It Will Rain - RU Collab Challenge!

[Yonko7]

I think that Lanturn is label as a threat to rain, that should be said in the description how it is a threat to rain :P

I don't think that Lanturn is that much of a threat, as Ludicolo does ~60% with Giga Drain, and Kabutops can OHKO with a +2 Stone Edge.

 

[Pocket]

@ Yonko7's Moltres: Please make Life Orb and HP Grass the main option and Lefties SubRoost as Other Options. Moltres needs the LO boost to soften up the rain counters, and HP Grass for Lanturn!

As for its shortcomings, you can mention how Seismitoad can switch into Electric- and Rock-type moves aimed at Moltres. Also for Kabutops, remove the mention of Aqua Jet, since that's most likely the move that will be replaced with Rapid Spin.

Nice find, Yonko7!

@ Phazon00's Ludicolo: Why 30 Atk / 30 Def? It doesn't have Hidden Power Ice -.- Also give a bigger emphasis of its Grass-typing, imo, providing it the necessary STAB to 2HKO these bulky Water-types like Lanturn and Slowking which would otherwise tank weak Grass moves with ease.

Under shortcomings, please add specially-defensive Clefable and Cryogonal into the list. More importantly, you should elaborate more about why Kabutops, etc are good teammates. Specifically, Kabutops can OHKO Roserade with an unboosted Stone Edge after SR. It can also replace Aqua Jet for Superpower to remove pesky specially-defensive Normal-types and Ferroseed.

Other good teammates include physically offensive mons like CB Escavalier and SD Gallade that can easily pierce through Roserade, Amoonguss, Clefable's uninvested defense while butchering Ferroseed as well.

Mention that its Speed is sometimes not sufficient even while in Rain. Scarf Galvantula and faster can revenge-kill Ludicolo. Having a faster Swift Swim member like Kabutops and Qwilfish certainly helps. Strong priority moves from Entei or Spritomb / Absol is also problematic. Kabutops come in handy here because it doesn't take much from Entei's ExtremeSpeed. Aqua Jet from Kabutops, Qwilfish, Floatzel, etc can be useful to make Sucker Punch from Spiritomb & Absol fail.

Unburden Hitmonlee can Fake Out Flinch and end up faster than Ludicolo as well. Again, strong Water-boosted Aqua Jet from the likes of Basculin helps. Volbeat can switch into Hitmonlee's Fake Out and lock it into this now-useless move, force it to waste Unburden boost. Or you may simply pack a bulky Psychic Rain summoner like Uxie or Creselia.

I think a heavy emphasis on Rain summoners that complement well with Ludicolo is key. Lanturn can absorb Electric-type moves like T-Wave and set up Rain reliably. It has a slow Volt Switch to bring in Ludicolo safely into the field after setting Rain. Even more, it has access to Heal Bell, which is nice if Ludicolo ever gets paralyzed or Scald Burned. I already mentioned Volbeat and Uxie / Cresselia above. Cresselia is nice for Lunar Dance, to restore Ludicolo to full-health, thereby promoting the 2nd surge of Ludicolo's rampage.

There's quite a bit you can say in OO. Elaborate that Focus Blast is good for Ferroseed and for Clefable outside of Rain. Rain Dance is not really bad on Ludicolo because it will be taken out (it's quite bulky and does an excellent job at forcing switches), but mostly because Ludicolo often requires two hits to take down bulkier mons, so giving the opponent a free turn while it sets up Rain means that bulkier Pokemon now has a chance to retaliate.

Also mention Timid Nature. It's quite useful for outrunning Scarf Genesect, as well as being faster than Adamant Kabutops and Modest Nidoqueen outside of Rain.

(Sorry, I have much to say about Ludicolo!)

I'll comment on Smeargle & Lanturn later, since I want you to perfect your Ludicolo analysis first. Thanks for doing this Phazon00 :)

 

[Ernesto]

Shouldn't Uxie's Rain Summoner set mention Memento somewhere? It's quite useful to get a Swift Swimmer in for free mid to late game to go for a sweep, once things like Lee and Slowking have been taken out or weakened...
Also, Moltres under Rain is awesome. I prefer Offensive SubRoost @LO to Roost + 3 attacks, but I reckon Lanturn can be a big threat if Tops or Ludicolo can't get a free switch in to beat them.
That Escavalier set seems really nice, I must try it out. I also like how this challenge encourages people to use powerful NU threats to their greatest potential, and not just Ludicolo, but Seismitoad and Basculin, too... I'd love to see this happening in UnderUsed too, but I guess its time will come sooner or later

Overall, awesome job so far! I'll try to contribute later on if I have a chance

 

[Phazon00]

Thanks for the edits. I have no freaking idea what happened with the IVs. I know I didn't notice. I guess I ain't very observant.

I think I already mentioned how Kabutops can smash Roselia (I assume you meant that) but I'll add the OHKO part. Also, I added Cryo, Clefable and Munchlax as defensive threats.

I haven't found Gallade as all that great of a partner for Ludicolo, as I personally think Escavalier's quick knockout is better for a Rain team as opposed to Gallade's setting up. Setting up SDs is not a bad way to use up Rain turns, but it would be much better to just kill 'em. Besides, Escavalier's typing is more benefited by the rain.

Changed the second paragraph to add Scarfed Galvantula. I also mentioned Superpower Kabutops, as it is a big threat to many Ludicolo checks. Also, mentioned Lanturn as a solid Rain Support Partner.

I do not like Focus Blast and Rain Dance, but now they have slightly more prominence in the OO.

Timid nature is cool, but the power drop really hurts. And also, Genesect isn't RU. Did you mean Galvantula?

Thanks for the input and your hard work on this guide, Pocket.

 

[Pocket]

Thank you soo much for getting this done, Phazon00, Ludicolo is now added! I moved some paragraphs around to better fit the sections. I will look at your other entries later.

Smeargle is an interesting entry, though. Has anyone considered using Smeargle on their Rain teams?

Thanks, Ernesto - Memento is definitely a utility move of choice to set up Shell Smash, etc. The loss of 1 Rain summoner is quite a cost, so it must be timed well. Added Memento under Uxie's Other Options :)

Also gonna award last week's best Discussion poster to the our new fellow, Buckles! Please post more!

 

[Buckles]

Also gonna award last week's best Discussion poster to the our new fellow, Buckles! Please post more!

Aww thanks! But I didn't prepare an acceptance speech....

Anywho, I've been floating around 30th on the ladder, about 1800 points with Liepard and Uxie summoning, Kabu and Ludicolo sweeping and help from Scarf Rotom-C and Nidoqueen. It's good, but I'm ready to start experimenting. Gonna try out Beartic (why isn't he part Water :P) as a sweeper with CB Esca and LO Moltres. I'll update with results in a bit.

 

[Pocket]

I need to warn you that Beartic is not good. I tried it out myself, but its Ice STAB is not worth the loss of Water STAB. It's essentially a poor man's Kabutops.

Anybody have any luck completing the ladder challenge? I've been busy myself, but I'll try laddering tonight and see how far I can go xd. There are plenty of replacements for Kabutops, I believe, but nothing really fills Ludicolo's role. Maybe I'll just go all-physical with a Shell Smasher lol

 

[Phazon00]

Nah, this ladder challenge is impossible unless you cheat. The first one was tough enough, and the only one that beat it is Pocket, who OBVIOUSLY rigged it (Fess up- I know you did) and the new one is worse.

 

[col49]

Ya know, dunno why I didn't post in this earlier, it's pretty neat. Gonna have to try this challenge too, looks like a fun excuse to run some neat obscure stuff :D

alt: suburban doxology

 

[Buckles]

Yeah, Beartic REALLY needs to be part Water. He'd be so much better. As it is, he just lacks a lot of power. Loving Liepard though, Encore and Taunt together is really useful to keep hazards at bay and discourage setups giving you time to make Rain happen.

Ladder challenge looks super tough, but I'll sign up for the heck of it. Alt is Waterworld. Gonna basically pin it all on Gorebyss with a bunch of VoltTurning and a big ol' Moltres.

 

[Reymedy]

Is this still possible to contribute? There are alot of other options. I'll start with a Rain summoner that isn't used at all but who sports a really good movepool !

HP : 95 / Atk : 70 / Def : 73 / SpA : 85 / SpD : 90 / Spe : 60

Clefable @ Damp Rock
Trait : Magic Guard
Evs : 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rain Dance
- Wish
- Softboiled / Protect
- Thunder / Stealth Rock


Classification : Rain Summoner

Description :
Clefable is one hell of a support, sporting a massiv assisting movepool. This is no surprise that Clefable can turn to be a solid way to bring Rain onto the field.
Its advantage over any other Rain Summoner is that Clefable learn recovery moves. Yes, Clefable not only learns SoftBoiled but also Wish, which is given Clefable's decent HP stat of 394 a good way to bring safely your Rain Sweepers onto the field. You don't have to be afraid of Stealth Rock when you bring your Moltres, and then you can proceed to crush anything living with overpowered Hurricane.
Another strong advantage remains in its special ability : Magic Guard. Clefable can come in and out with no fear, and this is a HUGE plus for any Rain summoner. Paired with her Recovery potential, Clefable isn't crippled by the loss of Leftovers, and excels in the role of a defensive rain summoning pivot.
Thunder is usually a good choice since in RU, not many rain sweeper are Thunder spammers, so the extra coverage, the big base power and the possibility to Paralyse is a good thing to have to be be totally a set-up bait.
Clefable also learn useful support moves like Heal Bell and Stealth Rock, that make this pokemon really easy to fit into a Rain Team.
Her decent defensive typing also allow Clefable to not be a burden for the Rain teams as Clefable can soak up easily the strong Grass and Electric atacks thanks to its bulk.


Shortcomings:
Clefable offensive presence is really dim at best if you make it go the support way. Beside being able to learn moves like Thunder along with a decent SpA stat of 85, Clefable will have issues to do anything but supporting your team. Thankfully, Clefable can learn Encore to prevent a set-up at the cost of an useful move slot. Moreover Uxie, with its superior Bulk and similar support possibilities, gives a hard time to Clefable. However, Clefable and Uxie can perfectly be combined since they gather in two pokemons all the support a Rain team could dream of. Wish and Softboiled are really what help Clefable to compete with Uxie along with Magic Guard immunity. And Wish support + Uxie is something almost unbreakable in RU.
Clefable bulk is far from being perfect, in such an offensively inclined Metagame, the little pink blob will not always be able to take strong hits while supporting its team.

Other Options:
The options Clefable could bring to the table are larges. Given its big movepool, you can easily modulate Clefable's moveset to make it fit your team.
Notable moves would be Encore, Healing Wish, Dual Screens, Heal Bell and Statusing moves.
As mentionned, Clefable offensive stats are decent, so it is possible to make Clefable fill an offensive role thanks to its big movepool on both physical and special side but you give up all the support Clefable could bring.


EDIT @Pocket : I used it along with Mesprit as Rain support. Why did I chose Clefable? For the Wish, its Special bulk, its Magic Guard (definitely a huge asset for a Rain summoner) and its typing (covers Uxie weakness, and with the increasing number of Psychic pokemons in RU, I believe many teams will be over prepared to it, so having Uxie + Cresselia/Mesprit seemed an awful idea to me).
I believe my team was like Uxie Clefable Ludicolo Kabutops Seismitoad and Moltres. Sometimes I changed Moltres for Rotom-C though.

 

[Pocket]

Phazon00, I just read your Lanturn entry, and it's good, but I'd like to change the point of view from which you're writing. You're writing from the perspective of the Lanturn user facing a Rain team. I want you to write from the opposite perspective of the Rain user facing a Lanturn team :0

Shortcomings would then be the section where you tell readers Lanturn's flaws so they can exploit it. For instance, its weakness to Grass and Ground-type moves allow Nidoqueen and Rotom-C to be fantastic partners for a Rain team. Seismitoad can switch into T-Wave / Volt Switch and threaten it with STAB Earth Power.

Another shortcoming is its lack of recovery moves outside of Leftovers or Rest. Thus when you see Lanturn, playing aggressively and overloading on Rain assaults can easily overwhelm Lanturn.

Other Options would warn readers the many probable possibilities of moves when encountering Lanturn. You did this well for the most part, but just change the point of view.

In the main description, I would emphasize Lanturn's unique Water / Electric typing, allowing it to stomache powerful Water-type moves, while crippling or removing Rain sweepers with Thunder Wave or Electric STAB.

------------------------------

As for Smeargle, I haven't tried it on a Rain team, but its certainly reasonable to believe that it would help Rain Sweepers immensely nab those KOs with its Spikes support. I'll give this a test drive before adding it :d

--------------------------------

Remedy, thanks for your first contribution! Clefable certainly has the resources to be a decent Rain summoner, but it certainly has competition in the limited slot of Rain teams. It must somehow distinguish itself from the likes of Cresselia, Mesprit, etc, which can do similar things.

I am not sure of the particular set you have presented. Too many slashes; the lesser options should move into Other Options. Also Clefable seems to lack the ability to safely bring in Rain Sweepers, which is a crucial aspect of Rain Summoners. Moves like Encore, Healing Wish, and even Sing help accomplish this. Gonna have to test this out myself to gain a better understanding of Clefable's role on a Rain team. Regardless, thank you for your contribution!

If anybody else have any feedback on Clefable and Smeargle on Rain teams, I'd love to hear it >;D

 

[col49]

lol, I had just wrote a whole big post on this stuff then my computer up and died on me. Well whatever, I'll see what I can say.

I have been using Smeargle on my Rain team, and it is imo the best and only way for a Rain team to set multiple hazards. I don't know how other players having been taking to this challenge, but I feel as though manual rain is at it's best in a purely offensive format, with maybe one defensive pivot to hold the team together. A team relying on setting up hazards slowly would require 2 hazard users (barring ineffectual stuff like SR+Spikes Ferroseed) and a spin-blocker. Not only does this restrict three team-slots to accomplishing this, but also severely impedes momentum, which is key is any given offensively oriented team. That being said, I've been running a rather similar set to that posted by Phazon00, with some minor differences. One would be the EV spread (92 HP/120 Def/44 SpD/252 Spe, 'cuz strong), and the other being the use of Memento over Whirlwind. This makes Smeargle much less reliant on a Ghost-type blocking the Rapid Spin, allowing it to self-spinblock spinners such as Cryogonal and Adamant Kabutops (also Weakslash, and non-Jolly Weakmonchan and Weakmonlee, but I don't care for them :< ). Moreover, this allows Smeargle to act as even more of a team player, blunting the opponent's attacking power and allowing a Rain sweeper to set up without much hassle, allowing it to nab that free turn without all the hassle.

Thus far I've been yielding a decent amount of success on the challenge, hitting the 1800 mark, and I can definitely say the lack of 'Tops and Ludi is palpable. Though it definitely does inspire some creativity in play, it is somewhat unrealistic to a more "standard" rain team, as not utilizing one or more of such excellent Rain sweepers is a waste :[ Also expect some posts from me on Cress (why hasn't it been brought up yet .-.), MANtine, and Absol, 'cuz strong.

P.S Pocket should drop the top 5 req so I can win :]]]

 

[Pocket]

col49, that was very enlightening read - that's what I'm talking about! >:D

Yea, Memento is definitely a viable option for setting up (Rain Summoner or Rain Sweeper?), although Whirlwind is still nice to prevent Smeargle from becoming set-up bait for faster threats (Sceptile :0)

Please elaborate on your wonky EV spread, I want to be strong, too.

I am definitely looking forward to Cresselia entry - it's a godly supporter. MANtine doesn't seem so manly considering there are better options available imo (Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Floatzel, Omastar / Gorebyss or even non-Swift Swimmers). Absol would be an interesting read :o

UPDATE: Dropping the Ladder Challenge's requirement to reaching top 10 cuz i'm nice.

 

[col49]

I run self-sufficient Rain sweepers since the need for another coverage move / boosting move seemed unnecessary, so I guess I was referring to sweepers :P As for the case of Sceptile, getting up a Sub is a pain, but any other set still gets appropriately neutered.

I like the use of the word wonky, that's basically what it is really :P Basically I decided on the EV spread a while ago for basically all my Smeargle. The end result of it is basically some slight amount of Special Defense for a little Defense. While it's definitely situational, this allows it to live 5 Rock Blast hits from uninvested Crustle, while still taking a Psychic+U-Turn form 252 SpA Timid Uxie bar 2 high damage rolls. It's rather situational, but most times that Smeargle takes more than one hit without going to down to Sash can be considered situational lol.

MANtine's biggest thing it has going for it is Flying STAB, a Grass neutrality, and really nice natural Special bulk, so it's definitely niche, but it's not "outclassed" per say :P

Also thanks, I'll see if I can't jump up some spots on the ladder :]

 

[Pocket]

OK, a few things to announce:

~ col49 is selected as the best poster of the week! Awesome feedback, man!

~ Points: The Award system has been eradicated, but I will still be keeping the point-system and have the top contributors listed on the leaderboard (min. 3 pts to get on for now ;)). Check the OP to take a look. Yonko7 is #1 followed closely by Phazon00 - thank you so much, guys!

~ Multiple Challenges: Instead of forcing you guys to do 1 particular ladder challenge, I have the past 2 ladder challenges available for completion. This way you can choose the difficulty level of your choosing. The harder missions are worth more points, of course! When registering your alt, please mention which ladder challenge you are participating. If one or more challenger completes the hardest ladder challenge available, I will unlock a new ladder challenge for the ambitious to conquer! More details available here.

A new week begins with a new round of ladder challenge! I hope to see a victor emerge by the end of this round ;o

 

[col49]

Welp, I think I'll use this week as an excuse to start up the challenge (obv.the harder one, because I'm dumb and have to :] ) on a clean alt, since my last team was truthfully pretty sloppily built, and I wanna start fresh.

alt: out loud

 

[Ashley11]

I will try this. My alt is Little Drizzle. Are we allowed to post our experiences with our teams here too?

 

[Pocket]

Of course, Ashley! In fact I highly encourage it! This is above all else, a discussion thread :) Which challenge are you doing, btw (level 1 / level 2)?

I for one am having a ridiculously swell time sweeping people with SD Qwilfish and LO Omastar! To illustrate Qwilfish's power, it OHKOs Lanturn after rocks! My team is as hyper-offensive as it can get. Memento on Uxie is actually quite nice for providing these mons set-up opportunities. I also have BDrum Poliwrath which of course appreciates the Memento support xd Honestly I don't find myself missing Kabutops or Ludicolo much at all, because these mons pack lots of firepower, too! The only thing I probably miss is Kabutop's Aqua Jet and Ludicolo's usable special bulk.

 

[ss234]

I attempted the second rain challenge, but I failed miserably. It seems I suck at RU rain lol.

Carracosta @ White Herb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spd / 80 SDef
Lonely Nature
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge

Classification: Swift Swimmer
Description:Carracosta is a pretty cool mon to use in the rain. After a shell smash, and in the rain, it is out speeding almost everything, even stuff like Modest Ludicolo in the rain. It is also destroying everything thanks to the rain boost to Aqua Jet. You are quite literally smashing through offensive teams with ease, as the things that resist Aqua Jet, such as Rotom-C, Jynx and Sceptile, are 1HKO'd by either Ice Beam or Stone Edge. Even stuff like Tangrowth can't stand up to this guys onslaught. One of the best things about this guy though is that even without the rain he can still wreck things left and right, although he does lose quite a lot of speed and power.

The ev spread is pretty weird(it seems I'm pretty good at creating these), but all the ev's serve a purpose. 252 Att is obvious to allow you to smash through almost everything with a +2 Aqua Jet in the rain, 80 SpD allows you to survive 2 full power Hurricane's from Moltres iirc, 80 speed allows you to outspeed Modest Ludicolo in the rain and the rest is put into HP to take hits better from both the physical and special side. A Lonely nature maximises his attack, and allows you to 1HKO tangrowth all the time with Ice Beam, which wouldn't be possible with an Adamant nature.

Shortcomings: Carracosta relies heavily on set-up, and without a Shell Smash under its belt it is out sped by sceptile and rotom-c with ease. Therefore, memento support from the likes of uxie is appreciated, as it allows you to set-up a shell smash with ease. Although this set does hit incredibly hard, it has significant issues with Poliwrath, who can wall you for days thanks to water absorb and a resistance to both stone edge and ice beam. Therefore, Jynx is an excellent partner, as it can destroy poliwrath with a powerful psychic. Ludicolo can also deal with poliwrath easily, thanks to its secondary grass typing.

Other options: Waterfall is certainly an option over Ice Beam, however you do lose the ability to 1HKO tangrowth which is certainly nice. HP Grass can be used over Ice Beam if you have serious troubles with Poliwrath-however, you won't even be 2HKO ing it most of the time.

 

[ss234]

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Explosion
- Poison Jab

Classification: Swift Swimmer
Description: Qwilfish is one very dangerous puffer-fish in the rain. With a Swords Dance under it's belt, not much can stop this little fish, and those that can may lose a huge chunk of their health via Explosion. Thanks to it's unique typing, Qwilfish also absorbs Toxic Spikes-which can really limit the lifespan of rain sweepers such as Jynx and Ludicolo. This unique typing also gives it poison STAB. Normally, poison STAB is pretty terrible, but it comes in very handy on rain teams, as it allows qwilfish to 2HKO both Poliwrath and Tangrowth, which are normally major threats to physical rain sweepers. It also has a small chance to 1HKO defensive Slowking and Lanturn thanks to Poison Jab, as well as beating Sceptile and Rotom-C even without the boost. Poison typing also allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes, which slowly sap the health from your rain sweepers. Finally, Qwilfish also has a base 85 speed-which allows it to outspeed opposing Kabutops, which can use the rain against you and threaten a sweep of its own.

Shortcomings: There really aren't that many ways of stopping qwilfish, thanks to Explosion and poison STAB, which allows it to get past most physical walls that plague physical rain sweepers. However, there are a few. Quagsire can ignore qwilfish's boosts, and proceed to fire off Earthquake's that will severely dent the puffer fish. Ferroseed resists all of qwilfish's moves, and can slowly weaken it with Leech Seed or paralyze it with Thunder Wave. Opposing Qwilfish are also hard for this set to handle, however it really can't do much back except paralyze you. To fix these problems, Ludicolo easily handles opposing Qwilfish and Quagsire, thanks to it's grass STAB. Belly Drum Poliwrath also handles Ferroseed quite well, but watch out for Thunder Wave, as well as opposing Qwilfish. Due to the loss of Intimidate on this set, qwilfish lacks a lot of bulk. This leaves him open to priority attacks from the likes of Absol and Entei. Once again, Belly Drum Poliwrath can set-up easily on Absol, while Omastar and Kabutops can take Entei's ExtremeSpeed. Memento support from Uxie is also very helpful in getting qwilfish to set-up.

Other options: You can use Taunt and Poison Jab, foregoing Explosion-however, Explosion is a really great choice on qwilfish to 1HKO poliwrath, allowing Kabutops and the like to plough through the opponents team. Qwilfish also learns spikes, and can quite easily set-up a layer or two if you're team needs them. However, Qwilfish is at its best when firing off powerful Waterfall's and seriously weakening defensive rain threats with a +2 Explosion or +2 Poison Jab. Qwilfish can also use Thunder Wave, however this really isn't going to be helping your rain sweepers as they are already extremely fast. Qwilfish does have access to Aqua Jet too, however you have to fore go Swords Dance, and Aqua Jet really isn't that powerful without a SD boost. Finally, Aqua Tail is an option over Waterfall due to the increased power-however, Qwilfish already hits extremely hard, and because qwilfish is so frail a single miss could prove fatal.

 

[Phazon00]

Qwilfish. YES. That thing really is a threat... but it is also kind of psychological, as not many people are scared of the puffer fish, plus many people expect the support set because it is the only one on smogon. Next thing they know, they're getting lambasted by a puffer fish. It was a lot of fun to use, even though I too, failed miserably at the challenge. I still remember getting a critical hit on a +2 Explosion on someone's Cress, one shotting it...

In conclusion, Qwilfish wins life.

 

[Yonko7]

Qwilfish can also set up Spikes for Rain teams, as it could replace maybe Poison Jab or Explosion, but they should be the main options. Add Spikes to Other Options please :)

 

[Pocket]

Big BIG Thank You's to Silvershadow234 for keeping this thread in check while I was in a mission to save Genesect (I failed ;-;)

Also I just did the impossible and completed Level 2 >:)

I went 150% offense and pretty much cruised the ladder with BDrum Poliwrath, Shell Smash Omastar, and SD Qwilfish! I would usually lead with Uxie to set up Rain and Memento sacrifice to bring in Poliwrath / Omastar ready for a free set-up. Poliwrath pairs particularly well with Uxie, since the latter lures in Dark- and Bug-types that Poliwrath drums all over their face! Qwilfish and Omastar were both awesome for the immediate punch that Poliwrath lacked. End-game I restore one of my sweeper's health with Lunar Dance Cresselia and go for round 2, lol.

New Ladder period with fresh alts will begin (deadline 12/17/12) with a new ladder challenge unlocked! It may actually be easier than the 2nd challenge, so give it a spin!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Silvershadow234, thanks for your two entries of both amazing Rain Pokemon. Anyways, I have ALOT to say about Qwilfish, so brace yourself!

~ Please move mention of Taunt to OO.

~ Also you really sell short its STAB Poison Jab, which is the main reason to use this critter. With Poison Jab, it can easily dispatch annoying Grass-types and Bulky Waters. +2 Poison Jab is an OHKO against Tangrowth after SR. Poliwrath takes 58% min from the same move (an easy 2HKO with a 30% chance of poison!), another major advantage over Kabutops. +2 PJab has a 30% and 68% chance to OHKO bulky Slowking and Lanturn after SR, respectively. Please fix your descriptions to more accurately portray the usefulness of STAB Poison Jab

~ Please note its 85 base Speed, which lets it outpace opposing Swift Swim Kabutops.

~ Although uncommon, the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes is a major boon for Rain Sweepers

~ Remove Poliwrath from shortcomings, since it really can't do much to Qwilfish, whereas the pufferfish can 2HKO it easy with PJab after SD (or OHKO with Explosion). Remove Tangrowth, too. There really aren't many shortcomings tbh, lol.

~ Opposing defensive Qwilfish, Unaware / Water Absorb Quagsire, and Ferroseed are tough for Qwilfish to break. You can mention Ludicolo here to deal with the former two, while BDrum Poliwrath can take care of Qwilfish and Ferroseed splendidly.

~ Under shortcomings add that Qwilfish is frail with no Intimidate / defensive investment; it will lose an enormous chunk of health from CB Entei's ExtremeSpeed or from STAB Sucker Punch's. Include that Lunar Dance or Healing Wish from the likes of Cresselia or Mesprit would help rejuvinate Qwilfish for another round of destruction. Also Omastar or Kabutops can set-up on Entei's ExtremeSpeed. BDrum Poliwrath can set up on Sucker Punchs.

~ Under OO, add Aqua Jet - it must be used over Swords Dance, since those two moves are incompatable (for shame D:)

~ Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Spikes also goes here. I guess you can mention Aqua Tail, too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll comment on more of the set entries here. Thanks, again, Silvershadow234 - this is a HUGE help!

PS: No Best Poster for last week, but I'm going to award this week's best poster to Phazon00, because his descriptions on Qwilfish is just perfect! Seriously, though, there should be more discussion about Rain - it's so good right now.

Here's a Discussion Point: How do you guys take on Cresselia with your Rain team?

PS2: Registering for Challenge 3 as Whirlpool

 

[Pocket]

I played with Swift Swim Carracosta, and I wasn't impressed at all. With the rain up, it starts with a pitiful 326 Speed and 346 Attack. Why am I not using Kabutops with 361 Attack and 518 Speed?! Carracosta NEEDS Shell Smash to be at the same level of destructiveness as +2 Kabutops. I guess a +2 Ice Beam to kill off Tangrowth is a perk it has over Kabutops, but that alone isn't worth it for me, imo. If I'm using a Shell Smasher, I am way better off with Omastar anyways ;0

So yea, playing with Carracosta was a rather disappointing experience for me; feel free to rebut, but atm I'm thinking of rejecting Carracosta.

Also how did any of your Rain teams fare against Hail teams? It hasn't been too bad for me, since Snover can only switch in so many times before dying (setting up Rocks help). Then I simply set up Rain and screw all over Hail sweepers! However, the opponents I faced weren't that great, so I'm not 100% certain that rain beats hail