Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[YubelVT]

Banded is here so it can’t be terrible
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/meowscarada/

There's probably a reason that nobody here really talks about band meowscarada and it's because, while the damage is good, the scarf speed tier is simply too valuable to use band.

 

[1LDK]

When it comes to meow, the best set right now is boots 4 attacks, this is because of the state of the meta, where hazard stacking is king and being able to have a good mix of utility in knock off + U-turn is essential, and while band and scarf are good sets, they are heavily chipped and thus, fits in less play styles. Triple Axel (with tera electric) is better than Thunder Punch because of the Zapdos matchup, who is otherwise downright impossible to win because of hurricane + static, and being able to scare or force a tera on gliscor can be huge too

 

[Heatranator]

Banded is here so it can’t be terrible
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/meowscarada/

Scarf's speed is simply amazing, and you can make up for the lack of power with protean. Flower trick is a really strong move and can make up for the lack of power with scarf. The other mons you listed are too bulky for meow to break through. Plus, flower trick destroys dondozo, which is the main physcial wall in the tier, something that is a massive advantage for meow.

 

[Xufactor]

Why is band listed before scarf then?
On the smogon page

 

[j0nathan]

Why is band listed before scarf then?
On the smogon page

Because the Set works on Scarf and Band.

 

[Ayman]

The mods already said that no ubers is dropping so cut it off.

It’s beyond me how some of you want things like Shaymin, Lugia, Giratina or Solgaleo on a tier that is already filled with overpowered things and that finally after 1 year is kind of stable.

Literally the exact same arguments were made for Zamazenta, Darkrai, Deoxys D/S and Blaziken. What makes people so sure that there aren't other such cases?

 

[Xufactor]

Because the Set works on Scarf and Band.

people were saying scarf is better than band, then scarf would be listed first in the /

 

[Xufactor]

Literally the exact same arguments were made for Zamazenta, Darkrai and Blaziken. What makes people so sure that there aren't other such cases?

They’re not saying Ubers should never drop, just these. different arguments would be made for different Pokémon.

We had Ubers drop. At some point you’re gonna have to make a call to stop dropping them.

 

[Heatranator]

Literally the exact same arguments were made for Zamazenta, Darkrai, Deoxys D/S and Blaziken. What makes people so sure that there aren't other such cases?

We may not know, but it's pointless to try to argue about dropping Ubers. Not only have the mods said no to dropping more ubers at this point in time, but people haven't been making good arguements about them dropping. You need to address the problems it may cause for the tier as well, and when you look at most Uber drops theorised right now, they cause more problems. Please stop bringing up Uber drops, it just clogs up the discussion and leads us nowhere.

 

[dunderguy]

Moral of the story: people are dumb, more at 11

To prevent a one liner, what is everyone’s favorite mon to use in DLC2 OU? Mine is gouging fire because i love clicking funni button and watching the enemy explode.

with flip turn and knock off is a mon i love to switch into any special attacker barring stuff like , underrated pivot imo

 

[658Greninja]

What about banded meow?

Triple Axel does the same thing.

252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Just Knock the Helmet off early on and you should be good

 

[YubelVT]

people were saying scarf is better than band, then scarf would be listed first in the /

Counterpoint:

 

[Xufactor]

Counterpoint:

what do you mean? Serp?

 

[YubelVT]

what do you mean

Stellar terra is the best thing for serperior to run by a mile and it's not even listed on his set. Just because it's on a sample set doesn't mean it's worth considering. Another example of this is gen 7 thundurus-therian where the optimal HP type is ice or grass and not, as the sample suggests, flying.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

Stellar terra is the best thing for serperior to run by a mile and it's not even listed on his set. Just because it's on a sample set doesn't mean it's worth considering. Another example of this is gen 7 thundurus-therian where the optimal HP type is ice or grass and not, as the sample suggests, flying.

it actually is not, stellar serp is fine but it is incredibly overrated, serp is a weak pokemon and the power comes from leaf storms huge power, stellar blast's power is just not that great and the +1 boost is ok at best. Ground/Fire is definetly the better tera, tho Stellar should be there over water probably.

Remember, serp's main strength is glare + leaf storm, but is hindered by awful coverage.

 

[Xufactor]

Triple Axel does the same thing.

252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Just Knock the Helmet off early on and you should be good

same? Triple axel can miss and is more reliant on Rocky Helmet being knocked off. There are benefits to flower trick, of course

 

[Heatranator]

Stellar terra is the best thing for serperior to run by a mile and it's not even listed on his set. Just because it's on a sample set doesn't mean it's worth considering. Another example of this is gen 7 thundurus-therian where the optimal HP type is ice or grass and not, as the sample suggests, flying.

I think this is a perfect example of testing out the mons to see what works for it. For example, iron valiant in its description does not list even 25% of the moves you could use, despite their being five movesets for it. It has so many moveset options that something like leaf blade, aura sphere, ice punch or liquidation that are good options, aren't included because they aren't the most common moves. I'm cooking up scarf dragapult for true outspeeding, because my team is extremely slow besides grassy glide rillaboom. Not the most conventional, but it slots into my team nicely.

 

[dunderguy]

What do you guys think is the best Sticky Web Setter right now?

 

[Cuddly]

What do you guys think is the best Sticky Web Setter right now?

It’s an excellent Sticky Web setter as its the only one that also has Ceaseless Edge, Stone Axe, Spore, Rapid Spin, etc.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Stellar terra is the best thing for serperior to run by a mile and it's not even listed on his set. Just because it's on a sample set doesn't mean it's worth considering. Another example of this is gen 7 thundurus-therian where the optimal HP type is ice or grass and not, as the sample suggests, flying.

stellar tera's not actually that good. you can get a million times more mileage out of serp by running an actual type like fire or ground. leaf storm is an objectively better move to click on neutral-or-better targets because it's stronger and your spa grows faster, so the only time you'd want to use stellar tera blast is against grass resists, but you can hit those much harder with tera blast of a supereffective type instead

It’s an excellent Sticky Web setter as its the only one that also has Ceaseless Edge, Stone Axe, Spore, Rapid Spin, etc.

i much prefer tidy up or mortal spin over rapid spin myself. mortal spin has the trade-off of not boosting speed, but it can help with status spreading on offense teams whose breakers and cleaners appreciate the immediate damage from regular poison (it outdamages toxic for the first couple turns), and it can prevent shenanigans from non-ghold spinblockers. tidy up risks you undoing your own hazard progress but can also remove hazards while ghold is on the field, which makes it extremely valuable because it's the only move in the game that actually reliably removes hazards so you should probably be running it 100% of the time on anything that gets it

 

[Return to Zero]

people were saying scarf is better than band, then scarf would be listed first in the /

Smogon analyses are not cut and dry indications of what's the best to do and are not listed in descending order of viability. Sometimes stuff works better on different teams, for example. You gotta do a little more critical thinking than that.

 

[Morkal]

Hey everyone; I just started my new semester, so I'm a little swamped this weekend - but I still wanted to quickly share a fun Deoxys-Speed variant that I've been enjoying quite a bit and has done wonders for some of my team compositions. I tested out several Band variants, but this one has come out to be my favorite of the bunch.

Choice Band Trick Utility Deoxys-Speed

Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Trick​

Want to have a solid chance to OHKO whomp Gholdengo/Kyurem along with some other major threats and compress great offensive utility into a single set? Banded Trick Deo with Knock, E Speed, and Superpower is ya boi. Tera Normal boosts Espeed to great levels + allows you to bait Shadow Balls/Hexes/etc. This is a niche variant of Deoxys-S meant to slot in on teams that have additional dedicated answers for mons like Great Tusk. It's unexpectedly powerful and can blow holes in your opponent's teams in a way that Deoxys-S normally can't do.

Damage Calculations

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 592-700 (148 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 189-223 (65.3 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Archaludon: 208-246 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 458-540 (130.4 - 153.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 229-271 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 378-446 (96.6 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 189-223 (48.3 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 328-388 (84.9 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 294-346 (93.3 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 210-248 (55.5 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking-Galar: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 378-446 (134.5 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Boulder: 226-266 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 464-548 (158.3 - 187%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 522-616 (123.4 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 246-291 (87.5 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 280-330 (68.1 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Xufactor]

Smogon analyses are not cut and dry indications of what's the best to do and are not listed in descending order of viability. Sometimes stuff works better on different teams, for example. You gotta do a little more critical thinking than that.

People were implying that scarf is cut and dry better than band. I would expect the order of Smogon analyses to be overall rankings, not cut and dry, and band was listed before scarf.

 

[Heatranator]

People were implying that scarf is cut and dry better than band. I would expect the order of Smogon analyses to be overall rankings anyway, not cut and dry, and band was listed before scarf.

It's probably just because band is alphabetically before scarf, thus the distinction. Band can be good in the right scenarios, but scarf's speed is insane. It's most likely done because they have the same moveset and ev's.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Hey everyone; I just started my new semester, so I'm a little swamped this weekend - but I still wanted to quickly share a fun Deoxys-Speed variant that I've been enjoying quite a bit and has done wonders for some of my team compositions. I tested out several Band variants, but this one has come out to be my favorite of the bunch.

Choice Band Trick Utility Deoxys-Speed

View attachment 589023


Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Trick​

Want to have a solid chance to OHKO whomp Gholdengo/Kyurem along with some other major threats and compress great offensive utility into a single set? Banded Trick Deo with Knock, E Speed, and Superpower is ya boi. Tera Normal boosts Espeed to great levels + allows you to bait Shadow Balls/Hexes/etc. This is a niche variant of Deoxys-S meant to slot in on teams that have additional dedicated answers for mons like Great Tusk. It's unexpectedly powerful and can blow holes in your opponent's teams in a way that Deoxys-S

Damage Calculations

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 592-700 (148 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 189-223 (65.3 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 276-326 (72 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Archaludon: 208-246 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 458-540 (130.4 - 153.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 229-271 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 378-446 (96.6 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 189-223 (48.3 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 328-388 (84.9 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 294-346 (93.3 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 210-248 (55.5 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking-Galar: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 378-446 (134.5 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Boulder: 226-266 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 464-548 (158.3 - 187%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 522-616 (123.4 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 246-291 (87.5 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 280-330 (68.1 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hey Morkal, any reason your post kinda just cuts itself off at the end of your first paragraph? You say: a way that Deoxys-S, then it just cuts off.