Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[GT89]

I normally don’t do these type of posts, but it has to be said.

View attachment 588285
FUCK KYUREM​

This thing might honestly be the most braindead poke as of right now and it needs to be the first priority for a suspect.

Reason #1 Specs go brr/Insanely bulky under Snow
Specs 2HKOs nearly the entire tier, and Tera Ice is another level of bullshit. When paired with Gking it becomes unreasonably bulky, so you can’t really use the excuse that “its slow and can be threatened out” argument.

252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Snow: 270-320 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Snow: 288-338 (73.6 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here we see Kyurem live a Close Combat from two base 120 and 130 Atk fighting types.

Volcarona ain’t doing much better either.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 304-358 (97.7 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

This set is used on Boots spam teams. Cause it doesn’t matter if it eats 25% from SR, something dies whenever it comes in. Also for some fucked up reason, Kyurem’s freeze procs more consistently than fucking Scald.

Reason #2: Too versatile
By the way, Kyurem has two other sets that are just as broken. Heavy Duty Boots lets you bypass the need of prediction and just steamroll teams without needing to worry about SR. If your worried about Volc, just plop in Stone Edge. You really don’t need Draco here when Ice Beam/Freeze Dry/EP hits everything else.

56- Atk Kyurem Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Volcarona: 376-444 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Then you have Dragon Dance. DD, Spear, Tera Ground/Fire, Scale Shot. Hell you can even invalidate Dozo by slotting in Freeze Dry, Cause you’re Kyurem.

Predict wrong, you get 6-0d. Predict right, you get 6-0d anyways. There is minimal drawback to running Kyu, and its presence is close to SS Magearna.

Reason #3: Easy switch in opportunities
You would think that an Ice/Dragon type would not find much opportunities to come in but, it absolutely does. Usually with pivots like Gking, Cinder, or Meow. Ice weak mons normally scared out by Kyurem like Gliscor, Zapdos, or Ting-Lu. Hell you could just lead with it and only a select few things could actually 1v1 it. Even using it myself feels disgusting. Despite worse hazard removal and losing Roost in Gen 9, its arguably more broken than it was in SS. No Melmetal, no Scizor with Roost, no Scarf Lele to scare it off. It got Tera to either make its Ice moves into nukes or Tera to make use of a DD set.

Benefits to banning Kyurem
Banning Kyu would open up teambuilding easier. No more needing a Steel or Fire type with Gking or slapping Volc on a team and hoping it doesn’t click Draco. It would also allow more helpful dragons to find a slot like Hydrapple with its bulk + Regen, and Raging Bolt with Electric Sucker Punch.

The tier is also not short of strong wallbreakers. Weavile is another ice type with strong dual STABs that could be a sub for Kyu.

Right now I am finding teambuilding very stale.

Gking/Skarm/Ting-Lu/Volc/Fast Knock/Breaker

This has pretty much been all my teams and we could use some variety.

What's been your favorite GKing set lately? Are you running twave or just going in a different direction?

Does your Knock Off user address hazards as well? Or do you just not care about them that much with this team structure?

Just curious and looking for tips. Thanks!

 

[ShizuOsaka]

Okay, I have been running a balance team, and I have run into a lot of problems against Raging Bolt.
Does anyone know a reliable way to counter it?

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

Okay, I have been running a balance team, and I have run into a lot of problems against Raging Bolt.
Does anyone know a reliable way to counter it?

ive resorted to a calm unaware clefable.... nearly max EVs.. as long as you stay healthy it works..
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Leftovers w/ calm mind protect wish moonblast.

having rillaboom helps to keep recovery up and life orb rilla can take a thunderclap and do a significant enough amount with knocck out or drain punch that the two should manage.. I don't run high horsepower but if its a problem enough for you, you might.



By the way I'm open to being challenged by anyone using urshifu-r, eleki or lugia at any time I'm on showdown. (Not combined) I will not immediately accommodate whatever team I'm using in ou at the time for them. Just for fun!

 

[Cuddly]

It's bulkier but so what? All those calcs are showing is Lugia as a glorified punch-bag, at least Ting can set hazards, phaze or cripple those mons with Ruination, what's Lugia doing back other than waste their PP before it dies? People are ignoring the many other dowsides of Lugia like bad typing, helpless to every status condition, low power, hazard weak, Huge 4MSS, loss of Toxic which allowed it to break through bulky mons which made it set-up bait and loss of T-Wave and Defog which made it a better support mon.. Like the previous calcs between Ghambit, Dhengo and Darkrai, yes Lugia can stomach a hit but what's is it doing back to any of those mons which you can't even 2HKO when they univested in bulk? Let's use a previous post as an example and assume your Lugia has two slots reserved for Roost and Substitute, now let's assume you have Earth Power what else are you packing? Ice for bulky grounds and dragons? TeraBlast for a possible for darks who don't care about EP? Calm Mind? You still lose to every Unaware mon in the tier, Ting/Hamurott still use you as set-up for Hazards, you're too weak to win CM wars, too many mons in the tier make it a momentum drain, etc. I get it, it's BST+Multiscale makes it look like it doesn't die but every decent archetype has no-niche tools to combat it. I'm not saying to drop it now especially since DLC2 got released in less than a month but I ask people to consider just how much it has changed for it in the generation shift, like the Recovery nerf, massive Hazard influx than any other generation, loss of key moves to diminish it's passivity, etc.


Apples to oranges. Terapagos got even fatter than Lugia post-tera and unlike Lugia wasn't a momentum drain, it packed a great 130 SpA, an Unresisted attack with 120 power, bigger coverage and Stored Power for maximum cheese.

It matters because imagine if Ting-Lu got Recover or set up moves, or had 110 Speed, or at full health negated half of damage taken from direct attacks.
Lugia being comparable to Terapagos because both have so much bulk it’s incredibly easy to set up multiple boosts and win multiple 1v1s because you tank so much while hitting decently yourself. That’s what made Terapagos so busted in the first place. And unlike Terapagos, Lugia doesn’t need to Tera, doesn’t lose Multiscale when it Teras and can easily get it back, and can choose its Tera too.

 

[658Greninja]

What's been your favorite GKing set lately? Are you running twave or just going in a different direction?

Does your Knock Off user address hazards as well? Or do you just not care about them that much with this team structure?

Just curious and looking for tips. Thanks!

Not sure how this is relevant to Kyurem, but I’m willing to answer.

The Gking set I run is dependent on the team itself. If my matchup into Kyu and Volc is bad, I’ll run max SpD with Toxic or Yawn. If my matchup into Zama is rough, I’ll use mixed defense Gking with 156 def evs to tank two Crunches. I’ve really liked Yawn on Gking, not only does it shutdown several setup sweepers, but it generates momentum.

I’m working on a teambuilding guide and analysis on SV OU, so I’ll cover more on Knock Off.

TL;DR, Knock Off abusers on Boots Spam should either run Boots or are immune to spikes anyways in the case of Clef and Gliscor. The best ones to run are those that are fast and apply offensive pressure like Meow, Weavile, Tusk, and Darkrai. Even Clef can work since its naturally difficult to pivot into, and the mons that can, aren’t fond of Knock.

 

[ZannaBianca99]

Okay, I have been running a balance team, and I have run into a lot of problems against Raging Bolt.
Does anyone know a reliable way to counter it?

Ting-Lu and Spdef Clodsire have usually a good match-up on balance teams and any faster Ground type or Electric resistance either forces it out or forces it to Tera, though the latter usually usually leads to a KO on your end so patience is required

 

[Local Dog]

Anyways, I have to say, this little gremlin slaps. Encore + Thunder Wave + Mold Breaker destroys Kingambit, most if not all set up sweepers, cripples Dengo and can take quite a lot with max HP investment due to her insane typing, so you can put the rest into speed and have a fast encore user

I like to combine her with Specs Hex Pult, works wonderfully

 

[GravitysGone]

Now that the meta is settling in, there’s honestly nothing I feel is egregious except for Roaring Moon, which needs to be gone right now. Seriously, that thing needs 1 DD to sweep entire teams.

 

[j0nathan]

Now that the meta is settling in, there’s honestly nothing I feel is egregious except for Roaring Moon, which needs to be gone right now. Seriously, that thing needs 1 DD to sweep entire teams.

Same for Kyurem.
And there are also other Kyurem Sets (Specs) who don't even need Dragon Dance to sweep entire Teams.
658Greninja wrote a good Analysis on Kyurem on Page 117.
But let's just wait what the Council says after SPL.

 

[Anchor9]

What would be the optimal EV spread and Nature for a mixed Rain Abuser Dragonite? Yes, this is still me trying to get Ampharos to OU.

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

Moral of the story: people are dumb, more at 11

To prevent a one liner, what is everyone’s favorite mon to use in DLC2 OU? Mine is gouging fire because i love clicking funni button and watching the enemy explode.

I wanna say Raging Bolt, but I think it'd actually have to go to Scream Tail atm. It is a superb fit on Sun teams, letting the multitude of Dragons on it run Proto Atk or SpA by supplying speed control in the form of Thunder Wave and passing off Wishes.

 

[Magcargo]

Personally I'd rather just get the Tera re-suspect out of the way before getting rid of Kyurem. The metagame is currently in a fairly balanced state even with Kyurem, so I think Tera can be evaluated more neutrally than the first sus where a ton of OP stuff like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, and shed tail was running around, which likely skewed players perception of the mechanic when voting. I think settling the matter of what we wind up doing on gen 9's centralizing mechanic is preferable, especially since no threat current is super duper busted.

Bear in mind that I am fairly neutral on Tera as a whole. However I think now is the time to settle on what we want our meta's finalized rules set to be. Let's just get this test outta the way and then look at what's op and what's not from there.

 

[Wolf-X]

My favs are Gouging fire (specially in sun) and Archaludon, so much fun! Archaludon in rain is a freaking menace.

 

[bigasschungusboi]

Personally I'd rather just get the Tera re-suspect out of the way before getting rid of Kyurem. The metagame is currently in a fairly balanced state even with Kyurem, so I think Tera can be evaluated more neutrally than the first sus where a ton of OP stuff like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, and shed tail was running around, which likely skewed players perception of the mechanic when voting. I think settling the matter of what we wind up doing on gen 9's centralizing mechanic is preferable, especially since no threat current is super duper busted.

Bear in mind that I am fairly neutral on Tera as a whole. However I think now is the time to settle on what we want our meta's finalized rules set to be. Let's just get this test outta the way and then look at what's op and what's not from there.

Nah, either we leave the metagame alone and suspect nothing or we suspect the mons themselves we can't say the meta is balanced suspect nothing its been 2-3 weeks, oh and on that same note do the biggest possible tone shift for the meta lol.

 

[j0nathan]

I just faced a guy using Rain Dance Gyarados to enable his Thunder Dragapult. This is crazy.

The opposing Alucard!! used Thunder!
(Kingambit lost 26.2% of its health!)

 

[Cuddly]

I just faced a guy using Rain Dance Gyarados to enable his Thunder Dragapult. This is crazy.

The opposing Alucard!! used Thunder!
(Kingambit lost 26.2% of its health!)

Ah yes, my favorite rain setting Water/Flying type. Gyarados!

 

[Xufactor]

Isn’t thunder punch better than flower trick on scarf meowscarada? With triple axel

 

[Heatranator]

Isn’t thunder punch better than flower trick on scarf meowscarada? With triple axel

No? Flower trick does insane damage and helps it beat dondozo. Scarf meow is alright, but flower trick is a must. Thunder punche's supereffective hits usually are around the same damage as flower trick hitting neutrally. You already hit flying types super effectively with triple axel, so it would be a waste of a moveslot.

 

[Xufactor]

No? Flower trick does insane damage and helps it beat dondozo. Scarf meow is alright, but flower trick is a must. Thunder punche's supereffective hits usually are around the same damage as flower trick hitting neutrally. You already hit flying types super effectively with triple axel, so it would be a waste of a moveslot.

Corviknight, Skarm, pex

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

Corviknight, Skarm, pex

You are NOT breaking past any of them even with Thunder Punch.

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 152-182 (38 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Corvo is the least physically bulky of the three. Your job as Scarf Meowscarada is not to wallbreak. Instead you're revenging would be faster threats like Booster Valiant or +1 Roaring Moon.

 

[Xufactor]

You are NOT breaking past any of them even with Thunder Punch.

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 152-182 (38 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Corvo is the least physically bulky of the three. Your job as Scarf Meowscarada is not to wallbreak. Instead you're revenging would be faster threats like Booster Valiant or +1 Roaring Moon.

What about banded meow?

 

[YubelVT]

What about banded meow?

can't outspeed booster valiant or +1 moon therefore trash even if the numbers are good

 

[Xufactor]

Banded is here so it can’t be terrible
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/meowscarada/

 

[UnusualBoy]

Ok, so Latias was banned in UU, let’s bring her back to OU, Latiasnation!! The tier needs her lil gimmicks and charming nature!

I am planning to make a dragon team so I’m seeing good options for it. Latias, Dragonite and Dragapult are already in!

 

[Xufactor]

can't outspeed booster valiant or +1 moon therefore trash even if the numbers are good

can't outspeed booster valiant or +1 moon therefore trash even if the numbers are good

By this reasoning, boots would be worse than scarf even though boots is listed before scarf