Pet Mod DLCmons: Ultra (Regional Forms Slate)

[Magmajudis]

After more than 5 months, we are finally back to slates! Following Hematite's feedback, slates will be separated in two slates (subbing ideas for flavor and subbing the actual Pokemon) from now on.

We are going to start by tweaking a few lines from our regional variants slate that were too similar to each other. Starting with...

Alolan-Foongus, Alolan-Aegislash, Alolan-Serperior

You have 5 days to submit ideas for flavor on those (since the goal here is to change them, don't feel pressured to make them fit the current mon, that would pretty much go against the point here)!

Have fun!

 

[Magmajudis]

Alolan Foongus/Alolan Amoonguss
Both become Fire/Fairy
Gain Fairy Wind, Dazzling Gleam, & Play Rough
Both loose heatproof and solar power in exchange for Chlorophyll
Reasoning: Mushrooms aren't technically plants and similar to flabebe it "isn't a plant despite it having plants on it," (btw it has plants on it as in it is decorated in flowers.) Also fairy/fire is a new type. This also still fits as the pokemon's original role as a regen pivot.

Alolan Aegislash
Shield gets Leaf Guard while Blade gets Anger Point
Reasoning: Both abilities are sun based originally and useless as it is only base 60 speed and 40 SpA so they both should be fixed. Now Shield has... still a bad ability. Oh well, Normal Aegislash does fine with a mediocre ability as well. I guess it can't be statused in sun now? Oh well. Also Blade form is clearly fuming so it gets anger point (it is literally on fire). If the opponent gets lucky, or unlucky in this case, you can wreck havoc apon them with a huge attack boost

We're not currently asking for stats, moves and such, but rather for flavor ideas and lore development.

 

[Ema Skye]

We're not currently asking for stats, moves and such, but rather for flavor ideas and lore development.

Not council, but I don’t think the flavour really has to change to make competitive changes. A lot of the flavour is open-ended and brief.

 

[Regic Boat]

Alolan Amoonguss, The mimic pokemon.
(flavor: this pokemon poses as a dead plant to attract trainers or pokemon it may percieve as prey.)

Alolan Aegislash, The burning spirit pokemon.

(flavor: honestly didnt think of anything for it.)

Alolan Serperior, The Dragon pokemon.
(flavor: none i can't think of any.)

 

[Magmajudis]

Alolan Amoonguss, The mimic pokemon.
foonguss becomes a pure grass type, while amoonguss is grass/ground. replace its abilities with sand veil and stamina.
(flavor: this pokemon poses as a dead plant to attract trainers or pokemon it may percieve as prey.)

Alolan Aegislash, The burning spirit pokemon.
becomes a fire/steel type. not really anything else to add to it.
(flavor: honestly didnt think of anything for it.)

Alolan Serperior, The (something because i cant think of anything cool) pokemon.
becomes dragon/fairy because i literally could not think of anything cool for it. replace contrary with pixilate ig
(flavor: none i can't think of any.)

Guys this slate is only for flavour ideas for them, the competitive side will happen next slate.

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

I'm not a fan of how this is going along. Flavor should be done by the creators of the sub, not by the community. I thought we were going to alter the subs to be more different from each other, not rework them entirely to be completely different from the original sub. Sorry for the one liner. I just don't understand this process at all.

 

[Ema Skye]

I'm not a fan of how this is going along. Flavor should be done by the creators of the sub, not by the community. I thought we were going to alter the subs to be more different from each other, not rework them entirely to be completely different from the original sub. Sorry for the one liner. I just don't understand this process at all.

What seems like is happening is that we're basically redoing over the regional slate, but the mons that get the forms are already decided. I hope I'm understanding it wrong, but this is my understanding from the discord conversations. It seems like we wasted a lot of time then, given that we're basically starting over, and the coding is still in the process.

We agreed on Discord to tweak the subs. This doesn't mean we have to rebuild them all. All three can be Fire/Grass mons as long as they fulfill different roles in the meta. And, again, the flavor doesn't have to change to do the tweaking.

For example, there are 10 new fully-evolved Fire-types, 8 new fully-evolved Grass-types, and 6 new fully-evolved Ghost-types, including three separate Fire/Grass-types and two Fire/Steel-types that are both bugs
Four of the Fire-types have Solar Power-- actually, two of the Fire-types are the same type combination and have Solar Power

This is the situation we created last time. Flavor isn't going to fix this problem, and it will be months at the current rate of progress before we tweak all of them (5 days for flavor, 5 days for comp = 10 days for each round, times by multiple rounds). Our current problem is not a flavor problem; it is a competitive problem. This can just be solved by a 'rebalance' slate, which is what I thought it was when I voted for tweaking in the discussion. I was not voting for a multi-month endeavour to get this mod going again.

And on a more general note, I wonder if - for Pokémon, not for moves - it might be worth doing flavor steps separately from competitive steps in the future? because I think different submitters and voters may have different priorities and it would be beneficial if one person didn't have to figure out all of it
For example, the first part of a regional variants slate might be coming up with cool variant ideas that would suit the island and come with something about the island's lore and development; then people might vote on those, and three or four might win at a time, and then the following slate would be people submitting stats, Abilities and movepools for just those winners

This is the advice that the council is following and it is good advice, but I think it's being misappropriated in this situation. I genuinely feel like I wasted my time back in January given that we're basically redoing the last slate (since it seems like that's what council wants to do, or is at least communicating it that way). If we're starting over, fine - just call it what it is.

Learn from the mistakes and move on.

 

[Low-Key]

I am not really sure if we're gonna start over or not, and if we do, coders will have all their time wasted. Even though that's a major downside, there could still be some hope left.

What seems like is happening is that we're basically redoing over the regional slate, but the mons that get the forms are already decided. I hope I'm understanding it wrong, but this is my understanding from the discord conversations. It seems like we wasted a lot of time then, given that we're basically starting over, and the coding is still in the process.

This is what I mean - we're basically gonna redo this entire metagame. If anyone decides to do it, why not make a new thread for it (by talking to the mods and kakaks?) That way we could start fresh and new to not worry about anything time-consuming. Anyways, here are my entries:
Alolan Foongus/Amoonguss
Grass/Ground type. It was obvious that their "Be a fake Pokeball" strategy was gonna wear out as more people came to realize that they were just imitators of Pokeballs, so they're forming into groups to protect themselves from humans. They managed to get rougher skin by using the ground as their main source.
Alolan Aegislash
Fighting/Ghost Type. Basically what they've done is to go the hard way - taking the remaining Doublades and using them as weapons to colonize certain regions of the area - even though they haven't actually succeeded yet.
Alolan Serperior
Grass/Poison type. While being similar to snakes is one thing, they decided to disguise themselves as one - making their fangs extremely poisonous so that humans could fear them.

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

This is the advice that the council is following and it is good advice, but I think it's being misappropriated in this situation. I genuinely feel like I wasted my time back in January given that we're basically redoing the last slate (since it seems like that's what council wants to do, or is at least communicating it that way). If we're starting over, fine - just call it what it is.

If we really are just starting over the slates instead of just altering them slightly to be less similar I don't want to be a part of doing this. The people who won those slates made the subs with roles and flavor in mind and scrapping all of those and making them into completely different pokemon just doesn't make sense to me. In conclusion, If we are going to continue on with this plan I will not be taking part in any of this and will not be part of this mod while it has slates about completely reworking a huge slate from scratch, especially since lots of the subs were great and some were fine. If these slates are reworked to be more similar to the original subs then I will join in on them as that idea is fine with me.

 

[Magmajudis]

What seems like is happening is that we're basically redoing over the regional slate, but the mons that get the forms are already decided. I hope I'm understanding it wrong, but this is my understanding from the discord conversations. It seems like we wasted a lot of time then, given that we're basically starting over, and the coding is still in the process.

We agreed on Discord to tweak the subs. This doesn't mean we have to rebuild them all. All three can be Fire/Grass mons as long as they fulfill different roles in the meta. And, again, the flavor doesn't have to change to do the tweaking.


This is the situation we created last time. Flavor isn't going to fix this problem, and it will be months at the current rate of progress before we tweak all of them (5 days for flavor, 5 days for comp = 10 days for each round, times by multiple rounds). Our current problem is not a flavor problem; it is a competitive problem. This can just be solved by a 'rebalance' slate, which is what I thought it was when I voted for tweaking in the discussion. I was not voting for a multi-month endeavour to get this mod going again.


This is the advice that the council is following and it is good advice, but I think it's being misappropriated in this situation. I genuinely feel like I wasted my time back in January given that we're basically redoing the last slate (since it seems like that's what council wants to do, or is at least communicating it that way). If we're starting over, fine - just call it what it is.

Learn from the mistakes and move on.

At least for me, i don't think we're "starting over". Here we are asking for flavor so that the submitters for the competitive tweaks have a basis for their subs. Considering how central flavor is for the mod, i'd say it's best to do that rather than do one big rebalance slate, which would just have the same problems as the original variants slate: There would be too many winners and there would most likely be a lot of similar subs that could end up ending in the mod together.

 

[Ema Skye]

Ok, I’m out then too. We are essentially starting over the last slate so I’m not wasting my time again. It’s going to be months before this mod is fun again. We are also changing an integral part of people’s subs (the flavour) through the community, which feels disrespectful to the original creators.

Again, this is not what was presented when we took the poll on Discord.

 

[Magmajudis]

Ok, I’m out then too. We are essentially starting over the last slate so I’m not wasting my time again. It’s going to be months before this mod is fun again. We are also changing an integral part of people’s subs (the flavour) through the community, which feels disrespectful to the original creators.

Again, this is not what was presented when we took the poll on Discord.

As i said, we are not starting all over again. We are specifying flavor so that the tweaks are focused and don't end up too similar. Also, the only subs that actually had flavor back then were Gardevoir, Terret, Vespiqueen, Raikou, Entei and Suicune.

Also, while we didn't explicitly say in the poll that we would use this process, we made it clear in other conversations, more than a day before the slate opened, and also talked about using it for new slates for a long time (since the 4th of June specifically).

If you wish to continue this conversation pmease do so on the discord server.

 

[ViZar]

It feels so great doing this again.
We are heading to the rebalancing slate. We are trying to avoid overlaps (types and some abilities) with the main suspects being Amoonguss, Serperior and Aegislash (We have to many Grass-, Fire- and Rock-types). We encourage you to make them unique from one another.

This Slate will last for 4 days.


I also wanted to mention that Magmajudis is deeply sorry for their behavior in the thread. Just know that we care for this mod and that we would like to bring it back to its former glory.

 

[Ema Skye]

idk if there's a template here but i'm willing to move on and just list stuff. This is only going to focus on the fully evolved forms in the interest of time.

Alolan Serperior:

• This is going to draw a comparison to to Gossephalon from FEUU, and this is going to be a bit of a rework. Serperior gets complete existing movepool. For Fire options, gains further access to Ember, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Fire Spin, Overheat, Fiery Dance and Fire Lash, with the last two being most relevant.
• Fiery Dance combines with Calm Mind to make it an interesting Calm Mind user, allowing it to attack and gain some boosts.
• Fire Lash is awesome on Coil sets due to the guaranteed defence drop and makes it deceptively hard to switch into, especially with its native access to Knock Off.
• "But Ema, why are you making boosting sets on a contrary mon". nope, this doesnt have contrary anymore. Instead, I'm going to give it 'Ultra Health' from FEUU (yay easy coding) instead of Contrary. This combines well with all three sets, giving it recovery on a KO and complements its emphasis on setup attacking easily. It will keep Overgrow because I'm feeling lazy.
• Its statspread is staying the same.
• I know this was created as a cool sun mon and I've completely changed the concept of the mon here (my apologies to kakaks) but I think this ultimately creates a more interesting mon that has use on more team builds.

Alolan Amoonguss

• This one is all over the place so I'm going to try and simplify it a bit to focus with it. While Serperior is focusing on the bulky setup build, this one is going to go for more of a tank build. It will lose Solar Power and instead get Flower Veil.
• The movepool is going to be changed to address this focus. It will lose Quiver Dance, Fiery Dance and Calm Mind, so it is unable to make use of boosting sets. I am also going to give it access to U-Turn, Recover and Knock Off, all of which play into its newly defined role.
• This turns the Pokemon into a swiss army knife of team support, with access to Spore, Wisp, Stun Spore and Toxic to shut down any Pokemon, while having access either to Regenerator (it has Torn-T levels of bulk) or Flower Veil (now it's immune to status!). It further supports its team through item removal or cleric support and it preserves momentum through its access to U-Turn. Additionally, 115 SpA ensures it doesn't stay passive, unlike Toxapex for example.

Alolan Aegislash

• I don't really know why this one is here for a rebalance. I think it contrasts well with the other two as a slow physical breaker. I'm kinda disappointed it's just a better Alolan Marowak though. So I’m going to go ahead and swap Ghost type for Dark type.
• Base form is now immune to Prankster, which is huge. Sword form is also an amazing Pursuit trapper. I don’t think any other changes are needed.

 

[ViZar]

It's been a long time coming. The council decided to poll for the future of this mod and how we will progress from this point on. Vote with the reacts to the post:

1. Continue the mod as is. Moving towards other slates. React with Sad Marill
2. Going back to the beginning to the regional forms slate and redo them. (Plubium Z and Sanddern would still be in this mod since they won in smash and Arachsoil would still be in the mod, because it was in mind before the regional slate) React with Angry Primape

We would like to revive this mod and hopefully, you will help us revive it.

 

[ViZar]

Never loved being so hated :)

We are gonna redo the regional slate in the V2 thread. So check it out. The leadership was moved to Magmajudis by kakaks (kakaks is still in this mod) and Ema Skye is our new council member! Congrats to you two! Now let's move to the new thread.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dlcmons-ultra-v2.3688112/