Aggron: No longer the retarded child of Rhydon and Registeel

[Bologo]

It's true, he's not. Aggron is back with a new purpose in life thanks to HG/SS additions.

I know that we don't usually make threads to discuss a single Pokemon, but I felt that Aggron deserved his own thread, since he was taking up most of the discussion space in the Competitive HGSS thread. Plus, a Pokemon hasn't changed this much from one move since our good pal Scizor.

Anyway, just to set a few ground rules here so this doesn't get disorganized and locked as a result:

- Please actually read the OP and other posts in the thread. I don't want people repeating sets and going in circles, and asking questions that have already been answered. I don't like repeating myself to people, and I'm sure no one else does either, so do us a favour and read.

- If you're going to discuss Aggron, then please make sure you know the basic stuff about him, like his abilities, stats, and typing. This should be self-explanatory, but I don't think anyone feels like having a discussion about Aggron's Head Smash only to have someone say it's going to give massive recoil damage...

Alright, so now that we have that cleared up, let's get to the meat of the thread.

--

The reason that Aggron has been hyped up so much, and has miraculously lived up to the large hype is his brand new STAB move:

Head Smash: 150 BP, 225 BP with STAB, 80% accurate move that gives 50% recoil normally, but thanks to Aggron's ability - Rock Head - recoil damage is nulled.

Since Head Smash is his main attacking move, which has the same accuracy and PP as his STAB Stone Edge, it means that he's hitting 50% harder with no drawback whatsoever. As you can imagine this has made him go from a mediocre NU to being viable in NU, UU, and even OU (though I have not tried him in Ubers).

Just for clarification, this means that his 0 Atk Head Smash actually hits much harder than his 252 Atk (Adamant) Stone Edge, which is quite a gain.

--

While Aggron is currently in the lower tiers of play, and does very well there, he's ironically a lot better in OU play. Here are the reasons why (thanks to itsbigfoot for lots of these reasons):

- In UU, there are a lot more Ground, Water, and Fighting Pokemon - all of which can bring the pain to Aggron with their STABs --> while these pokemon do exist in OU, they're not as abundant

- Fighting and Water priority are a lot more common in UU, but are almost non-existant in OU (with the exceptions of Infernape, Breloom, and Empoleon [who doesn't do very much damage with Aqua Jet])

- Poliwrath, Quagsire, and Gastrodon - all very good counters to Aggron, are all UU and are therefore not seen very much in OU --> Swampert and Bronzong are the best counters in OU (and neither has reliable recovery), other than that, a check is needed

- Dragon, Ice, and Steel moves are VERY common in OU, and are all easy switch-ins for Aggron

- Sandstorm support is very easy to provide in OU, but is a pain in UU --> It's not recommended that Tyranitar be used as a partner though, since they share all the same weaknesses. Hippowdon is a much better partner with one shared weakness that's easy to resist --> The Special Defense boost is easy to abuse because of Aggron's specially-oriented set of resistances

--

These are some of the viable sets that have blossomed due to the addition of Head Smash in OU (thanks to everyone who has come up with set ideas so far):

Rock Polish #1 (Life Orb + 3 attacks)

Aggron @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Rock Head
29 HP IV

- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake

This setup is very simple and doesn't even require Sandstorm to be effective (though it doesn't mind having it), meaning that it's a lot easier to stick on a team than a majority of Aggron's sets. Just come in on a resist from a Choice user or something (or something you can force out), Polish up, and sweep. These EVs allow Aggron to reach 398 Speed after one Rock Polish, meaning that he outspeeds all base 130s, and as such, pretty much any non-Choice Scarf user that could actually threaten him. the 29 HP IV puts Aggron at 279 HP, allowing for more efficient use of Life Orb, and max Attack should be self-explanatory. Stealth Rock support is a must with this set, since it allows Aggron to get many KOs that it couldn't get without it.

Just so we're clear here, a max Attack CB Rampardos Stone Edge is only hitting ~3% harder than this Aggron's Head Smash, which goes to show that it's hitting like a truck. Even Skarmory is 2HKOed, which is pretty impressive considering that there's no Attack boosting besides Life Orb.

A Choice Scarf Latias may be a very good idea on a team with LO Polish Aggron, because Choice Scarf Flygon and Heatran are very common, and they're still faster than Aggron after the Polish. Scarf Latias can take both down with Dragon Pulse and Surf, greatly helping out Aggron's sweep.

Rock Polish #2 (Sub + Liechi)

Rock Polish Aggron is actually a beast, I used a set like this, it works out very similar to SubPetaya Empoleon. Credits go to a friend of mine on Shoddy who gave me the basis of this set.

Substitute + Rock Polish

Aggron@ Leichi Berry
Rock Head
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe (still working on a good EV spread!)
~Substitute
~Rock Polish
~Head Smash
~Earthquake

With many resistances and a massive 180 base Defense stat, you will find it is very easy to get Aggron in. The idea is to come into Physical attackers and get a Substitute up. If you come into a Choiced locked Pokemon like CBTar locked into Pursuit, even better. Once you are safely behind a Substitute, you can Rock Polish up. Using the EVs provided, a Rock Polish boost gets you an amazing 398 Speed stat, enough to outrun a Max Speed Aerodactyl! Once you are comfortable with your +2 Speed, you can Substitute down to grab your last boost and start firing off STAB Head Smashes(with no recoil!). After a Leichi Berry boost, you reach 525 attack. At 25% health, +2 Speed, and a Leichi Boost, the only thing Aggron must worry about are Scarfers and the rare users of Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch.

I myself don't have experience with this set, so I just quoted Witness, and I'm assuming it works as well as he says it does.

Choice Band

Aggron @Choice Band
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
Rock Head

- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
- Iron Head / Toxic

This set doesn't require Sandstorm support, but it really appreciates it because it has to constantly switch in, unlike the Polish sweeper which only has to switch in once. Even though Aggron does have a lot of Special resists, it'll still be taking a lot from even resisted hits with that poor Special Defense.

Basically, the premise of this set is to blow holes in the opponent's team to set up a sweep with someone else. Head Smash reaches ridiculously high power, outdamaging CB Rampardos's Stone Edge by quite a large amount now (~11.5%), meaning that even dedicated physical walls will have tons of trouble taking even one hit. Earthquake gets rid of Steels while Aqua Tail gets rid of Hippowdon. Iron Head is ok for STAB, and if you want to kill off Breloom in one hit since he resists all of your other attacks. However, Toxic can work too, as it will cripple a lot of switch-ins such as fully defensive Gliscor, who can stall out Head Smash due to being faster.

Once again, something like Latias works pretty well with this set, or even Celebi. They can both provide some nice parasupport for Aggron, and have little to no trouble with either Swampert or Bronzong (in Celebi's case). Scizor also works pretty well with CB Aggron, since the U-turn support can help Aggron come in and force a switch to fire off a Head Smash to whatever comes in. CB Aggron is still pretty slow (though it at least outspeeds Skarmory), so it really does appreciate the parasupport.

SubRise

Aggron @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 120 HP/252 Atk/132 Spe/4 SpD
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Magnet Rise
- Head Smash
- Earthquake

I've done some more Aggron testing, and this time I decided to give LR's SubRise set a try.

Granted, I modified it a bit for OU play, but it's still the same concept. Basically, the changes I made were Earthquake over Focus Punch and the EV spread is 120 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe / 4 SpD with an Adamant nature. This isn't much of a change from LR's spread, but it allows Aggron to outspeed the standard 8 Spe Scizor so you can OHKO it before it hits you, and although I could have dumped all of the excess into HP, I didn't want to because 312 HP is an SR number, so I put it the last 4 EVs in SpD.

Basically, this set does need Sand support to be effective, preferably from Hippowdon because Aggron and Tyranitar share far too many weaknesses. The Sandstorm support really does help it switch in on its many resistances, and with a ton of pokemon running Choice items, it's not hard to come in and set up a Sub. Once you have that Sub up, you can either Rise or Smash the switch-in. Either way, you'll be screwing something over. Earthquake is for the many Steel-types in OU. Focus Punch isn't really that good against them because a lot of them are part-Psychic, and the extra prediction that Focus Punch requires isn't necessary. If you really want to guarantee that OHKO against Tyranitar, use Low Kick, which is a lot more useful in OU than Focus Punch since Fighting-weaks are pretty heavy there.

As LR said in his description of the set, there are a lot of pokemon that simply rely on Ground moves to kill Aggron, since Ground moves are a lot more accessible than Fighting and Water move (non-STAB ones at least). This applies to OU too, as shown by Earthquake being the most used move in the tier. Once Aggron has used Magnet Rise, it becomes a lot harder to kill him, while he's got no problem killing things.

I actually like this set more than the Choice Band one, because most of the time this one's firing off two hits if you play your cards right. And not surprisingly, with max Attack and a 150 BP STAB move, those two hits often mean two kills (or at least very close to a kill). The Substitute is also extremely helpful in keeping the grim reaper away. It not only protects from status, but it protects from Intimidate and annoying crap like Magnezone, Infernape, and Dugtrio, which are easily killed with either Earthquake or Head Smash (though it's generally better to pick the less risky one if you can afford to!).

Basically, from what I've seen so far in my Aggron testing in OU is that if you want an Aggron that doesn't need Sand support to be effective, use the Rock Polish one. If you want one that's bulky but can dish out lots of damage (though they need Sand support for the bulky part!), use CB or SubRise. :]

I didn't feel like explaining this one again since it takes a bit more explaining than the other sets, so I'll just put what I said in the other thread and leave it at that.

--

Still needs testing: Special Defensive Tank, Curse

--

Note: While he is a much better Pokemon now, he is definitely not without his cons. The biggest con is Head Smash's unfortunate accuracy. 80% is not bad by any means, especially with that much power behind the attack, but it means that it does have a 1 in 5 chance of missing, and there are times where it misses when you need it to hit the most. Hopefully when Zoom Lens gets implimented (when shoddy battle 2 comes out), the accuracy won't be as much of a worry since Aggron is pretty slow and it raises its accuracy to 96%. Secondly, bad Special Defense do mean that he needs some Sand support for his bulkier sets, because without it, he's going to find it very hard to live even through some resisted hits, especially without reliable recovery. Also, he does need some support to cover the 4x weaks that he has, especially since they're pretty common attacking types (then again, what pokemon doesn't need support to cover their weaks?).

--

Ok, so that was only for OU. I don't play the other tiers very much (maybe UU very rarely), so I can't really give much insight on them. However, it's that kind of stuff we're having a discussion for.

Let's discuss Aggron's potential in each tier and possibly test out any new sets that may have blossomed from his new Head Smash. I'm sure there are a couple of good sets that I've missed for OU, and there are probably a ton of new sets for UU and NU, or hell, even Ubers (though don't count on it). At the very least, we'll be able to stop interrupting everyone else's discussions in the HGSS thread with this thread. :P

 

[Orcelot005]

Here's an interesting set that I found while looking through the New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. It was posted by fmsYEAH. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, because Shoddy isn't working properly for me at the moment, but I'm defiantly going to test it when I get the chance.

On the Magnet Rise Aggron, here's something I find useful in OU:

Aggron @ Stone Plate
Rock Head
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
- Toxic
- Head Smash
- Earthquake/Aqua Tail
- Magnet Rise

With the Stone Plate, you can fake CBAggron by spamming Head Smash initially, seeing what your opponent will bring out to counter Aggron. A Stone Plate boosted Head Smash still outdamages CBtar's Stone Edge, so you can still expect a lot of power out of your attack. Max Atk to make Head Smash as strong as possible, the Speed EVs allow you to outspeed 16 Speed Skarmory, and the rest pump his HP up. The idea is to fake CB and Head Smash first, see what your opponent brings out and work from there.

If your opponent uses Hippowdon, it's pretty safe to Magnet Rise here, as you'll outspeed and Hippowdon will likely Earthquake. As Hippowdon will never run a Fighting/Water move, you can Toxic him here and have no problems dealing with it from there.

Swampert is a bit trickier, as it can use Surf/Hydro Pump to easily KO you. Waterfall also does well, but it should be noted a 0 Atk Waterfall deals only 38.54% - 45.18% to this Aggron, so it can be dealt with in situations. Like Hippowdon, Swampert is outsped and gets hit by Toxic before launching his attack. Many ways you can approach this, but it's not too difficult to get the Toxic in, and you win once that's done.

Gliscor is the only Ground type that will always outspeed you, and with Roost, can tank your Head Smashes easily. Once you get a Magnet Rise in, Gliscor doesn't become much of a problem. Once his primary STAB is gone, the rest of his offensive moves are a joke, so feel free to Toxic him here. After the initial switch in, you can expect Gliscor to come back the next two times, so feel free to Toxic/Magnet Rise the next chance Aggron gets.

You can't do shit to Bronzong. Resists HS, immune to Toxic, your other attacks doing lousy damage; it's just bad all around. He can't do much to you in terms of damage, but he can just set up for his team on you, so avoid him like the plague.

Head Smash 2HKOs 252/176 +Def Skarmory holding Shed Shell 100% of the time without Stealth Rock up (so 64% if you account for accuracy problems). You'll outspeed Skarmory unless they run more than 16 Speed EVs, so Skarmory is easily dealt with. This also means Forry will get 2HKO'd the same way.

Magnezone is kinda mixed. The Sub/MR variants pretty much rape you. You can beat Scarf variants if Aggron is at a healthy amount of HP, sand is up, and it's not some weird one running HP Ground for Heatran. Specs variants are on the same page, though ones running Modest do have a chance to OHKO with T-bolt. The Rock typing actually serves Aggron well against Zone, getting a SpDef from Sandstorm and taking neutral from HP Fire.

You have a 16% chance to 2HKO 252/0 Machamp after SR, going up to 64% with Sandstorm up as well. Risky to say the least.

Flygon can survive one Head Smash, but that's it. If Aggron gets Magnet Rise up, Flygon can't do much outside Fire Blast, but he needs significant investment to SpAtk or run Life Orb to 2HKO.

Lucario is 3HKO'd by Head Smash, so he can come in and try setting up for a sweep or go straight to a Fighting attack. Easy to predict honestly.

248/0 Scizor is OHKO'd by Head Smash after SR ~76% of the time (61% with accuracy). If it runs just enough Speed EVs to outrun Aggron, then the chance to OHKO increases to ~98% (78% with accuracy). So most will be forced to Bullet Punch, which will deal 32.56% - 38.54%, a 3HKO at best.

252/252 +Def Suicune takes 47.03% - 55.20% from Head Smash. At this point, most will likely Surf/Rest, so one can take advantage of that, since this is almost a free switch. Aggron unfortunately gets outsped here, so no 2HKO chance, unless it runs Ice Beam over Surf.

252/252 +Def Celebi is 2HKO'd 100% of the time with SR up, though offensive variants can really fuck Aggron up with Grass Knot/Leaf Storm. Defensive Celebi 2HKOs with both GK and LS, so you don't have to fear getting one-shotted; GK can become a 3HKO with sand up too.

Cresselia can take Head Smashes quite well, moreso if she runs Reflect. Can't do much but T-wave Aggron though; Psychic and Ice Beam are resisted and Toxic does nothing. If Cressy doesn't run Rest/Sleep Talk, Aggron wins out.

And so on. He's hard to stop once he gets in, and he has some nice resistances he can switch in on. This has been a concept I've been thinking about for a while, but I haven't actually tried this out yet. Looks good on paper though.

 

[chenman333]

I've been using Aggron and Lucario on the same team. Granted, its not so hot in that they have exactly the same weaknesses and the rest of the team needs to heavily undo that, but they have some sweet offensive synergy. Lucario can blast most of the bulky grounds and hurt Gliscor enough so that Aggron can just kill them off with Aqua Tail when he comes in later, making his sweep relatively easy. Stuff like Zapdos, Gyarados, and Salamence obviously have no shot.

Of course, I've needed a lot of support in terms of having ground immunities/resists and fighting/eq immunities/resists. Gyarados, Salamence, Rotom, Latias, and Celebi are all pretty helpful though.

 

[Neonian]

I prefer running 132 speed EVs on CB aggron to outspeed 8 speed adamant scizor, who can't do anything except superpower aggron, and even then head smash OHKOs before it has a chance to use it.
The CB set is my favorite of all his possible sets for the sole fact that it can 2hko just about everything, minus a few bulky grounds and steels, It deals about 70% to the standard restalk machamp, 40% to lucario and OHKOs most things that don't resist it.

EDIT: I also consider aggron to be the love child of tyranitar and metagross.

 

[itsbigfoot]

for the CB set

Aggron @Choice Band
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
Rock Head

- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch / Toxic / Aqua Tail

this works better, as the evs still allow you to survive a boosted waterfall from bulky gyara but also allow you to outspeed vaporeon and Base 75s who don't invest in speed (Claydol comes to mind as a hard counter). Ice Punch hits Flygon, Gliscor and Breloom for OHKOs, and the last slot is up to preference. Fire Punch only hits Bronzong, Forretress and Skarmories that invest in enough speed to outrun you and roost stall Head Smash, Toxic takes down the few Bulky Waters that can wall you (Swampert, Suicune, maybe Slowbro) as well as the Bulky Grounds (Hippowdon, Rhyperior and the UU grounds) and Aqua Tail hits Rhyperior and Hippowdon harder than everything else.

The main problem with Aqua Tail is that it only hits two pokemon harder than your other attacks, as a neutral Head Smash will hit harder than a SE Aqua Tail, so it only really takes effect on pokes 4x weak to water (Rhyperior) or Bulky Grounds who aren't 4x weak to ice (Hippowdon)

the 4th option really depends on your team. Fire punch makes all your counters weak to grass knot, so its best to run on a team with a grass knot user like celebi. Aqua Tail takes care of most bulky grounds, but leaves your walled by Bronzong and very fast Skarmory, so it's best to use with a good Swampert counter and Magnezone. Toxic leaves you walled by the same two steels, but gets rid of bulky waters/grounds, albeit slowly, it's best for use on bulkier teams with pokes like Gliscor and Vaporeon.

Just my thoughts on the CB set

 

[blasphemy1]

My favorite sets so far are the CB set and fmsYEAH's take on the Magnet Rise set. The CB set is very effective, especially with sand/spikes support. For this reason, I like it on balanced teams, with a Roserade lead(to set up Toxic Spikes so bulky grounds can't keep switching in), Hippowdon, and Forretress(Spikes). With no EVs at all, he achieves a special defense stat of 234 in the sand, almost as much as 0 neutral base 100s. This allows him to switch into Latias(after special attack drop), Scarf Gengar, and quite a few other special attackers.

The Magnet Rise + Toxic combination destroys bulky grounds by itself, allowing you to run something like bulky DD Nite(these two pair up so well), as coincidentally, Aggron also lures in a lot of bulky waters.

Like Neonian said, I also like to think of him as the child of Tyranitar and Metagross.

 

[TheMantyke]

Yes, Aggron is such a dreamboat now with Headsmash. My personal favorite moveset is the Substitute Magnet Rise set, although I run a lot more speed to outpace the standard Choice Band Tyranitar and Skarmory. I recently made a team that focuses around him and I experimented with a few teammates. These guys impressed me the most.

Hippowdon- This one's been discussed a lot already. Hippowdon provides Aggron with a 1.5 Special Defense boost, a Rock Resist, and all the residual damage Aggron could ever need. If the team itself focuses around Aggron, then Hippowdon is pretty much almost required.

Latias- Latias perfectly covers Aggron's weaknesses and he covers hers in return. The speed she offers is nice, and both really enjoy setting up on each others counters.

Celebi- Aggron and Celebi together is probably the most fun I've ever had with Celebi. The Swords Dance passer sets up Substitute Aggron and Magnet Rising Aggron really well. To top that off, both of them cover their partners weaknesses near perfectly, only having a problem with Fire Type assaults and Scizor.

Rotom-A- Unlike Latias and Celebi, Rotom-A doesn't make the pair sitting scizor bait. I've found the best choices to be Rotom-H and Rotom-C, Rotom-C plows through the ground types Aggron hates, but Rotom-H deals with Scizor and other steel types that Aggron really doesn't enjoy. Thanks to Levitate and Rotom's Ghost typing, Aggron never needs to fear Machamp or Lucario ruining his day.

 

[Neonian]

Yes, Aggron is such a dreamboat now with Headsmash. My personal favorite moveset is the Substitute Magnet Rise set, although I run a lot more speed to outpace the standard Choice Band Tyranitar and Skarmory. I recently made a team that focuses around him and I experimented with a few teammates. These guys impressed me the most.

Hippowdon- This one's been discussed a lot already. Hippowdon provides Aggron with a 1.5 Special Defense boost, a Rock Resist, and all the residual damage Aggron could ever need. If the team itself focuses around Aggron, then Hippowdon is pretty much almost required.

Latias- Latias perfectly covers Aggron's weaknesses and he covers hers in return. The speed she offers is nice, and both really enjoy setting up on each others counters.

Celebi- Aggron and Celebi together is probably the most fun I've ever had with Celebi. The Swords Dance passer sets up Substitute Aggron and Magnet Rising Aggron really well. To top that off, both of them cover their partners weaknesses near perfectly, only having a problem with Fire Type assaults and Scizor.

Rotom-A- Unlike Latias and Celebi, Rotom-A doesn't make the pair sitting scizor bait. I've found the best choices to be Rotom-H and Rotom-C, Rotom-C plows through the ground types Aggron hates, but Rotom-H deals with Scizor and other steel types that Aggron really doesn't enjoy.

This is something else I wanted to mention;

Aggron LOVES psychics by his side, especially tricksters.
One of the neat things about aggron is that he can come in on choiced pokemon and set up with no questions asked, psychics and ghosts (especially levitators) with trick cover all his weaknesses and in turn he resists all theirs, meaning that they can be tricked into an SE move and then bring in aggron and either set up with sub+rise or devastate with CB head smash.

Aggron does not like vaporeon, however.
Vaporeons wish may seem like a great support move for aggron giving him much more survivability but aggron can't switch in on anything aimed at vaporeon, since any STAB 95 power neutral special attack coming off more than 372 SpA (not including life orb) has a good chance of OHKOing aggron.
This means that aggron has a very small chance of being able to take on the jolteons and celebis that have fun with vaporeon and therefore switching aggron in from vaporeon is a death sentence.

(Not to advertise, but I've also built an OU aggron team, you can see it in the RMT forum)

 

[franky]

Aggron meshes much better in UU with the right support. Sure there are plenty Ground-types in that tier, but this where team support comes in, lures, toxic spikes, etc. In OU, Aggron is just overwhelmed by the offense and doesn't have much space to come in and use a CB Head Smash. It feels like it only gets 1-2 Head Smash's throughout the course of the match because the offense / power in OU is crazy compared to UU.

 

[Neonian]

I disagree, Aggron has plently of space to come in on things in OU, like choiced pokemon and scizor. It's troubled in UU because of all the vacuum waves, ground types and bulky waters in that tier.

 

[franky]

I disagree, Aggron has plently of space to come in on things in OU, like choiced pokemon and scizor. It's troubled in UU because of all the vacuum waves, ground types and bulky waters in that tier.

Vacumm Wave is only ever seen by Toxicroak, and Aggron can bypass bulky waters with a CB set with much ease. Slowbro and Milotic are 2HKOed by Head Smash, if they decide to come in. Donphan is a good counter, and that's only it. Actually, it only has a few counters in UU as suppose to the stronger OU metagame where finding time to get an attack up is difficult or should I say 'much harder than UU'

 

[Neonian]

Again, I disagree. Aggron's only real counters in OU are hippo, swampert and rhyperior, the latter of which is very uncommon. Milotic outspeeds aggron and OHKO's it with surf in UU, quagsire, whiscash and gastrodon also give aggron trouble in UU, and i'm sure there are a few more bulky grounds that aggron's scared of in UU.

 

[franky]

Again, I disagree. Aggron's only real counters in OU are hippo, swampert and rhyperior, the latter of which is very uncommon. Milotic outspeeds aggron and OHKO's it with surf in UU, quagsire, whiscash and gastrodon also give aggron trouble in UU, and i'm sure there are a few more bulky grounds that aggron's scared of in UU.

Those are pretty common. Milotic doesn't outspeed Aggron, 252 / 252 Def Milotic is bod standard in UU and Aggron can outpace it by putting some EVs into Speed.

Quagsire, Whiscash, Gastrodon are practically rare in the UU tier, so I don't know where you pulled these guys from. The only Ground-type you will see is Donphan and Dugtrio. Donphan being the best check, Dugtrio dying to a CB Head Smash.

 

[Mountain Dewgong]

I've been using Celebi to pass SD's to Rock Polish Aggron to great success, this is pretty much best case scenario though:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
Mountain Dewgong sent out Mamoswine (lvl 100 Mamoswine ).
K A R M A sent out Hephaestus (lvl 100 Metagross).
K A R M A: gl
Mountain Dewgong: You too.
K A R M A switched in Hades (lvl 100 Rotom-c).
Hades makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
Mamoswine's attack missed!

Mamoswine used Protect.
Mamoswine protected itself!
Hades used Will-o-wisp.
Mamoswine protected itself!

Mountain Dewgong switched in Celebi (lvl 100 Celebi).
Hades used Thunderbolt.
It's not very effective...
Celebi lost 14% of its health.
Celebi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Celebi restored 6% of its health.

K A R M A switched in Hephaestus (lvl 100 Metagross).
Celebi used Substitute.
Celebi lost 25% of its health.
Celebi made a substitute!
Celebi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Celebi restored 6% of its health.

Celebi used Swords Dance.
Celebi's attack was sharply raised.
Hephaestus used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Celebi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Celebi restored 6% of its health.

Celebi used Baton Pass.
Mountain Dewgong switched in Aggron (lvl 100 Aggron ).
Pointed stones dug into Aggron.
Aggron lost 6% of its health.
Hephaestus used Meteor Mash.
The substitute took damage for Aggron!
Aggron's substitute faded!

K A R M A switched in Hades (lvl 100 Rotom-c).
Aggron used Rock Polish.
Aggron's speed was sharply raised.

Aggron used Head Smash.
Hades lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Hades fainted.
Aggron lost 10% of its health.

Mountain Dewgong: Hmmm.
K A R M A switched in Hermes (lvl 100 Porygon2).
Hermes traced Aggron's Rock Head!
K A R M A: well now lol
Aggron used Head Smash.
Hermes lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Hermes fainted.
Aggron lost 10% of its health.

Mountain Dewgong: Aggron for OU.
K A R M A switched in Achilles (lvl 100 Lucario ).
K A R M A: haha yea xD gg
Aggron used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Achilles lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Achilles fainted.
Aggron lost 10% of its health.

K A R M A switched in Hephaestus (lvl 100 Metagross).
Aggron used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Hephaestus lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Hephaestus fainted.
Aggron lost 10% of its health.

K A R M A switched in Ares (lvl 100 Hariyama ).
Aggron used Head Smash.
It's not very effective...
Ares lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Ares fainted.
Aggron lost 10% of its health.

K A R M A switched in Hera (lvl 100 Latias ).
Aggron used Head Smash.
Hera lost 100% of its health.
K A R M A's Hera fainted.
Mountain Dewgong wins!
Mountain Dewgong: Gg
K A R M A has left the room.

Edit: Three more battles ending in a similar fashion to this. I'm starting to really like my team, though starmie leads royally fuck it over.

 

[blasphemy1]

Let's not forget about Torterra, who is only afraid of Ice Punch(and Iron Tail). Aggron's weaknesses are more easily covered in OU than UU, with pokemon like Latias, Dragonite, Salamence, Gengar, Gyarados, Celebi, Rotom-A, etc, covering both of them. Overall, life is much harder in UU for Aggron than in OU.

@ franky: Again, Torterra, except the fact that you say "only" is extremely irritating. I wouldn't exclude the #30th most used UU. As for pokemon that can easily take a CB Head Smash: Steelix, Registeel, Hitmontop, Claydol, Donphan, Torterra, Hariyama, Tangrowth, and Weezing. The latter two of which should switch in after something dies, or on anything else except Head Smash if you are directly switching to them. Now, pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Aggron: Roserade, Milotic, Mismagius, Yanmega, Ambipom, Honchkrow, Blaziken, Dugtrio, Hitmontop, Azumarill, Arcanine, Moltres, and Houndoom. That is only the top 20, I won't even waste my team continuing. While OU has plenty of pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO, very few can afford to switch into Head Smash, outspeed, and OHKO.

 

[Bologo]

franky, Aggron is actually very good in OU, though IMO, the Choice Band set isn't nearly as good in OU than in UU (though some people would probably beg to differ there). The SubRise or Rock Polish set, from my testing seem to be the best bet there. With Choice Band, a miss from Head Smash can be very bad, since Aggron most likely won't be fast enough to try again and will be forced to switch; it can't really sweep in OU. However, with SubRise, it's protected from a lot of the stuff that would normally kill it.

You're right, the CB set only really gets to throw out 2 or so Head Smashes without Wish or Sandstorm support. But if those 2 Head Smashes actually connect, something(s) has lost either a gigantic chunk, or all of their health.

I'm not completely sure about this, but from the sounds of it, it seems like people are using CB Aggron in UU for sweeping. However, that's most definitely not how it works in OU. CB Aggron isn't for sweeping in OU, it's more a supporting role. It tries to take out the big walls that the sweepers on the team need eliminated so they can have a cleansweep. And CB Aggron does a pretty good job of that, since it's actually faster than a lot of those walls when it invests in Speed.

Neonian, Milotic gets annihilated by Aggron if it switches into him, so it's most definitely not a counter. Also, Poliwrath is more of a counter than the other 3.

 

[fmsYEAH]

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only person who thought Aggron's beast enough to reach OU.

I'd like to note that a connected +1 Head Smash is pretty much killing anything that doesn't resist it. Look at 248/0 Scizor getting OHKO'd by a physical attack 100% of the time with SR up, and it's not even a Super Effective hit.

 

[Witnessed]

Aggron Fan Club itt

Glad to see a thread like this. Nice to see my set in here aswell! Today I have swept like twenty teams using SubLeichi(didn't save an logs guys, sorry). I like using Aggron a lot. I paired it up with Zapdos and I found it to be a very, very good partner for Aggron, for Zapdos eliminates bulky waters easily or can spread paralysis. I have found Hitmontop to be a good counter to Aggron because it can switch in to Rock Polish sets, intimidate it or threaten it with it's STAB Technician Mach Punch. Swampert works in the similar fashion.

I have used a Curse Aggron and I don't find it very viable. You need to eliminate basically any special attacker on the field otherwise your going to get obliterated before you can even get a single Curse. I used a set like this.

Curse + 3 Attacks
Aggron@ Leftovers
Rock Head
Adamant
252 HP/80 Atk/176 SpD
~Curse
~Head Smash
~Earthquake
~Fire Punch/Aqua Tail

Just my two cents, but it does not work at all. This thing is good at one thing though; making Bronzong more set up bait than it already is >.>

I think viability depends on what tier you are using it in. In UU, Choice Band sets seem to work better whereas in OU Rock Polish works well. I feel SubRise works great in both tiers.

Yes, without a doubt Aggron is a massive threat if you play your cards right and use it correctly. It needs proper team support and a good set. Keep up all the good work!

 

[Garganator]

I have used a Curse Aggron and I don't find it very viable. You need to eliminate basically any special attacker on the field otherwise your going to get obliterated before you can even get a single Curse. I used a set like this.

Curse + 3 Attacks
Aggron@ Leftovers
Rock Head
Adamant
252 HP/80 Atk/176 SpD
~Curse
~Head Smash
~Earthquake
~Fire Punch/Aqua Tail[

I'm not sure about EVs, but I would go for Metal Burst + Curse combination, if I would ever run Curse Aggron set. With his titanic 180 basic defence and Curse boost, I think he can survive some heavy physical hits to surprise those cocky bulky grounds like Hippowdon or Swampert.

Those are pretty common. Milotic doesn't outspeed Aggron, 252 / 252 Def Milotic is bod standard in UU and Aggron can outpace it by putting some EVs into Speed.

Aggron needs max speed to outspeed Max/Max Milotic by 1 point. But even if Milotic run few speed EVs, it may still be killed in one shot (15% to OHKO with SR up). Anyway, even if that Milotic survives, it must Recover giving a free switch in for something else like Venusaur/Roserade or if it attacks, it's as good as dead with tiny bit of HP points. So yeah, Milotic is pretty poor idea of switch on Aggron.

I also love this set:
Aggron @ Stone Plate
Rock Head
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
- Toxic
- Head Smash
- Earthquake/Aqua Tail
- Magnet Rise

It's a really good check against few counters, which troubles that Aggron. And still, even with Stone Plate, it still hits really hard. I think it's probably even better then standard SubPuncher with Head Smash/Focus Punch or Low Kick/Substitute/Toxic, but I still keep my opinion, that SubPuncher with three attacks or 2 attacks + status deserves a mention in opening post. It plays a bit different then Magnet Riser and I think it's fine even without Sandstorm, and it's a really good stall-breaker, which can stay on battlefield for a while, if played right. And unlike Magnet Riser, it doesn't mind that much Roar on Hippo and Swampert, which easily make that Magnet Rise worthless.

 

[EvilMario]

I would like to try Curse and Magnet Rise later, but as of now, I've used both Rock Polish and Choice Band.

Rock Polish has be subpar for me thus far. Even with Life Orb, I just find it difficult to outspeed and KO what I require. Prehaps I needed to open more holes, but I found it underwhelming as a setup sweeper. His ability to resist Extreme Speed and take neutral damage from Bullet Punch has its perks though.

Choice Band was another story; I found it very effective, and very scary. Pokemon that resist it have trouble switching in. Only deticated physical walls with Recovery, ala, Hippowdan want to have anything to do with it. Even then, Aqua Tail can cause a world of pain. I found it more benefical to spam Head Smash early though, just to see what 'Counters' they had. I think Choice Band will definitely see the most OU play.

 

[Lee]

I'm not sure about EVs, but I would go for Metal Burst + Curse combination, if I would ever run Curse Aggron set. With his titanic 180 basic defence and Curse boost, I think he can survive some heavy physical hits to surprise those cocky bulky grounds like Hippowdon or Swampert.

It'll be a mildly inconvenient surprise at best though. Remember Metal Burst strikes back at 1.5x, not 2x. So the scenario will go like this.

Foe switched in Hippowdon
Aggron used Curse!
sandstorm blah
Hippowdon used Earthquake!
Aggron lost 59% of its health! (assuming 252/0 +1)
Aggron used Metal Burst!
Hippowdon lost 72% of its health! (assuming 252 HP)
sandstorm blah
Hippowdon used Slack Off!

Metal Burst may have uses somewhere, but I don't think it's there. If you're concerned about Bulky Grounds just use Toxic or Choice Band Aqua Tail (deals 50% on avg to standard Hippowdon). I also wouldn't give Swampert too much credit as an Aggron counter...401 HP/297 Def MixPert loses up to 41% of his health from CB Head Smash meaning he can only safely switch in once.

Another interesting calculation to consider with regards to the whole Aggron in OU thing is that CB Head Smash deals an impressive 46% on average to 4/0 Lucario. So he isn't complete set up fodder but if you're going to be spamming a choiced Rock attack all game you want to make damn sure you have a solid Lucario counter.

 

[Xaqwais]

I really want to try this for NU. Too bad it'll probably move up to UU soon.

 

[noob3]

Aggron looks way too cool to be NU, with his Def and Atk stats it was a true shame. GF knows whats up, giving this bad boy Head Smash. Now that his main stab is a force to be reckoned with and he is finally utiliing his trait, I foresee Aggron quickly climbing into OU.

Scizor will have a VERY hard time getting past Aggron+Gyra, as Aggron will be able to switch in initially to take the U-Turn and resisiting Stealth Rock, while Gyra will come in on the Scizor later in the match and set-up if you feel said Scizor is brave enough to Superpower or Brick Break expecting your Aggron to come back in. But this is mainly a "I don't want my non-rest Gyra to take %25 initially on a U-Turn" kind of Scenario.

That, and it has METAL BURST! 8) Focus Sashed Head Smashing Metal Burster Lead? Lol, just kidding. Aggron has the tools to get the job done, expect to see this pokemine shine.

 

[franky]

@ franky: Again, Torterra, except the fact that you say "only" is extremely irritating. I wouldn't exclude the #30th most used UU. As for pokemon that can easily take a CB Head Smash: Steelix, Registeel, Hitmontop, Claydol, Donphan, Torterra, Hariyama, Tangrowth, and Weezing. The latter two of which should switch in after something dies, or on anything else except Head Smash if you are directly switching to them.

Yeah, "only" might have been an exaggeration. While I do agree there are far more checks, I believe Aggron is more suited for UU play. I'm the kind of player that prefers a weaker environment for Aggron and UU play fits in nicely. Again, it has more 'free switch-ins' and open doors to set up Rock Polish, or just spam CB Head Smash as suppose to OU play where the options are limited. It can be viewed two ways:

1) UU, more oppurunities to come in and "open doors", but more checks / counters

2. OU, less oppurunities ot come in, but less checks / counters

I like UU preferably because the same physical walls are quite common in this tier, which is why I favour it more. Sure, it has checks, but I'll quote down your list and bold the common ones: Steelix, Registeel, Hitmontop, Claydol, Donphan, Torterra, Hariyama, Tangrowth, and Weezing.

These are "solid" CB checks, but it doesn't stop them from coming on Rock Polish sets. In OU, getting the Rock Polish is much more difficult and the checks are more bulkier as suppose to these guys bolded. Steelix suffers a 2HKO from Earthquake, while it 2HKOes in return. Registeel can't do much, as its a 2HKO as well while it fails to 2HKO with Earthquake. I've completed forgot about Hitmontop, but its a good check for the most part but it has to load up tons of Defense and HP and pack Intimidate to handle it well. Donphan is a check. Torterra dies to Ice Punch, Tangrowth and Weezing are 2HKOes by CB Head Smash or Life Orb Head Smash w/ SR down.

To conclude what I'm trying to portray. Aggron can bypass plenty of physical walls through different methods. While its not invincible, it definitley performs better in the UU tier than OU. And returning back to my point, more open doors is something I prefer than less open doors to set up.

Now, pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Aggron: Roserade, Milotic, Mismagius, Yanmega, Ambipom, Honchkrow, Blaziken, Dugtrio, Hitmontop, Azumarill, Arcanine, Moltres, and Houndoom.

All suffer a OHKO from a Rock Polish Aggron. See, Aggron won't be running CB most of the time. You simply forgot Rock Polish, another available set. Again, it has plenty of openings to get the Rock Polish, which is why I favor it over UU.

@ Bologo

Yeah, I'm not saying Aggron isn't avaliable in OU, it works great, but I feel its better suited for UU play that's all. Rock Polish / CB set can work in UU, depending on the team around it (lures to make sweeps easier, dual screens, etc.) I've yet to try SubRise set though :o

 

[itsbigfoot]

Aggron meshes much better in UU with the right support. Sure there are plenty Ground-types in that tier, but this where team support comes in, lures, toxic spikes, etc. In OU, Aggron is just overwhelmed by the offense and doesn't have much space to come in and use a CB Head Smash. It feels like it only gets 1-2 Head Smash's throughout the course of the match because the offense / power in OU is crazy compared to UU.

Donphan, Claydol, Hariyama, Regirock and Steelix can all counter Aggron. Donphan, Claydol and Hariyama can come in on anything and OHKO back, Regirock and Steelix only have to worry about CB Earthquakes, which may 2HKO, everything else gives plenty of time to come in and ko. Since CBGrons main attack is always going to be Head Smash, most of these pokes can come in for free and scare it off, even Nidoqueen can come in on a choice Head Smash and ko back. Assuming you do KO something, a decent Aqua Jet or Mach Punch will revenge ko you fairly easily. if you aren't running Rock Polish, Ambipom, Honchkrow, and many other common threats can come in and revenge ko you.

because of that, the choice set is remarkably worse in UU. That leaves Specially Defensive Gron, Rock Polish Gron and SubRise Gron.

Specially Defensive needs sandstorm (harder to pull off in UU) to be effective, and is still countered by the above counters due to lack of damage output/speed.

SubRise no longer loses to Donphan, Steelix, Claydol and Nidoqueen, but still loses to Hariyama and Regirock, and now gets countered by Bulky waters (Slowbro, Milotic, Quagsire, etc.) due to lack of damage output.

Rock Polish gets walled by bulky grounds and bulky waters, and needs something not packing fighting/ground/water/status to set up on, which is very rare.

in OU, anything choice locked into a NVE special move or a neutral/NVE physical move is set up bait for all 4 of those sets, and Aggron is only walled by Hippo, Pert and Rhyperior (hippo and rhyperior have trouble damaging subrise though. it can also get in on Blissey, Skarmory and most walls in general, and once it is in it's pretty much guaranteed to ko something. Revenge koing it is also harder since celebi, latias, gliscor and gyarados can take almost anything aimed a Aggron and heal off the damage

also, CBGron may only get off 2 Head Smashes (usually I get 3+, but I take good care of my Aggron), but that's effectively 2 kos