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Pound (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Iron Moth: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Bind (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk: 320-380 (73.7 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
Out of all the base -ate ability types (Normal, Fairy, Electric, Ice, Flying), Mega Pinsir has the highest Attack stat of them at 155 (Ursaluna has 140, Iron Valiant/Tapu Bulu have 130, Iron Hands has 140, Baxcalibur has 145).
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 464-548 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Normalize Tera Normal Ursaluna Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 430-508 (106.4 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Iron Hands Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 430-508 (106.4 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 333-392 (82.4 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Technically Iron Hands can do more with a partner setting up Electric Terrain...
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Iron Hands Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 558-658 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Tera Normal Heracross is stronger but is not real and can't hit ghosts.
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 499-588 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
EDIT: I have confirmed that black cat no hat runs minimum speed Heracross, as my Pinsir speed tied with it at +2 with 278 speed so it must have had the minimum of 139.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918636504
Last edited:
Honestly I think so. But like... what's the reason for a Metronome Battles bot?
Maybe they just got NPC tendencies but is actually a normal person
As you said about Galvanize Hands, I used Ampharos with Hadron Engine to test your idea. AND GOSH it was able to tank one of the Black Cat No Hat Heracross's avalanche. Weakness policy activated and I almost won. https://pokepast.es/b1505c7c84e8f0faI don't know when you last played if it was before some QOL improvements like showing more mons in the teambuilder or automatically setting max EVs, but I can tell you that there are some forms that still don't appear as legal unless you type them in manually, like Meloetta-Pirouette and the above Wishiwashi-School.
Hemogoblin has gotten some last nerfs both last month and soon to come, going from 99 Atk to 96 Atk, 89 Def to 87 Def, 99 SpA to 96 SpA, and 97 SpD to 89 SpD.
A note on Mega Heracross's speed I want to make is that going minimum speed can theoretically improve the Blissey matchup against suboptimal fast Blisseys, since if Blissey is slower, then it will copy Heracross at +1 and then activate Intrepid Sword itself to get to +2. However, it seems like most Blissey sets are already running minimum speed anyway, which is optimal since in the Imposter ditto, the faster Blissey will transform first and cut its PP down as a result.
sir (Pinsir-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
ufo (Pokestar UFO) @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
A set I have been trying on ladder is this Mega Pinsir set, more aimed as an experiment in asymmetrical setup against Imposter Blissey but also working out against the occasional Flower Veil or non-tera Heracross and the usual ghosts. My goal is that the Blissey will likely stay in as the Bug/Flying Pinsir, while I terastallize into pure Flying for the super effective advantage. While Blissey can tera itself, I find that most people don't do it, though most of my experience is against the cat bot who never terastallizes, which is the one advantage we humans should remember as long as we have it. You could probably also just run Mega Heracross with Tera Flying itself and achieve similar results, but it is more canon with Pinsir. Tera Flying with Delta Stream has no weak points unlike Ghost which can get hit by heavy damage especially by other STAB Ghost attacks, but is more vulnerable to common Normal chip damage, so it's an interesting tradeoff that I feel could be viable.
EDIT: Here are some comparisons between Heracross and Pinsir. Can Pinsir overthrow Heracross now that they can both change their type?
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 399-471 (98.7 - 116.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 464-548 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pinsir-Mega Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 121-143 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross-Mega Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 139-164 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Pinsir beats out Heracross for damage with its own Normal and Flying moves, but falls behind without its super tera STAB boosts otherwise.
Of course, usually Heracross will just run Intrepid Sword to widen the gap instead, but if you used them in the same way then you wouldn't be too far behind with Pinsir. I will also note that Pinsir's base Flying STAB would be more useful than Heracross's Fighting STAB in a Ghost meta.
252 SpA Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 50-59 (12.3 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Heracross-Mega Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 39-47 (9.6 - 11.6%) -- possible 9HKO
Pinsir's SpA is slightly higher for what it's worth.
252 SpA Mew Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega: 70-83 (20.9 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Mew Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tera Ghost Heracross-Mega: 63-75 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Mew Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tera Flying Heracross-Mega: 79-93 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Mew Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pinsir-Mega: 76-90 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- 40.7% chance to 4HKO
Their bulk is actually pretty comparable as well. Even if Pinsir does lose on both ends, it's closer than you might expect within a few single percentages that could even be patched up by a Nature boost if you felt like it.
Here is a replay of Pinsir doing 45% with a Stomp on Ting-Lu.
EDIT:
I was playing some more Pinsir today and I thought that Mega Pinsir may have the strongest Pound/physical Normal moves in the game after seeing Iron Moth take 81% from Pound, Great Tusk taking 58% from Bind, and taking 60% off random mons with Scratch. That Tera 60BP floor goes a long way.
View attachment 541008
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Pound (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Iron Moth: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Bind (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk: 320-380 (73.7 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
Out of all the base -ate ability types (Normal, Fairy, Electric, Ice, Flying), Mega Pinsir has the highest Attack stat of them at 155 (Ursaluna has 140, Iron Valiant/Tapu Bulu have 130, Iron Hands has 140, Baxcalibur has 145).
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Tera Flying Pinsir-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 464-548 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Normalize Tera Normal Ursaluna Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 430-508 (106.4 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Iron Hands Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 430-508 (106.4 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 333-392 (82.4 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Technically Iron Hands can do more with a partner setting up Electric Terrain...
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Iron Hands Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 558-658 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Tera Normal Heracross is stronger but is not real and can't hit ghosts.
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Heracross-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 499-588 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
EDIT: I have confirmed that black cat no hat runs minimum speed Heracross, as my Pinsir speed tied with it at +2 with 278 speed so it must have had the minimum of 139.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1918636504
A new Sword Ability team.
https://pokepast.es/9dc39a9f343afe5c
Heracross with these attack boosts equals POWER. Cresselia also has great bulk and deals decent damage due to weakness policy. It can also counter blissey teams. (Black Cat No Hat Battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1920740769) ALWAYS terastalize on the FIRST turn
https://pokepast.es/9dc39a9f343afe5c
Heracross with these attack boosts equals POWER. Cresselia also has great bulk and deals decent damage due to weakness policy. It can also counter blissey teams. (Black Cat No Hat Battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-1920740769) ALWAYS terastalize on the FIRST turn
Okay, it has been proven that Black Cat No Hat steals teams that beat him. He stole my team, https://pokepast.es/b1505c7c84e8f0fa, and also stole The2009Zapdos 's team with the Wishiwashi.
Speaking about Wishiwashi, I came up with an amazing team https://pokepast.es/7fe07718b2d0e8a5
Tera Ghost Cres is absolutely stally, plus a Wishiwashi with Lightning Rod, this team got me grinding.
Speaking about Wishiwashi, I came up with an amazing team https://pokepast.es/7fe07718b2d0e8a5
Tera Ghost Cres is absolutely stally, plus a Wishiwashi with Lightning Rod, this team got me grinding.
Steal isn't how I'd describe it. Maybe they're just testing out what they lost to for the fun of it
Also, this might confirm they're not a bot. Idk. This dude got some lore behind him
if you don't want people using your teams then why are you posting them.......
I'm pretty confident it's a bot, due to sheer amount of games it's in at all times + skipping turns with no delay, but yeah it's cycling between a bunch of teams and they recently started using some of the ones posted on this forum (the most recent one's currently). It's interesting how it started with double Mega-Heracross, then added Blissey Impostor a while later and now just today i saw Dusclops/Type Null, Iron Hands/Ampharos as mentioned above, Annihilape/Wishiwashi, Abomasnow/Baxcalibur.
Fuck it, we ball
Please don't post bad teams just for the sake of it on this thread, it's still a resource for a lot of players.
Bots are allowed on PS ladders as long as they don't maliciously affect user experience. Personally I don't see an issue with a bot using the teams showcased publicly, and I'd even say it's likely that the owner just grabs them manually so probably the strategy of posting bad teams won't really affect it.
Bots are allowed on PS ladders as long as they don't maliciously affect user experience. Personally I don't see an issue with a bot using the teams showcased publicly, and I'd even say it's likely that the owner just grabs them manually so probably the strategy of posting bad teams won't really affect it.
If there's any format where botting is a non-issue, it's Metronome. Bots have been on the ladder since Gen 7 (shoutout to the one with double Mega Lucario), and if for some reason you're really bothered to be playing against one in a format where you click one move and laugh at the results anyways, every bot I've knowingly encountered clicks Skip Turn, so you can just mash it and get the battle over with to move onto a human player. Only ways I could see it being problematic are if bots broke PS rules in chat (scam links/slurs/etc) or were made to deliberately timer stall, and I haven't seen either situation once.
In a similar vein, team stealing happens in every format that you teambuild for, and it's about as minor in Metronome as it can get. Of course, when I say "team stealing", I'm only talking about replicating a team that you saw someone else use; As far as I'm concerned, if you're posting a team publicly in this thread or anywhere else, you're consenting to other people trying it out.
TLDR oh my god who cares?
In a similar vein, team stealing happens in every format that you teambuild for, and it's about as minor in Metronome as it can get. Of course, when I say "team stealing", I'm only talking about replicating a team that you saw someone else use; As far as I'm concerned, if you're posting a team publicly in this thread or anywhere else, you're consenting to other people trying it out.
TLDR oh my god who cares?
Last edited: