You only get one ability, not multiple.
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Metagame Frantic Fusions (New resources @ Post #387)
- Thread starter hidin
- Start date
I see, the original post made it seem like you got two. Ok thanks.
Been playing a lot over the last two days or so, been really enjoying it so far. In an effort to get this thread back on topic I'm gonna go over a few of my thoughts and share a few teams I've been using.
Yeah both of these are broken and need to go. You can expect action any day now.
Oh my god. I think I'm in love. When fused with Porygon-Z, Latios becomes ridiculously strong. Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind are all very good and Latios is certainly one of the most defining forces in the meta.
From a defining offensive presence to a defensive one, RegenVest Swampert is incredibly versatile and checks a ton of threats while maintaining a lot of momentum. Fused with Hydrapple (really good new regen fusion!) or Slowking, it has some really good bulk to back up its great typing. Access to Knock Off, a respectable Attack Stat, and STAB-boosted Earthquake means Swampert is anything but passive while walling a plethora of great mons.
Roaring Moon (fused with Lycanroc-Dusk) is just in a really solid position at the moment. A lot of Psychic-type attacks flying around and a very enviable speed tier means it has a lot of opportunities. Choice Band is a devastating wallbreaker and Choice Scarf is one of the meta's best revenge killers.
I've got mixed feelings about Gouging Fire. Great bulk and typing afford it a lot of opportunities to use Dragon Dance, and it can be quite restrictive to check in the builder. On the other hand, a lot of the best revenge killers are able to handle it without much difficulty, and it's quite slow when unboosted. We'll see how it plays out but as of now I think a ban is decently likely.
Another personal favorite, Skarm is just a very splashable wall with very valuable access to Spikes and Whirlwind, with such high bulk that it can take hits from even the most terrifying of wallbreakers. A defensive mon with access to Spikes and many chances to set them means it slots nicely on a lot of teams. Also has incredible synergy with Swampert.
Just wanting to help out some newer players, here's a small set compendium for some of the new Pokemon, as well as a few of the returning faces that are particularly noteworthy. Not including Iron Boulder and Iron Moth because their time with us is likely coming to a close.
https://pokepast.es/e59badeef0b3ac1f
TEAMS
Choice Band Roaring Moon Hazard Stack
Of the teams I've built, this is probably the best one. Band Roaring Moon is one of the absolute strongest and hardest to answer wallbreakers, and when it has Spikes support and a very effective defensive core to fall back upon, it's just pushed to the next level. Fluffy Skarmory, Regenerator Great Tusk, Flash Fire Gholdengo, and RegenVest Swampert can cover pretty much everything you need, while still making progress with Knock Off, entry hazards, and pivoting. Psychic Surge Azelf is an option over Latios, but I prefer Latios for a better defensive profile to switch into mons in an emergency, while overwhelming Steel- and Fairy-types in tandem with Roaring Moon.
Sneasel Offense
I miss Weavile but dear god was the ban necessary. Sneasel is really fun to use, clicking Beat Up and 2HKOing physically bulky mons is very funny to watch. Certainly isn't as meticulously crafted as my other teams (I built this at 2 AM to be fair) but still pretty solid and fun to play with.
Archaludon + Choice Specs Latios Balance
Regenerator Archaludon is a really interesting check to multiple threats, packing a powerful Draco Meteor and Stealth Rock for a lot of utility. Here it's the team's primary answer to Gouging Fire, Samurott-H, and the Ogerpons, while also acting as a check to a myriad of other threats. Specs Latios is such a strong breaker that it can completely dominate if given too many opportunities. Scarf Roaring Moon is the team's primary speed control with the remaining team members just rounding out the defensive core. RegenVest Excadrill was initially just a novelty, but as I've used it, it has certainly proven how capable it is. It bundles the utility of being a check to Latios and Raging Bolt with hazard removal via Rapid Spin to great effect, and Scorching Sands means it can threaten to burn Great Tusk, which would otherwise dominate it.
MGLO Gouging Fire Bulky Offense
Quite the standard team. Gouging Fire has a lot of defensive utility and can find many setup opportunities, at which point it can often tear open large holes in the opponent's team or just straight-up win. The rest of the team is self-explanatory and I don't think you want me to tell you what Latios, Swampert, and Skarmory do again.
Calm Mind Latios + Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Bulky Offense
I really like Latios, ok? CB Gapdos is another one of those "this is utterly unwallable" mons and Regenerator Samurott-H is a nifty scarfer with a lot of role compression. Flash Fire Gholdengo has some pretty good synergy with RegenVest Excadrill, both handling a lot of each other's vulnerabilities. The last slot can be pretty much anything that checks Great Tusk and Roaring Moon, I just chose Skarmory because it has access to Stealth Rock and Whirlwind is nice utility.
Yeah both of these are broken and need to go. You can expect action any day now.
Oh my god. I think I'm in love. When fused with Porygon-Z, Latios becomes ridiculously strong. Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind are all very good and Latios is certainly one of the most defining forces in the meta.
From a defining offensive presence to a defensive one, RegenVest Swampert is incredibly versatile and checks a ton of threats while maintaining a lot of momentum. Fused with Hydrapple (really good new regen fusion!) or Slowking, it has some really good bulk to back up its great typing. Access to Knock Off, a respectable Attack Stat, and STAB-boosted Earthquake means Swampert is anything but passive while walling a plethora of great mons.
Roaring Moon (fused with Lycanroc-Dusk) is just in a really solid position at the moment. A lot of Psychic-type attacks flying around and a very enviable speed tier means it has a lot of opportunities. Choice Band is a devastating wallbreaker and Choice Scarf is one of the meta's best revenge killers.
I've got mixed feelings about Gouging Fire. Great bulk and typing afford it a lot of opportunities to use Dragon Dance, and it can be quite restrictive to check in the builder. On the other hand, a lot of the best revenge killers are able to handle it without much difficulty, and it's quite slow when unboosted. We'll see how it plays out but as of now I think a ban is decently likely.
Another personal favorite, Skarm is just a very splashable wall with very valuable access to Spikes and Whirlwind, with such high bulk that it can take hits from even the most terrifying of wallbreakers. A defensive mon with access to Spikes and many chances to set them means it slots nicely on a lot of teams. Also has incredible synergy with Swampert.
Just wanting to help out some newer players, here's a small set compendium for some of the new Pokemon, as well as a few of the returning faces that are particularly noteworthy. Not including Iron Boulder and Iron Moth because their time with us is likely coming to a close.
https://pokepast.es/e59badeef0b3ac1f
TEAMS
Choice Band Roaring Moon Hazard Stack
Of the teams I've built, this is probably the best one. Band Roaring Moon is one of the absolute strongest and hardest to answer wallbreakers, and when it has Spikes support and a very effective defensive core to fall back upon, it's just pushed to the next level. Fluffy Skarmory, Regenerator Great Tusk, Flash Fire Gholdengo, and RegenVest Swampert can cover pretty much everything you need, while still making progress with Knock Off, entry hazards, and pivoting. Psychic Surge Azelf is an option over Latios, but I prefer Latios for a better defensive profile to switch into mons in an emergency, while overwhelming Steel- and Fairy-types in tandem with Roaring Moon.
Sneasel Offense
I miss Weavile but dear god was the ban necessary. Sneasel is really fun to use, clicking Beat Up and 2HKOing physically bulky mons is very funny to watch. Certainly isn't as meticulously crafted as my other teams (I built this at 2 AM to be fair) but still pretty solid and fun to play with.
Archaludon + Choice Specs Latios Balance
Regenerator Archaludon is a really interesting check to multiple threats, packing a powerful Draco Meteor and Stealth Rock for a lot of utility. Here it's the team's primary answer to Gouging Fire, Samurott-H, and the Ogerpons, while also acting as a check to a myriad of other threats. Specs Latios is such a strong breaker that it can completely dominate if given too many opportunities. Scarf Roaring Moon is the team's primary speed control with the remaining team members just rounding out the defensive core. RegenVest Excadrill was initially just a novelty, but as I've used it, it has certainly proven how capable it is. It bundles the utility of being a check to Latios and Raging Bolt with hazard removal via Rapid Spin to great effect, and Scorching Sands means it can threaten to burn Great Tusk, which would otherwise dominate it.
MGLO Gouging Fire Bulky Offense
Quite the standard team. Gouging Fire has a lot of defensive utility and can find many setup opportunities, at which point it can often tear open large holes in the opponent's team or just straight-up win. The rest of the team is self-explanatory and I don't think you want me to tell you what Latios, Swampert, and Skarmory do again.
Calm Mind Latios + Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Bulky Offense
I really like Latios, ok? CB Gapdos is another one of those "this is utterly unwallable" mons and Regenerator Samurott-H is a nifty scarfer with a lot of role compression. Flash Fire Gholdengo has some pretty good synergy with RegenVest Excadrill, both handling a lot of each other's vulnerabilities. The last slot can be pretty much anything that checks Great Tusk and Roaring Moon, I just chose Skarmory because it has access to Stealth Rock and Whirlwind is nice utility.
LOL
Dragapult banned, Unburden banned, Comfey (Triage) banned, Sneasler banned... All offensive mons banned and in the meanwhile, stall teams with Chansey and Skarmory with 3 regen and 3 unaware mons are on turning it into a boring, brainless game... This could be the best OM, but the stall boys deciding bans decided not to...
Single ability clause is a must for this OM to be considered serious, otherwise it will keep being a non-strategic one... Only banning offensive mons and leaving teams with 3 regen/3 unaware are surely not the way to go, we don't mind buzzkiller stall-boys because they are beatable, but it has to have counters, otherwise it will be only a single strategy game (multi-regen + multi-unaware)
The other serious OMs all have single ability clause, except this one... I don't know what the mods have in their heads
Dragapult banned, Unburden banned, Comfey (Triage) banned, Sneasler banned... All offensive mons banned and in the meanwhile, stall teams with Chansey and Skarmory with 3 regen and 3 unaware mons are on turning it into a boring, brainless game... This could be the best OM, but the stall boys deciding bans decided not to...
Single ability clause is a must for this OM to be considered serious, otherwise it will keep being a non-strategic one... Only banning offensive mons and leaving teams with 3 regen/3 unaware are surely not the way to go, we don't mind buzzkiller stall-boys because they are beatable, but it has to have counters, otherwise it will be only a single strategy game (multi-regen + multi-unaware)
The other serious OMs all have single ability clause, except this one... I don't know what the mods have in their heads
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Raging Bolt x Porygon Z is an incredible wall breaker. It is similar to Latios as posted above but has less variety in exchange for greater bulk, marginally better SpAtk, and access to priority. Also, I think the current meta benefits it as steel types are much more likely to run fire immunity via Dachsbun or Heatran than Volt Absorb. All in all a high-risk high-reward pokemon.
Roaring Moon and Iron Boulder are the two most problematic mons, but the lack of ability clause is more likely to cause problems in the long run. I think the meta is fun but Chansey/Corv with regenerator spam is really difficult to make progress against. Stall isn't popular in an OM like this usually but I feel it is a bit too strong right now.
Roaring Moon and Iron Boulder are the two most problematic mons, but the lack of ability clause is more likely to cause problems in the long run. I think the meta is fun but Chansey/Corv with regenerator spam is really difficult to make progress against. Stall isn't popular in an OM like this usually but I feel it is a bit too strong right now.
tough claws close combat, chansey and corv sounds like an absolutely awful core, they both need a lot of support or need abilities like fluffy or something and lose out on regen. corv is not a very good progress stopper and personally only use it for intim pivoting and defog
I don't agree with this I think they are fine, though every team I make has either levitate ghold, unaware curse hippowdon, or just both. super counter set to iron boulder. roaring moon is pretty tame, I find it easy to stop.
:clueless:, iron moth was unbanned, theres an offensive mon that was unbanned. you do realize FF did have omtom before this and was HO hell before. I don't agree with SAC at all, I personally love the flexibility of regen cores. I do think 2ac is necessary though, it allows for flexibility (regenvester and defensive regen) which I really like, but still puts a cap. I've been limiting myself to 2ac, I've used 3 regen and know just how cheesy it can get. I'm an aaa player so I've experienced the 2 worlds, SAC and NAC, gotta say I like the higher cap (theres none for now) more. also you severely upplay the power of 3 regen 3 unaware, you're just making bad breakers if you can't beat a team of that. or your team is too HO leaning (and lacking longevity) which those kinds of teams are designed meticulously to beat.
I don't mean anything negative when I compare FF to AAA, but this meta is very similar and in aaa it is the balance borderlands, balance is everywhere. I suggest you build more bulky if you want to beat stall.
I guess I wasn't being clear, it's not necessary to run regenerator on either of those pokes, just regenerator support with those two seems to be popular on stall.
Lots of good points, thanks for your insight. I think 2ac is manageable. With 3 Regen you can get a blanket special wall and two complementary phys walls which is really frustrating.
I'll check those Roaring Moon answers, just spent a lot of time trying to make Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire as a theme and it's probably clouding my experience.
INB4 "gapdos 1v6s stall"
don't try talking about this on the main page, you will get insta banned from the OM chat lobby
also regen spam (was at one point?) is a blacklisted topic, so don't be suprised if you get warned (i'll likely get banned for sticking my neck out, best of luck across the forums here mate)
I didn't say any, but if you want roaring moon answers, cobalion/dark dragon resist with regen and high defense with levitate/flying support is good or any that you find that have those traits and don't need regen, like they have roost or something. I would recommend enamorus-therian, but it has no pivoting which is quite important for regen and its weak to potential iron heads (as well as weak to rocks, important for my next suggestion). keep in mind eq coverage doesn't work with tough claws or adapt on roaring moon, but iron head works with TC.
dark resists with regen are very good at soaking up knocks, just make sure they have traits that don't necessitate their item slot. so I recommend them for defensive teams/balance that really like their items.
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it is perfectly fine to talk about regen, but stay constructive on the topic. It's not that hard. don't go on ranting with points like "oh the council loves stall" "ff isn't a 'serious' om like aaa so it doesn't have sac" lol? if you have such strong feelings about regenerator why not make a post explaining why you think so? going on and on about "it's a stall metagame" and attacking the council without elaborating further is frankly idiotic. if you want regen banned make posts with actual points and replays supporting your point of view. to put it bluntly, sorry if i sound abrasive but I'm kinda fed up with this, don't post nonsense and replays against PikachuLoverAsh1837284 in 1100s with you spamming ivysaur but against actual players. and real points that relate to the metagame. It's interesting to see in this (currently) hazard/offense-heavy metagame with things like boulder moth moon zap ghold gfire debris etc etc free people are still saying this meta is stall-based. once / if boulder / moth are banned i can somewhat see regen cores being annoying again but def don't agree with them being unbeatable. and keep in mind, this isn't aaa. along with abilities, ff also boosts mons' power
I'm kind of sick seeing this sentiment, so I will make a post that summarise my thoughts on this.
Why do people think the council is some kind of political cabal intent on spreading stall? I thought this was honestly only a joke but the fact people actually seriously seem to think this is crazy. Are councils perfect? No, but the people in a council also play this meta and want to make it fun as well. They can be mistaken, lazy, a bit biased or even perhaps ignorant at times, but I have not seen a time where the council purposely set out to ruin a tier and make it dominated by a single archetype. Because, why in the world would they? Do you think there's some secretly funded organisation behind the scenes trying to make sure stall is the single prominent archetype in a tier, is someone bribing them or are they gaining financial wealth from this? This is not infinitely complex world-consequential issue, this is an obscure metagame for a videogame. It could be people are laughing at you because you make some extreme accusations while providing no serious proof or analysis.
Also, please don't compare this to "other OMs". They are different metagames and what they do has no bearing on what Frantic Fusion the meta requires. If you really want to compare this to an OM, AAA being the most similar, 1 Ability Clause is not because we need it to stop stall from being oppressive. Frankly it was just done as an experiment with FurScales and also solving the consistency of Ability Clause (compared to 2AC which is somewhat arbitary). Stall appreciates more flexibility with their Regen slots, sure, but honestly it isn't even affected that much by Regen and there are ubiquitous amount of other defensive tools it can run that can be arguably even more important. 1AC isn't even some holy thing we've come to appreciate, many people have voiced their dissatisfaction over it and wish for increased AC. There have been various calls to even just straight up free NAC and even oldgens AAA have 2AC and find themselves fairly fine and not ultra Stall dominated. The difference between 2AC and NAC is fairly negligible and I've never seen anyone find 2AC fine but have disdain for NAC as Regen is not some perfect defensive ability. Also if you want to compare it to AAA further, Unburden and Triage shouldn't even have much bearing on the viability of Stall? You talk as they already run 3 Unaware even without these abilities in the meta, I don't see how freeing them would change much of anything if Stall really is dominant in this tier.
Offensive mons are generally banned more frequently than defensive options, sure but let me just use a quote from a similar complaint I've seen before.
Maybe, these bans really are unjust. Maybe, these bans have actually contributed to the rise of a stall-dominated meta while other archetypes fall to the wayside. Maybe, this tier really does need restricted Regen. I do not know, because I do not actually play Frantic Fusions. But you've failed to provide any proof or substantial argument but "look, offensive mons have been banned! the meta must being dominated by stall!" but no that's really not how that works in general. If GF suddenly dropped a Caly-S esque mon in the game and the council banned it are you going to complain they're conspiring to make the meta worse and have stall be dominant.
We are not "oppressing" you for having an opinion. Council members for the most part do want to make a meta better and if anything appreciate constructive criticism to see what is wrong, because this isn't Congress and they are voting on a silly videogame meta not whether Big Oil™" will continue to fuck over our planet in exchange for short term profits and are not getting bribed to make Stall better or looking out for their chances next re-election. What we are is annoyed by your obnoxious constant whining that is backed up by no substantial evidence or analysis in the majority of the case that derails any actual constructive discussion as you plug your ears as players do respond with an argument that actually some thought put into it and continue to complain. You do not need to be some big-time tour or ladder player to have people listen to your opinion. You do not need to have an opinion that perfectly aligns with the majority of council to have an opinion respected or heard, hell the majority of the time the council isn't even unified on the majority of topics. What you do need is some thought put into your arguments and climb out of your echo chamber. I was a nobody when I first played AAA but I still put out opinions on controversial mons and had constructive arguments. Various people have engaged in discussion even against the grate of many respected players and council and been respected, see Siamatos great posts on the AAA meta.
I'm not going say this is a perfect wonderland platform and nothing unjust has ever happened here.. But really, this you're talking about some changes to a random niche metagame on a platform for how to beat up someones pixels the best way possible. You are not the martyr that will save this meta and are being oppressed by the unjust Council unfairly as they block out any constructive criticism. If anyone is blocking out constructive criticism, I'd really wager it would be you.
Why do people think the council is some kind of political cabal intent on spreading stall? I thought this was honestly only a joke but the fact people actually seriously seem to think this is crazy. Are councils perfect? No, but the people in a council also play this meta and want to make it fun as well. They can be mistaken, lazy, a bit biased or even perhaps ignorant at times, but I have not seen a time where the council purposely set out to ruin a tier and make it dominated by a single archetype. Because, why in the world would they? Do you think there's some secretly funded organisation behind the scenes trying to make sure stall is the single prominent archetype in a tier, is someone bribing them or are they gaining financial wealth from this? This is not infinitely complex world-consequential issue, this is an obscure metagame for a videogame. It could be people are laughing at you because you make some extreme accusations while providing no serious proof or analysis.
Also, please don't compare this to "other OMs". They are different metagames and what they do has no bearing on what Frantic Fusion the meta requires. If you really want to compare this to an OM, AAA being the most similar, 1 Ability Clause is not because we need it to stop stall from being oppressive. Frankly it was just done as an experiment with FurScales and also solving the consistency of Ability Clause (compared to 2AC which is somewhat arbitary). Stall appreciates more flexibility with their Regen slots, sure, but honestly it isn't even affected that much by Regen and there are ubiquitous amount of other defensive tools it can run that can be arguably even more important. 1AC isn't even some holy thing we've come to appreciate, many people have voiced their dissatisfaction over it and wish for increased AC. There have been various calls to even just straight up free NAC and even oldgens AAA have 2AC and find themselves fairly fine and not ultra Stall dominated. The difference between 2AC and NAC is fairly negligible and I've never seen anyone find 2AC fine but have disdain for NAC as Regen is not some perfect defensive ability. Also if you want to compare it to AAA further, Unburden and Triage shouldn't even have much bearing on the viability of Stall? You talk as they already run 3 Unaware even without these abilities in the meta, I don't see how freeing them would change much of anything if Stall really is dominant in this tier.
Offensive mons are generally banned more frequently than defensive options, sure but let me just use a quote from a similar complaint I've seen before.
Maybe, these bans really are unjust. Maybe, these bans have actually contributed to the rise of a stall-dominated meta while other archetypes fall to the wayside. Maybe, this tier really does need restricted Regen. I do not know, because I do not actually play Frantic Fusions. But you've failed to provide any proof or substantial argument but "look, offensive mons have been banned! the meta must being dominated by stall!" but no that's really not how that works in general. If GF suddenly dropped a Caly-S esque mon in the game and the council banned it are you going to complain they're conspiring to make the meta worse and have stall be dominant.
We are not "oppressing" you for having an opinion. Council members for the most part do want to make a meta better and if anything appreciate constructive criticism to see what is wrong, because this isn't Congress and they are voting on a silly videogame meta not whether Big Oil™" will continue to fuck over our planet in exchange for short term profits and are not getting bribed to make Stall better or looking out for their chances next re-election. What we are is annoyed by your obnoxious constant whining that is backed up by no substantial evidence or analysis in the majority of the case that derails any actual constructive discussion as you plug your ears as players do respond with an argument that actually some thought put into it and continue to complain. You do not need to be some big-time tour or ladder player to have people listen to your opinion. You do not need to have an opinion that perfectly aligns with the majority of council to have an opinion respected or heard, hell the majority of the time the council isn't even unified on the majority of topics. What you do need is some thought put into your arguments and climb out of your echo chamber. I was a nobody when I first played AAA but I still put out opinions on controversial mons and had constructive arguments. Various people have engaged in discussion even against the grate of many respected players and council and been respected, see Siamatos great posts on the AAA meta.
I'm not going say this is a perfect wonderland platform and nothing unjust has ever happened here.. But really, this you're talking about some changes to a random niche metagame on a platform for how to beat up someones pixels the best way possible. You are not the martyr that will save this meta and are being oppressed by the unjust Council unfairly as they block out any constructive criticism. If anyone is blocking out constructive criticism, I'd really wager it would be you.
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Ahem, it is I, boingk! And I am here to talk about the team I threw together in 5 minutes and is most likely terrible but I have nothing else to do so I'm going to make a post anyway
This thing is a freak of nature! Chansey inherits insane defensive stats thanks to Deoxys Defense, further bolstered by the
Eviolite item, and Pressure turns this blob from an annoying bastard you can't status into an annoying bastard you have to kill quickly. I think Chansey could definitely be good outside of stall as a general wall, pivot and utility Pokemon. The only real things Chansey struggles with are Knock and taking hazards, which is not really built around here lol, but if you wanted to smack this on a balance team Knock absorbers and Magic Bouncers are appreciated. Or you could give Chansey a Magic Guard donation from 
and watch the world burn 
I gave big really hard-to-break sodder Regenerator and some attack donation to function as a not-so-passive wall/setup sweeper. In reality this set is terrible because Dozo gets no utility outside of Yawn (it is banned by sleep clause...)
You get to switch into most special attackers and throw spikes down and vomit Toxic's. The team's special setup sweeper answer, unless the setup sweeper in question is Stored Power (in which case hard into Roaring Mid)
The team's Magic Bouncer helps keep hazards off and keep annoying status moves away. Bulk Up enables it to take on physical setup sweepers and reduce its passivity.
The team's spin blocker (and also the team's defog blocker). This thing is REALLY physically bulky and a Dengo donation increases its special attack considerably. Toxic and Malignant Chain is throwing however, if you use this team you could swap one of them out for Parting Shot. This is another mon that could be really good outside of this terribly built stall team, you could give it Levitate from
etc to improve its matchup into spinners that have ground stab 
, but here I think it's funnier to stop all status
Roaring Moon dons a regenvest and outspeeds most of the metagame, while doing respectable damage. Roaring Moon can switch in on many common special attacks and threaten them out, taking advantage of the hazards its team has laid down and also giving the other teammates a chance to breathe.
Final comments: don't use this team. It is terrible! However definitely have merit I feel, both in dedicated stall structures and more balanced playstyles
This thing is a freak of nature! Chansey inherits insane defensive stats thanks to Deoxys Defense, further bolstered by the
Eviolite item, and Pressure turns this blob from an annoying bastard you can't status into an annoying bastard you have to kill quickly. I think Chansey could definitely be good outside of stall as a general wall, pivot and utility Pokemon. The only real things Chansey struggles with are Knock and taking hazards, which is not really built around here lol, but if you wanted to smack this on a balance team Knock absorbers and Magic Bouncers are appreciated. Or you could give Chansey a Magic Guard donation from and watch the world burn I gave big really hard-to-break sodder Regenerator and some attack donation to function as a not-so-passive wall/setup sweeper. In reality this set is terrible because Dozo gets no utility outside of Yawn (it is banned by sleep clause...)
You get to switch into most special attackers and throw spikes down and vomit Toxic's. The team's special setup sweeper answer, unless the setup sweeper in question is Stored Power (in which case hard into Roaring Mid)
The team's Magic Bouncer helps keep hazards off and keep annoying status moves away. Bulk Up enables it to take on physical setup sweepers and reduce its passivity.
The team's spin blocker (and also the team's defog blocker). This thing is REALLY physically bulky and a Dengo donation increases its special attack considerably. Toxic and Malignant Chain is throwing however, if you use this team you could swap one of them out for Parting Shot. This is another mon that could be really good outside of this terribly built stall team, you could give it Levitate from
etc to improve its matchup into spinners that have ground stab , but here I think it's funnier to stop all statusRoaring Moon dons a regenvest and outspeeds most of the metagame, while doing respectable damage. Roaring Moon can switch in on many common special attacks and threaten them out, taking advantage of the hazards its team has laid down and also giving the other teammates a chance to breathe.
Final comments: don't use this team. It is terrible! However
definitely have merit I feel, both in dedicated stall structures and more balanced playstylesLets talk about a real broken ability, not regen, not unaware, GOOD AS GOLD. This ability is possibly the most uncompetitive to be made and the AUDACITY to unban it is beyond comprehension. Let me make this clear I do not want Gholdengo banned, but rather gag. Gholdengo has proven itself to be rather balanced in metas where it can't use gag. I do understand if its banned though (still disagree with tiering policy).
This ability alone is so overly centralizing on the hazard removal metagame. It completely forces you to run scrappy Tusk, mold breaker defog (this one I heavily don't recommend you use), or court change Cinderace.
sidenote for building Cinderace:
I have maybe seen Cinderace once or twice, the best sets for it are definitely regen+boots or magic guard, I recommend the former for balance to stall and mglo/mgleftovers for offense..
But thats it, it leads to a lot of 50/50s "will this person switch to their gag, will they not". Theres not much in favor of keeping this ability around, the same hazard removers were around in the first round of FF, and they are still around and still are the best. Get rid of this cancer of an ability.
This ability alone is so overly centralizing on the hazard removal metagame. It completely forces you to run scrappy Tusk, mold breaker defog (this one I heavily don't recommend you use), or court change Cinderace.
sidenote for building Cinderace:
I have maybe seen Cinderace once or twice, the best sets for it are definitely regen+boots or magic guard, I recommend the former for balance to stall and mglo/mgleftovers for offense..
But thats it, it leads to a lot of 50/50s "will this person switch to their gag, will they not". Theres not much in favor of keeping this ability around, the same hazard removers were around in the first round of FF, and they are still around and still are the best. Get rid of this cancer of an ability.
I've a couple of sets that would appreciate your reviews:
+ 
Slowking-Galar (Jirachi) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Doom Desire
- Psychic Noise
- Icy Wind
(100/120/127)
Isn't this the perfect + 
check?
I'm also thinking about checking + 
+ 
Scrafty (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Bulk Up
- Roost
Scrafty gives interesting defense boosts as well (133/113) + intimidate. Bulk Up with Body Press/Brave Bird makes Corviknight less passive.
+ Slowking-Galar (Jirachi) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Doom Desire
- Psychic Noise
- Icy Wind
(100/120/127)
Isn't this the perfect
+ check?I'm also thinking about checking
+ + Scrafty (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Bulk Up
- Roost
Scrafty gives interesting defense boosts as well (133/113) + intimidate. Bulk Up with Body Press/Brave Bird makes Corviknight less passive.
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toxapex is banned as a donor and receiverI've a couple of sets that would appreciate your reviews:
Toxapex (Jirachi) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Doom Desire
- Psychic Noise
- Icy Wind
Isn't this the perfect
Its defenses are 138/135. It basically works like AV G-Slowking.
I'm also thinking about checking
Scrafty (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Bulk Up
- Roost
Scrafty gives interesting defense boosts as well (133/113) + intimidate. Bulk Up with Body Press/Brave Bird makes Corviknight less passive.
I'm going to be pretty blunt, if we could just ban Good as Gold, it probably would have happened already. But we can't, because it's tied to Gholdengo, and Gholdengo brings a lot of valuable, positive things to the metagame. A splashable defensive Steel-type with a lot of set versatility that helps keep things like Latios in line is a very good thing to have. Gholdengo was unbanned because it's just a wonderful presence for the meta. The thing is that if you're entirely reliant on Defog to beat hazard stack, you're losing anyway. 24 Defog PP against the combined 64 PP of Spikes and Stealth Rocks is bound to end poorly. It sounds like your team is just weak to hazard stack in general, and that's an issue when our hazard setters are so omnipresent and good. There are ways to make your team resilient to hazards, you just need to utilize them. Good as Gold does not make hazards broken, they just are.
On a side note, the amount of ad hominem I've seen thrown at the council is frankly hilarious. If you actually want to actually get something changed, maybe don't insult the people in charge?
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Sorry about that but I am actually baffled on how council came to the conclusion to unban Gholdengo and was really heated to see gag back. Its extremely unfun to play against since I prefer defog over rapid spin. Though why can't council just change how you guys handle broken abilities, banning the ability over the pokemon?
The ad hominems won't end if you keep saying such ridiculous statements like this. Defog has always been a top tier hazard removing tool since it gained that functionality, and really weakened hazard's strength. There is a reason when gen 9 released, gholdengo feels almost necessary on hazard stack teams. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-2051008805 Here is a replay against a hazard stack team, the moment I knocked out their Corviknight with gag they immediately realized their whole gameplan was ruined, and forfeited subsequently. Their entire team's strength relies on this fact; stopping defog with Corviknight, and using Pecharunt for non scrappy rapid spins. Without the Corviknight's ability, their teams gameplan is greatly weakened and their team would probably be different because of it.
You are entirely correct about hazards being broken, but to say gag does not make them more, is utterly ridiculous.
If you really want Gholdengo around for its moveset and typing, which I completely understand and have already used it because of that. its superglue. Please do consider talking to whoever is in charge of your OM's policy (or if its you, the council) to allow the banning of abilities over pokemon.
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It's hard to take "Regen spam is weak, you have to diversify with Unaware/Fluffy/insert non-Regen otherwise you lose to all the breakers" seriously when most of the successful teams being posted have at least two Regen mons. TaxFraud's big team dump a few days ago had two Regens on every single team except for the one that had three. It's clearly the strongest defensive Ability in the metagame right now. There's so many more strong offensive presences and other ways around defensive boosts besides "Regain HP by endlessly clicking switch" that breakers have no issue muscling through Unaware or Fluffy but crumble when they're on a timer and the Regen doesn't need to expend any PP or finite resource that every other Pokemon in the game must do in order to make progress.
And if hazards ARE broken then they need immediate tiering action, not "Use more HDB/Levitate/Regen/Magic Guard".
And if hazards ARE broken then they need immediate tiering action, not "Use more HDB/Levitate/Regen/Magic Guard".
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Regen is very good at making pokemon with good traits but no recovery viable. That is why regen is so prevalent, so many pokemon adore the addition. Great Tusk, Goodra-H, my team's Muk and Raging Bolt. It really helps out defensive cores and its honestly glue. Physically offensive threats would be extremely powerful without NAC, as regen (like in AAA) would be prioritized for specially defensive pokemon as theres not many viable abilities that can scale with many specially offensive combos as regenvest can. If anything regen is actually helping the meta become less stally, by combining traits into one pokemon, allowing for more teambuilding opportunities. Doesn't mean its not a powerful ability and doesn't help stall, it does both of those. Also this meta isn't very stally, I've fought maybe a few stall teams and the only good ones are the hazard stack ones (GOOD AS GOLD....), its a very balance heavy meta, those teams are typically very strong.
Also on hazards being broken, they are strong but with gag around they are on the spot for being broken, defog is such a strong hazard removing tool so it being nullified makes them broken.
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If physically overpowering threats start popping up then tiering policy (for standard metas and OMs) says that we ban those as well, not keep centralizing presences in the tier. Props to teambuilders the first few days this month, I've been watching a lot of games looking for ideas and there haven't been any 5 Regen 1 Unaware stall teams like FF's time as OM last year. A truly depressing number of 2+ Regen teams, but nothing like that ladder-peaking team. I'm not calling for a full Regen ban at all, I agree with you that it helps make glue mons function and gives a lot of them the opportunity to function when they never could before.
As for hazards, that was more directly addressing
As for hazards, that was more directly addressing
Those two sentences back-to-back. Are hazards broken or are the countermethods against them sufficient? Which is it? I get we're three days into a metagame with unrestricted access to Good as Gold (though Gholdengo is still the best abuser thanks to being immune to Rapid Spin and Mortal Spin. Seriously GameFreak, who the fuck designed this Pokemon? I just wanna talk) and we're still finding how recent bans and unbans are affecting the balance of the game, but that's a very strong statement from a council member and I guess I'd like to hear how a broken element in the tier is being addressed.
I think is less of a "Regen is so broken, everyone run 2-3 on every team" and more of a "there are so many borderline broken threats in the tier that you need 2-3 regen mons on every team to keep up with all the different game ending monsters", there is a problem of broken checks broken, but is not easy to tell what really is broken as it often it does have answers, but you can't slap answers to everything on every team, something has to be done to reduce the overall powerlevel of the tier, maybe slowly take away offensive and then defensive threats until the community is at peace with it.
TL;DR Scroll down for bans.
I've had some time to play the tier and it's time for my standard metagame post after some weird arguments about Regenerator stuff. This won't just be a metagame post however, some other bans are going to be announced in this post too. But if you don't want to read what I have to say, you can scroll down to the bottom.
This one is at the top of my hitlist. The power of sets like Basculegion-F, Braviary-H, Clefable, and even some stuff like Gholdengo as a fusion is just obnoxious to deal with. While it does offer some good traits like checking Fairy-types, it has a literal ounce of skill expression since it's not too hard to just get the ball rolling with it. It was very obnoxious, and I'm happy that it's gone from the meta again.
While this was also something I don't like it felt less egregious than Iron Moth, since actual counterplay like Fluffy Corviknight or Skarmory and fat Unaware defensive fusions exist and do well into it. Swords Dance sets are the bane of any teams existence in the mid or late game though, its too easy to set up and clean with it and it doesn't help that it hits like a truck too. Honestly it could've been banned initially with the Keldeo and Volcarona slate, but I think just a few days with it didn't hurt much. Good thing it's gone too though, since we actually gauged how it functions.
I think both of these Pokemon are perfectly fine and have existing counterplay, and even have some flaws as well; Gouging sometimes can be pretty dull into teams with Alomomola, Great Tusk, and Unaware fusions and sometimes won't live up to what its bulk shows, and Gholdengo has always had problems with strong offensive Pokemon that are faster than it and common techs to beat it, both of which are quite abundant. I do think Good as Gold can be annoying on fusions with Sinistcha, but usually it's something that catches you off guard and not something that's just overbearing.
Now with some statements about common topics out of the way, I'll talk about things I personally like to use:
Lokix (Ogerpon-Wellspring) (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip
- Encore
I wanted this thing banned since DLC1 and honestly I'm shocked that it's still legal, this is on the same level of Iron Boulder for me when it comes to strong Swords Dance users. Tinted Lens and a decent Attack boost turns this into a trading and commonly game winning machine, nothing can come into this safely barring Unaware users that can still be fished for critical hits. You can try to prep for it but I guarantee you it will still give you trouble in some way, it's just that strong.
Cinderace (Dragonite) @ Choice Band
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Thunder Punch
So this is just your standard revenge killer but actually jacked, this thing has saved me in so much games it's crazy. It's a very good safety blanket into offensive stuff and when it comes to balance I'd say it's slightly annoying but nothing too absurd. Good Pokemon!
Pincurchin (Raging Bolt) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rising Voltage
- Thunderclap
- Dragon Pulse
Ok I just want to get into the bans, so pretty much this is like a mini Miraidon and hits like an absolute truck. The speed outspeeds something around the base 75-80 base Speed benchmark but I forgot where.
Also here are some teams I used to hit Top 3 on Frantic Fusions ladder, all of which can function after the banning of the Pokemon below:
- Ignore the four Dragon-types here but this is just standard Gouging Fire stuff. You won't do bad into Fairy-types with this team however be wary against stuff like Latios.
- What if Maushold was strong?
- The team I used the most on ladder, Lokix + Ogerpon and Porygon-Z + Latios is an insane offensive core that will often cause your opponents headaches, and Dragonite in the back as well doesn't help.
- Didn't use this much but it's probably okay, Wise Glasses is just there because I don't think there's any harm with using it over Leftovers.
- As much as I hate Life Orb it's used a lot here, Iron Leaves is like a mini Boulder with Sharpness that hits a little harder with Psychic STAB. You can make Night Slash into Leaf Blade if you want to.
With all of that out the way, here's what you probably want the most out of this message:
Iron Boulder and Iron Moth are banned from Frantic Fusions!
I've elaborated above about the Pokemon on the slate and I'm sure you can find other posts talking about them too, they were both very unhealthy presences that had to go in order to actually have some progression in this metagame.
And by the way, a set compendium (and a personal VR of mine) are on the way to be used as resources for you all! Stay tuned for that.
I've had some time to play the tier and it's time for my standard metagame post after some weird arguments about Regenerator stuff. This won't just be a metagame post however, some other bans are going to be announced in this post too. But if you don't want to read what I have to say, you can scroll down to the bottom.
This one is at the top of my hitlist. The power of sets like Basculegion-F, Braviary-H, Clefable, and even some stuff like Gholdengo as a fusion is just obnoxious to deal with. While it does offer some good traits like checking Fairy-types, it has a literal ounce of skill expression since it's not too hard to just get the ball rolling with it. It was very obnoxious, and I'm happy that it's gone from the meta again.
While this was also something I don't like it felt less egregious than Iron Moth, since actual counterplay like Fluffy Corviknight or Skarmory and fat Unaware defensive fusions exist and do well into it. Swords Dance sets are the bane of any teams existence in the mid or late game though, its too easy to set up and clean with it and it doesn't help that it hits like a truck too. Honestly it could've been banned initially with the Keldeo and Volcarona slate, but I think just a few days with it didn't hurt much. Good thing it's gone too though, since we actually gauged how it functions.
I think both of these Pokemon are perfectly fine and have existing counterplay, and even have some flaws as well; Gouging sometimes can be pretty dull into teams with Alomomola, Great Tusk, and Unaware fusions and sometimes won't live up to what its bulk shows, and Gholdengo has always had problems with strong offensive Pokemon that are faster than it and common techs to beat it, both of which are quite abundant. I do think Good as Gold can be annoying on fusions with Sinistcha, but usually it's something that catches you off guard and not something that's just overbearing.
Now with some statements about common topics out of the way, I'll talk about things I personally like to use:
Lokix (Ogerpon-Wellspring) (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip
- Encore
I wanted this thing banned since DLC1 and honestly I'm shocked that it's still legal, this is on the same level of Iron Boulder for me when it comes to strong Swords Dance users. Tinted Lens and a decent Attack boost turns this into a trading and commonly game winning machine, nothing can come into this safely barring Unaware users that can still be fished for critical hits. You can try to prep for it but I guarantee you it will still give you trouble in some way, it's just that strong.
Cinderace (Dragonite) @ Choice Band
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Thunder Punch
So this is just your standard revenge killer but actually jacked, this thing has saved me in so much games it's crazy. It's a very good safety blanket into offensive stuff and when it comes to balance I'd say it's slightly annoying but nothing too absurd. Good Pokemon!
Pincurchin (Raging Bolt) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rising Voltage
- Thunderclap
- Dragon Pulse
Ok I just want to get into the bans, so pretty much this is like a mini Miraidon and hits like an absolute truck. The speed outspeeds something around the base 75-80 base Speed benchmark but I forgot where.
Also here are some teams I used to hit Top 3 on Frantic Fusions ladder, all of which can function after the banning of the Pokemon below:
- Ignore the four Dragon-types here but this is just standard Gouging Fire stuff. You won't do bad into Fairy-types with this team however be wary against stuff like Latios. - What if Maushold was strong? - The team I used the most on ladder, Lokix + Ogerpon and Porygon-Z + Latios is an insane offensive core that will often cause your opponents headaches, and Dragonite in the back as well doesn't help. - Didn't use this much but it's probably okay, Wise Glasses is just there because I don't think there's any harm with using it over Leftovers. - As much as I hate Life Orb it's used a lot here, Iron Leaves is like a mini Boulder with Sharpness that hits a little harder with Psychic STAB. You can make Night Slash into Leaf Blade if you want to.With all of that out the way, here's what you probably want the most out of this message:
Iron Boulder and Iron Moth are banned from Frantic Fusions!
| hidin | TaxFraud | zastra | Hiusi guy | Orangex | Result | |
| Iron Boulder | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Iron Moth | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
I've elaborated above about the Pokemon on the slate and I'm sure you can find other posts talking about them too, they were both very unhealthy presences that had to go in order to actually have some progression in this metagame.
And by the way, a set compendium (and a personal VR of mine) are on the way to be used as resources for you all! Stay tuned for that.
Balanced Hackmons is a very serious format that is part of the circuit, and despite being able to freely choose your ability there, it doesn't have Ability Clause.
I think you just need to learn and adapt, the format is not like you describe it, and the fact you wrongly list Sneasler as banned makes me think you aren't quite aware of the tier itself.
Also, stuff like pult, Unburden and Triage, have a negative impact on the viability of offensive teams, why? Their level of speed control heavily restrict what offensive teams can even use, and are easily countered by stall, by banning them the council did a good job at opening up options for offensive teams.
If you want to see a change in the format, first you have to learn it and then share your opinions with a well-informed post with proof of what you are saying, with high level replays at the least, this will let others know that you are actually trying to cooperate, insulting others will not take you anywhere and will make so the point of your post get lost.
I suggest everyone in this thread to respect others, the council is not obligated to listed to people that openly insult them.
I have a few things to say about this.
First, your opponent's team in the replay has so many glaring flaws that it immediately calls into doubt any points you try to demonstrate with it.
Second, I think I should illustrate my point about Defog being bad at handling hazards a bit better.
"Defog has always been a top tier hazard removing tool since it gained that functionality, and really weakened hazard's strength." This is dead wrong. Take ORAS OU for example, where Spikes are so good and the Defoggers so bad that Excadrill is the number one mon in the metagame. You have to actually examine the Defoggers and see how they stack up. So the extensive list of splashable Defog users is: Corviknight. That's it. Corviknight is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not even the best at handling hazards. Direct competition with hazard setting Skarmory (who I believe to be superior anyway) and it's not great into any of the common Spikes setters. Skarmory can quite freely come in and continue to use Spikes, at worst stalemating you. Samurott-H's Hydro Pumps can really sting so you can't come in freely, meaning you need to Defog on something else, something a good player can prevent if they play well. Ting-Lu and Deoxys-D both just waste your very limited Roost PP, with Deoxys even able to get pivot initiative over U-turn with Teleport. Add this onto the glaring issues of PP I mentioned in my prior post and you can clearly see that Defog is not a great option.
Still, the council does not find that Good as Gold is an overwhelming ability for the metagame, although it is most certainly on the radar and will get action if our opinions shift as the meta develops. I also feel I need to reiterate that Gholdengo is a greater positive presence than Good as Gold is a negative one.
This is not a feasible option. I'm not the foremost expert on this, but as I understand it OM tiering policy is based on general Smogon tiering policy, and there is no chance of this getting changed just for this silly little metagame.
This is more so that I have the bad habit of referring to powerful/dominant parts of the meta as "broken," not saying that they are genuinely overwhelming. I'm just saying that Good as Gold doesn't push hazards over the edge, and that they would likely be just as dominant if it was gone. Even then, there is no simple way to go about addressing the potential issue of entry hazards warping the meta, simply due to the nature of hazards themselves. Banning the hazard setters would certainly be too harsh, and the list of hazard abusers stretches into infinity, taking that off of the table.
As a side note, entry hazards are what keeps Regenerator in line, and judging by the other things you've brought up, I would think you would be in favor of that.
One final thing, discussing Regenerator is pointless. Myself and others have clearly outlined the reasons why it is not broken multiple times, and we are fucking tired of making the same points and citing the same arguments time and time again.
Are these pokemon bad? Either way, I still said the move is good, not the defoggers. I have not played gen 6 OU but when I think of bad I don't think Scizor, Zapdos, Gliscor, and Skarmory. Not only was I not "dead wrong", because I said the move is good, it seems you may be wrong by saying they are bad.
Handling hazards by just spamming hazards so now both of you have full layers of spikes is not a good way of handling spikes, sure you're both in the same situation but depending on how your team is built this could be way worse for you or your opponent. Handling hazards by trading=/=handling hazards by removing them.