Thanks for the rate Pocket, I'll definitely give those sets a try.
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BW OU Apocalypse (Peaked #1)
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Here are the sets for reference :d:
CB Dragonite
Dragonite @ Choice Band
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def | Adamant Nature
~ Outrage
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Fire Punch
~ Earthquake
Double Dance Terrakion
Terrakion @ Air Balloon / Life Orb / Rock Gem
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef | Jolly Nature
~ Close Combat
~ Stone Edge
~ Swords Dance
~ Rock Polish
Sub Dance Terrakion
Terrakion @ Leftovers / Life Orb
252 Atk | 252 Spe | 4 SDef | Jolly Nature
~ Close Combat
~ Stone Edge
~ Swords Dance
~ Substitute
Substitute provides status protection, eases prediction, and makes revenge-killing difficult, so it's a good set. Double Dance is slightly riskier, imo, but lets Terrakion the ability to boost both Attack and Speed (not at the same time) like Dragonite, making it harder to revenge-kill with faster mons.
CB Dragonite
Dragonite @ Choice Band
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def | Adamant Nature
~ Outrage
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Fire Punch
~ Earthquake
Double Dance Terrakion
Terrakion @ Air Balloon / Life Orb / Rock Gem
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef | Jolly Nature
~ Close Combat
~ Stone Edge
~ Swords Dance
~ Rock Polish
Sub Dance Terrakion
Terrakion @ Leftovers / Life Orb
252 Atk | 252 Spe | 4 SDef | Jolly Nature
~ Close Combat
~ Stone Edge
~ Swords Dance
~ Substitute
Substitute provides status protection, eases prediction, and makes revenge-killing difficult, so it's a good set. Double Dance is slightly riskier, imo, but lets Terrakion the ability to boost both Attack and Speed (not at the same time) like Dragonite, making it harder to revenge-kill with faster mons.
Thanks once again bro, lately sun has been a big ass so i'm still debating on replacing Terrakion with someone else and open to any other suggestions.
You could run a bulky spread on Rotom-W and give it Rain Dance. That would certainly make the lives of Chloro / Fire mons hard. I don't think going bulky would hinder this offensive team, since all Rotom-W needs is Volt Switch to rack up hazards damage and safely switch in your offensive sweepers to force more switches.
Rain Dance Rotom-W
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Thunder / Thunder Wave / Pain Split
Otherwise, Scarf Latios does a good job checking Sun teams, being faster than Modest Venusaur and spamming Draco Meteors. Latios's Psyshock + CB Nite's ESpeed should seal Volcarona's fate. Or you can trick Latios's Scarf and lock Volca into Bug Buzz, which DDNite, Gengar, and Terrakion would have no problems taking.
Scarf Latios
Latios @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spe
Timid Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf / Grass Knot
- Trick / Psyshock
Rotom-W is probably the best mon to replace Scarf Latios with. This makes you more weak to Jirachi, though, so possibly add Occa Berry on Scizor.
Heatran can single-handedly beat Sun, but your team doesn't seem to have a good way of dispatching Dugtrio, so it is hard for me to suggest. Air Balloon may work, but it's not hard for Drought players to pop it and trap it with Dugtrio.
Rain Dance Rotom-W
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Thunder / Thunder Wave / Pain Split
Otherwise, Scarf Latios does a good job checking Sun teams, being faster than Modest Venusaur and spamming Draco Meteors. Latios's Psyshock + CB Nite's ESpeed should seal Volcarona's fate. Or you can trick Latios's Scarf and lock Volca into Bug Buzz, which DDNite, Gengar, and Terrakion would have no problems taking.
Scarf Latios
Latios @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spe
Timid Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf / Grass Knot
- Trick / Psyshock
Rotom-W is probably the best mon to replace Scarf Latios with. This makes you more weak to Jirachi, though, so possibly add Occa Berry on Scizor.
Heatran can single-handedly beat Sun, but your team doesn't seem to have a good way of dispatching Dugtrio, so it is hard for me to suggest. Air Balloon may work, but it's not hard for Drought players to pop it and trap it with Dugtrio.
I really advocate the scarf Latios as something to test. It revenges sun, conkeldurr, cloyster, nite, and can actually counter enemy Rotom which will not be fun to fight against. Not sure how good scarf latios actually is, but in theory it sounds good. Also scarf DM is still really powerful, I know that from using e-belt Latios.
I'm not seeing the weakness to Sun. Stealth Rock + Spinblocker gives most sun teams an extremely hard time. I can tell you for sure though that switching the roles of Dragonite and Terrakion should pretty much eliminate all troubles with them, as now Stealth Rock deals with the Fire-abusers and your two forms of priority deal with the Chlorophyll abusers. If you do switch the roles, for Terrakion I would definitely go with Double Dance over Sub Dance, as Rock Polish wrecks the other Hyper Offense teams popping up as well as raping Sun even further.
I hate to be the guy telling you to screw creativity and go with the standard, but I really don't see what your Scizor is doing that Band can't. Roost and all the SpD especially seem very out of place, and relying on Bullet Punch alone to sweep isn't the best idea with all the rain teams and Rotoms out there. In fact basically any form of sweeping Scizor is really gonna end up being stopped by Rotom-W half the time. I really think Choice Band is just more suited for this meta.
Perhaps you could run 48 speed EVs on Deoxys-S to outrun Modest ScarfTom, as otherwise a Scizor U-turning to ScarfTom will limit you to one layer. I believe the defense that remains also conveniently barely avoids a 2HKO from Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, but I can't say for sure.
I hate to be the guy telling you to screw creativity and go with the standard, but I really don't see what your Scizor is doing that Band can't. Roost and all the SpD especially seem very out of place, and relying on Bullet Punch alone to sweep isn't the best idea with all the rain teams and Rotoms out there. In fact basically any form of sweeping Scizor is really gonna end up being stopped by Rotom-W half the time. I really think Choice Band is just more suited for this meta.
Perhaps you could run 48 speed EVs on Deoxys-S to outrun Modest ScarfTom, as otherwise a Scizor U-turning to ScarfTom will limit you to one layer. I believe the defense that remains also conveniently barely avoids a 2HKO from Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, but I can't say for sure.
Lol man, you're giving me so many interesting sets to test. This will take awhile but the result will be rewarding. Thanks once again bro :]
Scarf Latios does sounds like a good replacement but it increases more potential threats, ah well I'll give that set a shot.
This team can handle sun really well if the opponent isn't running Dugtrio + Espeon combo. That combo is really hard to break, I usually have to sacrifice Dragonite just to beat these fuckers, which results in me losing later on against Venasaur and shit. Thanks for the rate tho.
Yea the Deoxys-S set is really good. It clearly has to be the best set for him ATM.
sand isn't a problem, main one is the sun and I've been trying out prankster pokes to eliminate the weather. So far things are looking good, expect changes in the near future.
Mostwanted, u gotta try Occa berry on ur scizor...I took ur scizor, looked at it and wondered , how could i make it better...i thought Iron Plate was kind of a waste on something that already have a means in boosting its attack...
Since scizor is defensive why not a defensive item....it trolls on those hp fire douches like celebi, espeon and lati@s that could end ur sweep. It did wonders for me
Since scizor is defensive why not a defensive item....it trolls on those hp fire douches like celebi, espeon and lati@s that could end ur sweep. It did wonders for me
id definitely give occa berry another try and see how it turns out. I need Iron Plate to OHKO many threats without the boost.
This team is well built, etc, its basically flawless from the fundamental selection of pokemon at any rate.
Anyway, I would say the one place you can fuck around with this team is on Rotom-w. You don't really need to have it use Choice Scarf to be effective, so I think that if you wanted to switch to a bulkier spread it would probably be fine. You'd be much weaker to dragonite if you do that (and much much weaker to Haxorus), so maybe wow+3 attacks is the best way to go there if you do decide to switch. Hidden power ice will deal good damage to the frailer lum berry sweeper Dragonites, and will-o-wisp wrecks the rest of them.
Now this team is excellent, but I really think the weakest link is Gengar. I have played against this team many times on the ladder (and I tested it a little), and its my opinion that a lot of what Gengar may be doing for your team is spin blocking, and that outside of doing that its utility is limited.
Sub-Disable is definitely Gengar's most affective set for spin blocking, but its pretty unreliable. Both because he's so frail and because it relies on prediction to disable the right move, and thats a tricky business, better players will be less likely to 'fall' for the tricks.
There isn't much room really though, you definitely want a spin blocker, but at the same time Sub-Disable is pretty poor against stall teams, and it doesn't have the power or coverage to really blow through slower offensive teams late game. You're left relying on prediction, with a potential for all your momentum getting lost.
I would suggest that you test out LO Sub Pain-split Gengar and/or sub+3 attacks Gengar (with leftovers or Life Orb), just because they still do the spin blocking and they have some advantages over Sub-Disable.
(Also I disagree with putting scarf latios on this team, you don't need it imo. This goes double if you put a life orb on gengar)
Anyway, I would say the one place you can fuck around with this team is on Rotom-w. You don't really need to have it use Choice Scarf to be effective, so I think that if you wanted to switch to a bulkier spread it would probably be fine. You'd be much weaker to dragonite if you do that (and much much weaker to Haxorus), so maybe wow+3 attacks is the best way to go there if you do decide to switch. Hidden power ice will deal good damage to the frailer lum berry sweeper Dragonites, and will-o-wisp wrecks the rest of them.
Now this team is excellent, but I really think the weakest link is Gengar. I have played against this team many times on the ladder (and I tested it a little), and its my opinion that a lot of what Gengar may be doing for your team is spin blocking, and that outside of doing that its utility is limited.
Sub-Disable is definitely Gengar's most affective set for spin blocking, but its pretty unreliable. Both because he's so frail and because it relies on prediction to disable the right move, and thats a tricky business, better players will be less likely to 'fall' for the tricks.
There isn't much room really though, you definitely want a spin blocker, but at the same time Sub-Disable is pretty poor against stall teams, and it doesn't have the power or coverage to really blow through slower offensive teams late game. You're left relying on prediction, with a potential for all your momentum getting lost.
I would suggest that you test out LO Sub Pain-split Gengar and/or sub+3 attacks Gengar (with leftovers or Life Orb), just because they still do the spin blocking and they have some advantages over Sub-Disable.
(Also I disagree with putting scarf latios on this team, you don't need it imo. This goes double if you put a life orb on gengar)
thanks for the rate Myzozoa, i'll try lo Gengar. Currently i'm testing Sableye instead of Gengar, so far it has been turning out great. Bulky Rotom-W won't suit this team well but i'll give it a shot. Expect changes soon! Congrats on peaking #1 yourself :]
np :]
U-turn is a great bluff move on Scizor and works really good. Thanks for the rate tho.
Alright well, after playing this team a few times, there was a combination that I always used to take care of this team. Now, while I haven't faced you using this, I have faced a number of people and they kept falling to the same trick over and over.
Starmie + Scarf Landorus. Starmie alone takes out Dnite, Terra, and Gengar. Scizor has a high percent chance of being KO'd by Hydro Pump with Rocks down, and Rocks have to always be assumed down when doing calcs these days. Landorus does a chunk to a plethora of the team as well, and being able to U-Turn, you just can't rely on one mon these days to cover them, and that'd be Rotom. Rotom is taking like 25+% per U-Turn, with Rocks added in, that's atleast 37% a turn. Although you probably won't use this team again, Vaporeon is an excellent counter to both pokemon and is severely underused in todays meta. It can tank Starmie easily and even take care of ScarfLandorus without much trouble.
Now this is only assuming both mons are on the same team, which you might as well prepare for since Pokemon is a team game.
Starmie + Scarf Landorus. Starmie alone takes out Dnite, Terra, and Gengar. Scizor has a high percent chance of being KO'd by Hydro Pump with Rocks down, and Rocks have to always be assumed down when doing calcs these days. Landorus does a chunk to a plethora of the team as well, and being able to U-Turn, you just can't rely on one mon these days to cover them, and that'd be Rotom. Rotom is taking like 25+% per U-Turn, with Rocks added in, that's atleast 37% a turn. Although you probably won't use this team again, Vaporeon is an excellent counter to both pokemon and is severely underused in todays meta. It can tank Starmie easily and even take care of ScarfLandorus without much trouble.
Now this is only assuming both mons are on the same team, which you might as well prepare for since Pokemon is a team game.
hey dude i "barrowed" (stole) ur team and i have a couple suggestions :)
1. Deoxys-S
.Magic Coat < Superpower / Psycho Boost
it never helps me out and if its ur last pkmn ur screwed -___- and u have taunt. i no its for other deoxyses but i still think it aint worth it bro :/
2. Scizor
.Roost < Brickbreak
i never get to use roost cause of his speed :( and when he has full hp and he's one of my last pkmn he doesn't have any good moves that do decent damage to certain pkmn. And like u said barriers r annoying.
3. Gengar
. Disable and Substitute < T-bolt and Energy Ball
We need way more coverage on this guy! Those other attacks rarely help.
I hope I helped and u should try em out. Cant wait 4 ur response XD
1. Deoxys-S
.Magic Coat < Superpower / Psycho Boost
it never helps me out and if its ur last pkmn ur screwed -___- and u have taunt. i no its for other deoxyses but i still think it aint worth it bro :/
2. Scizor
.Roost < Brickbreak
i never get to use roost cause of his speed :( and when he has full hp and he's one of my last pkmn he doesn't have any good moves that do decent damage to certain pkmn. And like u said barriers r annoying.
3. Gengar
. Disable and Substitute < T-bolt and Energy Ball
We need way more coverage on this guy! Those other attacks rarely help.
I hope I helped and u should try em out. Cant wait 4 ur response XD
You're having these problems because you aren't using the team correctly. If you read the RMT it shows how he takes care of certain things in certain situations. Tbolt only hits Gyarados seeing he's the only water type used this gen that get's hit by x2 damage. Shadow ball is Nuetral to Rotom-w and gastrodon, and x2 against Jelli. He has other things for gastrodon anyways.
Thanks for the rate man! I do remember you using the same strategy against me on the ladder. Landorus is pretty deadly but can be taken down with some good predictions. As for Starmie it can't OHKO Scizor by Hydro Pump unless its in rain.
Lol glad you liked the team NahimC. Magic Coat is a must on Deoxys-S, since 2/5 battles have Deoxys-S leads, Magic Coat can come in handy. I do miss having an attacking move on it but it's worth it. I tried Brick Break over Roost but I really need the recovery on Scizor. Disable and Substitute helps me check so many threats to this team like Conkeldurr and etc, which Thunderbolt and Energy Ball can't do.
I'm running behind to test stuff for this team. Hopefully changes will be made by the end of tomorrow.
I'm disappointed to see that this is all it takes to get to #1 these days, considering this team is incredibly Sun weak and has no true revenge killer, meaning things like Scrafty used Dragon Dance would result in an automatic loss. As much as you love that Terrakion, his best role on the team right now would be as a revenge killer to beat Volcarona (currently, nothing on your team does, and he sets up on four of its members easily), that Scrafty I mentioned earlier, and Venusaur (you outspeed all that run a neutral speed nature). This would also free up your Rotom to run a standard Leftovers set and not have to bother with predicting whether or not a Ground-type will come in on Volt Switch, killing all of your momentum. I'm thinking you might want to do something with that Dragonite too, maybe change it into a physical attacker that can beat Gliscor 1-on-1, like Cloyster, but he doesn't add any defensive synergy to the team.
Overall two-things:
1.) Needs a revenge killer
2.) More prep for Sun
I'm not sure how you'll handle #2, considering 'countering Sun teams' is next to impossible (you also claimed Band Terrakion did that in your rate but uh...no), but Scarf Terrakion will keep Volcarona from sweeping for free and keeps Scarf Darmanitan and Venusaur in line, so it's something. See if you can test out that Cloyster anyway; I see him setting up all over Dugtrio and whomping entire Sun teams after one turn of setup.
Overall two-things:
1.) Needs a revenge killer
2.) More prep for Sun
I'm not sure how you'll handle #2, considering 'countering Sun teams' is next to impossible (you also claimed Band Terrakion did that in your rate but uh...no), but Scarf Terrakion will keep Volcarona from sweeping for free and keeps Scarf Darmanitan and Venusaur in line, so it's something. See if you can test out that Cloyster anyway; I see him setting up all over Dugtrio and whomping entire Sun teams after one turn of setup.