BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[Lee]

how defensive, i wonder? don't forget that Excadrill benefited from BW2 quite nicely, in the form of Iron Head.

+1 LO Iron Head vs 252/0 Landorus-T = 81.94% - 96.86% (58.97% chance to OHKO after SR)
+1 LO Iron Head vs 252/252+ Landorus-T = 58.12% - 68.59% (don't forget the 30% flinch chance!)
+0 LO Iron Head vs 4/0 Breloom = 88.17% - 104.20% (58.97% chance to OHKO after SR)
+2 LO Iron Head vs 252/184+ Gliscor = 70.34% - 83.05%

 

[Bruno Magno]

Is Landorus-T supposed to be more of a defensive Pokemon?

I'm using it as a Choice Scarf sweeper, even if 91 base Speed is kinda lame. Though, it's still a lot with a 1.5x multiplier, and 145 Attack makes up for it anyway. I think it's a good Explosion abuser, can kill a lot of threats with it

 

[Bribery]

You only get one ability =D.

Also I have a question for you OU players: What kind of role does Landorus-T usually play? I tried using it on an offensive sand team and quickly wanted to use the regular form instead. Is Landorus-T supposed to be more of a defensive Pokemon?

I think it's an incredible Scarfer for non-Sand teams, provided that you already have checks for Volcarona, Salamence, and DD Haxorus. The only reason I'm using Landorus-I on mine is because of Volcarona. Otherwise I would use Landorus-T in a heartbeat. Intimidate is such a versatile ability and it's great for scouting when paired with a fast U-turn.

I've tried bulky sets as well but I always found myself preferring Gliscor instead.

 

[probationsmack]

I find the therian formes very easy to play around as long as you're team is set up with the correct immunities. Funnily enough, I started running defensive magnezone just to 4x resist og tornadus hurricane and have since switched to sub charge beam with great success (ferrothorn, scizor bullet punch, choice scarf jirachi iron head) . I also try to keep mamoswine alive though. Keldeo also hasn't been that hard to play around, but I've always been carrying a water absorber for a while now. From there its usually a clever double switch to something faster that can hit supereffectively for a OHKO.

Really my problem is still hit and run dragon attacks boosted by band or specs that punch massive holes in anything but the most defensive ev spreads. Or random status stuff as I find it hard to incorporate heal bell. And of course the difficulty of fitting a spinner in these days.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

how defensive, i wonder? don't forget that Excadrill benefited from BW2 quite nicely, in the form of Iron Head.

+1 LO Iron Head vs 252/0 Landorus-T = 81.94% - 96.86% (58.97% chance to OHKO after SR)
+1 LO Iron Head vs 252/252+ Landorus-T = 58.12% - 68.59% (don't forget the 30% flinch chance!)
+0 LO Iron Head vs 4/0 Breloom = 88.17% - 104.20% (58.97% chance to OHKO after SR)
+2 LO Iron Head vs 252/184+ Gliscor = 70.34% - 83.05%

Mind if I ask this, but are these calcs run with life orb also are they run with adamant or jolly? Don' forge Gliscor and Landorus can't even touch exadrill with an air balloon.

 

[Shouting]

I also don't think Iron Head is that amazing in terms of coverage, Although since it's STAB, it could be used as the go-to move for anything that isn't weak to Rock but immune to earthquake. Unfortunately, You're going to lose some power on things like Cress (If you're not using Tyranitar for sand that is), while Bronzong walls it more than ever before. I'd probably rather deal with getting rid of Bronzong over Gliscor before sending Excadrill out any day though.

 

[Griff]

Mind if I ask this, but are these calcs run with life orb also are they run with adamant or jolly? Don' forge Gliscor and Landorus can't even touch exadrill with an air balloon.

it says LO before the calc.
I'm wondering how EXCA gets +1?

 

[melvni]

it says LO before the calc.
I'm wondering how EXCA gets +1?

It's because of Intimidate. The calc I presume is assuming that Landorus-T is coming in after Excadrill uses Sword Dance.

 

[Tobes]

it says LO before the calc.
I'm wondering how EXCA gets +1?

Lando's Intimidate.

Anyway I've been using this on a rain team:

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Jolly 0/252/4/0/0/252
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

It's an excellent offensive pivot, being immune to Volt Switch and taking a pittance from most U-turns. It's an easy way to fit Stealth Rock onto a team, doesn't let too much set up on it, and can easily maintain momentum with U-turn. Intimidate also goes a long way in its use, helping to neuter physical threats such as Lucario, Terrakion, and Scizor. It can even be used lategame against Mamoswine so that Tornadus-T can live a -1 Ice Shard. It's not much good against fast special teams (and by that I mean rain-spam teams and to a lesser extent sun teams), but otherwise Landorus-T is fantastic at reclaiming lost momentum or forcing your opponent's down to a halt. And that base 145 Attack still hurts a lot even without a boosting item.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Actually this makes me wonder.

How is iron head Excadrill in dream world coming out?

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Milotic can take special hits better than Dusknoir can. And she can do serious damage with Ice Beam. Or a Hydro Pump in rain.

Dragon Tail is also pretty useful.

As for Jolteon, how can it switch in on anything? It's pretty frail and only resists electric attacks from Thunderus.

Milotic isn't a bad choice as a defensive pivot. With max hp and special defense, it can survive a volt switch from Rotom-W or Jolteon and simply recover. You have to choose whether you want it to be a special wall or a mixed pivot. You definitely don't want to use Hydro Pump on a defensive set though, and you don't want to use it like you would Jolteon. The problem with Milotic is that she doesn't really mesh very well in Rain, though a Rain-boosted scald can do decent damage. I recommend 252 HP/240 Def/16 SpD to maximize the hits she takes and be somewhat defensively bulky while shrugging off non-speced Rotom-W Volt Switches. Run her, but don't try to use her like a direct counter to any of the BW2 behemoths. If you want Toxic + Phazing, then you can't go wrong with her. Although lately I've found that everybody and their mother switches stuff that can't take an ice Beam into her.

 

[SlimMan]

Okay, I officially give up on trying to defend Lanturn. Being incredibly specific just gets a Pokemon bashed, I guess. Nah, jk, it's just too much trouble to respond to like 12 different people.
No one can understand the special love I share with Lanturn <3.

I've posted this before, but yeah, I agree with Excadrill still being too much for OU. Landorus-T came down from the heavens as a full-on counter to Excadrill. Trumpets were sounded to herald the entrance of another counter. Excadrill packed his bags and got already to come down to OU... then, BAM, Iron Head. With Iron Head, there is no counter for it. Period. It is checked by Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Breloom. In the past, I argued that Skarmory beat Excadrill, but that's a joke. Excadrill has the 4 aforementioned checks, and that's it. Iron Head just fixes all the issues it had, and it can't fit into OU.

PS- Doryuuzu > Excadrill

 

[SuperChillarmy]

Anyone try Durant? Now that it gets Superpower it hits a good portion of OU for huge damage. With 109 Speed, it outspeeds a good portion of OU (notably Terrakion and Thundurus-T). Then, with a solid base 109 Attack further boosted by Hustle and Hone Claws, it becomes a powerhouse. An unboosted Superpower OHKOs all variants of Heatran assuming Durant is running Life Orb. That's unboosted. The best set would be X-Scissor/Superpower/Stone Edge/Hone Claws, hitting a lot of OU super effectively. The only thing is its paper thin special bulk. Even a mediocre special attack can be deadly for Durant. However, if it gets one boost your opponent is going to lose a pokemon.

 

[Electrolyte]

Anyone try Durant? Now that it gets Superpower it hits a good portion of OU for huge damage. With 109 Speed, it outspeeds a good portion of OU (notably Terrakion and Thundurus-T). Then, with a solid base 109 Attack further boosted by Hustle and Hone Claws, it becomes a powerhouse. An unboosted Superpower OHKOs all variants of Heatran assuming Durant is running Life Orb. That's unboosted. The best set would be X-Scissor/Super-Tpower/Stone Edge/Hone Claws, hitting a lot of OU super effectively. The only thing is its paper thin special bulk. Even a mediocre special attack can be deadly for Durant. However, if it gets one boost your opponent is going to lose a pokemon.

Tornadus-T's heatwave, Lati@s HP fire, Gengars HP fire, starmies hydro pump, jolteons tbolt, the list goes on. Perhaps a scarfed variant? Hustle is quite good enough boost for this ant.

 

[SuperChillarmy]

The list goes on to what? Ofc Durant can't take a special hit, but it hits hard and outspeeds a good portion of OU.

 

[Electrolyte]

nearly everything that outspeeds the ant base stat wise can KO it, as nearly all of the pokemon 110 speed or higher are special attackers. It also is walled by common walls such as Skarmory and gliscor. (stone miss will become stone missevenmore after Hustle) It doesn't suck, but I don't think it's good enough in OU, especially with people using random HP fires nowadays.

 

[alexwolf]

nearly everything that outspeeds the ant base stat wise can KO it, as nearly all of the pokemon 110 speed or higher are special attackers. It also is walled by common walls such as Skarmory and gliscor. (stone miss will become stone missevenmore after Hustle) It doesn't suck, but I don't think it's good enough in OU, especially with people using random HP fires nowadays.

Gliscor takes 50% min from a +1 LO SE, which has around 85% accuracy after Hone Claws iirc, which means that you can either try and go for the crit chance with 8 SE, or 2hko if Gliscor doesn't run Roost (if he has he can stall you out with LO recoil).

 

[John Wallrein]

Lando's Intimidate.

Anyway I've been using this on a rain team:

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Jolly 0/252/4/0/0/252
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

It's an excellent offensive pivot, being immune to Volt Switch and taking a pittance from most U-turns. It's an easy way to fit Stealth Rock onto a team, doesn't let too much set up on it, and can easily maintain momentum with U-turn. Intimidate also goes a long way in its use, helping to neuter physical threats such as Lucario, Terrakion, and Scizor. It can even be used lategame against Mamoswine so that Tornadus-T can live a -1 Ice Shard. It's not much good against fast special teams (and by that I mean rain-spam teams and to a lesser extent sun teams), but otherwise Landorus-T is fantastic at reclaiming lost momentum or forcing your opponent's down to a halt. And that base 145 Attack still hurts a lot even without a boosting item.

I've used the same Landorus to great success as well on a rain team. The ability to take down Ninetales + Tyranitar (no Ice Beam) and add an electric immunity is a staple for any Rain team. Bringing U-turn and Intimidate to the table is icing on the cake to assist in VoltTurn teams to shuffle the opponent around. I have found that it can form a decent VoltTurn tag team with its brother in Tornadus-T as long as Stealth Rocks are out of the way. Certain new rising threats like Mamoswine break it down though with STAB Icicle Crash.

Overall I really like Landorus-T. Many have said that the original Landorus outclasses it for offensive roles, but I have found that Landorus-T can perform very well and can be placed in niche slots where Landorus wouldn't go, such as rain teams, to perform as a very good offensive threat.

 

[Electrolyte]

Gliscor takes 50% min from a +1 LO SE, which has around 85% accuracy after Hone Claws iirc, which means that you can either try and go for the crit chance with 8 SE, or 2hko if Gliscor doesn't run Roost (if he has he can stall you out with LO recoil).

alright, you got me. I must point out that there are still many counters to durant, bar Gliscor (though most variants are poison heal/protect and roostscor is becoming increasingly popular)
also, the accuracy of SE is 80%; after hustle is 64%, so if you're lcuky you can LO stall, but you're right it probably won't happen. My bad.

 

[alexwolf]

alright, you got me. I must point out that there are still many counters to durant, bar Gliscor (though most variants are poison heal/protect and roostscor is becoming increasingly popular)
also, the accuracy of SE is 80%; after hustle is 64%, so if you're lcuky you can LO stall, but you're right it probably won't happen. My bad.

Hone Claws increases accuracy.

 

[SlimMan]

Is Stone Edge even needed on Durant? Other than a few select bulky Waters (Gyarados, Jellicent, Tentacruel) I think Iron Head gives you all the coverage you need. It's weaker vs Flying types, but like Durant needed any more power anyway. Frankly, I think the extra accuracy of Iron Head would be a nice break, and you can hit a lot of Superpowers targets with it (thus saving yourself the stat drops).

Also, don't forget that Durant gets Baton Pass. Dope. But Durant is pretty much un-wallable (Superpower 2HKOes Skarm with after one Hone Claws) other than the aforementioned bulky Waters. And everything faster than Durant can probably OHKO it, so I don't know when Durant would find time to Baton Pass. It's still cool, though.

 

[bubbly]

Back to the Excadrill discussion, it looks even more broken now than it did before BW2. Sure, it will be harder to maintain Sand (although of course they have 2 inducers, Politoed will get worn down eventually). But having Iron Head reduces its list of counters to basically Bronzong and Skarmory. Bronzong is just bad, and Skarm can't actually do anything to it bar Whirlwinding for Spikes damage. Also, both have the same counters and are susceptible to Magnezone.

Garchomp though, I think deserves a retest. It won't be as effective with Rain everywhere, Landorus-T can check it okay, Tornadus and Keldeo outspeed and OHKO with HP Ice...much more manageable than Exca.

 

[Pocket]

Sand Veil issue must be resolved before we bring back Garchomp; in any case - let's not talk about what to ban / unban, since we are not at the stage yet to be talking about suspects.

 

[EonX]

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Jolly 0/252/4/0/0/252
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

It's an excellent offensive pivot, being immune to Volt Switch and taking a pittance from most U-turns. It's an easy way to fit Stealth Rock onto a team, doesn't let too much set up on it, and can easily maintain momentum with U-turn. Intimidate also goes a long way in its use, helping to neuter physical threats such as Lucario, Terrakion, and Scizor. It can even be used lategame against Mamoswine so that Tornadus-T can live a -1 Ice Shard. It's not much good against fast special teams (and by that I mean rain-spam teams and to a lesser extent sun teams), but otherwise Landorus-T is fantastic at reclaiming lost momentum or forcing your opponent's down to a halt. And that base 145 Attack still hurts a lot even without a boosting item.

Same set I've been using on my latest rain team, but with a bit more bulk at the cost of Speed (only 120 Speed EVs to outrun bulky variants of Celebi and below) to better check Terrakion, Scizor, and Techniloom (after Sleep Clause is active of course) among other various physical attackers.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Sand Veil issue must be resolved before we bring back Garchomp; in any case - let's not talk about what to ban / unban, since we are not at the stage yet to be talking about suspects.

I'm actually really excited about Rough Skin Garchomp. 108/95/85 defenses allow it to be reasonably bulky and it'll be able to run Stealth Rock, Dragon Tail, and Toxic or something. The damage'll rack up really quickly, I think.