Zangoose

[VaxtinTheWolf]

Had to re-make Thread to rules standards.

​

Since I liked Zangoose and found out he got a pretty good, if not great, ability from the Dream World while researching new abilities of Gen 5. I've constructed a small bit of loose info on what I think it could do for Zangoose. Opinions, Discussion and possible information is greatly appreciated.


Name: Zangoose - #335


Type: Normal


Base Stats: 73/115/60/60/60/90


Abilities: Immunity/Poison Rampage(Dream World)

TMs & HMs

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TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM30 - Shadow Ball, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM54 - False Swipe, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM63 - Embargo, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM66 - Payback, TM67 - Get Even, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM81 - X-Scissor, TM83 - Cheer Up, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM04 - Strength

Egg Moves

Hide

Flail
Double Kick
Razor Wind
Counter
Curse
Fury Swipes
Night Slash
Metal Claw
Double Hit
Disable
Iron Tail
[M515]Desperation
Feint

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb / Life Orb
Ability: Poison Rampage
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
~ Swords Dance
~ Facade / Quick Attack
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Claw

(Toxic orb for a sure way of being poisoned. Life orb for even more power if you switch into a Toxic move or onto one layer of Toxic Spikes. If not one then 2 layers. Poison Rampage powers up your physical moves, so while being poisoned, with + 2 from a single SD, and a powered up STAB Facade you'll be wreaking anything that isn't a Ghost type or maybe really bulky Steels and Rock type pokemon. Close Combat with Shadow claw is unresisted, being "perfect coverage". Quick attack over Facade is because, imo, it's better to NOT be walled by ghosts without Shadow Claw.

tl;dr - Hits hard but dies kinda quick.)

Will made more movesets some other time. Maybe.

 

[WarriorPrince]

TMs & HMs

Hide

TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM30 - Shadow Ball, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM54 - False Swipe, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM63 - Embargo, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM66 - Payback, TM67 - Get Even, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM81 - X-Scissor, TM83 - Cheer Up, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM04 - Strength

Egg Moves

Hide

Flail
Double Kick
Razor Wind
Counter
Curse
Fury Swipes
Night Slash
Metal Claw
Double Hit
Disable
Iron Tail
[M515]Desperation
Feint

 

[Farukon_o_miru]

Perhaps if that ability can prevent the damage of poison it could be a few more useful for Zangoose, but being it an ability in which you have to use an Toxic orb (and no other item) while your Zangoose are losing more HP each turn, i don´t believe it being too used (and IMO Zangoose is very frail and haven´t enough speed for resisting a set intoxicated and do some damage).

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

TMs & HMs

Hide

TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM30 - Shadow Ball, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM54 - False Swipe, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM63 - Embargo, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM66 - Payback, TM67 - Get Even, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM81 - X-Scissor, TM83 - Cheer Up, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM04 - Strength

Egg Moves

Hide

Flail
Double Kick
Razor Wind
Counter
Curse
Fury Swipes
Night Slash
Metal Claw
Double Hit
Disable
Iron Tail
[M515]Desperation
Feint

Thank you for the contribution. Added in.

Perhaps if that ability can prevent the damage of poison it could be a few more useful for Zangoose, but being it an ability in which you have to use an Toxic orb (and no other item) while your Zangoose are losing more HP each turn, i don´t believe it being too used (and IMO Zangoose is very frail and haven´t enough speed for resisting a set intoxicated and do some damage).

Until it's confirmed if it does or does not block PSN damage this could be a hit or miss. Even so, with 306(?) speed with Jolly Nature it's still good against slower pokemon without priority. Still damage can be one in the lower tiers with this I think, even though I am very new to NU pokemon.

 

[WarriorPrince]

Originally Posted by VaxinTheWolf
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb / Life Orb
Ability: Poison Rampage
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
~ Swords Dance
~ Facade / Quick Attack
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Claw

(Toxic orb for a sure way of being poisoned. Life orb for even more power if you switch into a Toxic move or onto one layer of Toxic Spikes. If not one then 2 layers. Poison Rampage powers up your physical moves, so while being poisoned, with + 2 from a single SD, and a powered up STAB Facade you'll be wreaking anything that isn't a Ghost type or maybe really bulky Steels and Rock type pokemon. Close Combat with Shadow claw is unresisted, being "perfect coverage". Quick attack over Facade is because, imo, it's better to NOT be walled by ghosts without Shadow Claw.

tl;dr - Hits hard but dies kinda quick.)

Will make more movesets some other time. Maybe.

This seems like the way to go. It's pretty much Zangoose's best and only shot at being an effective sweeper. Facade hit's ridiculously hard and even Ursaring would smile at this kid's effort.

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

This seems like the way to go. It's pretty much Zangoose's best and only shot at being an effective sweeper. Facade hit's ridiculously hard and even Ursaring would smile at this kid's effort.

Do you know what the rise on Claw Sharpen does? If you do I might be able to make a "gimic" set with it.

 

[Veles]

Claw Sharpen is +1 Attack and +1 Accuracy. Not really any reason to use it over Sword's Dance.

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

Claw Sharpen is +1 Attack and +1 Accuracy. Not really any reason to use it over Sword's Dance.

Well probably in that case SD is better then. Guess I made the best out of what I could think of for Zangoose then.

 

[Azure Demon]

Zangoose is already one of my favorite pokemon with this new ability if it negates poison damage then he will see even more use on my teams and everyone elses for that matter

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

Hm.. How about if someone could submit some damage calcs to be put up? I'd like to know how much power it may possibly have. Assuming the power to physical moves will increase by 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, or 1.5 as I've seen those numbers on a different thread.

 

[Vampgelus]

If it doesn't negate poison damage, it's nothing but an inferior guts ability. So it's probably no big deal.

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

If it doesn't negate poison damage, it's nothing but an inferior guts ability. So it's probably no big deal.

Even if it doesn't, it still has a lot of power. You could use it Mid-Late game. You know, after seeing what your opponent has before just sending it out blindly.

 

[More Cowbell]

I hope Zangoose, one of my favourite Pokémon, will see some more usage thanks to Toxic Orb Poison Rampage Facade abuse. It's Attack is decent enough (pretty good actually), but Speed somewhat lacking, but I think it could be a pretty decent UU physical attacker.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I don't like Zangoose's new ability. It's already too frail, and it wouldn't want to die more quickly than it should. I'd rather stick with Immunity.

 

[Hadn]

This new ability does make zangoose more frail, but its not gunna last long either way. The extra attack is welcome in my opinion and makes it one of the scariest facade users to look out for this generation. It definately needs a batonpass speed boost support or something, and it should have gotten agility in the transition being both a cat and a ferret pokemon... oh well back to the drawing board gamefreak.

 

[The Messiah]

i dont think 90 speed is that bad, this gen there are so many incredibly low speed tanks,

 

[Manaphy]

Poison Rampage + Facade + STAB = Super Powerful. Zangoose is gonna die fast anyway, you might as well make him hit as hard as you can.

 

[M BLADE]

Maybe Zangoose can go nuts now?

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb/ Silk Scarf
252 Atk/ 252 Spd/ 6 HP
Adamant/ Jolly
Poison Rampage

-Swords Dance
-Quick Attack
-Facade
-Close Combat

If you manage to get one SD, this thing hits like Godzilla. If you manage to get poisoned by the enemy and use Silk Scarf as a item... holy Moses, even Quick Attack hurts A LOT.

Calcs of this madness:

+2 Adamant P.Rampage Facade vs :

140/32 Rhyperior: 65.8% - 77.6%
252/252 Tangrowth: 105% - 124%

Quick Attack:

4/0 Absol: 110% - 129.9%
4/0 Blaziken: 87.7% - 103.7%

I'm too lazy to do more calcs, but let me say that with Silk Scarf (as long as you manage to get poisoned and SD up to +2), you can OHKO something like Azumarill or Feraligatr (seen as bulky attackers) with Quick Attack, doing 105% minimum to 252/0 Azumarill.

That's... insane. Not practical, but still insane.

 

[M BLADE]

Completely denied by any ghost type, M Blade. And getting a Swords Dance with a Toxic Orb up is like getting a twinkie off a pidgeon while riding on a jet.

Forgot to mention Pursuit support -writes down on the arm-
Oh i do get Swords Dances with Ursaring this gen. Sometimes.

 

[Hadn]

@M BLADE
Those calculations scare me, zangoose is starting to look like a normal type Marowak or Medicham, granted with a different style of play but more of a glass cannon now.

 

[M BLADE]

Yup, the calcs are there to scare anyone...
but Zangoose is still too damn frail and doesn't have any resists besides ghost, so its nearly impossible to get a SD.
But if you do... ouch.

And worse: the only thing you can come in and SD with no worries is Choice unSTABed Shadow Ball (because if it's STAB, you can't touch the opponent... unless you carry Shadow Claw over Close Combat) and Toxic coming from weak walls.
Yeah, not too many...

 

[Squid Ninja]

How about Protect, to make sure you get the Toxic Orb boost?

 

[Wynought]

Zangoose @ Choice Band / Scarf
Poison Rampage
Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
- Quick Attack
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Shadow Claw

I don't know why everyone is posting Toxic Orb related sets, acting like Zangoose can take a hit, let alone constant damage. This set optimizes the fact that Zangoose can now be the great Toxic absorber ever. Toxic is very common in NU, may it be from Slowking or from Toxic Spikes, this makes Zangoose an ideal absorber. Poison Rampage is far superior to immunity as I never made use of Immunity when using Zangoose, but now being Toxic'd can make him into a hard hitter especially paired with a Choice Band, or a powerful, fast revenge killer.

So, get yourself poisoned, or not, Zangoose doesn't even need to rely on Toxic to be a beast. But if you do find yourself poisoned then you can abuse it and make the most out of it. You could even pair him with a Cleric and continuously rinse and repeat.

The problem with the SD set is that, you are completely stopped in your tracks by Ghost types, and to effectively make the most of SD Zangoose he would have to stay in for long. Residual damage, Prediction, Sandstorm, Hail, Shedinja, Status and priority will bring Zangooses sweep to an abrupt stop.

I agree with the majority who say Zangoose is too frail to fully abuse a SD Toxic Orb set.

I was disappointed Zangoose didn't get Adaptability, Normalize, Scrappy or just Guts :'(

 

[M BLADE]

Well, Zangoose is frail but i'm getting some weird ideas about abusing SD Quick Attack and giving Goose some bulk taking EVs from speed and...

Ok, Zangoose is frail.

@Wynought: the problem is that it's not guaranteed for Goose to get Toxic'd if it doesn't hold Toxic Orb.

 

[Wynought]

What I'm trying to highlight is that Zangoose can work above average without the use of Toxic and Poison Rampage. The fact that getting poisoned would be beneficial to Zangoose is the most attractive niche.

That set works well with and without being Poisoned, taking full advantage of Zangoose's Power while keeping it in tip top condition, for a while.

I myself will play around with the SD set because it reminds me of Ursa, but I'm hoping it doesn't leave like Ursa :'(