Vivillon [QC 1/3]

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chuckaboomboom

I believe I can HM02
Misaka Mikoto: chuckaboomboom
Misaka Mikoto: You been a very bad person.
chuckaboomboom: uh oh
Misaka Mikoto: I am disappointed in you.
Shackul: dun dun dunnn
Misaka Mikoto: Like why are you even doing Vivillon on the analyses and not put its polar pattern on it?
Misaka Mikoto: I'm so mad at you now.




[OVERVIEW]
-Vivillon is used in battle spot singles as a Sleep Powder user that can set up via Quiver Dance. What sets Vivillon apart from other Quiver Dancers such as Volcorona and Venomoth is its access to a reliable sleeping move. Vivillon's niche is Compound Eyes, giving a 97% accurate Sleep Powder backed by average speed, which allows it to set up with Quiver Dance more easily.
-Its offensive stats aren't great, but the combination of a good boosting move and a good STAB Hurricane gives Vivillon offensive pressure.
-Vivillon is easily walled by steel, rock, and electric type Pokemon such as Aegislash, Tyranitar, and Zapdos due to the fact that Vivillon usually only runs Hurricane for offense.
-It is extremely frail and can not be switched in on most attacks. It can function as a lead.
-If using Leftovers on Vivillon, it is imperative that it comes in on a slower Pokemon.
-If using Focus Sash, Vivillon becomes safer to use since it can be guaranteed to survive a hit and put something to sleep. However, with no recovery and with a limited number of Substitutes that can be made, Vivillon has a short life span. Setting up with Vivillon can be tricky since it needs to set up against slower Pokemon, such as Conkeldurr, and cannot take on faster Pokemon, such as Talonflame without a Focus Sash due to it being KOed before it can put them to sleep.
-Though Stealth Rock is an uncommon move to see in Battle Spot Singles, a rogue Stealth Rock will significantly hinder Vivillon's effectiveness due to its Bug/Flying-typing making it take 50% damage when it switches in. Additionally, opponents have a tendency to set up Stealth Rocks when they see Vivillon in team preview.
-Vivillon is in an awkward speed tier, but its speed becomes respectable after a boost. Vivillon is outsped by positive nature base 100s. However, Vivillon outspeeds neutral nature base 100s. For example, Vivillon is outsped by Thundurus-I, but it outspeeds Hippopowdon.

[SET]
name: Sleep 'n Weep
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 44 HP / 212 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

-Sleep Powder allows Vivillon to neuter a threat temporarily and put it to sleep. Vivillon's ability boosts the accuracy of Sleep Powder from 75% to 97%.
-Quiver Dance boosts Vivillon's Special Attack, Special Defence, and Speed to respectable levels.
-Hurricane is a strong STAB move with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent. Vivillon's ability boosts the move's accuracy from 70% to 91%.
-Substitute protects Vivillon from wake ups and allows Vivillon to survive the hit and put the foe to sleep again. It makes Vivillon have a safer time setting up and grants it some longevity.

Set Details
========

-44 HP Evs gives Vivillon a Leftovers number161 HP which that provides maximum recovery from Leftovers. Vivillon runs max Special Attack and Speed EVs to boost its underwhelming offensive stat and speedmake it as fast as possible / outspeed certain Pokemon (list examples). The rest goes in SpA to boost its offense as much as possible. There is no point investing in bulk on Vivillon since it is extremely frail.
-Compound eyes boosts the accuracy of Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Hurricane and give Vivillon consistency.
-Leftovers gives Vivillon passive recovery and allows it to create more Substitutes / heals damage while the opponent sleeps.

Usage Tips
========
-When using Leftovers, Vivillon needs to come in on a slower Pokemon such as ___ , It can put a slowerthese Pokemon to sleep, set up a Substitute, then boost with Quiver Dance. Vivillon can continue to put the opponent to sleep and set up Substitute as they wake up.
-After a few Quiver Dances boosts, Vivillon will outspeed most Pokemon and put them to sleep before they can make a move. The Leftovers set is unique in that Vivillon can put the opponent into an endless sleep cycle and be safe from early wake-ups due to Subsitute. With Leftovers recovery, Vivillon can set up many Substitutes and sweep through teams if played carefully. Note that Vivillon needs four turns to replenish the health lost from a Substitute, and sleep turns are not very long, reducing Mivillon's effectiveness.

Team Options
========

-Landorus-T, Heatran, and Garchomp can switch in on Steel, Rock, and Electric types that completely counter Vivillon and damage them severely with a Ground type attack.
-Heatran, Ferrothorn, and other steel types are also nice since Vivillon can switch into and check some fighting types like Conkeldurr.
-Suicune and other Pokemon weak to grass types appreciate Vivillon's ability to check grass types such as ___ .
-After Vivillon finishes disrupting the other team, have strong teammates that can clean up. E.g. Mega-Kangaskhan, Blaziken.
- Viv is super weak to Talonflame (Brave Bird) and Mamoswine (Ice Shard + Icicle Spear) so dedicated checks to them are a must. Also stuff for Sylveon, Thundurus, Mega Mence and Greninja. You currently have no teammates like this listed, just stuff for steel/rock/electrics and a handful of guys that appreciate Viv's presence. You need to focus more on what helps Viv work...

[SET]
name: Sweet Dreams really not a fan of this name, it's too similar to the lefties one and may cause confusion. maybe just a simple 'Focus Sash' or pun based on that would be better.
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Bug Buzz / Endeavor / Hidden Power Ground
item: Focus Sash
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

-Sleep Powder allows Vivillon to neuter a threat temporarily and put it to sleep. Vivillon can then set up or attack. Vivillon's ability boosts the accuracy of Sleep Powder from 75% to 98%.
-Quiver Dance boosts Vivillon's Special Attack, Special Defence, and Speed to respectable levels.
-Hurricane is a strong STAB move with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent. Vivillon's ability boosts the move's accuracy from 70% to 91%.you can pretty much CP from the lefties set except for the Sub explanation, lol.
- In the fourth slot, several moves can be used. Bug Buzz is an additional STAB option. Endeavor can be used to bring down an opponent's healthtake advantage of Viv being brought down to its Sash against Pokemon that it can't really hurt with Hurricane (such as Ttar, Zapdos, Heatran etc.) before going down. Hidden Power Ground gives fantastic coverage

Set Details
========

-Vivillon runs max Special Attack and Speed EVs to boost its underwhelming offensive stat and speed. There is no point investing in bulk on Vivillon since it is frail and will usually rely on Focus Sash to live an attack. 4 in SpD to mess up Download P2
-Compound eyes boosts the accuracy of Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Hurricane and give Vivillon consistency.

Usage Tips
========
-If Vivillon is holding a Focus Sash, it is straightforward and simple to use.
-Come in on an opposing Pokemon, preferably one that is slower than Vivillon such as..?
-Use Sleep Powder, putting the opponent to sleep. If possible, set up a Substitute after using Sleep Powder.this isn't the Sub set rofl
-If Vivillon is behind a Substitute, Vivillon can set up Quiver Dances freely. If not, Vivillon has to be wary and can only safely set up one Quiver Dance, since the opponent will have taken the guaranteed one turn of sleep. After some set up, use Hurricane to KO or get heavy damage on the opponent.
-Vivillon is frail and the Focus Sash variant depends on the item do be effective. As a result, Vivillon usually can't be hard-switched in. However, in some situations, it may be helpful to bring Vivillon in on a Fighting type or Grass type Pokemon when they are using their respective STAB attacks. Vivillon is 4x resistant to those attacks, and can retaliate with a super-effective Hurricane. what about Ground-type moves that Viv is completely immune to? Any common users of Grass-, Fighting-, or Ground-type attacks that Viv can prey on?
-Focus Sash Vivillon can perform as a decent lead. It allows Vivillon to put a threat to sleep early game and to put some dents into the opponent's team.

Team Options
========

-Landorus-T, Heatran, and Garchomp can switch in on Steel, Rock, and Electric types that completely counter Vivillon and damage them severely with a Ground type attack.
-Heatran, Ferrothorn, and other steel types are also nice since Vivillon can switch into and check some fighting types like Conkeldurr.
-Suicune and other Pokemon weak to grass types appreciate Vivillon's ability to check grass types. since this is CPed from the lefties set you can CP my comments
-After Vivillon finishes disrupting the other team, have strong teammates that can clean up. E.g. Mega-Kangaskhan, Blaziken
-Sash Vivillon can be used more recklessly. Use Pokemon that benefit from disruption rather than pokemon that complement Vivillon defensively. Strong set-up sweepers or bulky attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan make for great partners. but you definitely need checks to strongmons like I mentioned in the previous TO section otherwise you'll give way too much momentum to the opponent by just letting Viv die.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

-Bug Buzz is a secondary STAB move that can be used it bypasses Subs which is OK I guess. However, Flying and Bug doesn't grant great coverage.
-Endeavor is another option that requires the use of a Focus Sash. It can be used to bring down an opponent's HP to a low amount or 1HP after Vivillon is brought down to low health.it's on the Sash set so it doesn't stay here
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice / Rock are alternate types which can be used.
- Roost provides reliable recovery
- Double Team can be used over Sub to try and avoid attacks altogether
- Infestation can trap something while it sleeps
- Giga Drain / Dream Eater can be used for health
- Powder can be used to surprise pokemon that rely on fire-type moves and do 25% damage to them for free, creates mindgames with them
- I wanna mention Harden as an option so you are also physically bulky but lol.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Jolly Nature Mega Kangaskhan**: Jolly Mega Kangaskhan outspeeds Vivillon and gets the OHKO with either Return or Double Edge.

**Faster and Powerful attackers**: Fast and powerful Pokemon can outspeed and KO Vivillon if it is holding Leftovers, or Vivillon to 1HP if it is holding Focus Sash, leaving it easily revenge killed and vulnerable to an early wake-up. such as..???

**Thundurus-I** Thundurus-I shuts down Vivillon with Prankster Taunt, preventing it from using its status moves. Thundurus-I also resists Vivillon's STABs. and can ohko with T-bolt!!!

**Ferrothorn** Hurricane is a 3HKO on a Ferrothorn with no Special Defense Investment, while Ferrothorn can bring Vivillon down to its sash with Gyro Ball. Also, Vivillon can't put Ferrothorn to sleep due to Ferrothorn's grass typing.

**Fast Taunters** Fast Taunters that outspeed Vivillon such as Gengar prevent Vivillon from using status moves, thus shutting Vivillon down.

**Steel, Rock and Electric types** These Pokemon resist Vivillon's Flying type attack and can easily soak up damage even after a few boosts. Electric types are further problems, since they tend to be fast and can break Vivillon's Focus Sash before being put to sleep with an attack, or KO Vivillon if it is holding Leftovers. who are these Pokemon??

**Attacks that bypass Substitute** Hyper Voice, Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and so on can bypass Vivillon's Substitutes and hit it hard. list common users!

**Stealth Rocks** Stealth rock takes away 50% of Vivillon's health upon switch in. This makes Vivillon a lot harder to use. The Leftovers set can make less Substitutes while the Sash set can no longer live attacks that would normally OHKO it.

where is Talonflame and Salamence?? On paper, Viv should be a wrecking ball with reliable sleep and one of the best boosting moves in the game and one of the best one-move coverage options (CE+Hurricane), but you never see it, why is this? Because there are heaps of common mons that shit all over it. This section (C&Cs) will probably end up being a massive section due to how many things give Viv trouble, but you need to list them all...
 
Last edited:

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Wow this has been sitting around without any checks for a while o_0 did you change it from WIP to QC without posting maybe?

Anyway, I think you need to touch on Compound Eyes in the overview, is it's pretty much the main reason to use Vivillon and its Sleep Powder + Hurricane abusing powers.

The 4 HP EVs should be moved to SpD incase you find yourself in front of a Download Porygon2. It doesn't make much a difference going into HP anyway..

Swap the explanations of Focus a Sash and Leftovers in Usage Tips, since Leftovers is the main item choice so it should go first. I would have thought that you'd aim to first put something to sleep (obviously), then set up Substitute before boosting, rather than how you have 'either boost or attack'. You need the Sub up for potential early wake ups like you said which means getting one up asap imo.

I don't think Substitute + Focus Sash work together. If using Focus Sash, I think you should run Roost instead, coz if you take a surprise hit and get taken down to the Sash then you can at least get health back after putting something to Sleep. You could also run something like Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground / Fire in that slot on a Sash set. I think this could lead to the set having lots of slashes and being a bit ugly so I'm happy to see what the other QC guys think. Perhaps we could split them into a Sub set and a Focus sash set, since they have different uses and means you can avoid two different descriptions in Usage Tips. Here what I'm thinking:

name: Sleep 'n Weep
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 44 HP / 212 SpA / 252 Spe

So yeah this is the Sub set. The HP EVs help differentiate the sets, and give Vivillon the magic 16n+1 number for Sub + Leftovers (I checked the PS! stats and this spread is actually used there)

name: No one EVER suspects the Butterfly
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Roost / Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire / Endeavor
item: Focus Sash
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

And yeah this is the Sash set. Yeah there's lots of slashes in the fourth slot so we will need to whittle it down to 2-3, but they are all cool options imo...
 

chuckaboomboom

I believe I can HM02
Wow this has been sitting around without any checks for a while o_0 did you change it from WIP to QC without posting maybe?

Anyway, I think you need to touch on Compound Eyes in the overview, is it's pretty much the main reason to use Vivillon and its Sleep Powder + Hurricane abusing powers.

The 4 HP EVs should be moved to SpD incase you find yourself in front of a Download Porygon2. It doesn't make much a difference going into HP anyway..

Swap the explanations of Focus a Sash and Leftovers in Usage Tips, since Leftovers is the main item choice so it should go first. I would have thought that you'd aim to first put something to sleep (obviously), then set up Substitute before boosting, rather than how you have 'either boost or attack'. You need the Sub up for potential early wake ups like you said which means getting one up asap imo.

I don't think Substitute + Focus Sash work together. If using Focus Sash, I think you should run Roost instead, coz if you take a surprise hit and get taken down to the Sash then you can at least get health back after putting something to Sleep. You could also run something like Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground / Fire in that slot on a Sash set. I think this could lead to the set having lots of slashes and being a bit ugly so I'm happy to see what the other QC guys think. Perhaps we could split them into a Sub set and a Focus sash set, since they have different uses and means you can avoid two different descriptions in Usage Tips. Here what I'm thinking:

name: Sleep 'n Weep
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 44 HP / 212 SpA / 252 Spe

So yeah this is the Sub set. The HP EVs help differentiate the sets, and give Vivillon the magic 16n+1 number for Sub + Leftovers (I checked the PS! stats and this spread is actually used there)

name: No one EVER suspects the Butterfly
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Roost / Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire / Endeavor
item: Focus Sash
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

And yeah this is the Sash set. Yeah there's lots of slashes in the fourth slot so we will need to whittle it down to 2-3, but they are all cool options imo...
Thanks for the check. Theorymon and Jibaku both wanted me to have two separate sets. Tagging them for thoughts.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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Yeah the Lefties set needs to be its own because the whole Sleep/Sub/Boosting move/anti-Grass move + solid single STAB move is Vivillon's primary quirk (oh Darkrai if only you're here...).

Also, it's worth noting to watch out for Hyper Voices, Icicle Spears, Rock Blasts, and just things that can bypass your Substitutes, especially if the Pokemon can take the Sleep Powder and won't die to boosted Hurricanes (Rhyperior I'm looking at you).
 
Not QC, but I thought of a few things:

The Sleep 'n Weep (first) set looks ok, but I'd at least mention Sharp Beak in Set Details, if not give it a slash. Lefties is cool to maintain Subs, but it's still very difficult regardless due to Viv's shitty bulk and defensive typing.

The fourth slot of the Sweet Dreams (second) set doesn't look very good; I'd just make it Bug Buzz / Endeavor. Again, Viv's terrible bulk and defensive typing doesn't do it any favors (making Roost mostly useless), and Sub is (mostly) counter-productive to Sash.

In OO, Bug Buzz and Endeavor should be removed since they're both on the second set. Add Roost, HP Ground, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Stun Spore here.

In CC, Thundurus doesn't really need its own section IMO, you can mention under "Fast Taunters" or "Electric-Types."
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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simply replying to the above, will do a proper check later..

Completely disagree with the mentioning of Sharp Beak. Leftovers is the only item that should ever be considered on this set, it's usage on the PGL alone is a good enough reason (77.7%), but if you want a proper explanation then; you absolutely need the Lefties for recovery so you can heal off the health used to get a Sub / make more subs as the opponent wakes up and breaks it. Without the Lefties you can only make 4 subs before dying, which severely limits your chances to Quiver Dance. With the Lefties, in combination with the free turns that you get while something sleeps, you get to set up way more Subs and thus get more Quiver Dances in. Vivillon shouldn't be taking hits in the first place, so your comment about it's bulk is redundant.

I will admit that the fourth slot is messy on the second set. I would limit it to two choices, mine are Endeavor and Hidden Power Ground. I'm not a fan of Bug Buzz as I don't really see what it lets you hit that's so beneficial, whereas Hidden Power Ground gives you the great Flying-Ground coverage. Endeavor is probably the best for actually making use of the Sash and really hurting things that you can't touch, meaning you can follow up with a KO from Hurricane against most things, or just severely weaken something before Viv goes down so a teammate can wreck them..

As for OO, Specs and Scarf shouldn't be mentioned. I agree that you shouldn't have anything listed here that is slashed / mentioned in an actual set. Viv's list of actually usable OO's is really quite short, I'd really only have Hidden Power Fire / Rock, Roost, Bug Buzz and (maybe) Stun Spore. If you wanna stretch it out there's also Dream Eater and Powder (lol). Life Orb could maybe also go there but no other items are really usable..

And yes, Thundurus does in fact need its own mention in C&C. It's a massive threat in the Battle Spot Singles metagame in general and Vivillon sucks against it, so it gets its own thing.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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I don't think the Focus Sash set needs Roost. Vivillon doesn't really have an opportunity to use that lol. I would also probably remove substitute as it basically nullifies the whole point of holding a focus sash.

Also mention Stealth Rocks in Checks and Counters. Taking 50% from rocks makes this pokemon really hard to use under these circumstances.

Otherwise I don't really have much more to add. 1/3
 

chuckaboomboom

I believe I can HM02
I don't think the Focus Sash set needs Roost. Vivillon doesn't really have an opportunity to use that lol. I would also probably remove substitute as it basically nullifies the whole point of holding a focus sash.

Also mention Stealth Rocks in Checks and Counters. Taking 50% from rocks makes this pokemon really hard to use under these circumstances.

Otherwise I don't really have much more to add. 1/3
Thanks for the check. Implemented

Btw i left substitute in on the sash set. While it's not a great option to use with sash, none of Vivillon's fourth moves are great. Sub is just the best of the worst.

Sick QC stamp DWhale ^_^
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I think bug buzz and endeavor work as great 4th moves. There's no quota on slashed moves, on the contrary too much will make the analysis more difficult to use.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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[OVERVIEW]

-Vivillon has its niche in battle spot singles as a Sleep Powder user that can set up via Quiver Dance quiver dance isn't its niche, it needs more emphasis on it's access to a reliable sleeping move which sets it apart from other QDers such as Volcarona and Venomoth. (ie: Viv's niche is Compound Eyes, giving a 97% accurate Sleep Powder backed by >average speed which allows it to set up with Quiver Dance more easily).
-Its offensive stats aren't great, but the combination of a good boosting move and a good STAB Hurricane gives Vivillon offensive pressure.
-Vivillon is easily walled by steel, rock, and electric type Pokemon such as? (aegi, ttar, zapdos etc.) due to the fact that Vivillon usually only runs Hurricane for offense.
-It is extremely frail and can not be switched in on most attacks really shouldn't be switching at all imo, probably would be a good lead?
-Vivillon has an useful ability in Compound Eyes, which makes Sleep Powder and Hurricane very accurate more reliable than other Pokemon (which is why you wanna use it).
-If using Leftovers on Vivillon, it is imperative that it comes in on a slower Pokemon. Using Leftovers Vivillon can put the opponent in an endless sleep cycle as it alternates between putting the opponent to sleep and setting up this can be left out and explained in the usage tips of the lefties set
-If using Focus Sash, Vivillon becomes safer to use since it can be guaranteed to survive a hit and put something to sleep. However, with no recovery and with a limited number of Substitutes that can be made, Vivillon has a short life span. same with this. if you want to leave these in to give the overview length, I would instead explain how setting up Viv can be tricky since it needs to set up against slower Pokemon (such as: ___ ), and cannot take on faster Pokemon (such as: ___ ) without a Focus Sash due to it being KOed before it can put them to sleep. Something brief like that rather than elaborated Usage Tips stuff...
-Though Stealth Rock is an uncommon move to see in Battle Spot Singles, a rogue Stealth Rock will significantly hinder Vivillon's effectiveness due to its Bug/Flying-typing making it take 50% damage when it switches in. Additionally, opponents have a tendency to set up Stealth Rocks when they see Vivillon in team preview.
-Vivillon is in an awkward speed tier, but its speed becomes respectable after a boost. Vivillon is outsped by positive nature base 100s. However, Vivillon outspeeds neutral nature base 100s. list key Pokemon that it does outspeed and can therefore set up on, and ones it doesn't. People want to know what it can achieve in the Overview before investing in reading the rest...

[SET]
name: Sleep 'n Weep
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 44 HP / 212 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========


-Sleep Powder allows Vivillon to neuter a threat temporarily and put it to sleep. Vivillon can then set up or attack. just explain what the moves do, not how to use them (that's for usage tips) Vivillon's ability boosts the accuracy of Sleep Powder from 75% to 97%. very sure it becomes 97.5 and then gets rounded down...
-Quiver Dance boosts Vivillon's Special Attack, Special Defence, and Speed to respectable levels. any noteworthy Pokemon that you outspeed after 1 or 2 boosts? what about damage output? are you now able to 1-2HKO anything after a boost or two? (ie: why should you be using QD specifically)
-Hurricane is a strong STAB move with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent. Vivillon's ability boosts the move's accuracy from 70% to 91%. what Pokemon does it hurt? surely there are some mons that it destroys
-Substitute protects Vivillon from early wake ups (any wake ups at all really) and allows Viv to survive the hit and put the foe to sleep again. It makes Vivillon have a safer time setting up and grants it some longevity.

Set Details
========


-44 HP Evs gives Vivillon a Leftovers number 161 HP which that provides maximum recovery from Leftovers. Vivillon runs max Special Attack and Speed EVs to boost its underwhelming offensive stat and speed make it as fast as possible / outspeed certain Pokemon (list examples). The rest goes in SpA to boost its offense as much as possible. There is no point investing in bulk on Vivillon since it is extremely frail.
-Compound eyes boosts the accuracy of Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Hurricane and give Vivillon consistency.
-Leftovers gives Vivillon passive recovery and allows it to create more Substitutes / heals damage while the opponent sleeps.

Usage Tips
========

-When using Leftovers, Vivillon needs to come in on a slower Pokemon such as ___ , It can put a slower these Pokemon to sleep, set up a Substitute, then boost with Quiver Dance. Vivillon can continue to put the opponent to sleep and set up Substitute as they wake up.
-After a few Quiver Dances boosts, Vivillon will outspeed most Pokemon and put them to sleep before they can make a move. The Leftovers set is unique in that Vivillon can put the opponent into an endless sleep cycle and be safe from early wake-ups due to Subsitute. With Leftovers recovery, Vivillon can set up many Substitutes and sweep through teams if played carefully. well Viv needs four turns to replenish the health lost from a Substitute, and you basically never get sleeps that last that long. For example, if you get a bunch of 1-2 turn sleeps in a row then you're losing health as they break your sub > you put them to sleep again > set up another sub... So go easy on the 'endless' claims.

Team Options
========

-Landorus-T, Heatran, and Garchomp can switch in on Steel, Rock, and Electric types that completely counter Vivillon and damage them severely with a Ground type attack.
-Heatran, Ferrothorn, and other steel types are also nice since Vivillon can switch into and check some fighting types like Conkeldurr.
-Suicune and other Pokemon weak to grass types appreciate Vivillon's ability to check grass types such as ___ .
-After Vivillon finishes disrupting the other team, have strong teammates that can clean up. E.g. Mega-Kangaskhan, Blaziken.
- Viv is super weak to Talonflame (Brave Bird) and Mamoswine (Ice Shard + Icicle Spear) so dedicated checks to them are a must. Also stuff for Sylveon, Thundurus, Mega Mence and Greninja. You currently have no teammates like this listed, just stuff for steel/rock/electrics and a handful of guys that appreciate Viv's presence. You need to focus more on what helps Viv work...

[SET]
name: Sweet Dreams really not a fan of this name, it's too similar to the lefties one and may cause confusion. maybe just a simple 'Focus Sash' or pun based on that would be better.
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Quiver Dance
move 3: Hurricane
move 4: Bug Buzz / Endeavor / Hidden Power Ground
item: Focus Sash
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========


-Sleep Powder allows Vivillon to neuter a threat temporarily and put it to sleep. Vivillon can then set up or attack. Vivillon's ability boosts the accuracy of Sleep Powder from 75% to 98%.
-Quiver Dance boosts Vivillon's Special Attack, Special Defence, and Speed to respectable levels.
-Hurricane is a strong STAB move with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent. Vivillon's ability boosts the move's accuracy from 70% to 91%.
you can pretty much CP from the lefties set except for the Sub explanation, lol.
- In the fourth slot, several moves can be used. Bug Buzz is an additional STAB option. Endeavor can be used to bring down an opponent's health take advantage of Viv being brought down to its Sash against Pokemon that it can't really hurt with Hurricane (such as Ttar, Zapdos, Heatran etc.) before going down. Hidden Power Ground gives fantastic coverage

Set Details
========


-Vivillon runs max Special Attack and Speed EVs to boost its underwhelming offensive stat and speed. There is no point investing in bulk on Vivillon since it is frail and will usually rely on Focus Sash to live an attack. 4 in SpD to mess up Download P2
-Compound eyes boosts the accuracy of Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Hurricane and give Vivillon consistency.

Usage Tips
========

-If Vivillon is holding a Focus Sash, it is straightforward and simple to use.
-Come in on an opposing Pokemon, preferably one that is slower than Vivillon such as..?
-Use Sleep Powder, putting the opponent to sleep. If possible, set up a Substitute after using Sleep Powder. this isn't the Sub set rofl
-If Vivillon is behind a Substitute, Vivillon can set up Quiver Dances freely. If not, Vivillon has to be wary and can only safely set up one Quiver Dance, since the opponent will have taken the guaranteed one turn of sleep. After some set up, use Hurricane to KO or get heavy damage on the opponent.
-Vivillon is frail and the Focus Sash variant depends on the item do be effective. As a result, Vivillon usually can't be hard-switched in. However, in some situations, it may be helpful to bring Vivillon in on a Fighting type or Grass type Pokemon when they are using their respective STAB attacks. Vivillon is 4x resistant to those attacks, and can retaliate with a super-effective Hurricane. what about Ground-type moves that Viv is completely immune to? Any common users of Grass-, Fighting-, or Ground-type attacks that Viv can prey on?
-Focus Sash Vivillon can perform as a decent lead. It allows Vivillon to put a threat to sleep early game and to put some dents into the opponent's team.

Team Options
========

-Landorus-T, Heatran, and Garchomp can switch in on Steel, Rock, and Electric types that completely counter Vivillon and damage them severely with a Ground type attack.
-Heatran, Ferrothorn, and other steel types are also nice since Vivillon can switch into and check some fighting types like Conkeldurr.
-Suicune and other Pokemon weak to grass types appreciate Vivillon's ability to check grass types
. since this is CPed from the lefties set you can CP my comments
-After Vivillon finishes disrupting the other team, have strong teammates that can clean up. E.g. Mega-Kangaskhan, Blaziken
-Sash Vivillon can be used more recklessly. Use Pokemon that benefit from disruption rather than pokemon that complement Vivillon defensively. Strong set-up sweepers or bulky attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan make for great partners. but you definitely need checks to strongmons like I mentioned in the previous TO section otherwise you'll give way too much momentum to the opponent by just letting Viv die.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============


-Bug Buzz is a secondary STAB move that can be used it bypasses Subs which is OK I guess. However, Flying and Bug doesn't grant great coverage.
-Endeavor is another option that requires the use of a Focus Sash. It can be used to bring down an opponent's HP to a low amount or 1HP after Vivillon is brought down to low health. it's on the Sash set so it doesn't stay here
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice / Rock are alternate types which can be used.
- Roost provides reliable recovery
- Double Team can be used over Sub to try and avoid attacks altogether
- Infestation can trap something while it sleeps
- Giga Drain / Dream Eater can be used for health
- Powder can be used to surprise pokemon that rely on fire-type moves and do 25% damage to them for free, creates mindgames with them
- I wanna mention Harden as an option so you are also physically bulky but lol.


Checks and Counters
===================


**Jolly Nature Mega Kangaskhan**: Jolly Mega Kangaskhan outspeeds Vivillon and gets the OHKO with either Return or Double Edge.

**Faster and Powerful attackers**: Fast and powerful Pokemon can outspeed and KO Vivillon if it is holding Leftovers, or Vivillon to 1HP if it is holding Focus Sash, leaving it easily revenge killed and vulnerable to an early wake-up. such as..???

**Thundurus-I** Thundurus-I shuts down Vivillon with Prankster Taunt, preventing it from using its status moves. Thundurus-I also resists Vivillon's STABs. and can ohko with T-bolt!!!

**Ferrothorn** Hurricane is a 3HKO on a Ferrothorn with no Special Defense Investment, while Ferrothorn can bring Vivillon down to its sash with Gyro Ball. Also, Vivillon can't put Ferrothorn to sleep due to Ferrothorn's grass typing.

**Fast Taunters** Fast Taunters that outspeed Vivillon such as Gengar prevent Vivillon from using status moves, thus shutting Vivillon down.

**Steel, Rock and Electric types** These Pokemon resist Vivillon's Flying type attack and can easily soak up damage even after a few boosts. Electric types are further problems, since they tend to be fast and can break Vivillon's Focus Sash before being put to sleep with an attack, or KO Vivillon if it is holding Leftovers. who are these Pokemon??

**Attacks that bypass Substitute** Hyper Voice, Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and so on can bypass Vivillon's Substitutes and hit it hard. list common users!

**Stealth Rocks** Stealth rock takes away 50% of Vivillon's health upon switch in. This makes Vivillon a lot harder to use. The Leftovers set can make less Substitutes while the Sash set can no longer live attacks that would normally OHKO it.

where is Talonflame and Salamence?? On paper, Viv should be a wrecking ball with reliable sleep and one of the best boosting moves in the game and one of the best one-move coverage options (CE+Hurricane), but you never see it, why is this? Because there are heaps of common mons that shit all over it. This section (C&Cs) will probably end up being a massive section due to how many things give Viv trouble, but you need to list them all...
Overall this was OK, but way too brief. Too many instances of not listing specific examples of Pokemon, even though this is a Skeleton we still need to see all this information to make sure it will be good when you write it, otherwise we'd have to make a heap of additions after you've written it which is harder for you to implement then. Also, for nichemons / gimmicks like Vivillon you need to exaplin all the reasons it isn't commonly seen in the format.

I'll give the second check once you've implemented all of this coz I wanna see if you get all the specific Pokemon suggestions right. I did a lot of "such as ___ " in the check coz I can't do it all for you, lol.
 

chuckaboomboom

I believe I can HM02
Overall this was OK, but way too brief. Too many instances of not listing specific examples of Pokemon, even though this is a Skeleton we still need to see all this information to make sure it will be good when you write it, otherwise we'd have to make a heap of additions after you've written it which is harder for you to implement then. Also, for nichemons / gimmicks like Vivillon you need to exaplin all the reasons it isn't commonly seen in the format.

I'll give the second check once you've implemented all of this coz I wanna see if you get all the specific Pokemon suggestions right. I did a lot of "such as ___ " in the check coz I can't do it all for you, lol.
Thanks so much for the reply! I'll definitely work at revamping my analysis.

However, there are several things I don't agree with. I think that you've gone off on a tangent with Vivillon. Vivillon isn't super viable in the first place. It pretty much has one job and has very few ways to do that job. With all due respect, I don't really agree with anything new in the other options section. Hidden powers are way too specific and are beyond niche, but if you really want, i'll keep it. Double team is ridiculous, and should never be used on any pokemon because of it's poor effects. Giga drain does pitiful damage, and dream eater... Let's just say i would never use dream eater on anything, not even darkrai. Powder is fun, but is a novelty at best (powder actually wrecked me in XY in-game lmao). And harden, ummmmm, i might as well put celebrate into other options if harden is worthy of a mention.

All of your other comments are great, and i'll get around to implementing them soon.
 

cant say

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Thanks so much for the reply! I'll definitely work at revamping my analysis.

However, there are several things I don't agree with. I think that you've gone off on a tangent with Vivillon. Vivillon isn't super viable in the first place. It pretty much has one job and has very few ways to do that job. With all due respect, I don't really agree with anything new in the other options section. Hidden powers are way too specific and are beyond niche, but if you really want, i'll keep it. Double team is ridiculous, and should never be used on any pokemon because of it's poor effects. Giga drain does pitiful damage, and dream eater... Let's just say i would never use dream eater on anything, not even darkrai. Powder is fun, but is a novelty at best (powder actually wrecked me in XY in-game lmao). And harden, ummmmm, i might as well put celebrate into other options if harden is worthy of a mention.

All of your other comments are great, and i'll get around to implementing them soon.
Oh lol if your only gripe is with my list of OOs then I don't mind at all. I only put Giga Drain and Dream Eater in because both have showed up at times in the statistics. I don't know what you mean by the Hidden Powers being beyond niche though, Fire is a clean 2HKO on Ferrothorn unboosted, OHKOs Scizor at +1, and does a fair chunk to Skarm. Hidden Power Ice OHKOs Chomp, Lando-T and M-Mence at +1. Rock surprises Talonflame an the Sash set by OHKOing after it Brave Birds you. I dunno, they are pretty niche but they have uses (which is the point of OOs, to list other options but explain why you shouldn't use them..). Oh yeah, I don't think Double Team is too useless, there are plenty of haxy sets like this going around on all kinds of mons, Viv is a great user since you can sleep stuff and works pretty well with Quiver Dance. Powder gives you a positive matchup against Blaziken since you can scare it from using Flare Blitz and resort it to something else while you Hurricane it (Rock Slide is only 12% usage). Yeah Harden was a joke, sorry that didn't come across so obviously..

I was mostly just trying to make the OOs a respectable length. If the quality of suggestions truly is crap then sure leave them out. Like I was saying, the point is to list other options and explain why they aren't used..
 
OO still needs to be updated because it's not supposed to list things that are already on one of the recommended sets. I'd personally only list the following though:
  • Various Hidden Power types (depending on coverage needed)
  • Roost (helps with setting up QD, but Viv is generally too frail)
  • Stun Spore (cripples any fast offensive non-Electric types)
  • Tailwind (great for more speed and team support)
  • Choice Scarf (a set using the moves Hurricane / Sleep Powder / U-turn / Hidden Power with this item functions as both a fast sleep lead and a revenge killer. It makes great use of STAB Hurricane due to its great neutral coverage, and anything it doesn't kill can be put to sleep or U-turned out of. The real drawback is its lack of power without an offensive stat boost.)
  • Powder (lol)
 
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