Gallade - Blades of Fury

[Erazor]

Raikou used Substitute!
Raikou lost 25% of its HP!
Raikou made a Substitute!
Spiritomb used Trick!
But, it failed...
d2test: oh fuck

what exactly differentiates sd gallade from other powerful physical attackers like sd blaziken? basically the only thing i can see is that gallade has close combat > superpower. then again, what on a stall team can take out blaziken? if the argument is that stall teams have to play around gallade with checks, then doesn't the same thing apply to playing around blaziken's superpower? at least spiritomb has a guaranteed -50% HP with shadow sneak...

The thing is, after Blaziken uses Superpower, its follow-up Superpower isn't hitting very hard. Which means switch out, Spikes damage, SR, blah blah. Gallade can just keep using CC till Tomb comes out for the Shadow Sneak on the exposed defenses, while resisting SR.

 

[whistle]

In order for that to happen, you'd have to switch Tomb INTO Raikou in the first place, because if you're banded, you can't switch attacks once you're in.

Although it's not specifically FOR Hitmontop so much as things that try to set up on Tomb, like Raikou for instance.

I don't how you're tricking Raikou unless you just switched in. either way I just meant that part of my post as a not very serious and over the top "gotcha" that isn't really worth discussing, lol.

@ Gallade / Blaziken

I understand the difference between the two on paper. the thing is that I don't see either getting more than two or three kills ("only") against a well prepared team, which begs the question of "what is the difference in a battle". Gallade is taking a Shadow Sneak for 50% + 2x LO to kill Tomb which means it has at most three more shots assuming perfect setup and minimal entry hazards. on the other hand, I can't think of a single Pokemon on a stall team that can take a +2 hit from Blaziken (and it doesn't even need to Superpower against many things... just Omastar / Milotic if it doesn't run Thunderpunch).

even after Blaziken Superpowers something, it still has 77.5% HP and can pretty easily come in on quite a few stall Pokemon and get another SD later. "you take Spikes and SR damage" isn't relevant to a Blaziken / Gallade comparison because if you factor that in, Gallade is nearly almost always dead after it takes out Spiritomb.

the bottom line is that both Pokemon aren't killing an entire team unless your opponent is horribly unprepared (and who runs a stall team with just a Spiritomb as their Gallade counter...). so really, what's the difference?

also I thought I would point out that no one's explained why "it demolishes stall" is an adequate reason for banning a Pokemon =).

(and yes I'm playing the devil's advocate again =/)

 

[Heysup]

Firstly Blaziken can't set up as easily with so many weaknesses. That is the big big difference, but there is more. It is forced to use Superpower on Milotic and Omastar (ThunderPunch actually doesn't KO Omastar), meaning it needs to switch out. It is actually stopped cold by a defensive Blastoise or Slowbro.

The biggest difference is the ease of set up. Spiritomb is the only exception, and that isn't coming out unless Gallade is out in the first place.

 

[A.P.]

Blastoise checks Gallade as well, so don't see your point there.

It also holds off Raikou and Mismagius.

 

[Heysup]

Blastoise checks Gallade as well, so don't see your point there.

It also holds off Raikou and Mismagius.

Are we talking about the same Pokemon here?....

Blastoise can barely dent Gallade with Surf:

206 Atk vs 266 Def & 277 HP (95 Base Power): 79 - 94 (28.52% - 33.94%)

Not to mention, it isn't checking anything after taking a +2 CC:

766 Atk vs 328 Def & 362 HP (120 Base Power): 391 - 462 (108.01% - 127.62%)

And Raikou? Missy? Really? They both have Thunderbolt (Raikou's is substantially more threatening, but it will hurt nonetheless), and can set up Calm Minds on Blastoise.

If you are referring to Roar, it can't come in and do that because it will get hit way too hard. It can prevent their set up if they come in on Blastoise, but other than that it is doing nothing. Not a check for any of these Pokemon by any means.

Now do you see my point?

 

[Mrobinson587]

Blastoise checks Gallade as well, so don't see your point there.

Does it now?

Leaf Blade has easily been the best option to run in slot 3 for it's high base power (and high crit rate) good super effective and neutral coverage in UU.

I personally run Jolly with life orb

Max Def vs +2 Leaf Blade
98.34% - 116.02%

+0 Leaf Blade
49.72% - 58.56% 100 percent 2hko with SR

And in return
28.52% - 33.94% with surf
or lol Aqua Jet with Impish nature no attack ev.
18.77% - 22.74%


On a side note... I know it's outclassed overall by lucario BUT with a set of SD/CC/Leaf Blade/Night Slash... how would you theorymon it would do against OU Stall? We are saying it destroys UU stall. Most people counter/ lucario with Hippowdon. I don't play much OU these days and I don't know who the popular ones are in stall.


Adamanat Life Orb+2 Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Impish hippowdon
91.43% - 107.62%

+Close Combat vs 252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def Skarmory
96.41% - 114.07%

 

[Heysup]

Just on a side note: Leaf Blade doesn't hit harder than Close Combat on Rhyperior, Blastoise, or Milotic or really anything except for Slowbro.

2x Super Effective Leaf Blade = 180 Base Power
Neutral STAB Close Combat = 180 Base Power
4x Super Effective Leaf Blade = 360 Base Power
2x Super Effective STAB Close Combat = 360 Base Power

 

[Erazor]

I already said this earlier, but people seem to have ignored it completely:

Why are we only discussing SD Gallade? A TrickScarf/Band Gallade completely screws up its usual checks, as seen in my warstory with Lemmiwinks. This adds to the support characteristic big time, as apart from blowing those large holes into you team, it cripples key pokemon, which allow another one to sweep easily.

 

[LMK]

Just on a side note: Leaf Blade doesn't hit harder than Close Combat on Rhyperior, Blastoise, or Milotic or really anything except for Slowbro.

2x Super Effective Leaf Blade = 180 Base Power
Neutral STAB Close Combat = 180 Base Power
4x Super Effective Leaf Blade = 360 Base Power
2x Super Effective STAB Close Combat = 360 Base Power

This is true but Leaf Blade allows the user to avoid the defense drops of CC. I suppose one could say it doesn't matter when factoring in LO/SR damage although a Lum Berry Gallade should have an easier time staying out of priority revenge range.

Actually, was that something discussed? Use Leaf Blade on Lum Gallade so when bulky waters do try to status you on the CC you basically get the free turn to SD then kill them off with no defense drops? There has been so much discussion on Gallade I get the sets a little confused.

 

[Lee]

Why are we only discussing SD Gallade? A TrickScarf/Band Gallade completely screws up its usual checks, as seen in my warstory with Lemmiwinks.

I agree with you for the mostpart - I think a lot of people aren't using Gallade to his full potential. However I don't think the TrickBand variant is going to be a nail in his coffin because (arguably) Medicham can run that set better and he's way down in NU.

I think the main reason I've found Gallade to be quite manageable is that people aren't giving him the neccesary support - he doesn't have the speed (or powerful priority) to just use SD the first turn he appears and steamroll a team - he isn't the UU Lucario people seem to think he is.

 

[jppness]

Cant you just bring in Ak9 and get the Intimidate? Ak9 Knows Extreme Speed, and Im sure it can live a Shadow Sneak.

 

[TEA_DEMON]

I've been using an anti-lead Gallade lately, and it's quite effective.

Gallade @Choice Band
Steadfast | Adamant | 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Close Combat
~ Trick
~ Thunder Wave

Fun to use against Froslass leads, since non-bulky ones get 1 layer max (I've seen people Taunt me first turn a lot though lol) and bulky ones get 2 if they don't Taunt. Thunder Wave on a CB set might seem odd, but it has worked for me. Loses to Moltres leads and that's the most common one it loses to. Dunno if this set is original or not, but it's effective.

 

[LonelyNess]

I've been asked to post this by a number of people, so now that the deadline for UU essays is up, I can.

----------------------------------------------

When thinking to myself what tier I would place Gallade in I was faced with quite a few conundrums. However, after a good bit of internal debate, I have finally decided that if given the chance, I will be voting Gallade to the Borderline tier.

I will be doing so under the support clause.

For the purposes of this essay, I will be assuming only one set; the following:

Gallade (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

To briefly explain the EVs as well as the set, 68 Speed rests at 213, which is one more point than stall Milotic will run if it's attempting to outrun max speed Torterra (at 211). This gives Gallade the ability to outrun nearly every significant threat that it needs to** when against stall, and as its main objective is to break said stall, this is important. Attack is maxed, obviously, and the rest of the EVs are placed into HP. Why HP, you ask? Well, that will be discussed later.

Now, I believe this Pokemon to be the -premier- stall breaker in UU. I won't bore you with Calculations, but let's just say that in terms of facing stall, this monster is unmatched. It OHKOs the following stall staples after a single Swords Dance:

Altaria
Blastoise
Chansey
Clefable
Drapion
Milotic
Omastar
Registeel
Steelix
Umbreon

The following stall team Staples can all be 2HKOd after a single Swords Dance

Arcanine
Claydol
Donphan
Hitmontop
Mismagius
Rotom
Slowbro
Spiritomb
Venasaur

So that covers pretty much.... everything that would be on a Stall team... if you've seen something on a stall team other than the above 19 Pokemon, please tell me what it is.... but I digress.

You may be thinking to yourself "we already know all this, Gallade can 2HKO a lot of shit, but at least it can be dealt with"

Well see this is where the HP EVs, and the Lum Berry come in.

Most stall teams will employ the use of Status in order to stop Gallade's rampage. In fact, its most popular stall team checks, such as Arcanine / Slowbro / Mismagius / Rotom / Spiritomb, all use Status as their main way to deal with Gallade. When Lum Berry is thrown in their face, suddenly the Pokemon that could be burnt, or paralyzed, and then dealt with accordingly by other members of the team, can no longer be handled as such.

Other times, stall teams rely on Gallade's "frailty" to take it out. Namely in using Donphan's naturally strong Earthquake, or Spiritombs Super Effective Shadow Sneak, or even Arcanine's Flare Blitz. However, they're in for a surprise when they run into this Gallade that is pumped up with HP EVs. The following notes are significant to what is different about 188 HP Gallade versus 0 HP Gallade:


Spiritomb
----------------------------
188 HP Gallade taking a 140 Atk Spiritomb's Shadow Sneak

251 Atk vs 166 Def & 325 HP (40 Base Power): 132 - 156 (40.62% - 48.00%) --- Never a 2HKO

0 HP Gallade taking a 140 Atk Spiritomb's Shadow Sneak

251 Atk vs 166 Def & 277 HP (40 Base Power): 132 - 156 (47.65% - 56.32%) ---- 2HKO 73% of the time, 100% with LO
---------------------------------------

Stall Arcanine
------------------------------

Versus any 0 Atk versions of Arcanine, this gallade wins out by virtue of the Lum Berry, not the HP EVs, but against 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe Jolly versions, the bulkier Gallade has a significant advantage over the more frail version.

Most notably, the frailer version is OHKOd by Flareblitz

319 Atk vs 166 Def & 277 HP (120 Base Power): 247 - 292 (89.17% - 105.42%)

Which means that it will die before it even gets a chance to hit it with anything.

Quite to the contrary, the bulkier one takes it like a champ

319 Atk vs 166 Def & 325 HP (120 Base Power): 247 - 292 (76.00% - 89.85%)

And returns for the OHKO with a +1 Stone Edge (factoring in the recoil from your opponent's Flare Blitz)... which means if it Flare Blitz's, it loses, if it burns, it loses, basically, Arcanine, which was touted to be Gallade's best check on a stall team, fails at checking Gallade.
-----------------------------------


So now that we see that Gallade pretty much dominates every single staple stall Pokemon, as well as takes out every attempt at said stall to check it via conventional means, I come up to another argument that many people attempt to make.

"But, LonelyNess, other Pokemon like Blaziken can Swords Dance up and take 2HKO everything against a Stall team too! Why is Gallade Borderline but not Blaziken?"

This is true, Blaziken has the ability to 2HKO everything that would conventionally be seen on a Stall team after a single swords dance, it also can't be burned which is pretty significant. However, Gallade has a few things which Blaizken doesn't have, that affords it the ability to do things that Blaziken can't.

The first is its typing.

Blaziken's typing only affords it one thing when it comes up against a stall team, and that's a Burn immunity. Other than that, it's a complete detriment. It comes with a weakness to Ground / Water which means that it can't set up on the opponent's staple water type like Gallade can, which is crucial because setting up on Milotic / Blastoise is where Gallade gets most of its opportunities to sweep. Blaziken is relegated to setting up on the likes of Chansey and Spiritomb, which Gallade can do too (save for spiritomb).

As well, Gallade is both resistant to Fighting, and neutral to Ground, versus being Neutral to Fighting and weak to Ground. Now this doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you consider that one of either Hitmontop or Donphan is on a stall team more often than not, it becomes quite significant.

It's important because neither Gallade nor Blaziken can OHKO those two Pokemon, even after a Swords Dance, and even with a Life Orb. The difference however, is that Gallade still wins even though it can't OHKO.

Against Hitmontop, Gallade is resistant to its Close Combat, so it can just spam its own Close Combat without fear of retribution, even due to the Defense drop. Quite the opposite, after a Superpower and Life Orb damage, Hitmontop actually OHKOs Blaziken with Close Combat

226 Atk vs 117 Def & 301 HP (120 Base Power): 249 - 294 (82.72% - 97.67%)

In a similar vein, against Donphan, neither Pokemon can OHKO. But where Gallade can afford to Swords Dance again so that it can put Donphan into OHKO range (because a Donphan Earthquake does only 60% to Gallade), Blaziken is simply doomed to be OHKOd by Earthquake.

This is what seperates Gallade Swords Dance sweeping a Stall team from Blaziken sweeping a Stall team... in short, Gallade can -actually- sweep, where Blaziken just LOOKS like it could actually sweep.

-------------------------------------------

The final argument against Gallade for BL seems to be that of "But it's pretty useless against nonstall teams"

And to that I say fucking bullshit.

Gallade gets plenty of viable switchins verses a non-stall team, it can switch into Raikou and live, it can switch into Milotic and live, it can pretty much switch into most Special attackers and not get 2HKOd, so long as they don't carry a super effective attack. So it's not as though it's lacking viable switchins...

Yes, you would be correct in saying that I won't be getting a Swords Dance sweep anytime soon, because you can bring in a faster sweeper such as Swellow, who is immune to Shadow Sneak... but you'd be a fool to do so, because if I know I'm going up against something that -isn't- stall (which should be more than easy enough to judge by the time Gallade hits the floor), I'm just plain not going to try and Swords Dance. Instead Im' going to punch holes into your team with my incredibly powerful Close Combat / Stone Edge.

In short, what I'm trying to say is, yes Gallade isn't near the monster against offensive teams that it is against stall teams, but the gap in usefulness between the two is not so much that it's a detriment to use Gallade on your team because you might run into a Offense team.

For those of you who like a diagram

Gallade vs. Stall = Far too good, broken even
Gallade vs. Offense = Just kind of good

------------------------------------------------

For all of the reasons stated above, if given the opportunity, I will be voting BL for Gallade

 

[Mermaster]

My question to you all is this:
A life orb boosts a move by roughly 1.3 times, yet it causes the loss of life. Perhaps if sweeping, a Gallade no longer needs to care. But before the opportunity arrises, the loss of that life might break Gallade's ability to sweep before the time comes.

The point is this: I am not sure how much a muscle band increases it by, but the physical attacks are still increased, and there is no uncomfortable recoil. Would this not be a better choice for a good portion of the match?

 

[Yuggles]

My question to you all is this:
A life orb boosts a move by roughly 1.3 times, yet it causes the loss of life. Perhaps if sweeping, a Gallade no longer needs to care. But before the opportunity arrises, the loss of that life might break Gallade's ability to sweep before the time comes.

The point is this: I am not sure how much a muscle band increases it by, but the physical attacks are still increased, and there is no uncomfortable recoil. Would this not be a better choice for a good portion of the match?

Muscle band increases power by 1.1. So the tradeoff is, losing 10% of your HP to gain 20% attacking power. Seems worth it to me.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Uh so since this thread was bumped, what do people currently think of Gallade, since it seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I havent seen one in forever...

 

[FlareBlitz]

I dunno about anyone else, but the reason I'm not using Gallade is because I don't want want to base a team around something that'll probably get banned. If it doesn't get banned, then I'll be more than happy to use it, and especially happy to see Stall take a nosedive.

 

[Flamewheeler]

I dunno about anyone else, but the reason I'm not using Gallade is because I don't want want to base a team around something that'll probably get banned. If it doesn't get banned, then I'll be more than happy to use it, and especially happy to see Stall take a nosedive.

Amen! Gallade was kinda a let down actually. It's countered so hard in this metagame and even though it's as predictable as the other suspects, it's just too easy to deal with. If I ever write these paragraphs, Gallade will probably be the only one I vote UU, outside of maybe one other. Stall dying out is just a plus in my book. =D

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Uh so since this thread was bumped, what do people currently think of Gallade, since it seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I havent seen one in forever...

Yeah, I've only seen 1 Gallade recently. This doesn't mean it's not broken, but I'm surprised more people aren't using it.


The one Gallade that I did see got paralyzed by my Chansey on the switch-in and then beaten by Honchkrow's Brave Bird later on.

 

[L33t 1337]

Uh so since this thread was bumped, what do people currently think of Gallade, since it seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I havent seen one in forever...

I think it's like UUs answer to Lucario. However i don't like the SD version very much, i enjoy a bit more physical bulk and on top of that a Bulk up instead of SD. With hes 115 SpDf he can obviously take Spaciel hits nice but on the physical side it's worse. This is like the version i use:

Gallade @ Leftovers
Impish nature
EV: 128 HP 128 Df 252 Atk

Bulk up
Shadow sneak
Close combat
Thunder wave

This allows him to still hit like a nuke, be supportive and take hits.

 

[Nas]

I think it's like UUs answer to Lucario. However i don't like the SD version very much, i enjoy a bit more physical bulk and on top of that a Bulk up instead of SD. With hes 115 SpDf he can obviously take Spaciel hits nice but on the physical side it's worse. This is like the version i use:

Gallade @ Leftovers
Impish nature
EV: 128 HP 128 Df 252 Atk

Bulk up
Shadow sneak
Close combat
Thunder wave

This allows him to still hit like a nuke, be supportive and take hits.

I don't see the point of raising your defense just to have Close Combat drop it again, so I'd run Drain Punch instead. If you want to use Close Combat then stick with Swords Dance.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

It is also yet another example of someone who doesn't understand how to make an efficient EV spread. Try 128 HP / 176 Atk / 204 Def Adamant if going that route.