Welcome, everyone. I'll keep this introduction short and simple. As the title makes clear, this discussion will focus on Salamence's viability as a suspect. While Manaphy is still being tested, it is clear that the "pokemon-testing" phase of the Smogon Suspect Process is reaching its end, so it would be the perfect time to discuss the dragon. And although a thread has been started in Policy Review, I think that perhaps we as a community could help come to a general consensus regarding it, much like the Suspect Nomination Process found in the UU Metagame. Without further adieu...
We all know a great deal about Salamence, but let's establish a baseline for discussion. Salamence features 95 HP / 135 Atk / 80 Def / 110 SpA / 80 SpD / 100 Spe to start out with, backed by Dragon and Flying types. It is limited to one choice of ability (albeit a good one): Intimidate. It's movepool consists of the following viable selections, with blue moves indicating STAB:
Aerial Ace
Aqua Tail
Brick Break
Crunch
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
HP Ground
Hydro Pump
Outrage
Rock Slide
Roost
Shadow Claw
Stone Edge
Wish
A nice list - we see that it has both offensive and defensive options available to it, including the likes of Roost and Stone Edge. Now we can proceed.
Salamence can run several sets that are more defensively oriented, and more bulkily EVd to capitalize on its 95 / 80 / 80 defenses and Intimidate. They often feature Roost or Wish, both forms of reliable recovery, and can be used counter fighting-types. Despite their more defensive focus, Salamence is more than capable of using them to inflict damage or set up using its extra bulk.
Specially Bulky
Salamence@Lum Berry / Life Orb
Adamant; 236 HP / 64 Atk / 116 SpD / 92 Spe
Roost
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Outrage / Dragon Claw
The EVs with this set, when combined with Roost, allow Salamence to survive Ice Beam from the likes of bulky waters while still taking HP Ice from ScarfTran and Timid Gengar. This allows it to alternate between Roost and Dragon Claw / Outrage, the latter of which will always 2HKO Suicune after Stealth Rock. Magnezone support is clearly required.
Physically Bulky
Salamence@Leftovers / Lum Berry
Jolly; 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Roost
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw / Outrage
The physically defensive focus of this Salamence differentiates it from the above set, especially as it utilizes its Intimidate ability. It can survive SD- and LO-boosted Extremespeed from Lucario, as well as even a critical Stone Edge from ScarfCross, both accomplished with the aforementioned ability. Its 280 speed allows it to outpace Timid ScarfTran, though it can easily be elevated to 308 spe while retaining its bulk. Again, Magnezone support is ideal.
FatMence
Salamence@Leftovers
Timid; 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Roost
Wish / Toxic
Flamethrower
Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
A much more defensive Salamence than the previous version, as the lack of Dragon Dance would imply. It provides a solid answer to various physical threats thanks to Intimidate, and can still hit hard with Draco Meteor and Flamethrower, a combination resisted only be Heatran. Should Wish be utilized, it can even provide Wish support, though less reliably than say, Jirachi, due to its Stealth Rock weakness.
It is clear that Salamence is capable of taking a hit or two, despite that Stealth Rock weakness. But let's move on to its forte - attacking.
Salamence boasts offensive stats of 135 / 110 / 100, a spread suited for an offensive build. The following sets capitalize on its sets, oftentimes focusing on both offenses. Life Orb is typically used to maximize its damage output, as well as high-powered attacks and STAB.
Dragon Dance
Salamence@Life Orb
Naughty / Naive; 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe
Outrage
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
We all know the set. Boost up with DD, use EQ and Fire Blast to remove problematic steels, and then sweep with STAB Outrage. I don't need to explain, really. Usage statistics indicate that this is the most commonly used Salamence set.
Classic MixMence
Salamence@Life Orb
Rash; 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Fire Blast
Brick Break
Draco Meteor
Roost / Crunch
The classic version of MixMence utilizes Salamence's SpA as the focus, Brick Break being there to beat down pokemon that could typically sponge a Draco Meteor, such as Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar. It features more staying power than the previous and following sets with Roost, which removes LO and residual damage.
Modern MixMence
Salamence@Life Orb
Mild; 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Draco Meteor
Outrage / Roost
This version of MixMence sacrifices SpA for more speed. It allows it to outpace Gyarados before a DD, picking it off with Draco Meteor. The loss of Brick Break is overcome by the addition of Outrage, which easily 2HKOs the most defensive of Blissey. Draco Meteor followed by two turns of Outrage will fell Cresselia, nemesis to any and all Salamence.
Choice Band
Salamence@Choice Band
Naive / Naughty; 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Outrage
Aqua Tail
Fire Blast
Earthquake / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
CBMence focuses on immediate attacking power rather than a setup sweep. Outrage has more than an 80% chance of 2HKOing Max / Max Bold Cresselia, to demonstrate the set's efficiency. 8 SpA allows it to 2HKO 220 / 0 Celebi with Stealth Rock The moves for the last slot each carry their own advantages. EQ for coverage, Stone Edge for opposing Mence and Gyara, and Dragon Claw for STAB without being locked in.
Choice Specs
Salamence@Choice Specs
Modest; 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fire Blast
Hydro Pump
Dragon Pulse
Draco Meteor
The set has become nearly obsolete, as Latias tends to be a better Specs attacker thanks to a method of getting around Blissey - Trick. Regardless, it hits quite hard and must not be underestimated, especially when it has the element of surprise backed by Specs Draco Meteor.
Choice Scarf
Salamence@Choice Scarf
Naughty; 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Outrage
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Hydro Pump
Seemingly a strange fusion of the previous two sets, ScarfMence works best as a late-game sweeper rather than an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. STAB is covered by Outrage, while the other three moves complete the coverage. It dislikes switching in and out repeatedly even more than the previous two sets, as it lacks the raw power to make up for it.
Mixed Dancer
Salamence@Life Orb
Naughty / Naive; 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Dragon Dance
Earthquake / Fire Blast.
Using Salamence's unpredictability, this set utilizes Draco Meteor to remove the physically bulky pokemon that would normally deal with DDMence, such as Swampert. Magnezone support is ideal so that Salamence can comfortably run Earthquake in the last slot, the superior choice for coverage.
Perhaps by virtue of being the #1 pokemon, Scizor finds itself alongside Salamence quite frequently. This is logical however - Salamence resists Scizor's only weakness, while Scizor can take Ice and Dragon attacks aimed at Salamence. It's U-Turn allows it to soften pokemon like Bronzong and Swampert, valuable assets to DDMence.
Metagross and Salamence has perfect synergy, absorbing each other's weaknesses perfectly. Metagross often sets up Stealth Rock for Salamence. Its powerful CBExplosion can take down even Skarmory, opening holes for a DDMence sweep. And while Metagross finds itself having problems against the bulky waters and Rotom formes when it uses the AgiliGross set, Mixmence easily disposes or cripples them for Metagross's successful sweep.
Like Salamence, Tyranitar is highly versatile. It can pursue pokemon that can give Salamence issues, such as ScarfLatias, Starmie, and Celebi using its CB set. The use of a stallbreaking set such as Tyraniboah can allow Salamence to sweep through the remains, while Mixmence can cripple the bulky waters and ground so that Tyranitar can sweep. That said, Salamence resists 5 of Tyranitar's 6 weaknesses, and Tyranitar's bulk lets it take Ice Beams aimed at the dragon.
Lucario finds itself alongside Salamence for similar reasons. The power of its SD set is more than capable of ripping through teams that have been weakened by Salamence, and vice versa. The DDset proves highly effective, outpacing and overpowering the ghosts that stop Lucario. The synergize well type-wise, as well, covering all of the other's weaknesses.
Jirachi is the 5th most commonly used pokemon alongside Salamence. Like Metagross and Lucario, it has perfect type synergy with its Hoenn cohort, and can use the switchin opportunities to threaten the opponent with its own versatility, be that through the Scarf set, SubCM, or a physical moveset. Jirachi's natural bulk and access to Wish allow it to become an excellent partner defensively speaking, nursing Salamence back to health with its Wishpassing Tactic.
Salamence's options are clearly numerous...and many would argue that its versatility is what makes it suspect to begin with, combined with its sheer attacking force. Still others would point to the likes of Infernape, Tyranitar, etc to rebuke this argument.
There are also those who claim that Salamence's strength is too strong for the metagame even when the set is known...
So it is important to keep in mind the following three characteristics, set in place by the excellent minds in the Policy Review:
Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
If you do choose to argue that Salamence is indeed suspect, please include which characteristic you would like to nominate it under. Opponents to Salamence as a suspect don't need to include a specific characteristic in their post, but should keep their arguments within the bounds set by these guidelines.
Some general topics that I feel would help along the discussion:
-Versatility
-Choice of Moves
-Offensive Strength (Damage Calcs Ideal)
-Defensive Prowess (Damage Calcs Ideal)
-Potential Support (Specific Examples, Of Course)
Some links to relevant threads:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50997&highlight=salamence+suspect: The most recent thread discussing Salamence's status.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64977: The Policy Review's Discussion.
Discuss.
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Salamence
Salamence
The Pokemon
We all know a great deal about Salamence, but let's establish a baseline for discussion. Salamence features 95 HP / 135 Atk / 80 Def / 110 SpA / 80 SpD / 100 Spe to start out with, backed by Dragon and Flying types. It is limited to one choice of ability (albeit a good one): Intimidate. It's movepool consists of the following viable selections, with blue moves indicating STAB:
Aerial Ace
Aqua Tail
Brick Break
Crunch
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
HP Ground
Hydro Pump
Outrage
Rock Slide
Roost
Shadow Claw
Stone Edge
Wish
A nice list - we see that it has both offensive and defensive options available to it, including the likes of Roost and Stone Edge. Now we can proceed.
On The Defensive
Salamence can run several sets that are more defensively oriented, and more bulkily EVd to capitalize on its 95 / 80 / 80 defenses and Intimidate. They often feature Roost or Wish, both forms of reliable recovery, and can be used counter fighting-types. Despite their more defensive focus, Salamence is more than capable of using them to inflict damage or set up using its extra bulk.
Specially Bulky
Salamence@Lum Berry / Life Orb
Adamant; 236 HP / 64 Atk / 116 SpD / 92 Spe
Roost
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Outrage / Dragon Claw
The EVs with this set, when combined with Roost, allow Salamence to survive Ice Beam from the likes of bulky waters while still taking HP Ice from ScarfTran and Timid Gengar. This allows it to alternate between Roost and Dragon Claw / Outrage, the latter of which will always 2HKO Suicune after Stealth Rock. Magnezone support is clearly required.
Physically Bulky
Salamence@Leftovers / Lum Berry
Jolly; 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Roost
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw / Outrage
The physically defensive focus of this Salamence differentiates it from the above set, especially as it utilizes its Intimidate ability. It can survive SD- and LO-boosted Extremespeed from Lucario, as well as even a critical Stone Edge from ScarfCross, both accomplished with the aforementioned ability. Its 280 speed allows it to outpace Timid ScarfTran, though it can easily be elevated to 308 spe while retaining its bulk. Again, Magnezone support is ideal.
FatMence
Salamence@Leftovers
Timid; 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Roost
Wish / Toxic
Flamethrower
Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
A much more defensive Salamence than the previous version, as the lack of Dragon Dance would imply. It provides a solid answer to various physical threats thanks to Intimidate, and can still hit hard with Draco Meteor and Flamethrower, a combination resisted only be Heatran. Should Wish be utilized, it can even provide Wish support, though less reliably than say, Jirachi, due to its Stealth Rock weakness.
It is clear that Salamence is capable of taking a hit or two, despite that Stealth Rock weakness. But let's move on to its forte - attacking.
On The Offensive
Salamence boasts offensive stats of 135 / 110 / 100, a spread suited for an offensive build. The following sets capitalize on its sets, oftentimes focusing on both offenses. Life Orb is typically used to maximize its damage output, as well as high-powered attacks and STAB.
Dragon Dance
Salamence@Life Orb
Naughty / Naive; 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe
Outrage
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
We all know the set. Boost up with DD, use EQ and Fire Blast to remove problematic steels, and then sweep with STAB Outrage. I don't need to explain, really. Usage statistics indicate that this is the most commonly used Salamence set.
Classic MixMence
Salamence@Life Orb
Rash; 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Fire Blast
Brick Break
Draco Meteor
Roost / Crunch
The classic version of MixMence utilizes Salamence's SpA as the focus, Brick Break being there to beat down pokemon that could typically sponge a Draco Meteor, such as Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar. It features more staying power than the previous and following sets with Roost, which removes LO and residual damage.
Modern MixMence
Salamence@Life Orb
Mild; 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Draco Meteor
Outrage / Roost
This version of MixMence sacrifices SpA for more speed. It allows it to outpace Gyarados before a DD, picking it off with Draco Meteor. The loss of Brick Break is overcome by the addition of Outrage, which easily 2HKOs the most defensive of Blissey. Draco Meteor followed by two turns of Outrage will fell Cresselia, nemesis to any and all Salamence.
Choice Band
Salamence@Choice Band
Naive / Naughty; 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Outrage
Aqua Tail
Fire Blast
Earthquake / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
CBMence focuses on immediate attacking power rather than a setup sweep. Outrage has more than an 80% chance of 2HKOing Max / Max Bold Cresselia, to demonstrate the set's efficiency. 8 SpA allows it to 2HKO 220 / 0 Celebi with Stealth Rock The moves for the last slot each carry their own advantages. EQ for coverage, Stone Edge for opposing Mence and Gyara, and Dragon Claw for STAB without being locked in.
Choice Specs
Salamence@Choice Specs
Modest; 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fire Blast
Hydro Pump
Dragon Pulse
Draco Meteor
The set has become nearly obsolete, as Latias tends to be a better Specs attacker thanks to a method of getting around Blissey - Trick. Regardless, it hits quite hard and must not be underestimated, especially when it has the element of surprise backed by Specs Draco Meteor.
Choice Scarf
Salamence@Choice Scarf
Naughty; 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Outrage
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Hydro Pump
Seemingly a strange fusion of the previous two sets, ScarfMence works best as a late-game sweeper rather than an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. STAB is covered by Outrage, while the other three moves complete the coverage. It dislikes switching in and out repeatedly even more than the previous two sets, as it lacks the raw power to make up for it.
Mixed Dancer
Salamence@Life Orb
Naughty / Naive; 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Dragon Dance
Earthquake / Fire Blast.
Using Salamence's unpredictability, this set utilizes Draco Meteor to remove the physically bulky pokemon that would normally deal with DDMence, such as Swampert. Magnezone support is ideal so that Salamence can comfortably run Earthquake in the last slot, the superior choice for coverage.
Typical Teammates
Perhaps by virtue of being the #1 pokemon, Scizor finds itself alongside Salamence quite frequently. This is logical however - Salamence resists Scizor's only weakness, while Scizor can take Ice and Dragon attacks aimed at Salamence. It's U-Turn allows it to soften pokemon like Bronzong and Swampert, valuable assets to DDMence.
Metagross and Salamence has perfect synergy, absorbing each other's weaknesses perfectly. Metagross often sets up Stealth Rock for Salamence. Its powerful CBExplosion can take down even Skarmory, opening holes for a DDMence sweep. And while Metagross finds itself having problems against the bulky waters and Rotom formes when it uses the AgiliGross set, Mixmence easily disposes or cripples them for Metagross's successful sweep.
Like Salamence, Tyranitar is highly versatile. It can pursue pokemon that can give Salamence issues, such as ScarfLatias, Starmie, and Celebi using its CB set. The use of a stallbreaking set such as Tyraniboah can allow Salamence to sweep through the remains, while Mixmence can cripple the bulky waters and ground so that Tyranitar can sweep. That said, Salamence resists 5 of Tyranitar's 6 weaknesses, and Tyranitar's bulk lets it take Ice Beams aimed at the dragon.
Lucario finds itself alongside Salamence for similar reasons. The power of its SD set is more than capable of ripping through teams that have been weakened by Salamence, and vice versa. The DDset proves highly effective, outpacing and overpowering the ghosts that stop Lucario. The synergize well type-wise, as well, covering all of the other's weaknesses.
Jirachi is the 5th most commonly used pokemon alongside Salamence. Like Metagross and Lucario, it has perfect type synergy with its Hoenn cohort, and can use the switchin opportunities to threaten the opponent with its own versatility, be that through the Scarf set, SubCM, or a physical moveset. Jirachi's natural bulk and access to Wish allow it to become an excellent partner defensively speaking, nursing Salamence back to health with its Wishpassing Tactic.
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Salamence's options are clearly numerous...and many would argue that its versatility is what makes it suspect to begin with, combined with its sheer attacking force. Still others would point to the likes of Infernape, Tyranitar, etc to rebuke this argument.
There are also those who claim that Salamence's strength is too strong for the metagame even when the set is known...
So it is important to keep in mind the following three characteristics, set in place by the excellent minds in the Policy Review:
Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
If you do choose to argue that Salamence is indeed suspect, please include which characteristic you would like to nominate it under. Opponents to Salamence as a suspect don't need to include a specific characteristic in their post, but should keep their arguments within the bounds set by these guidelines.
Some general topics that I feel would help along the discussion:
-Versatility
-Choice of Moves
-Offensive Strength (Damage Calcs Ideal)
-Defensive Prowess (Damage Calcs Ideal)
-Potential Support (Specific Examples, Of Course)
Some links to relevant threads:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50997&highlight=salamence+suspect: The most recent thread discussing Salamence's status.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64977: The Policy Review's Discussion.
Discuss.