Absolutely, I agree since he was such a big threat last gen. Lately, his usage is so low that is inevitable it will happen. He might actually function well on a Rain Team since that would get rid of his fire weakness, but who knows.
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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
I've faced many Metagross before, and I always could dispose of them easily. There are many ways to defeat Metagross. You can burn and stall him, OHKO him with super-effective attacks, or simply hit it hard with neutral special attacks. I doubt that it will become UU, however.
Metagross just faces too much competition for a team slot from Jirachi, who has way more versatility and basically better stats all around not counting attack (and metagross' steel STAB is terrible in this rain infested metagame anyway, Jirachi at least gets to flinch stuff with Iron Head)
Metagross still has a tiny niche, its a pretty strong bulky tank that can take a hit from either side pretty easily and precede to 1HKO in return. But OU seems to be at a serious lack of tanks sadly thanks to the power creap, its not a bad pokemon, I could certainly see it being used as a glue pokemon on a bulky offensive team, but that doesn't deserve a place in OU, just as much as swampert or snorlax deserve to be OU.
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
Metagross also gets Iron Head. Still, you would be playing with an inferior Jirachi, even if Metagross has a better attack and a better defense; his other stats are worse, and Jirachi even has a wide movepool to compensate it's bad STABs.
Metagross is just one of these pokémon that slowy decays with time.
This brutal metal monster definitely deserved THAT ability... And by that, i mean Sheer Force, which would fit Metagross's theme very nicely. Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, elemental punches, all these nice moves would get a huge boost, and Metagross could once again find it's lost shine. But instead GF gave him Light Metal... Great!
But the way it is now, it is true that there is almost no place for Metagross in OU, and i am definitely expecting him to drop in UU in October.
But the way it is now, it is true that there is almost no place for Metagross in OU, and i am definitely expecting him to drop in UU in October.
I have not seen a single one since BW2. Nearly every steel is in jeopardy. They're all either easily outsped, bad typing, or demolished by Fighting types. Especially with Brelooms new reign of Terror. Even Heatran and Ferrothorn are seeing a drop. Lucario is still good imo having access to Priority in three different coverages.
I've seen a couple, but it just has a much harder time setting up in the rain infested metagame. Landorus-T doesn't help matters any as it's just another thing that Lucario can't get around if it opts against Ice Punch. Even if it does use Ice Punch, Lando-T's Intimidate is enough to weaken ESpeed (and other moves) for something else to handle.
I've seen a good amount of Lucario. And this whole Breloom reign of terror thing is BS. It was more hype than anything. If anything, the biggest impact on the metagame is the easy abuse that rain teams have access to. Similar to that before the SS+ Drizzle Ban when you would put Politoed and a bunch of abusers. I'll admit Breloom is a huge threat but Ferrothorn will never drop because of it. Breloom has an amazing counter in the form of Gengar,
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
I wouldn't say that Gengar is a counter. Once it is Spored, you can Bullet Seed him to death. Gengar resists Grass but it's so frail that using Bullet Seed 1 or 2 times should kill him.
The only counter that came to my mind now is Celebi. It resists both Grass and Fighting and can switch out if it is Spored.
The problem with countering Technician Breloom is that it can overcome its counters with a combination of Spore, Low Sweep and Bullet Seed, and that many Pokémon that resists Grass and Fighting still take massive damage from Breloom's attacks. Today, I killed Tornadus-T with my Breloom because it got hit by Low Sweep, with lowered it's speed enough to it be outsped by Breloom, Spored and then Bulled Seeded to death.
I actually use a Metagross on a sun team of mine as a trick scarfer lead (252 hp, 252 Spd Jolly) with SR, bullet punch, and eq. It's a weird set, but it hasn't let me down yet, and the ability to cripple a bulky switch in never goes unnoticed. I agree with the sentiment posted above, that Meta can take at least one hit, and usually two if they are not SE or powerful stabs. Meta is not a meta defining poke, but he is reliable.
Celebi has, and always will be, Breloom's greatest counter as it quite literally doesn't care about anything it can do. Spore? Use Natural Cure. Heavy damage? Just Recover it off. Technician Mach Punch / Bullet Seed / Low Sweep? All resisted. Then Celebi just has Psychic to blast Breloom into oblivion. All of Breloom's other checks and counters such as Latias, Gengar, and Tornadus-T risk a Spore at the very least. Stone Edge just dismantles a predicted Gengar or Tornadus-T switch-in.
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
If Celebi doesn't carry Psychic, it still has Hidden Power Fire (or Ice, but that is rare) to kill Breloom, although Psychic is always the better option.
That said, I would say that Celebi is the only counter that Breloom really has, as all other said "counters" can be Spored, can have their speed lowered by Low Sweep, and if you use the right combination of attacks, Breloom can "counter" its own said "counters". Gengar is also close to a counter as it is immune to Fighting, resists Grass and can destroy Breloom with Shadow Ball, as it is frail. Gengar only has to avoid Spore, and it can then tear Breloom apart, but otherwise, it risks being killed by Bullet Seed. It must also avoid Rock Tomb (some people use this instead of Low Sweep for coverage, but I still prefer Low Sweep) and Stone Edge, but I never saw any Technician Breloom using these attacks. All other alleged counters, in reality are checks or revenge killers, as they must avoid Spore and Low Sweep (or Rock Tomb).
Has anyone even thought about using honchkrow to get at brelooom? It seemed to work last gen.
I run CB Techniloom, and I just LOVE to lure switch-ins into a Low Sweep. There isn't too much that likes switching into hazards, eating a CB Low Sweep, and can still be fast enough to avoid being finished off by another low sweep on the next turn.
There is one move I'm completely baffled as to why Metagross doesn't get: Heavy Slam.
It would be Steel STAB, coming from the second heaviest Pokémon in OU. And it would fit Metagross perfectly. While most of its Pokédex entries comments on its awesome brain(s), the one that doesn't says this:
"Metagross is the result of two Metang achieving fusion. When hunting, this Pokémon pins the prey to the ground under its massive body. It then eats the helpless victim using the large mouth on its stomach."
Picture Metagross attacking its helpless victim (say, a parked car. Steel Pokémon eat metal after all). How does it do it? Of course, it could seize it by a mighty claw, lift it high in the air, and slam it full-force into the ground, mashing it between the ground and a hammer-like leg (Meteor Mash). Or, if the prey is larger than a Vespa scooter, it would silently hover above it, bravely defying all of gravity, then let itself fall, hitting the target with all four legs. Then it opens it mouth and devours the scraps. After consuming its meal, it hovers away, leaving an unsuspecting commuter one hell of a surprise the morning after.
So yeah, Heavy Slam for Metagross, please.
It would be Steel STAB, coming from the second heaviest Pokémon in OU. And it would fit Metagross perfectly. While most of its Pokédex entries comments on its awesome brain(s), the one that doesn't says this:
"Metagross is the result of two Metang achieving fusion. When hunting, this Pokémon pins the prey to the ground under its massive body. It then eats the helpless victim using the large mouth on its stomach."
Picture Metagross attacking its helpless victim (say, a parked car. Steel Pokémon eat metal after all). How does it do it? Of course, it could seize it by a mighty claw, lift it high in the air, and slam it full-force into the ground, mashing it between the ground and a hammer-like leg (Meteor Mash). Or, if the prey is larger than a Vespa scooter, it would silently hover above it, bravely defying all of gravity, then let itself fall, hitting the target with all four legs. Then it opens it mouth and devours the scraps. After consuming its meal, it hovers away, leaving an unsuspecting commuter one hell of a surprise the morning after.
So yeah, Heavy Slam for Metagross, please.
Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen in the near future. I have yet to see a single impostor ditto on the ladder, besides my own. It is really amazing, but it just gets easily destroyed if it's not carrying a scarf, and if it is, it can only switch into a few things (mostly choiced / setup mons).
You're talking about the same people who claim that Pidgeot flies at mach2 speed, and made a bazillion other Pokemon faster. ;)
Using this same logic, I'm guessing Tornadus is faster than a photon in the Pokemon world, which would mean it travels backwards in time, which explains Missing No. in RBG--they are merely time-dilated Tornadus.
Ditto also fares quite horribly against Stall, especially because it's one and only set carries a choice item. Many stall pokes also only carry one attacking move (IE TormentTran, Jelli, and Vaporeon) and are immune to their one attacking move making Ditto relatively useless in that situation.
As for Metagross getting Heavy Slam, well pokemon is not supposed to make sense. Get used to it.
Stall is practically a nonfactor these days, so I wouldn't use that as a judge of Ditto's viability. Stall teams have serious issues keeping up with the offensive threats of BW2, especially since Deoxys-D can taunt pretty much any member of a stall team and then set up entry hazards for free.
I'd say this metagame is the death of stall. Unless you're really experienced in using it, it's just too hard. I don't think that's a bad thing though, it means more stuff can come down from ubers without worrying if it destroys a whole playstyle.. HO didn't exist at all in gen1 and 2 so I don't see why stall can't be decimated in gen 5.
ok, ok don't laugh but has anyone tried sigilyph as a techniloom counter? I've used one before BW2 and with the right defensive (or spD) investment, it is a great tank AND setup poke. Once the burn/toxic orb is up, it's not getting spored. It quad resists mach punch and resists bullet seed. With the right prediction, you can also burn breloom, crippling it (most brelooms I have seen are tech, not poison heal and for the sake of this post, the reason for using sigilyph). It's also naturally faster than breloom and if the ev's are tailored correctly, can outspeed it if necessary.
Calc'd: Adamant LO 252Atk Breloom 5 hits of bullet seed do 51-61% to 252/252 bold sigilyph
Calc'd: Adamant LO 252Atk Breloom 5 hits of bullet seed do 51-61% to 252/252 bold sigilyph
