FlareBlitz's Round 3 QC Round

[FlareBlitz]

I had a ton of calculations and reasoning and stuff written up here and Firefox crashed so I lost all of it -___-

So I'm going to make a quick outline and briefly mention some things first. I'll go back and edit with more detailed stuff later.
My assignments are Ludicolo, Lanturn, Mespirit, and Weezing.

Ludicolo

Ludicolo's analysis is...ludicrous. *sunglasses*

But yeah it's kinda fucked up, we'll probably need to just ignore the OU and Ubers stuff and just shove UU variants of the same sets on the top. I'm thinking it'll look like this:

UU Physical
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Seed Bomb
-Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch

UU Special
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Energy Ball
-HP Psychic/Rain Dance/Focus Punch

Oh and the subseeder is horrible, it's walled by Venusaur in like three different ways. That does not need a UU variant, although we could make a mention in AC.

Lanturn

-Pretty much every defensive Lanturn set listed on site needs this spread: 40 HP/192 DEF/100 SATK/176 SDEF, Calm.

I worked through a lot of calcs to come up with that and I had them all listed but yeah. Just as a quick summary that lets you survive Impish Donphan's Earthquake and boosted Swellow Facade and +2 LO Return from Feraligatr and other stuff while still giving you enough special defense to tank Moltres. The SATK is required for the ohko on Rhyperior and the 2hko on specially defensive Donphan and kills on Moltres and Feraligatr.

-The special tank set needs to have Heal Bell in the first slash on the final slot, and a Discharge slash next to Thunderbolt (Thunderbolt is still preferred because you fail to KO a lot of stuff without it).

-Make a new UU version of the Parafusion set with Discharge as the primary slash over Thunderbolt, Ice Beam as the primary slash next to Thunderwave, and Surf as the only option (without Surf you lose to donphan and rhyperior). Also add the UU-specific EVs.

-The RestTalk set is fine as long as the EV changes I mentioned first are made

-Rain Dance is fine, but Confuse Ray is stupid. Heal Bell should be the option there.

-Add SubCharge set.

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Modest
104 HP/32 DEF/252 SATK/120 SPE
-Substitute
-Charge Beam
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Thunderbolt

Mesprit

These sets are all over the place. It needs the sets re-ordered and a couple of the sets need to be condensed and changed.

-Order should be Supporting Lead -> Physical Choice -> Special Choice -> Calm Mind

-Physical Choice condensed with Trick lead

-Supporting Attacker set changed

Mespirit @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Modest
208 HP/236 SATK/64 SPE

-Stealth Rock
-Psychic
-Grass Knot/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
-Thunderwave/U-Turn

-Calm Mind set should have Psychic/Thunderbolt (much better coverage than Psychic/Ice Beam)

Weezing

-Even the physical wall set likes some special defense because of venusaur being a versatile dick. I'm thinking 252 HP/176 DEF/76 SDEF, Bold.

-Replace current RestTalk set with a specially defensive version (Franky has one written up). Alternatively, we can leave that set, call it "physically defensive RestTalk" and then upload the other set as "specially defensive RestTalk" but that seems kind of stupid. I think keeping the specially defensive variant as the main version with a physically defensive spread mentioned in AC should be fine.

There's more stuff that I had written up that I probably forgot, so input is definitely appreciated. I'll look at this later and go into more detail on the things people are confused about.

 

[franky]

My two cents FB:

-the lanturn spread is pretty much customizable. with that said, i'd like a mention of outpacing adamant torterra (i forgot how much is needed), but it allows you to punish overzealous torterra attempting to set up a substitute or rock polish. the speed also ensures you outpace most milotic.

-a sub charge beam set is viable from experience. most users who use registeel for their dedicated special wall often lose to this set since most users run seismic toss over earthquake. chansey also loses to this set and can't really slow down lanturn thanks to volt absorb. lanturn can form 101 subs, hit quite hard after a boost, and has excellent coverage in water, electric, and ice. needs more testing though as i've tested it before and it really wasn't that consistent. it tramples bulky/slower teams though.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Lanturn needs 168 SPE to outpace Torterra. Could be worth it depending on your team, but that really takes away from its walling abilities. I completely forgot about the SubCharge set, I had it included in my first post before my browser crashed. I'll put in the OP thanks for reminding me.

 

[FlareBlitz]

If no one else has any comments, can someone make the site changes I outlined? Do the new sets I suggested need to be documented somewhere or..?

 

[Bologo]

Lanturn needs a separate UU Parafusion set, because the current Parafusion set is tailored for OU use. While the sets are trying to achieve the same general thing, the OU Parafusion set really needs its EVs and moves to stay the same, which is why an UU variation is needed.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Thanks. Updated the OP to reflect your comments.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Bump. This is pretty straightforward stuff but I'd like more people to look at it all the same.

 

[Flora]

I've been trying HP Psychic over Rain Dance on my special offensive Ludicolo and I've barely used it. Of course, it's useful for the OHKO on random Toxicroak, but I think re-setting the rain is overall more useful. That, or the UU ladder is crap.

I didn't think the SubSeeder was that bad that it warrants to be off site but I'll retest to make sure.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I've actually never used special ludicolo myself (imo the SD set > the special set) but I'll take your word for it. I'll de-slash HP Psychic or move it to the backend of slashes.

The subseeder really does seem pretty terrible. Water/Grass isn't a great typing for subseeders, since the most dangerous Pokemon to subseeders are grass types (and the water typing removes the grass resistance and to add insult to injury is NVE against other grass types). Ludicolo isn't particularly fast either, so that doesn't help. I'm not sure how you're finding success with it actually.

 

[Flora]

I guess HP Psychic can still be slashed because Toxicroak's a huge pest to Rain Dance teams. Just putting it as Rain Dance/HP Psychic/Focus Punch in the last slot would probably be best for the special version.

I've been trying out the SubSeed set along with Jubilee and it's still fairly decent imo as long as there is no Venusaur (and oddly I haven't seen too much...). It's bulky enough to take a hit and set up a Substitute or Leech Seed (like against Scarfed Pokemon). It can then stall out certain foes (walls not called Clefable) and slowly defeat them (especially with Toxic Spikes support; Drapion's useful because of its Ground weakness) It's certainly not Ludicolo's best set, but it's usable.

EDIT: One thing I didn't like about SubSeed though is that it's trying to stall under a "time limit" aka rain. Although it could keep on stalling outside of rain, its perks start to lack without the rain.

EDIT: After some more matches, SubSeed Ludicolo hasn't been pulling its weight too much anymore... it's becoming somewhat more deadweight all of a sudden. IDK, in some cases, it's okay, but the other cases, it sucks. I'm leaning toward Optional Changes for it now so if you agree with putting it in OC as your final decisions, I'll do that at my analysis.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

I've been using the SubCharge set pretty extensively recently, and it's very good. One thing, the speed to outspeed Torterra is largely unnecessary, you're behind a Sub most of the time that you would be facing Torterra, and max speed Torterra (and Torterra in general) is becoming less common. 124 Speed EVs outspeeds standard Milotic, which should be enough most of the time, moving the 44 other EVs to HP or special defense, and mention 168 EVs in the Additional Comments.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Thanks for the input guys. I made some changes to the OP. Changed SubCharge spread to outspeed Adamant Aggron and below only, using the rest of the EVs for maxing SATK and increasing DEF a bit. SubSeed Ludicolo goes in AC possibly.

 

[Flora]

SubSeed Ludicolo goes in AC possibly.

Did you mean OC? I don't think you can fit SubSeeding with the special rain offense's and the SD set's AC since they don't have much in common.