uh.. maybe not bc the mechanics are a bit different from HJK, but whatever is easier to code / whatever the community wants, i guess. I'm fine either way.
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
First time posting on here so please give me a break if I break a rule :)
Metagame Name: Still not sure (2nd Stat, "2nd Something" (this is the best name for this metagame that I have at this time)
Metagame premise: Pokemon, but the Pokemon you choose are only allowed to have Physical or Special moves based off the lower stat of Attack/Special Attack.
As an Example, If Scizor is on your team, Scizor has 130 base Attack and 55 Base Special attack, since Special Attack is lower of the two attack stats, Scizor is only allowed to have special moves (or Disallowed from having any physical moves).
Status moves are still allowed.
Again, if you had Hydreigon on your team, Hydreigon has 105 base attack and 125 base special attack, since attack is the lower of the two attack stats, Hydreigon must have all physical moves (Disallowed form special moves)
Pokemon with equal base attack and special attack stats must either choose to be all physical or all special. For example if Deoxys is on your team, Deoxys has 150 base attack and special attack, so it must choose to be an all physical or all special set.
I think this metagame is interesting because it forces you to teambuild based of the lower of the two attack stats, which can create some interesting sets, some threats remain the same, like for instance Sheer force Life Orb Landorus Incarnate remains as a strong special attacker, while threats that have a imbalanced base attacks spread for example Scizor, becomes unviable due to its lackluster special attack.
Potential bans and threats: Standard OU clauses and bans.
Questions for the community: Do we want to allow Ubers in the tier?
Metagame Name: Still not sure (2nd Stat, "2nd Something" (this is the best name for this metagame that I have at this time)
Metagame premise: Pokemon, but the Pokemon you choose are only allowed to have Physical or Special moves based off the lower stat of Attack/Special Attack.
As an Example, If Scizor is on your team, Scizor has 130 base Attack and 55 Base Special attack, since Special Attack is lower of the two attack stats, Scizor is only allowed to have special moves (or Disallowed from having any physical moves).
Status moves are still allowed.
Again, if you had Hydreigon on your team, Hydreigon has 105 base attack and 125 base special attack, since attack is the lower of the two attack stats, Hydreigon must have all physical moves (Disallowed form special moves)
Pokemon with equal base attack and special attack stats must either choose to be all physical or all special. For example if Deoxys is on your team, Deoxys has 150 base attack and special attack, so it must choose to be an all physical or all special set.
I think this metagame is interesting because it forces you to teambuild based of the lower of the two attack stats, which can create some interesting sets, some threats remain the same, like for instance Sheer force Life Orb Landorus Incarnate remains as a strong special attacker, while threats that have a imbalanced base attacks spread for example Scizor, becomes unviable due to its lackluster special attack.
Potential bans and threats: Standard OU clauses and bans.
Questions for the community: Do we want to allow Ubers in the tier?
I doubt this would be liked as this is a super restrictive metagame that really only benefits mixed attackers.
Btw, this metagame existed in gen 6 namec Offstat
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/offstat-metagame.3474480/
But it had an additional rule that only Pokémon with attack difference with 50 or greater were allowed, so that mixed attackers wouldn't destroy the premise
Preface: Don’t you wish that there was a metagame that took the RPG elements of the Pokemon games and combined them with the elements of Smogon, well boy do I have a metagame for you.
Metagame Name: FTP (Faster Than Pokemon) (Named after the 2012 game “Faster Than Light”) (see pic below)
Metagame premise: Trainers pick from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon to add to their team, then they get to choose to pick the next Type of the next 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, repeat the cycle of picking until a full team of six is acquired and then challenge the ladder with it.
Rules: The Pokemon acquired at each node is from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, meaning their IV Spread, Nature, and Ability are already chosen at Random. The trainer then gets to choose 1 of the 3 Pokemon and train them, being able to evolve them, EV train them, choose their move set, and item. Then the trainer gets to pick 1 out of 3 Types for the next set of 3 Pokemon. Repeat this cycle until all 6 Pokemon are acquired.
Example: So as an example, I start to make a team for FTP, I first am given 3 randomly generated Legal Pokemon (Random IV Spread, Nature, and Ability) at the beginning, let's say I get a Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle for my first set. I choose to have Charmander on my team, then a map of Type nodes (see pic above) pops up and I get to see the entire map of Type nodes presented. Let’s say I can pick from a Water node, Grass node, or Psychic node next on my journey. I decide that I want a Water type to synergize with my Charmander, so I click on the Water Type node and I am presented with 3 randomly generated Water type Pokemon. Let’s say I get a Poliwag, Staryu, and Slowpoke. I then get to choose from these 3 Pokemon to add to my team. I decide to pick Slowpoke to add to my team, and then am presented with the next set of 3 Type nodes to pick from. This cycle repeats until I have acquired 6 Pokemon, after which the teambuilder pops up with my 6 Pokemon which I then get to train (Choose evolutionary stage, EV Distribution, Move set, Item, and Tera Type).
Keep in mind that this is a journey through the universe as it were, deciding on which Type node to (warp) pick next really matters as you can only warp to the next 3 adjacent Type nodes on the map. See in the pic below how the space ship (in Blue), can only warp to the 2 adjacent nodes.
I think this Metagame has a lot of potential, as it is truly a blend of the RPG elements of the Pokemon games combined with Smogon. You get to pick your team from a randomly generated set of 3 Pokemon, and chart your way through the galaxy by choosing the Types of the Pokemon that you will encounter. The Team Building aspect of Pokemon is highly respected in this Metagame as you have to pick from sets of Randomly generated Pokemon to build a team that synergizes nicely.
Potential bans and threats: Standard OU Clauses and Bans
Questions for the community:
How do we balance the fact that some people might get really strong teams, while some may not?
I was thinking that once you have your team, you must battle in 5 games with said team before you can start from scratch and build a new team. That way if you don’t get a team that you like, you can always build another one. I was thinking that it takes a minimum of 5 games before you can make a new team, but there is also the additional restriction that after 24 hours, it will force you to start a new team. That way the team building aspect of Pokemon is reinforced, and you don’t have a bunch of people just trying to hit the RNG slots as it were.
Do we want Ubers in the Tier?
Ubers are tricky, as they could balance out a weaker team, but they could also make some teams straight up broken.
How do we deal with traditionally Smogon Banned elements (such as Evasion, Arena Trap, Baton Pass, etc.)?
The thing with the random aspect of this metagame, means that trying to build a team that abuses said mechanics is very difficult, whereas having one of these mechanics may not be as broken when your team is built from a set of random Pokemon. Take for example, Arena Trap; Let’s say I get Dugtrio from one of the sets of randomly generated Pokemon to choose from. It might be a Arena Trap Dugtrio, but it also may just be a Sand Force Dugtrio, you won’t know until you get to the teambuilder after you have chosen all 6 of your Pokemon.
How do we prevent the RNG slots aspect of this metagame?
Again I think having a 5 game minimum on your team would still force players to respect the team building exercise of this metagame, with the Tier forcing you to make a new team after 24 hours.
Do we want to have a pass?
What I mean by this is that if you don’t like the 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon that are given to you, you can use a one time pass that reshuffles the set of 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon.
Random Abilities?
When I say each Pokemon is randomly generated, I mean a Legal Pokemon is generated. So the ability (chosen at Random) must be a legal ability for that Pokemon. As in if you get a Dugtrio randomly selected as one of the three Pokemon for you to choose from, it will be a Dugtrio with Sand Veil, Arena Trap, or Sand Force.
Do you want to see the Random elements before you choose?
What I mean by this is that each randomly generated Pokemon has a random set of IV spread, Nature, and Ability; do we want the player to be able to see these things before they choose, or only choose based on the Pokemon itself.
Is this going to be a NatDex format?
Potentially, as I want there to be the full cast of Pokemon that can be Randomly Generated at each node.
Metagame Name: FTP (Faster Than Pokemon) (Named after the 2012 game “Faster Than Light”) (see pic below)
Metagame premise: Trainers pick from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon to add to their team, then they get to choose to pick the next Type of the next 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, repeat the cycle of picking until a full team of six is acquired and then challenge the ladder with it.
Rules: The Pokemon acquired at each node is from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, meaning their IV Spread, Nature, and Ability are already chosen at Random. The trainer then gets to choose 1 of the 3 Pokemon and train them, being able to evolve them, EV train them, choose their move set, and item. Then the trainer gets to pick 1 out of 3 Types for the next set of 3 Pokemon. Repeat this cycle until all 6 Pokemon are acquired.
Example: So as an example, I start to make a team for FTP, I first am given 3 randomly generated Legal Pokemon (Random IV Spread, Nature, and Ability) at the beginning, let's say I get a Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle for my first set. I choose to have Charmander on my team, then a map of Type nodes (see pic above) pops up and I get to see the entire map of Type nodes presented. Let’s say I can pick from a Water node, Grass node, or Psychic node next on my journey. I decide that I want a Water type to synergize with my Charmander, so I click on the Water Type node and I am presented with 3 randomly generated Water type Pokemon. Let’s say I get a Poliwag, Staryu, and Slowpoke. I then get to choose from these 3 Pokemon to add to my team. I decide to pick Slowpoke to add to my team, and then am presented with the next set of 3 Type nodes to pick from. This cycle repeats until I have acquired 6 Pokemon, after which the teambuilder pops up with my 6 Pokemon which I then get to train (Choose evolutionary stage, EV Distribution, Move set, Item, and Tera Type).
Keep in mind that this is a journey through the universe as it were, deciding on which Type node to (warp) pick next really matters as you can only warp to the next 3 adjacent Type nodes on the map. See in the pic below how the space ship (in Blue), can only warp to the 2 adjacent nodes.
I think this Metagame has a lot of potential, as it is truly a blend of the RPG elements of the Pokemon games combined with Smogon. You get to pick your team from a randomly generated set of 3 Pokemon, and chart your way through the galaxy by choosing the Types of the Pokemon that you will encounter. The Team Building aspect of Pokemon is highly respected in this Metagame as you have to pick from sets of Randomly generated Pokemon to build a team that synergizes nicely.
Potential bans and threats: Standard OU Clauses and Bans
Questions for the community:
How do we balance the fact that some people might get really strong teams, while some may not?
I was thinking that once you have your team, you must battle in 5 games with said team before you can start from scratch and build a new team. That way if you don’t get a team that you like, you can always build another one. I was thinking that it takes a minimum of 5 games before you can make a new team, but there is also the additional restriction that after 24 hours, it will force you to start a new team. That way the team building aspect of Pokemon is reinforced, and you don’t have a bunch of people just trying to hit the RNG slots as it were.
Do we want Ubers in the Tier?
Ubers are tricky, as they could balance out a weaker team, but they could also make some teams straight up broken.
How do we deal with traditionally Smogon Banned elements (such as Evasion, Arena Trap, Baton Pass, etc.)?
The thing with the random aspect of this metagame, means that trying to build a team that abuses said mechanics is very difficult, whereas having one of these mechanics may not be as broken when your team is built from a set of random Pokemon. Take for example, Arena Trap; Let’s say I get Dugtrio from one of the sets of randomly generated Pokemon to choose from. It might be a Arena Trap Dugtrio, but it also may just be a Sand Force Dugtrio, you won’t know until you get to the teambuilder after you have chosen all 6 of your Pokemon.
How do we prevent the RNG slots aspect of this metagame?
Again I think having a 5 game minimum on your team would still force players to respect the team building exercise of this metagame, with the Tier forcing you to make a new team after 24 hours.
Do we want to have a pass?
What I mean by this is that if you don’t like the 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon that are given to you, you can use a one time pass that reshuffles the set of 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon.
Random Abilities?
When I say each Pokemon is randomly generated, I mean a Legal Pokemon is generated. So the ability (chosen at Random) must be a legal ability for that Pokemon. As in if you get a Dugtrio randomly selected as one of the three Pokemon for you to choose from, it will be a Dugtrio with Sand Veil, Arena Trap, or Sand Force.
Do you want to see the Random elements before you choose?
What I mean by this is that each randomly generated Pokemon has a random set of IV spread, Nature, and Ability; do we want the player to be able to see these things before they choose, or only choose based on the Pokemon itself.
Is this going to be a NatDex format?
Potentially, as I want there to be the full cast of Pokemon that can be Randomly Generated at each node.
You should probably check the beginning of the thread and the already existing formats in this section to get a better idea on what kind of stuff gets approved here.Preface: Don’t you wish that there was a metagame that took the RPG elements of the Pokemon games and combined them with the elements of Smogon, well boy do I have a metagame for you.
Metagame Name: FTP (Faster Than Pokemon) (Named after the 2012 game “Faster Than Light”) (see pic below)
Metagame premise: Trainers pick from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon to add to their team, then they get to choose to pick the next Type of the next 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, repeat the cycle of picking until a full team of six is acquired and then challenge the ladder with it.
Rules: The Pokemon acquired at each node is from 3 Randomly Generated Legal Pokemon, meaning their IV Spread, Nature, and Ability are already chosen at Random. The trainer then gets to choose 1 of the 3 Pokemon and train them, being able to evolve them, EV train them, choose their move set, and item. Then the trainer gets to pick 1 out of 3 Types for the next set of 3 Pokemon. Repeat this cycle until all 6 Pokemon are acquired.
Example: So as an example, I start to make a team for FTP, I first am given 3 randomly generated Legal Pokemon (Random IV Spread, Nature, and Ability) at the beginning, let's say I get a Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle for my first set. I choose to have Charmander on my team, then a map of Type nodes (see pic above) pops up and I get to see the entire map of Type nodes presented. Let’s say I can pick from a Water node, Grass node, or Psychic node next on my journey. I decide that I want a Water type to synergize with my Charmander, so I click on the Water Type node and I am presented with 3 randomly generated Water type Pokemon. Let’s say I get a Poliwag, Staryu, and Slowpoke. I then get to choose from these 3 Pokemon to add to my team. I decide to pick Slowpoke to add to my team, and then am presented with the next set of 3 Type nodes to pick from. This cycle repeats until I have acquired 6 Pokemon, after which the teambuilder pops up with my 6 Pokemon which I then get to train (Choose evolutionary stage, EV Distribution, Move set, Item, and Tera Type).
Keep in mind that this is a journey through the universe as it were, deciding on which Type node to (warp) pick next really matters as you can only warp to the next 3 adjacent Type nodes on the map. See in the pic below how the space ship (in Blue), can only warp to the 2 adjacent nodes.
I think this Metagame has a lot of potential, as it is truly a blend of the RPG elements of the Pokemon games combined with Smogon. You get to pick your team from a randomly generated set of 3 Pokemon, and chart your way through the galaxy by choosing the Types of the Pokemon that you will encounter. The Team Building aspect of Pokemon is highly respected in this Metagame as you have to pick from sets of Randomly generated Pokemon to build a team that synergizes nicely.
Potential bans and threats: Standard OU Clauses and Bans
Questions for the community:
How do we balance the fact that some people might get really strong teams, while some may not?
I was thinking that once you have your team, you must battle in 5 games with said team before you can start from scratch and build a new team. That way if you don’t get a team that you like, you can always build another one. I was thinking that it takes a minimum of 5 games before you can make a new team, but there is also the additional restriction that after 24 hours, it will force you to start a new team. That way the team building aspect of Pokemon is reinforced, and you don’t have a bunch of people just trying to hit the RNG slots as it were.
Do we want Ubers in the Tier?
Ubers are tricky, as they could balance out a weaker team, but they could also make some teams straight up broken.
How do we deal with traditionally Smogon Banned elements (such as Evasion, Arena Trap, Baton Pass, etc.)?
The thing with the random aspect of this metagame, means that trying to build a team that abuses said mechanics is very difficult, whereas having one of these mechanics may not be as broken when your team is built from a set of random Pokemon. Take for example, Arena Trap; Let’s say I get Dugtrio from one of the sets of randomly generated Pokemon to choose from. It might be a Arena Trap Dugtrio, but it also may just be a Sand Force Dugtrio, you won’t know until you get to the teambuilder after you have chosen all 6 of your Pokemon.
How do we prevent the RNG slots aspect of this metagame?
Again I think having a 5 game minimum on your team would still force players to respect the team building exercise of this metagame, with the Tier forcing you to make a new team after 24 hours.
Do we want to have a pass?
What I mean by this is that if you don’t like the 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon that are given to you, you can use a one time pass that reshuffles the set of 3 Randomly Generated Pokemon.
Random Abilities?
When I say each Pokemon is randomly generated, I mean a Legal Pokemon is generated. So the ability (chosen at Random) must be a legal ability for that Pokemon. As in if you get a Dugtrio randomly selected as one of the three Pokemon for you to choose from, it will be a Dugtrio with Sand Veil, Arena Trap, or Sand Force.
Do you want to see the Random elements before you choose?
What I mean by this is that each randomly generated Pokemon has a random set of IV spread, Nature, and Ability; do we want the player to be able to see these things before they choose, or only choose based on the Pokemon itself.
Is this going to be a NatDex format?
Potentially, as I want there to be the full cast of Pokemon that can be Randomly Generated at each node.
We wont approve anything that needs its own unique UI to work, specially during team building. Also the format has to make sense when there isn’t a ladder, most formats are challenge only for most of the year.
Combining metagames doesn't make a new other metagame, that's more of omm territory
I am new here so I appreciate this!
Level Playing Field
Preface: This seems so obvious that I'm afraid it's been suggested before, I've read the commonly rejected metas and tried to find any similar ideas using the search function but couldn't find anything resembling this idea. Apologies in advance if this has been rejected before...
Metagame Name: Level Playing Field (or maybe Training vs Talent? I'm not 100% sure)
Metagame premise: Make all Pokemon viable by adjusting their level based of winrate.
There is a OM called Tier Shift which has a similar goal of making every Pokemon viable but this has many flaws for details I won't go into in this post. Instead I want to use the very smart and proven balancing mechanism used in Random Battles to balance an otherwise normal metagame.
Random battles are by far the most played metagame on Pokemon Showdown, and in many ways it's a great metagame. The primary reason I like it is how well balanced the teams are and how every Pokemon becomes viable. It's not uncommon for a Pokemon like Dunsparce or Hypno to steal the show and be the most valuable member in your team. Random battles have some pretty major flaws as well though. Teambuilding is one of the most fun and creative aspects of this game where a lot of skill is involved, which gets completely left out.
Every 'normal' metagame ends up with at most 3 or 4 pokemon that fill a certain role the best and everyone ends up using, not in this meta though. When teambuilding you won't think about having an answer for a specific mon, but just to have the most well rounded team possible that can deal with as many threats as possible.
At first the levels that are used in random battles could be applied to this metagame as well, when it starts getting played they will have to be adjusted constantly because obviously this is quite a different meta from Random Battles. For example a Pelliper with 5 randoms isn't very good, but teamed up with rain abusers it's a different story.
Potential bans and threats:
- Standard OM Clauses + Sleep clause
- Hopefully no Pokemon will have to be banned.
- Weather- and terrain extending items should probably be banned. Even still it might be hard to balance weather teams.
- I beleive the main issue will be the lack of winrate stats. OM's don't get played much compared to random battles, so it's likely that it will be better to manually adjust levels to keep the metagame balanced.
Will this be difficult to technically implement?
What major roadblocks am I missing?
How could teambuilding be made managable? Would a spreadsheet where the levels can be checked suffice?
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The thing with this is not only is it just what randbats does but standard play, but it's also strictly nerfing pokemon for being good which isn't ideal for oms. This is also similar to tier shift as you said, but a bit harder to balance seeing how with tier shift it's based on every tier but with this win rate system where would you pull the data from? You can't pull from lower tiers cause a lot of pokemon aren't allowed there, but you also can't really pull from OU, Ubers, or from itself due to OU and Ubers having certain really strong Pokemon not win for not being welcome in those metas, and you can't pull from yourself because it's based on monthly data which is gathered after the meta would be gone for the next 6 or so months.
Thanks for the feedback! I agree the system works well for random battles because they have a huge amount of data which this simply won't have. On the other hand I don't think it would be too big of a task to manually balance the levels every week for example. The data from random battles should be a decent starting point, manually updating the data should keep it balanced.
What do you mean exactly with 'nerfing pokemon for being good which isn't ideal for oms'? It might be hard to judge when a pokemon is good but balanced, or too good, but frequent corrections to power levels is what should set this metagame apart from others.
It wouldnt be possible as Usage stats only come out once a month, the only way for this to work would be to just use Random battles levels.
Either way, I don't think we need two tiers with the same niche, we avoid approving ideas that are too similar to already existing ones nowadays.
Thanks for the feedback!
I agree definetily there won't be enough data to automatically correct the levels, but doing it manually shouldn't be that big of an issue in my opinion.
I understand how it might seem similar to Tier Shift, here's why I don't think it is:
- Because of the crude way of balancing by just looking at tiers, there remain very clear outliers. Some pokemon become (borderline) broken when increasing their stats, others stay irrelevant. By tiering each mon seperately you won't have these differences.
- There are quite a few bans in tier shift, this wouldn't be the case in level playing field. If Miraidon has to be lvl 50 to be balanced, it will be level 50.
- Checking stats and especially speed tiers is annoying. To my knowledge checking the speed tier of pokemon in Tier Shift is not very easy. Having to type /ts <pokemon> to see the basestat of every pokemon and comparing it to your own basestat, or editing the basestat in damagecalc costs a lot of time. It's very important to know how fast your opponent could be and if you'll outspeed, hovering over the Pokemon is so much easier.
- Tier Shift is shaken up every time tiering changes. Pokemon can lose their viability completely in a couple months time, so your old teams are probably no good. By changing the level in very small steps this will be less likely to happen.
- Tier Shift is clearly a fictional metagame. Unlike changing base stats, looking at levels makes nerfs and buffs very clearly visible and avoids confusion. Just a simpler and more elegant solution.
ok, yeah sure, Pokemon Sleep as an OM was a funny April Fools, but what if it was ACTUALLY a thing? Sorta?
Shut-Eye Strategem
Metagame premise:
Sleep gets 4 notable changes in this metagme:
•Any Pokémon that falls asleep gains 25% of its health back.
•All sleep, regardless if it’s a fixed-timer or not, will wake up after 1 active turn.
•All status moves will cause sleep after it has been used unless they block sleep or wake Pokemon up.
•Sleep overrides any previous non-volatile status. (Replaces burn/paralysis/freeze/poison with sleep
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential bans and threats:
Gholdengo
Garganacl
Darkrai
Spore
Wake-Up Slap
Electric Terrain
Unaware
Regenerator
Questions for the Community:
This metagame takes the general speed of Singles Pokémon and slows it down. Would this make for an interesting, or even fun metagame? I could see this being interesting to plan around as Wake-Up Slap suddenly becomes viable and turns of vulnerability need to be accounted for.
What are your thoughts on either Gholdengo or Garganacl? Are their sleep-blocking capabilities difficult to justify?
Shut-Eye Strategem Metagame premise:
Sleep gets 4 notable changes in this metagme:
•Any Pokémon that falls asleep gains 25% of its health back.
•All sleep, regardless if it’s a fixed-timer or not, will wake up after 1 active turn.
•All status moves will cause sleep after it has been used unless they block sleep or wake Pokemon up.
•Sleep overrides any previous non-volatile status. (Replaces burn/paralysis/freeze/poison with sleep
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential bans and threats:
Gholdengo
Garganacl
Darkrai
Spore
Wake-Up Slap
Electric Terrain
Unaware
Regenerator
Questions for the Community:
This metagame takes the general speed of Singles Pokémon and slows it down. Would this make for an interesting, or even fun metagame? I could see this being interesting to plan around as Wake-Up Slap suddenly becomes viable and turns of vulnerability need to be accounted for.
What are your thoughts on either Gholdengo or Garganacl? Are their sleep-blocking capabilities difficult to justify?
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Do self-targeting status moves put the user to sleep?ok, yeah sure, Pokemon Sleep as an OM was a funny April Fools, but what if it was ACTUALLY a thing? Sorta?
Metagame premise:
Sleep gets 4 notable changes in this metagme:
•Any Pokémon that falls asleep gains 25% of its health back.
•All sleep, regardless if it’s a fixed-timer or not, will wake up after 1 active turn.
•All status moves will cause sleep after it has been used unless they block sleep or wake Pokemon up.
•Sleep overrides any previous non-volatile status. (Replaces burn/paralysis/freeze/poison with sleep
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential bans and threats:
Gholdengo
Garganacl
Darkrai
Spore
Wake-Up Slap
Electric Terrain
Unaware
Regenerator
Questions for the Community:
This metagame takes the general speed of Singles Pokémon and slows it down. Would this make for an interesting, or even fun metagame? I could see this being interesting to plan around as Wake-Up Slap suddenly becomes viable and turns of vulnerability need to be accounted for.
What are your thoughts on either Gholdengo or Garganacl? Are their sleep-blocking capabilities difficult to justify?
Since sleep overrides any previous nonvolatile status, does sleep override sleep? (If so, you can keep the opponent asleep indefinitely just by using a status move every turn.)
Why is Spore on the watchlist?
Why is there a Sleep Clause?
Wouldn’t Ghold and garg be bad cause they can’t sleep as well as othersok, yeah sure, Pokemon Sleep as an OM was a funny April Fools, but what if it was ACTUALLY a thing? Sorta?
Sleep gets 4 notable changes in this metagme:
Metagame premise:
•Any Pokémon that falls asleep gains 25% of its health back.
•All sleep, regardless if it’s a fixed-timer or not, will wake up after 1 active turn.
•All status moves will cause sleep after it has been used unless they block sleep or wake Pokemon up.
•Sleep overrides any previous non-volatile status. (Replaces burn/paralysis/freeze/poison with sleep
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential bans and threats:
Gholdengo
Garganacl
Darkrai
Spore
Wake-Up Slap
Electric Terrain
Unaware
Regenerator
Questions for the Community:
This metagame takes the general speed of Singles Pokémon and slows it down. Would this make for an interesting, or even fun metagame? I could see this being interesting to plan around as Wake-Up Slap suddenly becomes viable and turns of vulnerability need to be accounted for.
What are your thoughts on either Gholdengo or Garganacl? Are their sleep-blocking capabilities difficult to justify?
Also prolly don’t wanna have an actual Capmon in the name lol
I’m not sure if this is that interesting it’s just mons but status moves kinda suck
Or spammable depending on how I’m reading it
Oops. Right, Sleep Clause is removed
How would poison heal work, or even any Pokémon that holds a toxic orb or flame orb? Would you get 25% back every time you get put back to sleep by the flame orb? Could be very OP with sleep talk.ok, yeah sure, Pokemon Sleep as an OM was a funny April Fools, but what if it was ACTUALLY a thing? Sorta?
Metagame premise:
Sleep gets 4 notable changes in this metagme:
•Any Pokémon that falls asleep gains 25% of its health back.
•All sleep, regardless if it’s a fixed-timer or not, will wake up after 1 active turn.
•All status moves will cause sleep after it has been used unless they block sleep or wake Pokemon up.
•Sleep overrides any previous non-volatile status. (Replaces burn/paralysis/freeze/poison with sleep
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential bans and threats:
Gholdengo
Garganacl
Darkrai
Spore
Wake-Up Slap
Electric Terrain
Unaware
Regenerator
Questions for the Community:
This metagame takes the general speed of Singles Pokémon and slows it down. Would this make for an interesting, or even fun metagame? I could see this being interesting to plan around as Wake-Up Slap suddenly becomes viable and turns of vulnerability need to be accounted for.
What are your thoughts on either Gholdengo or Garganacl? Are their sleep-blocking capabilities difficult to justify?
Also I agree it sounds almost good to get statused in this metagame, if that's the case why is electric terrain/spore etc on the watchlist.
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Ok- to be completely transparent I did sort of just see the april fools joke, came up with a rough concept quickly, and wondered how it’d be recieved. There are a ton of things I, admittedly, overlooked so I’ll try to address some things:
1. When I initially thought of it, moves like Iron Defense would put you to sleep, and not really moves like, say, Thunder Wave. In my mind it was “moves that don’t deal damage put you to sleep” and not just “all status moves”.
2. Yes, sleep would override sleep, as if you’re sleeping in for longer.
3. I forget that falling asleep in this meta would be better, and Spore probably shouldn’t have been on the watchlist. Kinda just thought “mmm yes good sleep move is danger”
4. Gholdengo can outright block other Pokémon from trying to fall asleep if the move in question is aimed at their target. Garganacl can do this too, albeit more specifically if it’s a status setting move like Toxic.
5. Strategem is a word, not a CAP specifically lol
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stratagem
6. You can still have all the other statuses as long as you’re not asleep, but if sleep is given or a status move is used; in the case of Poison Heal, Poison is replaced by Sleep.
7. Simply, Electric Terrain blocks sleep. It activates Future Paradoxes in the meta too with Quark Drive, so it doubles as a threat in a sleep-based meta.
———
If I had to make any changes, it’d be three things now that I’ve had a moment to think about it:
1. You’ll be put to sleep after 2 turns of not dealing direct damage
2. Status moves do not put you to sleep by default, rather they may or may not contribute to what I proposed in 1.
3. Sleep can vary once again from 1-3 turns of sleep (or whatever the default is)
1. When I initially thought of it, moves like Iron Defense would put you to sleep, and not really moves like, say, Thunder Wave. In my mind it was “moves that don’t deal damage put you to sleep” and not just “all status moves”.
2. Yes, sleep would override sleep, as if you’re sleeping in for longer.
3. I forget that falling asleep in this meta would be better, and Spore probably shouldn’t have been on the watchlist. Kinda just thought “mmm yes good sleep move is danger”
4. Gholdengo can outright block other Pokémon from trying to fall asleep if the move in question is aimed at their target. Garganacl can do this too, albeit more specifically if it’s a status setting move like Toxic.
5. Strategem is a word, not a CAP specifically lol
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stratagem
6. You can still have all the other statuses as long as you’re not asleep, but if sleep is given or a status move is used; in the case of Poison Heal, Poison is replaced by Sleep.
7. Simply, Electric Terrain blocks sleep. It activates Future Paradoxes in the meta too with Quark Drive, so it doubles as a threat in a sleep-based meta.
———
If I had to make any changes, it’d be three things now that I’ve had a moment to think about it:
1. You’ll be put to sleep after 2 turns of not dealing direct damage
2. Status moves do not put you to sleep by default, rather they may or may not contribute to what I proposed in 1.
3. Sleep can vary once again from 1-3 turns of sleep (or whatever the default is)
I don't really like those changes, as they are adding mechanics to an idea that already had plenty, either way I don't think this can be turned into an actually playable format, depending on what direction you end up taking it will either be too stally as you can't really do progress while sleep or too HO by giving too many free turns or because no one wants to actually put their own mons to sleep and will avoid status moves.
Like, the concept works as a joke format to get some laugh from the first game, but after that is just lets do nothing every few turns, thats not very fun to play or watch.
I'm just workshopping an idea based on Egg Groups
Core Premise is that your Pokemon can gain one move and ability from any Pokemon in their Egg Group.
These are combined, so you can't give your Corviknight Volt Absorb from Kilowattrel and Spikes from Skarmory, though you can get both Drizzle and Knock Off from Pelipper.
I don't particularly care if the Undiscovered Egg Group is excluded from this, but I think that it would be fine.
In this I believe the healthiest option for restrictions would be that by restricting moves and abilities, they can only appear on Pokemon that could know them in the base game.
Core Premise is that your Pokemon can gain one move and ability from any Pokemon in their Egg Group.
These are combined, so you can't give your Corviknight Volt Absorb from Kilowattrel and Spikes from Skarmory, though you can get both Drizzle and Knock Off from Pelipper.
I don't particularly care if the Undiscovered Egg Group is excluded from this, but I think that it would be fine.
In this I believe the healthiest option for restrictions would be that by restricting moves and abilities, they can only appear on Pokemon that could know them in the base game.
This just sounds like sketchmons but limited + aaa
Not that unique imo although there would be some funny strats