i beat u with lanturn on ladder ur bad xDD
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World Cup of 1v1 V - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Official Glyx
- Start date
- Status
XSTATIC COLD
Banned deucer.
dude you won with lanturn, reminding me you are Kentari, but with less skill.
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FOR ADV
West will persevere this year
XSTATIC COLD
Banned deucer.
the pic is ugly.
the decor is ugly.
the mon is ugly.(gastrodon)
your skill at 1v1 is ugly.
the decor is ugly.
the mon is ugly.(gastrodon)
your skill at 1v1 is ugly.
thanks I appreciate the kinds words :)
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ASIA STRONG
xsc my man mistaking world cup for world war
XSTATIC COLD
Banned deucer.
Logic dude, i'm african and these americans stole my burger king. Now i live with my cows to survive.
I will fight with my weapons : tauros, miltank and bouffalant. (primeape illegal in gen 8, sad)
I will fight with my weapons : tauros, miltank and bouffalant. (primeape illegal in gen 8, sad)
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The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
With census submissions starting to stagnate considerably, I'd say it's about time we see the results!
Census responses for each region:
India - 33
US East - 24
US Northeast - 15
Brazil - 11
US West - 11
US Central - 9
US South - 9
The rest of Asia - 8
Canada - 8
Northwest Europe - 8
East Europe - 7
South Europe - 7
Oceania - 1
While this of course is not entirely representative of what the final signup numbers will be, it at least helps to give us an idea of what to expect. While unfortunately there's a bit of guesswork that needs to be done as a result of the dinguses who didn't do the census, the teams that I'm feeling are operating on the slimmest margins are: East Europe, Canada + Oceania, and Northwest Europe:
If Team Brazil falls through or is generally disliked for whatever reason, then that forces us down one of two paths, being either resorting to the first option listed above and hoping for the best between Cone and NWEU, or considering the splitting of US East to form the two teams of US Northeast and US South. Borders for these regions would fall along the same or similar lines as the US census regions, being what the main Smogon World Cup uses:
Given the distributions of states between Northeast and South, it is safe to say that Northeast would be just fine, given that the brunt of US East signups as is (as well as the census responses) mostly come from that Northern region. Conversely, US South struggles a bit more in turnout, putting up 9 responses, as opposed to Northeast's 15. If it were just US South on its own, it may be a bit precarious in terms of numbers, though the inclusion of Latin America would almost certainly at least ensure that they meet the bare minimum. In terms of quality, the players who filled out the census are all relatively known and capable players, so quality at least shouldn't be too big of an issue. The only point of discussion from there is whether or not people (both affected and unaffected) want it to happen over a prospective Team Brazil if we go with the choice of creating Team Pacific with the rest of Asia, Oceania, and Canada.
Be sure to leave your thoughts on a potential Team Brazil, Team India, what to do with the rest of Asia, splitting East, or anything else that you think could work! We're considering our options very carefully, and getting as much feedback as possible would be much obliged!
Census responses for each region:
India - 33
US East - 24
US Northeast - 15
Brazil - 11
US West - 11
US Central - 9
US South - 9
The rest of Asia - 8
Canada - 8
Northwest Europe - 8
East Europe - 7
South Europe - 7
Oceania - 1
While this of course is not entirely representative of what the final signup numbers will be, it at least helps to give us an idea of what to expect. While unfortunately there's a bit of guesswork that needs to be done as a result of the dinguses who didn't do the census, the teams that I'm feeling are operating on the slimmest margins are: East Europe, Canada + Oceania, and Northwest Europe:
- East Europe is no surprise, having the least signups from last year, as well as the least census submissions out of any team both years. With a considerable chunk of their lineup either being banned or losing interest, things have become especially dire, where there are valid concerns to be had that the team might not even get enough signups period, let alone with seasoned players.
- Canada + Oceania have always teetered back and forth when it comes to turnout. While last year they looked to be their strongest, this year they'll be missing a strong group of players as a result of multiple people retiring, losing interest, or simply not having as good of an opportunity to play. While the team has managed to perform well despite a lack of seasoned players (WC3), this of course doesn't mean that sticking a team with mostly unknown or untested players is ideal. While I do think Canada + Oceania will be able to pull out the minimum number of players to fill a team, the underlying issue here is ensuring quality.
- Northwest Europe goes towards the opposite of what I described for Cone, being that while they do have a solid group of high level players, they somewhat lack quantity in terms of total turnout. While I feel it's very unlikely that they don't reach the minimum number of players needed to field a team, I do think that it could potentially be a bit precarious, and definitely something to keep an eye on.
- South Europe, while the numbers may make it look dire, it is still missing submissions from a considerable number of significant people from the team. Unless there are some considerable concerns raised over the team's continued existence, I don't think there's really much to worry about just yet.
- Adding the rest of Asia onto East Europe: This was an idea thrown around from last WC that ultimately never went through, but could serve to be useful here. It's a geographically sound idea, given East Europe's proximity to Asia, and would also help to solve the issue of East Europe's lacking turnout, thus killing two birds with one stone, though there's also the slight problem in how this doesn't really help alleviate my concerns over Cone and NWEU.
- Adding the rest of Asia onto Cone + merging East and Northwest Europe: The idea here is to merge Asia with Oceania to form a sort-of Team Pacific, though since Canada has always been with Oceania, it makes sense to keep them together, in addition to preventing us from needing to mess around by tacking Canada onto somewhere else. As for East and Northwest Europe, the hopes there are to combine the other two teams I was concerned with into one, thus solving the issues of turnout for both. The main issue here is that this leaves us with 7 teams, resulting in us having to consider a potential US South, or another contender that will be described below.
If Team Brazil falls through or is generally disliked for whatever reason, then that forces us down one of two paths, being either resorting to the first option listed above and hoping for the best between Cone and NWEU, or considering the splitting of US East to form the two teams of US Northeast and US South. Borders for these regions would fall along the same or similar lines as the US census regions, being what the main Smogon World Cup uses:
Be sure to leave your thoughts on a potential Team Brazil, Team India, what to do with the rest of Asia, splitting East, or anything else that you think could work! We're considering our options very carefully, and getting as much feedback as possible would be much obliged!
Team India HYPE
Edit so that this looks useful: India's always had a rather large number of players in 1v1, and despite all that Nyaasia gang has done in letting us play (love you DEG), we've rarely gotten the change to play a lot of our players. Having a team this time around sounds epic!
As for the others, I can't really comment much - CONE is part of the 'teams' I have in my mind, and if they had to split it'd be sad.
Edit so that this looks useful: India's always had a rather large number of players in 1v1, and despite all that Nyaasia gang has done in letting us play (love you DEG), we've rarely gotten the change to play a lot of our players. Having a team this time around sounds epic!
As for the others, I can't really comment much - CONE is part of the 'teams' I have in my mind, and if they had to split it'd be sad.
I'll keep it short. Here's what I think the teams should be this World Cup.
US West
US Midwest
US South + Latin America
US Northeast
South Europe + Africa
NotSouth Europe (aka NWEU + EEU)
India
Asia (-India) + Oceania + Canada (Team Pacific?)
There are a few variations on this that are possible, but that one is my favorite. Here are some other options.
- Team Brazil instead of the US East split. I prefer the East Split because, even though US South is probably weak, I think it will be significantly more competitive than Brazil, as well as concerns about whether the Brazilian players will try.
- Canada goes to US South instead of Team Pacific. This one would help remedy US South weakness a lot, but I think this makes nearly no geographic sense. The CONE merge was out of necessity as neither Oceania or Canada would produce a roster on their own. US South will definitely be able to get a roster together, so I don't think something this gerrymander-ey is necessary.
US West
US Midwest
US South + Latin America
US Northeast
South Europe + Africa
NotSouth Europe (aka NWEU + EEU)
India
Asia (-India) + Oceania + Canada (Team Pacific?)
There are a few variations on this that are possible, but that one is my favorite. Here are some other options.
- Team Brazil instead of the US East split. I prefer the East Split because, even though US South is probably weak, I think it will be significantly more competitive than Brazil, as well as concerns about whether the Brazilian players will try.
- Canada goes to US South instead of Team Pacific. This one would help remedy US South weakness a lot, but I think this makes nearly no geographic sense. The CONE merge was out of necessity as neither Oceania or Canada would produce a roster on their own. US South will definitely be able to get a roster together, so I don't think something this gerrymander-ey is necessary.
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First of all, I'd like to thank Indians for being such a core part of Asia for the past years, I'll personally miss you and your support and wish you the best. I'm here if you need any help. With that being said, and following the census I think that the most logical way to proceed is 8 teams:
US West
US Midwest
US South + Latin America
US Northeast
Unsouth Europe (EEUK)
South Europe
India
Asia (-India) + CONE
We discussed these teams in the 1v1 Discord bunch of time and the census really affirmed that these teams are the best options we have. As we said before, balancing teams following power levels isn't something that WC should do because that's the nature of the tournament, instead we have to take a look at number of players and whether the team can be atleast reach standards, I can for example Asia last year when it was pretty bad skill leveled wise but we had a slim way out, we worked hard and got new people which really boosted our chances. This can be applied for US South, and potentially a South Europe without their main actors, as long as the members tryhard, have knowledge about 1v1 and vibe together it can be done.
Personally, I do think Brazil being a team is a bad idea. It is true that India and FRITA (2 wc) ago got their team when they asked, but there's a big difference between Brazil and the teams mentioned. India and FRITA can be/were competitive, and can reach playoffs since they have builders (which half the battle in 1v1) and can draft successful clickers (new, and old users) meanwhile Brazil is heavily reliant on support and if clickers fail to click they don't have anything to fall back on, this is uncompetitive and shouldn't be present in World Cup. Putting Brazil in South US is the better choice because the team already has builders and could make use of more people, now if they want to join or not isn't my problem but a team alone will not work, and shouldn't happen, NOT because I doubt their skills or them really trying but I doubt that they will build good teams (friendly reminder that is tournament isn't only SS, but has a bunch of old gens), and might fail at clicking.
On slots:
Is there no chance we can spice up the format here. The nature of pools can allow 3 gens best of 5 metagame to work. We can either remove bo7 SS and use new gens (8,7,6) or remove an SM and use classic (5,6,7), or cut DPP and use 4, 5, 6. I do think that this format is highly more competitive, more entertaining and, less cteaming, or matchup based.
US West
US Midwest
US South + Latin America
US Northeast
Unsouth Europe (EEUK)
South Europe
India
Asia (-India) + CONE
We discussed these teams in the 1v1 Discord bunch of time and the census really affirmed that these teams are the best options we have. As we said before, balancing teams following power levels isn't something that WC should do because that's the nature of the tournament, instead we have to take a look at number of players and whether the team can be atleast reach standards, I can for example Asia last year when it was pretty bad skill leveled wise but we had a slim way out, we worked hard and got new people which really boosted our chances. This can be applied for US South, and potentially a South Europe without their main actors, as long as the members tryhard, have knowledge about 1v1 and vibe together it can be done.
Personally, I do think Brazil being a team is a bad idea. It is true that India and FRITA (2 wc) ago got their team when they asked, but there's a big difference between Brazil and the teams mentioned. India and FRITA can be/were competitive, and can reach playoffs since they have builders (which half the battle in 1v1) and can draft successful clickers (new, and old users) meanwhile Brazil is heavily reliant on support and if clickers fail to click they don't have anything to fall back on, this is uncompetitive and shouldn't be present in World Cup. Putting Brazil in South US is the better choice because the team already has builders and could make use of more people, now if they want to join or not isn't my problem but a team alone will not work, and shouldn't happen, NOT because I doubt their skills or them really trying but I doubt that they will build good teams (friendly reminder that is tournament isn't only SS, but has a bunch of old gens), and might fail at clicking.
On slots:
Is there no chance we can spice up the format here. The nature of pools can allow 3 gens best of 5 metagame to work. We can either remove bo7 SS and use new gens (8,7,6) or remove an SM and use classic (5,6,7), or cut DPP and use 4, 5, 6. I do think that this format is highly more competitive, more entertaining and, less cteaming, or matchup based.
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doc1203
Banned deucer.
Rosa is posting the census, but the art is still pending. Where is the art? Who is holding it hostage? When will it release?With census submissions starting to stagnate considerably, I'd say it's about time we see the results!
Census responses for each region:
India - 33
US East - 24
US Northeast - 15
Brazil - 11
US West - 11
US Central - 9
US South - 9
The rest of Asia - 8
Canada - 8
Northwest Europe - 8
East Europe - 7
South Europe - 7
Oceania - 1
While this of course is not entirely representative of what the final signup numbers will be, it at least helps to give us an idea of what to expect. While unfortunately there's a bit of guesswork that needs to be done as a result of the dinguses who didn't do the census, the teams that I'm feeling are operating on the slimmest margins are: East Europe, Canada + Oceania, and Northwest Europe:
With everything above in mind, I think the first thing that's likely been made clear is that India by far is coming in with the most responses out of any region, even more than US East! Given this massive wave of responses, as well as the whispers I've heard that people from India are looking to form their own team, I think it's absolutely reasonable that we let them have their shot! This, however, would unfortunately leave the rest of Asia in a bit of a bad place in terms of both filling a team and making it viable, as well as there being 9 teams! Given this issue, the rest of Asia would need to be added on to another team in order to bring us back to the ideal 8, leaving us a couple options:
- East Europe is no surprise, having the least signups from last year, as well as the least census submissions out of any team both years. With a considerable chunk of their lineup either being banned or losing interest, things have become especially dire, where there are valid concerns to be had that the team might not even get enough signups period, let alone with seasoned players.
- Canada + Oceania have always teetered back and forth when it comes to turnout. While last year they looked to be their strongest, this year they'll be missing a strong group of players as a result of multiple people retiring, losing interest, or simply not having as good of an opportunity to play. While the team has managed to perform well despite a lack of seasoned players (WC3), this of course doesn't mean that sticking a team with mostly unknown or untested players is ideal. While I do think Canada + Oceania will be able to pull out the minimum number of players to fill a team, the underlying issue here is ensuring quality.
- Northwest Europe goes towards the opposite of what I described for Cone, being that while they do have a solid group of high level players, they somewhat lack quantity in terms of total turnout. While I feel it's very unlikely that they don't reach the minimum number of players needed to field a team, I do think that it could potentially be a bit precarious, and definitely something to keep an eye on.
- South Europe, while the numbers may make it look dire, it is still missing submissions from a considerable number of significant people from the team. Unless there are some considerable concerns raised over the team's continued existence, I don't think there's really much to worry about just yet.
This brings us to a rather interesting proposition. Another rather glaring element from the census results is the surprisingly high number of responses from specifically Brazil. Many of these responses were from significant Smogon Tournaments players who like to team up as just Brazil (specifically not Latin America). While most of them don't really have a considerable amount of history in 1v1, Tours players have shown time and time again their ability to learn and adapt to new formats, and have often thrived in 1v1 settings as a result. With that said, I'd like to see what everyone thinks of a prospective Team Brazil for WC5. At the very least, it would make the 2nd proposal above possible without needing to open the can of worms that is splitting US East.
- Adding the rest of Asia onto East Europe: This was an idea thrown around from last WC that ultimately never went through, but could serve to be useful here. It's a geographically sound idea, given East Europe's proximity to Asia, and would also help to solve the issue of East Europe's lacking turnout, thus killing two birds with one stone, though there's also the slight problem in how this doesn't really help alleviate my concerns over Cone and NWEU.
- Adding the rest of Asia onto Cone + merging East and Northwest Europe: The idea here is to merge Asia with Oceania to form a sort-of Team Pacific, though since Canada has always been with Oceania, it makes sense to keep them together, in addition to preventing us from needing to mess around by tacking Canada onto somewhere else. As for East and Northwest Europe, the hopes there are to combine the other two teams I was concerned with into one, thus solving the issues of turnout for both. The main issue here is that this leaves us with 7 teams, resulting in us having to consider a potential US South, or another contender that will be described below.
If Team Brazil falls through or is generally disliked for whatever reason, then that forces us down one of two paths, being either resorting to the first option listed above and hoping for the best between Cone and NWEU, or considering the splitting of US East to form the two teams of US Northeast and US South. Borders for these regions would fall along the same or similar lines as the US census regions, being what the main Smogon World Cup uses:
Given the distributions of states between Northeast and South, it is safe to say that Northeast would be just fine, given that the brunt of US East signups as is (as well as the census responses) mostly come from that Northern region. Conversely, US South struggles a bit more in turnout, putting up 9 responses, as opposed to Northeast's 15. If it were just US South on its own, it may be a bit precarious in terms of numbers, though the inclusion of Latin America would almost certainly at least ensure that they meet the bare minimum. In terms of quality, the players who filled out the census are all relatively known and capable players, so quality at least shouldn't be too big of an issue. The only point of discussion from there is whether or not people (both affected and unaffected) want it to happen over a prospective Team Brazil if we go with the choice of creating Team Pacific with the rest of Asia, Oceania, and Canada.
Be sure to leave your thoughts on a potential Team Brazil, Team India, what to do with the rest of Asia, splitting East, or anything else that you think could work! We're considering our options very carefully, and getting as much feedback as possible would be much obliged!
About the Slots:
Still, does Gen 8 Deserve 3 slots? Switching Bo7 SS for Bo5 OR/AS seems somewhat appropriate, a lot of people (while im personally not one of them) seem to think OR/AS is the best, or one of the best 1v1 Metagames and given that it had a ladder once it is also very developed.
We could also (I know you didnt suggest this in the post) remove one Bo5 SS. I understand the Idea of giving some spotlight to SS as it is the newest Gen and yeah we can accomplish that by giving it a bo7 and then taking away a bo5, but 3 slots really seems like a lot. Also what would the ruleset for gen 8 1v1 be?
Im not sure what the council is doing with the Genesect ban, but if y'all choose to suspect, will it be early enough to have WC SS played in post
Gene-Metagame or still have Genesect allowed? My personal opinion is that WC would be ways more fun to watch / play with genesect banned,
that is highly subjective tho of course.
Im not cheering for Team Wester Europe, im cheering for Team Ban Kings Rock o.o
Assuming that genesect gets suspect tested before WC the meta game will be at least a bit different and without the limitation of genesect + fire + fire beater teams there will be a lot of room for experimentation so I think having 2 slots is a horrendous idea although having some type of multigen including SS is something I’m not exactly opposed to
Yeah if Genesect does get banned before WC 3 slots might be a good idea, in a Genesect Meta tho no thanks.
The main reason SS gets the most slots is because it has by far the biggest player base as of now. Sure gens like ORAS are cool af (and I mean it), but it will be very, very difficult to find 2 ORAS players for some regions. If we're talking about stuff replacing an SS slot, DEG's idea would probably be better at the end of the day.
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