Project Metagame Workshop

[Notagamer]

Bondmons (I'll think of a better name later)


Premise

After your pokemon uses a move, the evolution directly underneath them switches in and gets to move again (ex: Garganacl switches to Naclstack). The Pre-Evolution has the same EVs, IVs, Moves, Ability, and Item as its fully evolved counterpart, shares status effects and HP, and stays in until the end of the turn.

Increased Viability

Suicide Leads

Suicide leads can set more hazards up before going down.

Pokemon with strong Pre-Evolutions

Pokemon with Pre-Evolutions with high attack stats can do a lot of damage in one turn.

Pivots

Pivots can unleash a devastating attack and then use their Pre-Evolution to pivot out.

Decreased Viability

Pokemon Without Pre-Evolutios


Pokemon with no Pre-Evolutions cannot take advantage of the mechanic.

Can't wait to see what you guys think of this :)

Would Pokémons Prevos be able to use moves that only the evo form has? (Like bisharp using kowtow cleave after kingambit)

 

[Wes8888]

Would Pokémons Prevos be able to use moves that only the evo form has? (Like bisharp using kowtow cleave after kingambit)

Ideally, yes.

 

[KaenSoul]

Bondmons (I'll think of a better name later)


Premise

After your pokemon uses a move, the evolution directly underneath them switches in and gets to move again (ex: Garganacl switches to Naclstack). The Pre-Evolution has the same EVs, IVs, Moves, Ability, and Item as its fully evolved counterpart, shares status effects and HP, and stays in until the end of the turn.

Increased Viability

Suicide Leads

Suicide leads can set more hazards up before going down.

Pokemon with strong Pre-Evolutions

Pokemon with Pre-Evolutions with high attack stats can do a lot of damage in one turn.

Pivots

Pivots can unleash a devastating attack and then use their Pre-Evolution to pivot out.

Decreased Viability

Pokemon Without Pre-Evolutios


Pokemon with no Pre-Evolutions cannot take advantage of the mechanic.

Can't wait to see what you guys think of this :)

How would the shared HP work? Would it just be the %, raw number (from 40/100 total HP to 40/60 total HP) or would the preevo still use the base HP stat of the evolved form?
And I'm not sure about it keeping the ability, it would make more sense if it used the ability it has in that ability slot, SO Kingambit would devolve into Inner Focus Bisharp.
Sounds like it would play like a modified version of linked, only evolved mons can take part of it, and they lose bulk (if they aren't using evio).

 

[DrPumpkinz]

One way this isn't like Linked is that abilities like Intimidate and Frisk activate every time the evo and prevo swap. Porygon isn't in the game yet but it would get a ton of boosts from Download if it's ever added.

 

[Wes8888]

How would the shared HP work? Would it just be the %, raw number (from 40/100 total HP to 40/60 total HP) or would the preevo still use the base HP stat of the evolved form?
And I'm not sure about it keeping the ability, it would make more sense if it used the ability it has in that ability slot, SO Kingambit would devolve into Inner Focus Bisharp.
Sounds like it would play like a modified version of linked, only evolved mons can take part of it, and they lose bulk (if they aren't using evio).

Yes it would be the percent, and your idea about the abilities sounds like a good idea.

 

[Lectrys]

Bondmons (I'll think of a better name later)


Premise

After your pokemon uses a move, the evolution directly underneath them switches in and gets to move again (ex: Garganacl switches to Naclstack). The Pre-Evolution has the same EVs, IVs, Moves, Ability, and Item as its fully evolved counterpart, shares status effects and HP, and stays in until the end of the turn.

Increased Viability

Suicide Leads

Suicide leads can set more hazards up before going down.

Pokemon with strong Pre-Evolutions

Pokemon with Pre-Evolutions with high attacking stats can do a lot of damage in one turn.

Pivots

Pivots can unleash a devastating attack and then use their Pre-Evolution to pivot out.

Decreased Viability

Pokemon Without Pre-Evolutios


Pokemon with no Pre-Evolutions cannot take advantage of the mechanic.

Pokemon with weak Pre-Evolutions

Pokemon with weak Pre-Evolutions are likely to die after switching.

Can't wait to see what you guys think of this :)

This reminds me of a mutant version of the Gen 7 OM Benjamin Butterfree, which similarly also brings pre-evolutions into the fray at several points in the game.

How does the evolution using a recharge or charge attack work in this meta? Does it work like Linked and have the pre-evo burn the recharge turn or lock into the attack "turn" of the charge attack, respectively?

What priority is Focus Punch considered to be at in terms of when the move is used: the higher priority of its "focus message" or the regular priority of the actual/failed attack?

Would Protect need to be put on the watchlist or even the banlist for granting protection from moves and letting the pre-evo use a move in the same turn?

Like with Linked, would moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade, and Super Fang need to be banned for threatening to 2HKO nearly all of the metagame when combined with regular attacks (or more Seismic Toss/Night Shade)?

 

[Wes8888]

This reminds me of a mutant version of the Gen 7 OM Benjamin Butterfree, which similarly also brings pre-evolutions into the fray at several points in the game.

How does the evolution using a recharge or charge attack work in this meta? Does it work like Linked and have the pre-evo burn the recharge turn or lock into the attack "turn" of the charge attack, respectively?

What priority is Focus Punch considered to be at in terms of when the move is used: the higher priority of its "focus message" or the regular priority of the actual/failed attack?

Would Protect need to be put on the watchlist or even the banlist for granting protection from moves and letting the pre-evo use a move in the same turn?

Like with Linked, would moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade, and Super Fang need to be banned for threatening to 2HKO nearly all of the metagame when combined with regular attacks (or more Seismic Toss/Night Shade)?

Upon looking at Linked and Benjamin Butterfree, this does seem a little too similar. I guess this is pretty much linked except the second move is carried out by the prevo. And it probably would be wise to ban protect and put the rest of those moves on a watchlist.

 

[Wes8888]

Upon looking at Linked and Benjamin Butterfree, this does seem a little too similar. I guess this is pretty much linked except the second move is carried out by the prevo. And it probably would be wise to ban protect and put the rest of those moves on a watchlist.

Honestly though I think the fact that second move is carried out by an entirely different pokemon with a potentially different typing and ability makes it different enough from linked.

 

[prunyy]

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?

I’ve been thinking about this idea quite a bit, I won’t explain the premise and all that again, just read the post I replied to.

Also wanted to say that I think I would ban Terastallization right off the bat here, it just seems strong for a meta that gives every pokemon buffs on switch-in,

One more mechanic clarification, something like Coalossal would first set Sandstorm, then override it with Sun. Rotom-Mow would set Electric Terrain, then overrided by Grassy Terrain. If two pokemon both have weather or terrain setting types, the slower pokemon would have the advantage because the faster pokemon would set it first and the slower one would override it after.

What if I were to lock that ability so that it only works when the pokemon is holding a specific item like “Maximize”, which does nothing but gives the buffs of the Gen 8 max moves on switch-in. This way, we can also restrict pokemon from doing all the funny business, like Chi-Yu, who might stand a chance if it couldn’t take advantage of the premise.

Fighting, Poison, Ghost, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, and Dark are all the offensive types. Ground, Rock, Bug, Steel, Ice, Dragon, and Fairy are all Defensive types. Flying and Normal can be used by both pretty much. An exception can be made for Fire and Water as their effects half the damage of Water and Fire moves respectively but I would assume they would be used offensively usually. This is an almost equal split of offensive and defensive abilities, actually, being 11-9 (including Flying and Normal), and a perfect split of 11-11 if we include Fire and Water being defensive types as well. Some offensive pokemon like Chien-Pao don’t really get many benefits as well so I feel like the meta won’t be too offensive after banning the blatantly overpowered stuff. Which brings me on to my next question…

Should the Tera type also be included as a customizable option? I feel like the meta would become quite bland as the same pokemon are doing the same things, with some pokemon not being able to use their native types usefully. This can add a bit of flavor and variety and move away from the same old buffs every pokemon gets. The problem with this is that something like Quaquaval can go Tera Fighting and get a whopping +2 Atk on switch-in. Maybe, you can use a Tera Steel Armarouge to threaten the KO with Psychic. It inspires creativity, but like in literally every other format, its offensive power can get out of hand. Tera Flying also seems incredibly strong as well so you can use your own Tera Flying or a Tera Normal to force the opponent to switch-out.

So what do you guys think?
Is the meta still incredibly offensive even after item locking it?
Should Tera be allowed in this? Not to Terastallize, but as a second or third effect for pokemon.

Edit: This DOES NOT use Gen 8 mechanics. It just associates each type with a certain buff. I can debate with you more to prove my point to you if you want a clear explanation.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I’ve been thinking about this idea quite a bit, I won’t explain the premise and all that again, just read the post I replied to.

Also wanted to say that I think I would ban Terastallization right off the bat here, it just seems strong for a meta that gives every pokemon buffs on switch-in,

One more mechanic clarification, something like Coalossal would first set Sandstorm, then override it with Sun. Rotom-Mow would set Electric Terrain, then overrided by Grassy Terrain. If two pokemon both have weather or terrain setting types, the slower pokemon would have the advantage because the faster pokemon would set it first and the slower one would override it after.

What if I were to lock that ability so that it only works when the pokemon is holding a specific item like “Maximize”, which does nothing but gives the buffs of the Gen 8 max moves on switch-in. This way, we can also restrict pokemon from doing all the funny business, like Chi-Yu, who might stand a chance if it couldn’t take advantage of the premise.

Fighting, Poison, Ghost, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, and Dark are all the offensive types. Ground, Rock, Bug, Steel, Ice, Dragon, and Fairy are all Defensive types. Flying and Normal can be used by both pretty much. An exception can be made for Fire and Water as their effects half the damage of Water and Fire moves respectively but I would assume they would be used offensively usually. This is an almost equal split of offensive and defensive abilities, actually, being 11-9 (including Flying and Normal), and a perfect split of 11-11 if we include Fire and Water being defensive types as well. Some offensive pokemon like Chien-Pao don’t really get many benefits as well so I feel like the meta won’t be too offensive after banning the blatantly overpowered stuff. Which brings me on to my next question…

Should the Tera type also be included as a customizable option? I feel like the meta would become quite bland as the same pokemon are doing the same things, with some pokemon not being able to use their native types usefully. This can add a bit of flavor and variety and move away from the same old buffs every pokemon gets. The problem with this is that something like Quaquaval can go Tera Fighting and get a whopping +2 Atk on switch-in. Maybe, you can use a Tera Steel Armarouge to threaten the KO with Psychic. It inspires creativity, but like in literally every other format, its offensive power can get out of hand. Tera Flying also seems incredibly strong as well so you can use your own Tera Flying or a Tera Normal to force the opponent to switch-out.

So what do you guys think?
Is the meta still incredibly offensive even after item locking it?
Should Tera be allowed in this? Not to Terastallize, but as a second or third effect for pokemon.

Edit: This DOES NOT use Gen 8 mechanics. It just associates each type with a certain buff. I can debate with you more to prove my point to you if you want a clear explanation.

Definitely don't introduce a new held item. That by itself would disqualify this from being an OM.

I don't think you need to ban Tera. Just have the buffs only activate on switch-in (so Terastalizing something into a Fighting-type doesn't immediately grant you an Attack boost, you need to switch it out and back in to get the Attack boost; this also means that other type-changing stuff like Protean and Soak just do what they usually do without causing any weirdness with the DynaBuff mechanic) and have it so that a Terastalized Pokemon only gets the DynaBuff of their Tera type and not their base type(s). This gives players extra flexibility on which boosts a mon will get without allowing things to get too crazy with them getting three buffs at once.

 

[prunyy]

Definitely don't introduce a new held item. That by itself would disqualify this from being an OM.

I don't think you need to ban Tera. Just have the buffs only activate on switch-in (so Terastalizing something into a Fighting-type doesn't immediately grant you an Attack boost, you need to switch it out and back in to get the Attack boost; this also means that other type-changing stuff like Protean and Soak just do what they usually do without causing any weirdness with the DynaBuff mechanic) and have it so that a Terastalized Pokemon only gets the DynaBuff of their Tera type and not their base type(s). This gives players extra flexibility on which boosts a mon will get without allowing things to get too crazy with them getting three buffs at once.

I could make it so that a pokemon will have to hold no item rather than a custom one to make it work, that way I don’t need to introduce a new item.

I also like your take on balancing Tera, it allows players to have a difference between boosting their own type moves further and having a different buff on switch-in.

 

[KaenSoul]

I’ve been thinking about this idea quite a bit, I won’t explain the premise and all that again, just read the post I replied to.

Also wanted to say that I think I would ban Terastallization right off the bat here, it just seems strong for a meta that gives every pokemon buffs on switch-in,

One more mechanic clarification, something like Coalossal would first set Sandstorm, then override it with Sun. Rotom-Mow would set Electric Terrain, then overrided by Grassy Terrain. If two pokemon both have weather or terrain setting types, the slower pokemon would have the advantage because the faster pokemon would set it first and the slower one would override it after.

What if I were to lock that ability so that it only works when the pokemon is holding a specific item like “Maximize”, which does nothing but gives the buffs of the Gen 8 max moves on switch-in. This way, we can also restrict pokemon from doing all the funny business, like Chi-Yu, who might stand a chance if it couldn’t take advantage of the premise.

Fighting, Poison, Ghost, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, and Dark are all the offensive types. Ground, Rock, Bug, Steel, Ice, Dragon, and Fairy are all Defensive types. Flying and Normal can be used by both pretty much. An exception can be made for Fire and Water as their effects half the damage of Water and Fire moves respectively but I would assume they would be used offensively usually. This is an almost equal split of offensive and defensive abilities, actually, being 11-9 (including Flying and Normal), and a perfect split of 11-11 if we include Fire and Water being defensive types as well. Some offensive pokemon like Chien-Pao don’t really get many benefits as well so I feel like the meta won’t be too offensive after banning the blatantly overpowered stuff. Which brings me on to my next question…

Should the Tera type also be included as a customizable option? I feel like the meta would become quite bland as the same pokemon are doing the same things, with some pokemon not being able to use their native types usefully. This can add a bit of flavor and variety and move away from the same old buffs every pokemon gets. The problem with this is that something like Quaquaval can go Tera Fighting and get a whopping +2 Atk on switch-in. Maybe, you can use a Tera Steel Armarouge to threaten the KO with Psychic. It inspires creativity, but like in literally every other format, its offensive power can get out of hand. Tera Flying also seems incredibly strong as well so you can use your own Tera Flying or a Tera Normal to force the opponent to switch-out.

So what do you guys think?
Is the meta still incredibly offensive even after item locking it?
Should Tera be allowed in this? Not to Terastallize, but as a second or third effect for pokemon.

Edit: This DOES NOT use Gen 8 mechanics. It just associates each type with a certain buff. I can debate with you more to prove my point to you if you want a clear explanation.

Just like I said last time, you could just use an existing item like the plates to make this somehow work, but is still not an idea I'm in favor of.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I could make it so that a pokemon will have to hold no item rather than a custom one to make it work, that way I don’t need to introduce a new item.

I also like your take on balancing Tera, it allows players to have a difference between boosting their own type moves further and having a different buff on switch-in.

I don't really think you need to use held items to restrict the OM's main mechanic. You want players to engage with the central mechanic, not decide that "actually, I'd rather just use something more consistent like Choice Scarf or Leftovers". Having the DynaBuffs activate any time any Pokemon switches in will be crazy, but that's part of the fun. Plus, with the variety of buffs and debuffs and replacing field conditions, I don't think the meta will devolve into brainless snowballing. The Special Attack boost of a Poison-type can be worked around with the Special Defense boost of a Ground-type or the Special Attack drop of a Bug-type, for example.

 

[UT]

and stays in until the end of the turn.

So at the end of the turn, does it revert to its evolved forme again? So basically the faster mon attacks the FE version twice (once with the pre-evo), then the slower mon attacks the NFE version twice (once with the pre-evo), then everyone reverts to fully evolved?

We would definitely need to be more clear on how move work; if the evolved forme uses a move the pre-evo doesn't get, does it fail? not transform?

Good OMs should highlight creativity both in battle and builder; what are some strategies in both cases that you think will make this metagame more interesting?

Does this apply to attacks only, or setup as well; Dragon Dance being +2 / +2 seems extremely dangerous for example.

Just some more thoughts to flesh this out more.

 

[Wes8888]

So at the end of the turn, does it revert to its evolved forme again? So basically the faster mon attacks the FE version twice (once with the pre-evo), then the slower mon attacks the NFE version twice (once with the pre-evo), then everyone reverts to fully evolved?

We would definitely need to be more clear on how move work; if the evolved forme uses a move the pre-evo doesn't get, does it fail? not transform?

Good OMs should highlight creativity both in battle and builder; what are some strategies in both cases that you think will make this metagame more interesting?

Does this apply to attacks only, or setup as well; Dragon Dance being +2 / +2 seems extremely dangerous for example.

Just some more thoughts to flesh this out more.

Yes, they do revert back to their fully evolved forms at the end of the turn. And the way I imagined this working was like, okay imagine like a pre-evo standing on the fully evolved mon's shoulder. When the fully evolved mon uses a move, imagine the pre-evo jumps down (the fully evolved turns into it basically) and immediately gets to choose another move (it doesn't have to choose the same one). Then once the turn officially ends is when the pre-evo jumps back up onto the shoulder (turns back to its fully evolved form). Potential strategies could include things like this:

Curse Garg

Garganacl @ Eviolite
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Salt Cure
- Curse
- Body Press
- Recover

The idea is Garg uses curse and then switches to Naclstack, who can use curse again or potentially heal. Then Garg continues cursing, using salt cure, and healing while Naclstack throws out strong body presses. I don't think defensive tera types matter as much in this meta, since your opponent has a second chance to hit you with an effective type, so fighting is just there to boost body press.

Suicide Lead Glimmora

Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Mortal Spin
- Sludge Wave

If glimmora can move first, its focus sash will let it move four times before going down, allowing it to set stealth rock and three layers of spikes, not to mention possible toxic debris proccs. It doesn't even mind the poor bulk of glimmet since it has a sash anyway.

Double Dragon reference

Salamence @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Outrage

Given the fact that Salamence gets Intimidate and that Shelgon actually has a pretty solid defense stat, it could get off two dragon dances and survive a physical attack. A +2 Salamence Outrage is probably enough to KO non resists, but if you go the Earthquake route, shelgon could phaze things out with Dragon Tail to keep racking up chip. Actually, you could just click the DD + Phaze combo until you're maxed out, so I might need to take action on either Salamence, Phazing, or DD, whichever proves to be the most broken.

I hope the mechanics are clearer now, thanks for the feedback.

 

[UT]

When the fully evolved mon uses a move, imagine the pre-evo jumps down (the fully evolved tirns into it basically) and immediately gets to choose another move (it doesn't have to choose the same one).

Executing two different moves in the same turn may be a problem for the UI; Instruct thoughts?

 

[Wes8888]

Executing two different moves in the same turn may be a problem for the UI; Instruct thoughts?

It worked for linked back in gen 7, but the mon switching would probably make coding it a lot harder.

 

[HiZo]

When the fully evolved mon uses a move, imagine the pre-evo jumps down (the fully evolved turns into it basically) and immediately gets to choose another move (it doesn't have to choose the same one).

Outlook not so good.

It worked for linked back in gen 7, but the mon switching would probably make coding it a lot harder.

This is flawed logic because Linked understands what to call if moveslot one or two was picked, this idea requires making a move request in a place that it doesn’t usually go, and I’m not sure if Pokemon Showdown will like that.

 

[Wes8888]

Outlook not so good.


This is flawed logic because Linked understands what to call if moveslot one or two was picked, this idea requires making a move request in a place that it doesn’t usually go, and I’m not sure if Pokemon Showdown will like that.

I understand, is there anything I could change to make it easier to code?

 

[KaenSoul]

What if you make it work like a double battle when choosing moves?
May have the two mons out at all times, but you only have to target the evolved one.

 

[Wes8888]

What if you make it work like a double battle when choosing moves?
May have the two mons out at all times, but you only have to target the evolved one.

That's an idea

 

[DrPumpkinz]

What if you make it work like a double battle when choosing moves?
May have the two mons out at all times, but you only have to target the evolved one.

Doing it that way would nerf self-targeting status moves like Swords Dance and Recover (probably for the better) since they would only affect the prevo and not the evo, and it would also open up new strategies with stuff like Helping Hand and Heal Pulse.

 

[Wes8888]

What if you make it work like a double battle when choosing moves?
May have the two mons out at all times, but you only have to target the evolved one.

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

So here's what I'm thinking. You would have three pairs of pokemon (ex: Garganacl + Naclstack, Salamence + Shelgon, Glimmora + Glimmet). You have to lead with a pair, so if you chose Garganacl, Naclstack has to come too. If one of them switches, the other goes with it, and you're only allowed to have a valid pair of pokemon out at the same time. For example, if you switch out Garganacl to Glimmora, Naclstack will be forced to switch to Glimmet. While on the field targeting and move order would work like this; at the beginning of the turn, you choose both of the moves your pokemon will use, like normal, but the pre-evo is forced to move right after the FE moves (like how after you works). As for targeting, before the FE moves, all moves would be forced to hit it (like follow me). However, right after the pre-evo moves, the follow me effect shifts to them and all moves will hit them for the rest of the turn. HP % would be shared (ex: if garg gets hit and falls to 50%, nacl falls to 50% too) Status effects are shared (ex: if garg gains the burn status, nacl gains it too) and stat changes are shared (ex: if garg uses curse, nacl gets the same boost; if garg gets intimidated, nacl's attack drops too). Preferably, they would also have to have same EVs, IVs, Moves (if the pre-evo can't learn a move that the FE can, it will just be an empty slot + pp is shared) Item, and Ability if applicable (if the FE has an ability the Prevo can't have, it will be the one in the same slot. Ex: supreme overlord Kingambit would be accompanied by inner focus Bisharp). I understand that this is a lot, and I totally understand if changes have to made or if it just can't be done, but this is the most ideal scenario for me. One last thing, it'd be super cool to be able to have six pairs (since hp is shared between pairs it would be like regular 6v6) but since that probably wouldn't be possible 3 pairs is fine.

 

[KaenSoul]

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

So here's what I'm thinking. You would have three pairs of pokemon (ex: Garganacl + Naclstack, Salamence + Shelgon, Glimmora + Glimmet). You have to lead with a pair, so if you chose Garganacl, Naclstack has to come too. If one of them switches, the other goes with it, and you're only allowed to have a valid pair of pokemon out at the same time. For example, if you switch out Garganacl to Glimmora, Naclstack will be forced to switch to Glimmet. While on the field targeting and move order would work like this; at the beginning of the turn, you choose both of the moves your pokemon will use, like normal, but the pre-evo is forced to move right after the FE moves (like how after you works). As for targeting, before the FE moves, all moves would be forced to hit it (like follow me). However, right after the pre-evo moves, the follow me effect shifts to them and all moves will hit them for the rest of the turn. HP % would be shared (ex: if garg gets hit and falls to 50%, nacl falls to 50% too) Status effects are shared (ex: if garg gains the burn status, nacl gains it too) and stat changes are shared (ex: if garg uses curse, nacl gets the same boost; if garg gets intimidated, nacl's attack drops too). Preferably, they would also have to have same EVs, IVs, Moves (if the pre-evo can't learn a move that the FE can, it will just be an empty slot + pp is shared) Item, and Ability if applicable (if the FE has an ability the Prevo can't have, it will be the one in the same slot. Ex: supreme overlord Kingambit would be accompanied by inner focus Bisharp). I understand that this is a lot, and I totally understand if changes have to made or if it just can't be done, but this is the most ideal scenario for me. One last thing, it'd be super cool to be able to have six pairs (since hp is shared between pairs it would be like regular 6v6) but since that probably wouldn't be possible 3 pairs is fine.

I liked it more before, now is just a very complex doubles with a bunch of weird restrictions, and it would be impossible to describe in a simple rule like any OM is required to.
I think the best would be to make it as simple as possible, a middle point between both versions:
No need to build the preevo, they may as well not exists at this point. You build a regular team of 6 or 3, up to you.
When you send out a mon, if it has a preevo it will appear next to it with the exact same set, and it disappears if the fully evolved leaves the field.
It doesn't keep any move it can't learn, and the ability gets replaced depending on the ability slot.
All other mechanics are the same as a regular double battle.
So yeah the premise would be "When you send out a mon, if it has a preevo it will appear next to it with the exact same set, and it disappears if the fully evolved leaves the field".

 

[Wes8888]

I liked it more before, now is just a very complex doubles with a bunch of weird restrictions, and it would be impossible to describe in a simple rule like any OM is required to.
I think the best would be to make it as simple as possible, a middle point between both versions:
No need to build the preevo, they may as well not exists at this point. You build a regular team of 6 or 3, up to you.
When you send out a mon, if it has a preevo it will appear next to it with the exact same set, and it disappears if the fully evolved leaves the field.
It doesn't keep any move it can't learn, and the ability gets replaced depending on the ability slot.
All other mechanics are the same as a regular double battle.
So yeah the premise would be "When you send out a mon, if it has a preevo it will appear next to it with the exact same set, and it disappears if the fully evolved leaves the field".

Okay this sounds a lot better actually, thank you.