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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
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Physical Aegislash being checked isn't anything special tbh, but I feel like his scarf set is amazing too. It's still a solid check to Pokemon like Talonflame or Terrakion with Intimidate. It's also immune to thunder Wave, which is obviously huge, and is able to abuse Knock Off to KO Latios as well as hinder switch-ins like Azumarill, and scout with U-Turn, and used Earthquake as solid STAB that can 2hko the majority of offensive Pokemon, and Stone Edge for Pokemon like Talonflame and Charizard Y. Overall, I believe Landorus-T's scarf set is just amazing on a hyper offensive team, and easily poses a huge threat. For this reason, I would want Landorus-T to be A+.
Alomomola for C+ rank, at least
Anyone else think it's time for this move? Mola is a boss wish passer, passes huge wishes, Regenerator so it doesn't have to worry about healing itself, can spread Toxic fairly well and checking Charizard-X is always nice because of what a monster it is. It has some nice options in it's movepool like Healing Wish and Magic Coat as well. It also has the tour usage recently to show how good it is. I'd type more but I'm drunk and tired, what do people think?
Anyone else think it's time for this move? Mola is a boss wish passer, passes huge wishes, Regenerator so it doesn't have to worry about healing itself, can spread Toxic fairly well and checking Charizard-X is always nice because of what a monster it is. It has some nice options in it's movepool like Healing Wish and Magic Coat as well. It also has the tour usage recently to show how good it is. I'd type more but I'm drunk and tired, what do people think?
At the moment, Alomomola is one of the most common pokemon for stall, the combination of Regenerator, Wish, Protect, Toxic, and Scald proving too much for many teams. You say C+, I say B at the very least. This thing puts the pink blobs to shame! (It doesn't count as a pink blob, it's not fat).
I've put this off long enough (been wanting to do this for like 2 weeks now. Blame laziness). Nominating Mega Garchomp for A- Rank.
Lets start off with Mega Garchomps role. He is a wallbreaker, not a sweeper. The lowered speed doesnt mean shit if you use him right. Yes, I know most of you here already know this, but the amount of Mega Garchomps I see whenever I make a new alt that try to SD on me is ridiculous. As we all (hopefully) know, the mixed set is the best and is absolutely devastating against slower teams, stall, and balance. There is one set in particular that I want to bring up:
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Rash Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
Basic premise of this set is that it outspeeds positive base 80s pre mega and neutral 81s (unboosted Gyarados) post mega while still being able to 2HKO everything bar I think SpDef Gliscor or something after rocks while in sand. Not much more to say on that set in particular, but a combo of either Draco + EQ or double EQ muscles past everything bar Ferro, Skarm, and Mandi, which are OHKOed and 2HKOed respectively by Fire Blast and Stone Edge (hax really shouldnt play a part in a mons viability).
Anyways, on top of 2HKOing basically the entire tier, Garchomp is backed by an excellent typing and great bulk that provides numerous switch in opportunities as well as a key resistance to stealth rock and an immunity to all relevant forms of paralysis (Zygarde isnt common. at all. dont bring up Glare.) On top of that, Mega Garchomp is ususally unexpected, and opposing players may be inclined to leave in their Ferro or Skarm to wall Garchomp if you hide the mega well, only to get roasted to a crisp with Fire Blast. So now Ill make a comparison to an already A- threat: Kyurem-B.
Both have almost the exact same stats, with Kyubes having a slightly higher speed and more bulk. However, the trade off comes with a worse defensive typing and a barren movepool that makes Kyubes OU in the first place. Both perform the same roles on different teams - Chomp is better on sand while Kyubes works on Bulky Offense/Balance better. Kyubes has an advantage of having a LO which brings more power overall, but Chomp basically gets that same boost to EQ & SE under sand. Kyubes is also more vulnerable to residual damage and like to have a sub up (best set imo). Ice is good coverage for Kyubes, but Chomp doesnt really need it as he gets perfect coverage with STAB + Fire Blast, tho Kyubes getting Bolt Strike is nice for Skarm and Azu. Yeah 4x Ice weak isnt great, but Mamos Ice Shard doesnt even OHKO most of the time from full health while having a 50-50 chance to OHKO back with Draco. Let that sink in (252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 302-364 (84.3 - 101.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO). What Im trying to say is that Chomp is pretty much on par with an A- threat, which I believe makes him deserving of A- as well. Ill admit that the Mega slot is an unfortunate opportunity cost, but I dont think its that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
So yeah, Megachomp for A- pls
Lets start off with Mega Garchomps role. He is a wallbreaker, not a sweeper. The lowered speed doesnt mean shit if you use him right. Yes, I know most of you here already know this, but the amount of Mega Garchomps I see whenever I make a new alt that try to SD on me is ridiculous. As we all (hopefully) know, the mixed set is the best and is absolutely devastating against slower teams, stall, and balance. There is one set in particular that I want to bring up:
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Rash Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
Basic premise of this set is that it outspeeds positive base 80s pre mega and neutral 81s (unboosted Gyarados) post mega while still being able to 2HKO everything bar I think SpDef Gliscor or something after rocks while in sand. Not much more to say on that set in particular, but a combo of either Draco + EQ or double EQ muscles past everything bar Ferro, Skarm, and Mandi, which are OHKOed and 2HKOed respectively by Fire Blast and Stone Edge (hax really shouldnt play a part in a mons viability).
Anyways, on top of 2HKOing basically the entire tier, Garchomp is backed by an excellent typing and great bulk that provides numerous switch in opportunities as well as a key resistance to stealth rock and an immunity to all relevant forms of paralysis (Zygarde isnt common. at all. dont bring up Glare.) On top of that, Mega Garchomp is ususally unexpected, and opposing players may be inclined to leave in their Ferro or Skarm to wall Garchomp if you hide the mega well, only to get roasted to a crisp with Fire Blast. So now Ill make a comparison to an already A- threat: Kyurem-B.
Both have almost the exact same stats, with Kyubes having a slightly higher speed and more bulk. However, the trade off comes with a worse defensive typing and a barren movepool that makes Kyubes OU in the first place. Both perform the same roles on different teams - Chomp is better on sand while Kyubes works on Bulky Offense/Balance better. Kyubes has an advantage of having a LO which brings more power overall, but Chomp basically gets that same boost to EQ & SE under sand. Kyubes is also more vulnerable to residual damage and like to have a sub up (best set imo). Ice is good coverage for Kyubes, but Chomp doesnt really need it as he gets perfect coverage with STAB + Fire Blast, tho Kyubes getting Bolt Strike is nice for Skarm and Azu. Yeah 4x Ice weak isnt great, but Mamos Ice Shard doesnt even OHKO most of the time from full health while having a 50-50 chance to OHKO back with Draco. Let that sink in (252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 302-364 (84.3 - 101.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO). What Im trying to say is that Chomp is pretty much on par with an A- threat, which I believe makes him deserving of A- as well. Ill admit that the Mega slot is an unfortunate opportunity cost, but I dont think its that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
So yeah, Megachomp for A- pls
Honestly, I agree with moving Landorus-T up to A+ Rank. It's a great pivot with Stealth Rock and U-turn and its Attack stat, when uninvested, is still pretty good. It's also a bit more versatile then credited. I really like Swords Dance sets, its Attack is sky-high and amped up even further; however, Garchomp remains a tad better at this I'll admit. Landorus-T has a great typing and stellar bulk with Intimidate, checking a ton of Physical Pokemon like Mega Mawile, of all things, with fully invest physical Defense. With 252 HP / 252 Def and an Impish nature, after Intimidate, its Defense is technically a solid 160, provided I did it correctly:
- 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T with Defense set to 160: 144-169 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 144-169 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
No way Alomomola is B rank. Regenerator is basically the only thing it has over Chansey which is the best special wall in the tier. Its only way of doing damage is Toxic or getting a burn with Scald because Scald itself does pitiful damage. Alomomola is easy set-up bait because it doesn't pose an immediate threat whatsoever. Almost every stall team uses Chansey anyway, so why would you need Alomomola to pass wishes anyway on stall?
Yet Lando-T is also held back by a worse typing, not nearly as unpredictable, nor as amazing. It also faces stiff competition in Hippowdon, who doesn't need to rely on its ability at all to have incredible bulk and is able to heal itself repeatedly throughout the match in order to maintain itself against top tier threats such as Char X and Aegislash. He faces a lot of competition and for the great utility Intimidate can bring on the switch in doesn't substitute its overly reliant on it and with it not there makes it hard to justify its bulk over Hippo's.
Maybe, if Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S get banned to the Uber tier, maybe Dragonite can rose to A+ because by then, having to use Defog or Rapid Spin will be less than a handicap because it will be "easier" to remove hazards and more difficult to have the hazards put in (although Stealth Rock is not leaving anytime soon). Also note that Hippowdon is cu8rrently the only UU pokemon in the top ranks.
I even requested to "unrank" Alomomola because I think that, even with his lower physical bulk, Vaporeon is more useful than Alomomola in using Wish. However, I forgot that Alomomola has Regenerator, which is a key ability on stall. But one thing is rank it because it has proven to have a niche only on stall teams, and another is being on B rank with things like Mega Manectric, Suicune, Mega Heracross or Tornadus-Therian, where two fot hem were BL (and Mega Heracross is an obvious one), Suicune is top UU and Mega Manectric is a great pivot and special sweeper.
The problem with Rotom-H is his huge Rock weakness (which also means, a SR weakness), having an STAB that forces an stat drop (specially when the pokemon has 107 Base SpA and the type is Fire, not Dragon), his STAb combination is walled by some pokemon (speciually Dragon types) and it's outclassed by Rotom-W (it's not a Florges-Sylveon/Nymphia situation, but still)
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The reason to drop Landorus-Therian to A rank is because it's outclassed by Landorus. Apart that the two can't be used on the same team. However, his role are not comparable because as a physiucal attacker, Landorus-T is superior to Landorus. Which means that they fit on completely different teams.
I n fact, the only reason why Landprus and Landorus-Therian never appear in the same team is because of Species Clause and because his huge 4x weakness to Ice (although I saw in Gen IV teams with Garchomp and Salamence, although the former suually has a Yache Berry). Because they even fit on different teams (Landorus prefers offensive teams, Landorus-T prefer more defensive teams (even with that Attack).
About Hippowdon, I don't even think that deserves to be A rank at all. Yes, it's a great pokemon and all, but I think it has too much competition from other walls and tanks, his type is decent, but not he best for stall, his typing causes it to have thyree weakness that usually hit for the special side (specially Water types), and almost any Flying and Levitate user not heavily crippled to Toxic can check it.
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The reason to drop Landorus-Therian to A rank is because it's outclassed by Landorus. Apart that the two can't be used on the same team. However, his role are not comparable because as a physiucal attacker, Landorus-T is superior to Landorus. Which means that they fit on completely different teams.
I n fact, the only reason why Landprus and Landorus-Therian never appear in the same team is because of Species Clause and because his huge 4x weakness to Ice (although I saw in Gen IV teams with Garchomp and Salamence, although the former suually has a Yache Berry). Because they even fit on different teams (Landorus prefers offensive teams, Landorus-T prefer more defensive teams (even with that Attack).
About Hippowdon, I don't even think that deserves to be A rank at all. Yes, it's a great pokemon and all, but I think it has too much competition from other walls and tanks, his type is decent, but not he best for stall, his typing causes it to have thyree weakness that usually hit for the special side (specially Water types), and almost any Flying and Levitate user not heavily crippled to Toxic can check it.[/quote]
It's true that Overheat causes a stat drop, but thats not so bad anyway. It's not like his job is to 2hko something. Its to hit something and switch. He hits everything he needs to hit in 1 hit anyway, and wih volt switch the stat drop is not a big deal. However, your right he does have a stealth rocks weakness, but that doesnt stop pokemon like Talonflame or Charizard from being great. I do agree Rotom is no A rank threat but low B should be fine since he is still great. Also, Mega Absol faces stiff competition from other Megas just like H faces competition from W.
Being relegated to only one archetype isn't that bad if you're good at what you do. See: Kingdra, who is also in B.
Also, performance/getting banned from UU is also not the best way to tell if something is good in OU. See: Hawlucha.
Uhhhhh how.
Landorus is not outclassing his other form but using it comes with the price being not able to use the other form in the same team...but why would you use 2 pokemon with the exact same typing (and even the same moveset) in your team in the first place?
Besides that, both mons have different roles compared to each other unless you intend to run both with the same set...depending on that the other one might outclassed the first and vice versa.
Besides that, both mons have different roles compared to each other unless you intend to run both with the same set...depending on that the other one might outclassed the first and vice versa.
Nominating Mega-Heracross for B+ rank
Mega-Heracross has gained a lot of popularity lately, and for good reason. First and foremost, it is able to able to pretty much dismantle Stall without too much difficulty : the only common Pokemon on Stall that can avoid a 2HKO from it after Rocks are Gliscor, who loses to the SD variant since it can't to much more than Toxic stall Heracross, Max Defense Hippowdon who once again, can't do much back besides stall for a Pin Missile miss. This, added to the fact that stall teams don't really prepare for Mega-Heracross as much as they do for the likes of Landorus-I and Kyurem-B. A lot of stall teams have Skarmory as they most solid switch-in to it, even though it goes down from 2 Close Combats after rocks or very little prior damage (even more likely to 2HKO if they run Rocky Helmet over Leftovers).
Now, it may seem like Mega-Heracross is worse vs Offense than B+ rank megas such as Gardevoir and Medicham due to its low speed, but that really isn't true, since Mega-Hera has something few good stallbreakers have : good bulk. Mega-Heracross's solid defenses makes it relatively tough to properly check, and allows it to deal with offensive Pokemon that can cause a lot of trouble for offensive teams such as Bisharp, Excadrill, Weavile, Lucario, and Sash leads such as Breloom (can counter-lead and destroy it, even outspeeds if Adamant before mega), Mamoswine (same here, MHera does have to take a hit if it's Adamant and Mamo is Jolly but takes it decently), and Diggersby. Its bulk enables it to find opportunities to come in against offensive teams and threaten the opposing Pokemon, and nothing on offense really likes switching into Mega-Heracross. Pin Missile is not a hard move to spam, since a lot of things that resist it is either slower and gets picked off by a coverage move (like Azumarill, Aegislash or Mawile) or really doesn't take it that well despite the resistance (like Excadrill and Keldeo-by the way, you can easily give MHera a few HP EVs to live a Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo and threaten to OHKO back with Close Combat, that's how impressive its bulk is).
All in all, Mega-Heracross's ability to knock around Stall as well as deal with offensive teams decently make it a solid pick for offensive teams, and the fall of Birdspam makes it all the more viable in the current metagame. I therefore feel like it fits alongside Mega-Medicham and Mega-Gardevoir, as opposed to Conkeldurr and Lucario.
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This got lost since it was the last post of the last page, and I didn't see anyone say anything about this, so reposting.
lando-t for a+ is honestly pretty insane. lando-t is really limited. it has to be healthy to handle some of the things it wants to handle ie pinsir and talonflame but needs to get in to set up sr. and you want adamant and some atk evs unless you want it to be really weak so now you've cut into its bulk. i mean it's a good pivot but it's missing in a lot of ways, longevity being the largest issue. i can't use lando-t as even a primary answer for so many things because it can only deal with them once or twice and then it's dead and i get swept. it has strengths but i don't use it much because it's just so difficult to keep healthy and alive to use and it definitely shouldn't move up.
for whoever brought up aegi/lando-i/thund as being similar in not having recovery moves: lando-i and thund are offensive pokemon, not pivots. aegi is a pivot but has king's shield and a ridiculous offensive presence in comparison that make it much easier to gain leftovers recovery and keep healthy.
megachomp is rly fine in b+. i just think it's comparable to megavoir/megacham in terms of the fact that it breaks stall and is a big threat, but struggles against offense. spdef gliscor is also p common which walls it. even sub megachomp the best set akin to sub megacham struggles in that it has to get opportunities to get in. it's not really comparable to kyub which has much higher versatility including the option of a strong scarf set to do extremely well against offense, whereas megachomp is limited to basically one set and has no such option for a speed boost.
for whoever brought up aegi/lando-i/thund as being similar in not having recovery moves: lando-i and thund are offensive pokemon, not pivots. aegi is a pivot but has king's shield and a ridiculous offensive presence in comparison that make it much easier to gain leftovers recovery and keep healthy.
megachomp is rly fine in b+. i just think it's comparable to megavoir/megacham in terms of the fact that it breaks stall and is a big threat, but struggles against offense. spdef gliscor is also p common which walls it. even sub megachomp the best set akin to sub megacham struggles in that it has to get opportunities to get in. it's not really comparable to kyub which has much higher versatility including the option of a strong scarf set to do extremely well against offense, whereas megachomp is limited to basically one set and has no such option for a speed boost.
Id like to suggest Entei for a promotion to either B or even B+. I ve been using the CB set alot lately and come to think that its far more effektive than its B- ranking indicates.
It can act as a wallbreaker and revengekiller/lategamecleaner in one mon with its powerful stab and Extremespeed while also providing invaluable utility by spreading burns among the opponents team. With SR up, CB Sacred Fire packs enough power to break most physical walls in the meta, especially if the burn triggers. Because of the burn chance its very unpleasant to switch into it in general. As even things that resist it and dont take too much damage because of that, have a good chance of getting burned and therefor crippled. Virtually the only thing that can switch into Sacred Fire without worries is Heatran and he is nailed by Stone Edge/Bulldoze. On the other hand its Extreme Speed is powerful enough to revengekill common offensive threats after some prior damage, due to its high priority it also circumvates other priority users like Thundurs T-wave and Talonflames Bravebird. Its also decently bulky and gets some useful resists from its typing like steel, fire, bug and fairy so it can take a hit or two if needed.
Virtually its only problem is its SR weakness which hinders its ability to come in multiple times during a match so hazard support is required to use it to its full extent. I guess one could say that its predictable but given that Sacred Fire hits almost everything for massive damage and cripples everything else, it doesnt help the opponent at all to know whats coming.
Thats also the reason why it doesnt mind beeing choice locked all that much, even more than Keldeo with Scald its fine with just spamming its stabmove, the only occasion where at least some prediction is required is when Heatran is on the opposing team and even then your usually fine of with either double switching or using SE/Bulldoze. SE deserves special mention here over Bulldoze because it hits harder in generall and isnt as exploitable as Bulldoze where the Entei user might run into a trap when some levitator/flying type comes in instead of Heatran.
Comparing it to other B+ threats imo the best comparison is Mega Medicham. They are both incredibly hard to switch into and have a similar speed tier. Medicham can switch moves but as already mentioned, Entei is fine by just clicking Sacred Fire 90% of the time and Extreme Speed allows Entei to compensate his mediocre speed tier while Medicham is left with Bulletpunch/Fakeout for priority. In terms of bulk its a trade SR weakness for more bulk and more usefull resists. Imo they are on a similar theat level and the rankings should reflect that.
It can act as a wallbreaker and revengekiller/lategamecleaner in one mon with its powerful stab and Extremespeed while also providing invaluable utility by spreading burns among the opponents team. With SR up, CB Sacred Fire packs enough power to break most physical walls in the meta, especially if the burn triggers. Because of the burn chance its very unpleasant to switch into it in general. As even things that resist it and dont take too much damage because of that, have a good chance of getting burned and therefor crippled. Virtually the only thing that can switch into Sacred Fire without worries is Heatran and he is nailed by Stone Edge/Bulldoze. On the other hand its Extreme Speed is powerful enough to revengekill common offensive threats after some prior damage, due to its high priority it also circumvates other priority users like Thundurs T-wave and Talonflames Bravebird. Its also decently bulky and gets some useful resists from its typing like steel, fire, bug and fairy so it can take a hit or two if needed.
Virtually its only problem is its SR weakness which hinders its ability to come in multiple times during a match so hazard support is required to use it to its full extent. I guess one could say that its predictable but given that Sacred Fire hits almost everything for massive damage and cripples everything else, it doesnt help the opponent at all to know whats coming.
Thats also the reason why it doesnt mind beeing choice locked all that much, even more than Keldeo with Scald its fine with just spamming its stabmove, the only occasion where at least some prediction is required is when Heatran is on the opposing team and even then your usually fine of with either double switching or using SE/Bulldoze. SE deserves special mention here over Bulldoze because it hits harder in generall and isnt as exploitable as Bulldoze where the Entei user might run into a trap when some levitator/flying type comes in instead of Heatran.
Comparing it to other B+ threats imo the best comparison is Mega Medicham. They are both incredibly hard to switch into and have a similar speed tier. Medicham can switch moves but as already mentioned, Entei is fine by just clicking Sacred Fire 90% of the time and Extreme Speed allows Entei to compensate his mediocre speed tier while Medicham is left with Bulletpunch/Fakeout for priority. In terms of bulk its a trade SR weakness for more bulk and more usefull resists. Imo they are on a similar theat level and the rankings should reflect that.
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Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
Oml I was about to show
My points about dropping lando t to A-. Lando t is so overhyped, with no recovery and overeliance on its ability it simply struggles to do what it's supposed to. It can't switch freely into mega maw more than once, same with zard x, two Pokemon it's supposed to check. Bisharps takes advantage of landis ability and just mauls it. Water is a common offensive type as we'll, with things like azum, mega guarantee and Keldeo everywhere. It is actually so overhyped and way more comparable to gliscor and skarm than things like ferro and hippo. Overall it's lack of reliable recovery, over reliance on its ability and a defensive typing which barely resists anything stops it from being A, drop it a rank.
Also alba, dot let people catch on to mega Hera plz fren.
Edit: alomola should be B-. I'll elaborate later
My points about dropping lando t to A-. Lando t is so overhyped, with no recovery and overeliance on its ability it simply struggles to do what it's supposed to. It can't switch freely into mega maw more than once, same with zard x, two Pokemon it's supposed to check. Bisharps takes advantage of landis ability and just mauls it. Water is a common offensive type as we'll, with things like azum, mega guarantee and Keldeo everywhere. It is actually so overhyped and way more comparable to gliscor and skarm than things like ferro and hippo. Overall it's lack of reliable recovery, over reliance on its ability and a defensive typing which barely resists anything stops it from being A, drop it a rank.
Also alba, dot let people catch on to mega Hera plz fren.
Edit: alomola should be B-. I'll elaborate later
I agree with this. IIRC, when it got demoted it was because it was a worse pokemon than other "stallbreakers" like Kyurem-B, which can't even kill chansey with its best set. I ran it through the break my team calculator, and that set is walled only by cresselia. The difference between it and other stallbreakers is that it can actually break stall. Mega heracross is walled by gliscor and clefable, Mega gardevoir is walled by aegislash and scizor, and kyurem-b is walled by ferrothorn, scizor, and even quagsire and chansey unless it runs outrage. Mega Garchomp is walled by nothing except cresselia. It's more comparable to kyurem-b than heracross and gardevoir; they both have 170/120 offenses, wall-like bulk, and decent 92/95 speed. Kyurem-b may be a better pokemon in general, but I think Mega Garchomp is good enough as a wallbreaker to get a spot in A-.
BenTheDemon
Banned deucer.
With Baton Pass being limited to one Pokemon on a team now, I think it's safe to drop Scolipede and Espeon to D.
Espeon yes, Scolipede no. Espeon can drop to low C- ranking I believe while Scolipede is deserving of A- by being a force of reckoning as it can attempt to clean with its own boosts, and or once its job is done, it can pass them on to one more willing to get the job done. While I don't think its worth dropping, it might be able to get B+ but certainly not D.
Scolipede has offensive LO set which is a set way too good for D. Scolipede should never go that low, even if Baton Pass, the move itself, gets banned.
Also it can still quickpass, and is really good at that.
Also it can still quickpass, and is really good at that.
Scolipede was never high in ranking for its Baton Passing capabilities. The offensive LO set is an excellent late game cleaner that uses its speed and excellent coverage to be able to sweep weakened teams, and is definitely one of the best at what it does. With Megahorn, EQ, and Poison Jab, Scolipede is a very dangerous late game cleaner that can be fit onto an offensive team and excel. It can also use a QuickPass set with Swords Dance+Speed Boost to become a solo passer to pass to another Pokemon like Terrakion. It should stay in its current rank, maybe drop to B+ but never lower. Baton Pass was actually Scolipede's worst set in my opinion and never the reason for its high ranking.
Espeon, on the other hand, is really awful, and should be moved to at least E (it is that bad). It cannot function well at all, since it is a terrible Pokemon at bouncing hazards, since every hazard setter crushes it. It has an awful defensive typing, and provides no team synergy at all. It's a terrible and situational Dual Screens user that has no real niche at all, and in general it's just a poor Pokemon. I don't feel like elaborating more, but Espeon is just that terrible. (Okay, this might be kinda harsh once Deos get banned, if that's the case, it might be worthy of C- or D).
Espeon, on the other hand, is really awful, and should be moved to at least E (it is that bad). It cannot function well at all, since it is a terrible Pokemon at bouncing hazards, since every hazard setter crushes it. It has an awful defensive typing, and provides no team synergy at all. It's a terrible and situational Dual Screens user that has no real niche at all, and in general it's just a poor Pokemon. I don't feel like elaborating more, but Espeon is just that terrible. (Okay, this might be kinda harsh once Deos get banned, if that's the case, it might be worthy of C- or D).
Finally people can stop pushing that god-awful Pokemon down our throats.
Yes, Espeon should drop to C-, not D. The one thing it has going for it is that it can actually be a huge pain for stall with a set of CM | Morning Sun | Stored Power | Sub / Dazzling Gleam. But other than that it's useless and I would only ever use that if I was trying to counter team someone I knew was going to use stall. Scolipede on the other hand is actually pretty cool with just an offensive LO set, but it's definitely not A-. I wouldn't say it's any better than, say, B where Lucario and Mega Heracross are. It's definitely not two ranks better than them.
Yes, Espeon should drop to C-, not D. The one thing it has going for it is that it can actually be a huge pain for stall with a set of CM | Morning Sun | Stored Power | Sub / Dazzling Gleam. But other than that it's useless and I would only ever use that if I was trying to counter team someone I knew was going to use stall. Scolipede on the other hand is actually pretty cool with just an offensive LO set, but it's definitely not A-. I wouldn't say it's any better than, say, B where Lucario and Mega Heracross are. It's definitely not two ranks better than them.
Keep Scolipede in A-, LO set still wrecks late game, it can still quick pass, and it still can hazard support.
Espeon can go to D as all it can do is bounce hazards from Deoxys which is predictable and any smart player will either attack, set up (if it can), or preserve their hazard setter until Espeon is removed. Once Deoxys is banned, Espeon for E
Espeon can go to D as all it can do is bounce hazards from Deoxys which is predictable and any smart player will either attack, set up (if it can), or preserve their hazard setter until Espeon is removed. Once Deoxys is banned, Espeon for E
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