What have we learned from Gen. V?

[FrostFire]

what i learned is that i want to murder the people at gamefreak behind the sleep mechanics changes.

i hate gen 5 sleep more than ANY OTHER CHANGE in Gen V.

having to stay in to wake up is utter bullshit and overpowers sleep.

having a key mon slept for more than 1 turn equals death almost all the time.

i pray to god nothing ever gets prankster spore/sleep powder/dark void.

Firstly, I second this disgust at the changing of the sleep mechanics. Sleep was already over-powered, and Troll Freak just went and made it even better, essentially to the point where a sleeping pokemon is a dead pokemon.

Secondly... Oh god, Prankster [Sleep Move] would be ridiculously OP; send it out turn one, essentially Insta-Kill a pokemon.

But I digress...


Though I've been playing pokemon since Gen II, Gen V is the first generation in which I've played pokemon competitively, so I can't really compare to other generations' metagames. That said, I feel that this generation has taught me a lot about strategy (even if I'm still not very good at it ;) ). What with Team Preview, weather wars, and the various kinds of team archetypes that one plays against (Volturn, Hyper Offense, Bulky Offense, Sand/ Rain/ Sun based teams, which may be stall/ offensively focussed etc) it really encourages thinking. To be someone who goes a bit against the grain here, I think OU has become a pretty awesome competitive tier, where a combination of skill, calculated predictions, and a keen eye for team-building are all rewarded. Sure, you may occasionally lose to luck, but that's just to be expected, and to be honest, I think we're at a point where any luck-based wins are few-and-far-between enough that there's really no cause for concern.

 

[Bologo]

I agree that Prankster Sleep would be quite annoying. The only pokemon with such a combination is currently unreleased. Liepard has Prankster + Yawn. I know it's not quite the same as Prankster + Spore, but it's definitely worth it for stuffing large setup attempts.

Honestly though, I don't find the new Sleep mechanic to be that bad. The main reason being that the amount of turns the pokemon stays asleep has been reduced in Gen V, and with my luck, my opponent often stays asleep for 1 turn only, which is really annoying. If it was the new sleep mechanic + Gen 4 amount of sleep turns, then it would be much worse.

 

[Cshadow]

I agree that Prankster Sleep would be quite annoying. The only pokemon with such a combination is currently unreleased. Liepard has Prankster + Yawn. I know it's not quite the same as Prankster + Spore, but it's definitely worth it for stuffing large setup attempts.

Can I ask what Prankster Yawn is capable of doing that a normal Yawn doesn't already do? I mean, aside from going first, the Pokemon is going to be asleep by the end of the next turn unless they switch out regardless.

 

[Bologo]

Can I ask what Prankster Yawn is capable of doing that a normal Yawn doesn't already do? I mean, aside from going first, the Pokemon is going to be asleep by the end of the next turn unless they switch out regardless.

Let's say they have a Dragonite that has enough DDs to be both faster than your entire team & strong enough to kill everything. If you want to stop it from doing so, you can use Yawn. Yawn without Prankster would get you killed because the Dragonite would be too fast. Yawn with Prankster means you can make Dragonite drowsy despite the fact that it's faster than everything. Now it can't kill your entire team. It's basically an emergency check. I personally wouldn't use it, but it might be useful in lower tiers.

And lol saying "aside from going first" is pretty stupid when that's literally the whole point of Prankster.

 

[Murkglow]

I think he was just talking about how Yawn itself won't do anything special via prankster since it works on a set timing system, unlike say Spore or Sleep Powder which will stop an opponent's attack outright thanks to being able to put them to sleep as soon as it hits.

Anyway, I agree that I'm not finding the new sleep mechanics all that bad (or at least not much worse then it already was).

 

[ElectivireRocks]

Firstly, I second this disgust at the changing of the sleep mechanics. Sleep was already over-powered, and Troll Freak just went and made it even better, essentially to the point where a sleeping pokemon is a dead pokemon.

Secondly... Oh god, Prankster [Sleep Move] would be ridiculously OP; send it out turn one, essentially Insta-Kill a pokemon.

Let's not blow things out of proportions. Comparing Sleep to KO is retarded. You actually have ways around sleep via abilities (Hydration, Leaf Guard, Poison Heal+Toxic Orb, Guts+Flame/Toxic Orb, Magic Guard+Flame/Toxic Orb, Insomnia, Vital Spirit, Natural Cure and Magic Bounce), moves (Sleep Talk) and items (Chesto Berry, Lum Berry).

More than half of those are competitive tools that see large use in the current metagame. If your team lacks a sleep absorber then it's your own fault for not being prepared about it.

 

[DDRMaster]

I don't think Prankster + Spore would be a whole lot worse than regular Spore. Breloom's still fast enough to outspeed many walls and force them out with the threat of Spore. Prankster + Spore would just mean that you don't get a chance to try and KO it if you're faster than them. In either case, if you don't have something that can absorb/reflect Sleep (Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon are great for this), then you're likely going to have one of your Pokemon crippled.

Prankster + Yawn is basically the same as Prankster + Haze/Thunder Wave/Tailwind. You sacrifice a Pokemon to stop your opponent from sweeping your whole team.

I think Gen 5 has taught us that priority as a whole is amazing. Sure we had things like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario and Dragonite's Extremespeed in Gen 4, but we didn't have things like priority Substitute, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, etc. that can either make scouting easier or cripple fast Pokemon. Sableye has become a good physical wall simply because it can cut the opponent's Atk in half before they get a chance to attack it and can become difficult to kill if it runs both Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I think the episode at the beginning with auto-banning Pokemon to Ubers (e.g. Mewtwo, Kyogre, etc.) taught us a lot. In the sense that we decided not to ban absolutely everything that people were suggested, and some of them didn't even make it to OU in the end!

I hope we learn from this and maybe in Generation VI we can be confident enough to start off with absolutely everything in OU. I know whenever there's a new generation some people like to get to a "stable" OU metagame to play in as quick as possible, and they're 99% sure that Kyogre, etc. are broken so want to ban them straight away, but we can work together and get an quick, yet thorough, testing process of some sort organized for next time I think.

 

[Dragontongue195040]

I don't know if people have said this yet, but
1. WEATHER
2. Extremeties
A. Hazards
B. DW
C. Power creep

1. WEATHER- the toed, the tale, and the tar
Sandstorm was pretty solid back in gen IV, but in the new gen we have drizzle and drought to really screw ourselves up with. With this new weather came an immense power creep, boosting old, unused pokemon like venasaur and toxicroak and also adding new powerhouses to abus the weather changes- such as Lilligant, Jellicent, Thunderus, Excadrill, Tornadus, Landorus... To name a few. Speed was doubled. Attack was raised. HP was gained, and sometimes lost. Now, most people use weather teams, compared to the one or two gimmicky players that tried sunny day back in gen IV.

2. Extremeties
A. Never before has it been more necessary to keep hazards up and away. Many new threats, such as volcarona or multiscale dragonite, are crippled severely by hazards. Also, with even stronger walls now such as ferrothorn, pokemon have much more time to set up.
B. Dreamworld has opened a ton of new opportunities. A ton of new pokemon rank high only because their DW ability: Sableye, Dragonite, and Venasaur to name a few. It had also provided new moves, filling up coverage for needy pokes. The next time you're 6-0 because you underestimate the power of dreams, you'll know who to thank.
C. Power creep- stats go as high as 140 in the new pokemon, and many older pokemon struggle to keep up. With Haxorus rampaging in OU and chandelure in UU, Gamefreak has finally showed its freaky side. Walls wall, sweepers sweep, and stallers stall. I haven't heard of a match ever surpassing 75 turns in Gen IV, but now stall matches go as far as 100 turns.

 

[I Am]

We learned that metagames can become centralized as fuck without people giving a fuck.