??? The speed is still base 95 like the Normal Forme.
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White Kyurem & Black Kyurem
- Thread starter Death Phenomeno
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Kyurem-B, rather.
But yeah. It may not stand out a whole lot in Ubers, but in OU, STAB Outrage coming off 170 base Atk? You could just slap on a Choice Band and wouldn't need any other moves to break the tier. There's a reason BST 670+ (without a hindering ability) is considered automatically uber, and Kyurem's new forms have a BST of 700, higher than anything except Arceus. The original Kyurem comes close, but its stats were a disorganized mess that it couldn't use effectively. Kyurem's modified stats in its new forms... aren't.
These guys don't really care about "epic fail" movesets, as they both attain perfect coverage with two moves (boltbeam coverage for B and dragonfire for W), just like Reshiram and to a lesser extent Zekrom before them. Movepools don't matter when you smoke everything in the game with only two moves.
Kyurem-B doesn't get boltbeam.
It gets bolt, but not beam. At least, not a physical beam. And boltbeam isn't perfect anyway, although it's close.
It gets bolt, but not beam. At least, not a physical beam. And boltbeam isn't perfect anyway, although it's close.
Kyurem-b might stay ou....
What does he have goin for him?
Nice really strong outrage..
Pretty good physical electric attack...
Decent speed...
BUT i really doubt it as he can always use his amazing 120(?) special attack stat
And lets say he does stay ou ferrothorn would be popular.... LOL
What does he have goin for him?
Nice really strong outrage..
Pretty good physical electric attack...
Decent speed...
BUT i really doubt it as he can always use his amazing 120(?) special attack stat
And lets say he does stay ou ferrothorn would be popular.... LOL
The Metagame is very unpredictable. As there is still undiscovered information about these two new specimen, Determining their total ability and place in the game is difficult. My guess is they will go Uber, but then again, we don't know yet how the Metagame will react to them. It would be interesting to do a temporary BattleSimulator Mod with these two specimen added, to the best of our ability, and see how everyone reacts.
i still think that Black/ white Kyurem will be like the regular, OU, their attack stats are titanic, but that ice typing and slightly above average for OU defense will be easy prey to any pokemon that out speeds it and runs something of the likes of stone edge, such as Durant,
then on second thought with a 700 base total, it will probably be uber if it was less like 660 or 680 then ou but 700 is uber,
then on second thought with a 700 base total, it will probably be uber if it was less like 660 or 680 then ou but 700 is uber,
Again, Kyurem-W, no matter it's "defensive weaknesses" has no business anywhere near OU. Unless you'd enjoy taking Draco Meteor/Fusion Flare/Blizzard (Ice Beam) from a 170 SpA Poke?
The only think that makes Kyurem-B slightly debatable is its horrid physical movepool, which forces it to go mixed, but Outrage/Fusion Bolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire is still a damn strong set. Hell just the first two is enough, pokes already don't like taking Banded Outrages from Haxorus, how do you think they'll like it from Kyurem-B?
The only think that makes Kyurem-B slightly debatable is its horrid physical movepool, which forces it to go mixed, but Outrage/Fusion Bolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire is still a damn strong set. Hell just the first two is enough, pokes already don't like taking Banded Outrages from Haxorus, how do you think they'll like it from Kyurem-B?
ss234
bop.
With 170 attack this thing isn't even close to OU-both of them. 700 base stats? These things aren't even close. White Kyurem has no counters, and you can't say that it has a horrible defensive typing. It's pretty damn bulky, and at the same speed as Rayquaza. Basically, both of these have a SR weakness, incredible stats and a resistance to water and grass. Kyurem however has even better stats. You can't say that it has a terrible movepool really-Outrage coming off 170 base attack is going to absolutely annihilate everything-even resists. If Choice Band Scizor is KO'd by a resisted Draco Meteor, then it's not going to stack up well against a similar move is it? Fusion Bolt nails Skarmory, and it still has Ice Beam for Ferrothorn coming off 120 base sp.att-that's only 10 less than Latios, and that does a ridiculous amount of damage with Draco Meteor.
White Kyurem is far, far worse. It has Draco Meteor, Fusion Flare and Ice Beam coming off 170 base sp.att. That kills the entire metagame-easily. It's defensive typing isn't even that bad. Weakness to SR isn't great, but Dragonite is still one of the most dangerous sweepers isn't it? Weakness to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch isn't great either, but it is neutral to Ice unlike Haxorus. It resists Electric, Grass and Water, which is pretty damn good in a metagame filled with rain teams. It's defenses aren't even half bad either. Like I said, this thing isn't even close to OU.
White Kyurem is far, far worse. It has Draco Meteor, Fusion Flare and Ice Beam coming off 170 base sp.att. That kills the entire metagame-easily. It's defensive typing isn't even that bad. Weakness to SR isn't great, but Dragonite is still one of the most dangerous sweepers isn't it? Weakness to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch isn't great either, but it is neutral to Ice unlike Haxorus. It resists Electric, Grass and Water, which is pretty damn good in a metagame filled with rain teams. It's defenses aren't even half bad either. Like I said, this thing isn't even close to OU.
I know...you notice the part where I said Outrage and Fusion Bolt alone would get the job done, that Outrage/Fusion Bolt/Ice Beam was still damn good, and that if no one likes taking an Outrage from Haxorus, they sure as hell won't like taking one from Kyurem-B?
Hurray context.
...Do you have a reading deficiency? Where the hell did I say it shouldn't be in Ubers?
I'm addressing no-one in particular, but if you think Kyurem-B should be tested in OU, you need to get your fingers off your keyboard and onto your mouse to play more Pokemon. Seriously, the arguments that I have seen around the place are making me either laugh or shake my head profusely. Here's what I've seen:
Kyurem-B has a chance in OU because:
1) It has no movepool
2) Ice-typing an Stealth Rock weakness
3) It is "slow"
Now let me address these:
1) It has no movepool - Does it really need a movepool outside of Outrage and Fusion Bolt? Off 170 Base Attack, you don't need anything other than those two moves. If you put on a Life Orb onto this thing, there's also Ice Beam and Hidden Power to murder whatever's left. No movepool is only applicable when the moves in whatever movepool do not fit the Pokemon's needs. Wobbuffet has one of the tiniest movepools ever, doesn't stop it being amazing. 48.76% - 57.43% is how much Choice Band Outrage does to standard SpD Jirachi. Have a think about that.
2) Ice-typing and Stealth Rock weakness - Again, I love how people put forth arguments that make other Pokemon bad to make the Pokemon they are analysing look bad. It's pretty much as silly as saying "grapefruit tastes bad, grapefruits are fruits, so therefore all fruits taste bad". Yes Ice/Dragon is a relatively poor defensive typing, yes it is Stealth Rock weak, but what about everything else? Have we forgotten Ice and Dragon are two of the best offensive typings in the game? Yes, they are redundant, but with Kyurem-B's stats, it seriously doesn't matter at all. Ho-oh is 4x Stealth Rock weak, Rayquaza is also 2x Stealth Rock weak. Do they care? Probably, but there's no way in hell we're testing those two, and the same goes for Kyurem-B.
3) It is "slow" - 95 Base Speed is not slow. I know it is slow compared to many other Pokemon in OU, but there many others slower than it. It's going to be likely that you have at least a couple of Pokemon that are slower than Kyurem-B on your team (or faster, but cannot kill Kyurem-B) which it can come in and go "WTF BOOM" and kill something on your team. Even then, it can run a Scarf set and clean up lategame if it needs to.
I'm not even going to bother talking about Kyurem-W, because there's no point. I've used it in Ubers and there is nothing that can stop up to this thing ever, don't even think about OU.
Kyurem-B has a chance in OU because:
1) It has no movepool
2) Ice-typing an Stealth Rock weakness
3) It is "slow"
Now let me address these:
1) It has no movepool - Does it really need a movepool outside of Outrage and Fusion Bolt? Off 170 Base Attack, you don't need anything other than those two moves. If you put on a Life Orb onto this thing, there's also Ice Beam and Hidden Power to murder whatever's left. No movepool is only applicable when the moves in whatever movepool do not fit the Pokemon's needs. Wobbuffet has one of the tiniest movepools ever, doesn't stop it being amazing. 48.76% - 57.43% is how much Choice Band Outrage does to standard SpD Jirachi. Have a think about that.
2) Ice-typing and Stealth Rock weakness - Again, I love how people put forth arguments that make other Pokemon bad to make the Pokemon they are analysing look bad. It's pretty much as silly as saying "grapefruit tastes bad, grapefruits are fruits, so therefore all fruits taste bad". Yes Ice/Dragon is a relatively poor defensive typing, yes it is Stealth Rock weak, but what about everything else? Have we forgotten Ice and Dragon are two of the best offensive typings in the game? Yes, they are redundant, but with Kyurem-B's stats, it seriously doesn't matter at all. Ho-oh is 4x Stealth Rock weak, Rayquaza is also 2x Stealth Rock weak. Do they care? Probably, but there's no way in hell we're testing those two, and the same goes for Kyurem-B.
3) It is "slow" - 95 Base Speed is not slow. I know it is slow compared to many other Pokemon in OU, but there many others slower than it. It's going to be likely that you have at least a couple of Pokemon that are slower than Kyurem-B on your team (or faster, but cannot kill Kyurem-B) which it can come in and go "WTF BOOM" and kill something on your team. Even then, it can run a Scarf set and clean up lategame if it needs to.
I'm not even going to bother talking about Kyurem-W, because there's no point. I've used it in Ubers and there is nothing that can stop up to this thing ever, don't even think about OU.
I hate making long posts, and I hate doing quote wars, which is why I'll condense stuff.
- I'd also like to point out (to the debate) that BST (and tier status to an extent) has no jurisdiction on a Pokemon's actual viability, so I would greatly advise those to stop using arguments based on the stat total of Kyurem and comparable Pokemon.
- No matter how much you look at it, 170 Attack is 170 Attack. Something is definitely going down, and teams will definitely have to set up some sort of defense for that.
- Kyurem-B's coverage may be limited, but the options presented to it are all it needs. In practice, Electric + Dragon moves will prove to be a headache.
- Read shrang's post regarding Kyurem's apparently "bad" typing.
looking back at my post now, i really think they are going to be in ubers, and i guarantee that its biggest nemesis in ubers is going to be blaziken, speed boost plus hi jump kick, kyurem will be definitely hard pressed, it doesnt matter if its kyurem b or kyurem w, after 1 speed boost turn thanks to protect, blaziken will 1 shot kyurem with hi jump kick, but i do think however that kyurem w will be banned for good
i just wish black/ white kyurem were weaker stat wise like the original kyurem, because kyurem is one of my favorite pokemon to use ever in OU, its like a mini rayquaza, salemence can outspeed it but kyurem has the bulk to surpass that
i just wish black/ white kyurem were weaker stat wise like the original kyurem, because kyurem is one of my favorite pokemon to use ever in OU, its like a mini rayquaza, salemence can outspeed it but kyurem has the bulk to surpass that
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Scarf Fusion Flare in the sun does up to 87% damage to Blaziken and that's the weakest attack either Kyurem forme can use against the chicken mind you.
The best Blaziken can do is revenge kill them, but so can Palkia or most scarfers. Revenge killing them is not hard, it's switching in and live to tell the tale that is almost impossible if you come in on even a neutral move.
The best Blaziken can do is revenge kill them, but so can Palkia or most scarfers. Revenge killing them is not hard, it's switching in and live to tell the tale that is almost impossible if you come in on even a neutral move.
A +1 speed Blaziken won't outspeed a Scarf Kyurem anyway if they are both using a speed enhancing nature as Blaziken's base speed is 80.
Revenging them could be even more difficult than most people assume.I know a regular Kyurem could survive CB Scizor Bullet Punch and Conkeldurr Mach Punch with minimal investment.If you can keep SR off the field, not much in OU can one-shot you without the risk of getting one-shot itself.
Revenging them could be even more difficult than most people assume.I know a regular Kyurem could survive CB Scizor Bullet Punch and Conkeldurr Mach Punch with minimal investment.If you can keep SR off the field, not much in OU can one-shot you without the risk of getting one-shot itself.
i really retract my last statement, anyway, kyurem w and b are going to be uber, i dont think they will be banned, look at kyogre when ruby saphire emerald came out, nothing could stand up to it in a straight up fight everything would be ohko or 2hko in ubers by kyogre, but now we have pokemon that can wall it, like arceus, gastrodon, and others,
kyurem w and B will be extremely powerful but i know there will be plenty of pokemon in the uber tier that can beat it in a fight ( arceus can take a hit and dish a judgement for a 1hko) needless to say even with the pokemon in the uber tiers now,they wont be banned like i said earlier but those two should be banned because their attack stats are absolutely outrageous
kyurem w and B will be extremely powerful but i know there will be plenty of pokemon in the uber tier that can beat it in a fight ( arceus can take a hit and dish a judgement for a 1hko) needless to say even with the pokemon in the uber tiers now,they wont be banned like i said earlier but those two should be banned because their attack stats are absolutely outrageous
We agreed by default at the beginning of B/W that anything except Regigigas with 670+ BST would be Ubers. :P Kyurem's forms both have 700+, and 170 Base Attack is pretty scary in OU. O_O
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/661226-pokemon-black-version-2/63263875
Might be very interesting if true. I don't know if this applies to just the kyurem forms though. Having STAB on ice, dragon, and electric/fire is pretty amazing. Can anyone test this in game?
Might be very interesting if true. I don't know if this applies to just the kyurem forms though. Having STAB on ice, dragon, and electric/fire is pretty amazing. Can anyone test this in game?
Hmm... they suggest it might stack with STAB, but that sounds unlikely; I'm sure we would've noticed the absurdly high damage from Reshiram and Zekrom earlier in that case. But this does sound like it would make Kyurem-W even more insane and give Kyurem-B more of a point, while also explaining why they get the abilities they do.
Just tested this with a lv 70 Black Kyurem using Fusion Bolt against standard Bulk Up Conkeldurr, the damage was exactly what a damage Calc would give as possible damage without STAB when using Fusion Bolt.
Calc for the Black Kyurem I used for this vs Conk:
262 Atk vs 226 Def & 381 HP (100 Base Power): 60 - 71 (15.75% - 18.64%)
Inb4 hoax, summary of said Black Kyurem
Just to be sure, testing with White Kyurem as well.
Calc:
261 Atk vs 216 Def & 325 HP (100 Base Power): 31 - 37 (9.54% - 11.38%)
I think the guy who started the rumor at GameFAQs thought it was a pseudo-STAB boost because TurboBlaze negated the Snorlax's Thick Fat, is all.
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