VGC 2011 Team: "Tricks of the Trade"

[M. Rock]

TRICKS OF THE TRADE​

Introduction​

I'll be honest; if someone told me a few months ago that I was going to compete in the 2011 VGC, I would laugh pretty hard. But the hype of the 5th gen pulled me back once again, and here I am. I have done some amount of research onto how the metagame has shaped itself so far before jumping right in. Right before I started, I had a feeling that any Unova Pokemon with the Prankster ability was going to be in very high usage.
It turns out I was right; it's safe to say the whole metagame can be defined by these "Pranksters", mainly the two counterpart genies. I needed a good team to start with, as a sort of "training wheels", into 5th Gen VGC, learn all the new threats, and see what works and what doesn't. I decided to start with a Trick Room strategy.
This the fourth draft of my original design, and I must say, I have seen a good degree of success with it. I mainly play unrated on the Skarmbliss VGC server on PO where there is the most VGC traffic, it seems. The team is by no means wholly original, but it works with the apparent lack of other TR teams out there, which in turn means a lesser demand for TR counter-teams. This team has had quite a good win streak, so don't write it off right away. I encourage team raters to read it and critique - to critique my first foray into the exciting new VGC 2011 metagame.​

The Team​

Amoongus (F) @ Coba Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 244 HP/ 252 Def/ 12 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Protect​

With the lack of a Follow Me user this year, this funky shroom is the next best thing. The EVs have been copied over from Follow Me sets that I have worked for me in previous teams. His defenses are pretty good (114/70/80), and the given EVs, nature, and item allow him to take STAB Acrobatics from Flying Jewel Tornadus with still about a third of his HP left. I mean, I'm not big with calcs, but this is one example of how well his "survivability" is, so to speak. The EV spread may be old, but it still proves very effective; so much so that he doesn't even need a focus sash to do his job well!
The set up is simple. Start with Rage Powder and keep the partner safe to set up Trick Room. If he's still alive the next turn (he is most of the time, actually), he can spread sleep and recover while still doing okay damage (Giga Drain is particularly effective against Terakion). All things considering, he does his job pretty well. However, Fake Out stops him dead in his tracks. He also has problems with Shed Skin Scrafty. After a couple of weeks of testing, I found the only one attack (not counting crits) that he cannot survive no matter what: a STAB Overheat from Chandelure (any set). I'm not worried, though; that was only one time, and most carry the very managable Heat Wave.​

Reuniclus (M) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpA/ 8 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Protect​

The standard TR sweeper, but it's a standard for a reason: because it works. No Overcoat because Hail and Sandstorm are almost non-existent. The mental herb prevents him from being Encored into TR, and he still gets the kills he needs without a Life Orb.
When I come up against opposing TR teams (which none that I've met so far carry an Amoongus), I go along with Rage Powder + TR anway, expecting them to do the same, thus "returning the dimensions to normal" by the end of the first turn. Then on the next turn, Amoongus Spores their TR user, taking advantage of the fact that that 'mon will move last, while my Reuniclus safely sets up TR. And thus the sweep begins, and the opponent is prevented from setting up.
Now, before you say "Imprison Chandelure says hi", that set has already payed me a few (painful) visits. It's hard to see coming, and a mispredict means I essentially lose right before the match even starts. However, now that he has Protect instead of Focus Blast, this is much less of a problem in terms of prediction.mImprison Chandelure almost always shares the lead with a Fake Out user, it seems. I would very much appreciate it if someone could inform me of other common partners that that kind of lead Chandelure is paired with to help aid my prediction.​

​

Druddigon (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
- Rock Slide​

One of my physical sweepers that was on my team during a testing period. However, I have done so well with him, he is now an actual part of the team. The set itself is pretty self-explanatory: pure power. Rock Slide is for hitting both opponents, and I believe Sheer Force brings it up from 75 BP to 100. Dragon Claw has great coverage and Protect is basically a necessity. Sucker Punch is one of my favorite all-time moves in doubles, and for good reason: the doubles metagame is hyper-offensive, and even if the opponent knows you have it, they still have to attack at some point.
Because of Sucker Punch and immunity to Fire, Druddigon is a great answer to the ever-so-common Chandelure (so long as he avoids burns). Sucker Punch is also very useful against the likes of Golurk. It's too bad that the LO cuts his lifespan short, but he can't get important KOs without it. Also, when TR is up, Hyrdreigon doesn't have a prayer :). There's not much else to say; he's very effective, and I haven't really found a definite counter for him yet (well, other than Hydreigon when TR is not in play).​

​

Conkledurr (M) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 6 SpD
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Mach Punch
- Payback
- Protect
- Hammer Arm​

Last but not least is a Pokemon that can perform well both inside and outside of TR. Protect on the first turn he's out (unless there is something weakened that he can take out right away without fear of being hit hard), and let FO activate. He literally plows through most opponents, and under TR, Hammer Arm moves first with incredible power, and the speed drop only makes him more effective under TR. Mach Punch is the all-around standard fare. Payback is usually deployed under TR; though lacking the power boost of him moving after the opponent, it is still a decently powerful attack that takes care of Jellicent and opposing Reuniclus, which in turn greatly aids my team. Also, he is my answer for Hydreigon. With Mach Punch, he can hit the dark hydra for usually 2HKOs; partner Druddigon Protects on the first MP so that it is safe for him to move on the next turn when a second Mach Punch will strike first and get rid of Hydreigon.
The results with him are fantastic. According to the amount of research I've done, I do believe that he is the only pokemon with an attack stat over 120 that can abuse TR and use a powerful STAB priority move that hits 5 types for super-effective damage. As a last note, Drain Punch used to be in the final slot, but Hammer Arm is better for flat-out KOs that I really need; he can take the burn damage. Also, he functions at utmost efficiency with 2 STABs - after all, priority is very important in doubles, no?​

Conclusion​

In closing, I'd like to say that my first steps into this year's VGC metagame have been good ones. I will continue to use this team until a time comes where the ever-changing metagame renders it virtually unviable in terms of usefulness. Until then, please feel free to (kindly) rate and comment. I have done my best to list the Pokemon that have threatened this team the most over the past week of extensive testing. The two biggest threats that jump out at me are Imprison Chandelure and a Teeter Dance lead (uncommon, but I lose to it every time I see it). I've become better with using this team; as long as I find a way to set-up TR at the start, the odds are in my favor, and I've gotten much better with that. Most of my losses are actually just a result of the fact that I don't know enough about the current metagame yet, which in turn affects prediction. I'm not concerned, though; with more time and the help of the community, I'll just develop a natural knack for things. Thanks for reading; sorry it's so long .​

 

[M. Rock]

bump

 

[JRank]

TRICKS OF THE TRADE​

Introduction​

I'll be honest; if someone told me a few months ago that I was going to compete in the 2011 VGC, I would laugh pretty hard. But the hype of the 5th gen pulled me back once again, and here I am. I have done some amount of research onto how the metagame has shaped itself so far before jumping right in. Right before I started, I had a feeling that any Unova Pokemon with the Prankster ability was going to be in very high usage.
It turns out I was right; it's safe to say the whole metagame can be defined by these "Pranksters", mainly the two counterpart genies. I read that Sandstorm and Trick Room would be the dominant weathers this year, and decided that I would pick one of the two to start with, as a sort of "training wheels", into 5th Gen VGC, learn all the new threats, and see what works and what doesn't. I decided to start with a Trick Room strategy.
This the second draft of my original design, and I must say, I have seen a good degree of success with it. I mainly play unrated on the Skarmbliss VGC server on PO where there is the most VGC traffic, it seems. The team is by no means wholly original, but it works with the apparent lack of other TR teams out there, which in turn means a lesser demand for TR counter-teams. This team has had quite a good win streak, so don't write it off right away. I encourage team raters to read it and critique - to critique my first foray into the exciting new VGC 2011 metagame.​

The Team​

Amoongus (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 244 HP/ 252 Def/ 12 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Grass Knot
- Spore
- Gastro Acid​

With the lack of a Follow Me user this year, this funky shroom is the next best thing. The EVs have been copied over from Follow Me sets that I have worked for me in previous teams. His base defenses are not out-of-this-world, but the given EVs and nature allow him to take STAB Shadow Ball from LO Jellicent without having to be knocked down to his Focus Sash. I mean, I'm not big with calcs, but this is one example of how well his "survivability" is, so to speak. Since the EV spread is from Follow Me users of mine from past generations, I plan at some point on changing it to better accomodate the offensive threats of this generation.
The set up is simple. Start with Rage Powder and keep the partner safe to set up Trick Room. If he's still alive the next turn (he is most of the time, actually), he can spread sleep, disable the opponent's ability, and hit the heavier threats for some good (but not amazing) damage. All things considering, he does his job pretty well. However, Fake Out stops him dead in his tracks. He also has problems with Shed Skin Scrafty.​

Giga Drain>Grass Knot for more survivability, and Protect is much more useful than Gastro Acid, again for Amoonguss to live longer.

Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpA/ 8 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast​

The standard TR sweeper, but it's a standard for a reason: because it works. Unresisted coverage, no LO recoil thanks to Magic Guard, and having Psyshock means a reliably powerful mixed sweeper without the need for investing EVs in Atk.
When I come up against opposing TR teams (which none that I've met so far carry an Amoongus), I go along with Rage Powder + TR anway, expecting them to do the same, thus "returning the dimensions to normal" by the end of the first turn. Then on the next turn, Amoongus Spores their TR user, taking advantage of the fact that that 'mon will move last, while my Reuniclus safely sets up TR. And thus the sweep begins, and the opponent is prevented from setting up.
This set is also prepared for a dual-Prankster lead that carries Whimsicott. Amoongus will "Powder Up", so to speak, and Reuniclus sets up TR. Then I immediately switch to Gigalith, so Whimsicott has nothing to Encore except Rock Slide, and I can start a sweep. I mention Whimsicott because he is the only Prankster that typically carries Encore. Before I figured this trick out, that sort of lead used to cause this team a lot of problems.
Now, before you say "Imprison Chandelure says hi", that set has already payed me a few (painful) visits. It's hard to see coming, and a mispredict means I essentially lose right before the match even starts. All can really do is assume that every lead Chandelure has Imprison, and hit it with a powerful Psyshock while it spends a turn not attacking. As far as prediction goes, Imprison Chandelure almost always shares the lead with a Fake Out user, it seems. I would very much appreciate it if someone could inform me of other common partners that that kind of lead Chandelure is paired with to help aid my prediction.​

Looks fine.

​

Gigalith (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/ 244 Atk/ 12 SpD
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Rock Blast
- Protect
- Earthquake​

My physical sweeper, and a good one at that. My only regret is that he does not have Stone Edge when a single opponent needs to be hit for hard(er) damage, but every move on this set has its purpose. Rock Slide is the all-around good move for power and flinch hax, and Rock Blast breaks the ever-too-common focus sashes, and the substitutes set up by the Genies. I was on the fence about using Rock Blast, but with his huge power and a super-effective hits boosted by the Expert Belt, Gigalith has just enough power to make this work. Earthquake is for coverage, and since my team usually plays out in the order displayed in this thread, he makes a good partner with Thundurus. Protect is a filler move, but it works very well when stalling out a burned, low-HP Conkledurr that carries Mach Punch (this is a specific example that happened at the end of one match, but I feel it deserves some kind of mention).
There's really not much else to say; this set just has a good degree of success (as long as TR is in play). When paired with Reuniclus, his Rock Slide helps keep the treacherous Chandelure at bay, and he helps Thundurus take on opposing Genies. His biggest worry, however, is the aforementioned Guts-boosted Mach Punch Conkledurr. Conk either has to be dealt with before Giga enters the field, or Thundurus's priority Embargo can get rid of his Flame Orb.​

No problems here

​

Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 12 HP/ 248 SpA/ 248 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Embargo
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]​

Having not too much experience with using TR, I still figured that at least one fast pokemon should be on the team if TR cannot be set up or if the effects end before the match does. The only problem is that TR still makes fast Pokemon move last. However, the fifth gen has graced us with a powerful new asset: Prankster. Becuase of his superior speed, his priority status moves often go before any of my other 'mons while TR is up, which can greatly aid his partner's sweep. I put the two most practical status moves on him that I could think of. Substitute is for scouting and blocking status, and Embargo is for trying to mess-up the opponent's strategy a little. Granted, I haven't needed to use Embargo a whole lot, but it has saved me from a few Life Orbs that would otherwise have cost me a few matches. The other two moves are just for perfect coverage, and HP[Ice] almost always OHKOs any Landorus variant that I have come across so far. The only real difference between the first draft of the team and this draft is that HP[Ice] used to be Sky Drop (banned), and his EVs and nature were different to accomodate a mixed set. He also used to have full HP EVs for his subs, but I changed to this spread so that he had the power he needed to get important KOs and the speed needed to outrun opposing genies.
This guy makes a good partner for Gigalith because it allows Giga to use EQ, and this guy is just an overall good team player. If TR cannot be set up at the start, he comes in after Amoongus dies, and tries to net KOs so that the other survivors might have a chance. However, it doesn't always end in a win...​

Change Embargo to Grass Knot, and Leftovers to Charti Berry to combat Rock types. Also, I would consider changing Hidden Power Ice to Flying for Roobushins and Scraftys.

Conclusion​

In closing, I'd like to say that my first steps into this year's VGC metagame have been good ones. I will continue to use this team until a time comes where the ever-changing metagame renders it virtually unviable in terms of usefulness. Until then, please feel free to (kindly) rate and comment. I have done my best to list the Pokemon that have threatened this team the most over the past week of extensive testing. I've become better with using this team; as long as I find a way to set-up TR at the start, the odds are in my favor, and I've gotten much better with that. Most of my losses are actually just a result of the fact that I don't know enough about the current metagame yet, which in turn affects prediction. I'm not concerned, though; with more time and the help of the community, I'll just develop a natural knack for things. Thanks for reading; sorry it's so long .​

Changes in bold.

 

[Wildfire]

One little thing for the intro, trick room is not a weather and sandstorm isn't very dominant or used. (Not sure where you read that.)

Anyways, I put all changes in bold here.

Amoongus (F) @ Coba Berry/Lum Berry/Occa Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 244 HP/ 252 Def/ 12 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Protect

Starting with Amoongus, it is pretty bulky. It's most likely going to survive any one attack except for flare blitz from darmitan, acrobatics from Tornadus w/ flight jewel, and some other select few. Darmanitan is not used much. I've used amoongus a lot before and with the evs and nature its going to survive heat wave from shandera. There are a lot of Tornadus. (22% of teams have it occurding to usage stats.) Most players have it with accrobatics. Coba will ensure it survives. If you are leary about fire attacks go occa, but the are better items. Lum berry is for other sporing ammongus. It really depends on what you fear most. Also, jellicent doesn't have a great SpA at all. (85) Almost none carry around life orb. Amoongus doesn't have anything to fear from it, in fact, amoongus is a great counter baring ice beam. Giga drain was given a boost to 75 damage and there are not many heavy pokes in gen.5 so grass knot is not really useful. Gastro acid doesn't really come in handy. Protect is for avoiding fake out. Let Reuniclus set up trick room.

Reuniclus (M) @ Mental Herb/Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpA/ 8 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psyhic
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

While life orb is useful, mental herb is better. It blocks taunt so trick room is guaranted to be set up. (Unless there is impison shandera) Toxic orb is so that reuniculs can not be spored. Psychic is better because it give more damage. The new generation usually has better defense than sp.defense. You will get more damage against the other team with psychic. Protect is for fake out.

Gigalith (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/ 244 Atk/ 12 SpD
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Rock Blast
- Protect
- Earthquake

Actually gigalith does have stone edge, but rock blast is better. It breaks through focus sashes and subs. Can't say anything else. Female because there are female attract whimsicott. Same for amoongus.

Thundurus (M) @ Charti berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 12 HP/ 248 SpA/ 248 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Thunderwave
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]​

Thundurus is pretty frail. Leftovers won't help much because it only takes one rock slide to knock it out which is why charti berry is better. Emargo might be helpful sometimes, but thunderwave works well too. Emargo doesn't stop an attack, but thunderwave can and it slows down the opponent with 1/4 of their speed.​

 

[M. Rock]

@Wildfire: I know that Giga has Stone Edge, what I meant was that I regret(ed) not having it on my particular set. And you're right; I've barely seen a SS team at all. I previously read in an issue of The Smog that SS would probably be popular this year because of Sand Power/Rush or whatever it's called (the ability that boosts speed in a sandstorm).

Thanks, both of you. I will experiment with the above changes as soon as I am able, and post the results back here. Thundurus's set has been the hardest one to figure out on this team. With such an expansive movepool, he has great special attacks and a handful of things to abuse Prankster; the only real problem is that he has just four move slots...

As a side note, I'm on the fence about Protect VS Focus Blast on Reuniclus. Without FB, he's going to have a harder time dealing with Hydreigon, if it isn't already asleep or being flinched to death.

 

[Fantom0]

Just a few obvious things from me...

Reuniclus is going to need Protect + Psychic. Psychic gets higher base power and Protect is since there is going to be many Fake Outers in the metagame.
Personally, I prefer Mental Herb on Amoonguss due to the fact that he is going to be Taunted sometime soon, and you also want to be able to attract Taunts with Rage Powder, for which you will need Mental Herb. I know most people have given up on Taunt since they think that it will carry Mental Herb anyway, but better safe than sorry, I always say.
Rock Blast is pretty pointless on a pokemon with Rock Slide. It might get a good amount of damage, but it already has a STAB rock move. I recommend replacing it with Explosion, which will create a checkmate situation, so to speak, in numerous cases. I think Expert Belt won't help all that much if your opponent doesn't have any pokemon with weaknesses to EdgeQuake. I prefer Custap Berry/Liechi Berry myself, as it enhances the dependability/power of Explosion when Sturdy activates.
Finally, I feel Thundurus is out of place on a TR team. If you should continue to run it, then I would say Protect over Thunder Wave/Substitute. This allows you to properly stall out your own Trick Room should it come down to it. I never found Thunder wave useful myself.

Hope I helped!

 

[muffinhead]

Just a few obvious things from me...

Reuniclus is going to need Protect + Psychic. Psychic gets higher base power and Protect is since there is going to be many Fake Outers in the metagame.
Personally, I prefer Mental Herb on Amoonguss due to the fact that he is going to be Taunted sometime soon, and you also want to be able to attract Taunts with Rage Powder, for which you will need Mental Herb. I know most people have given up on Taunt since they think that it will carry Mental Herb anyway, but better safe than sorry, I always say.
Rock Blast is pretty pointless on a pokemon with Rock Slide. It might get a good amount of damage, but it already has a STAB rock move. I recommend replacing it with Explosion, which will create a checkmate situation, so to speak, in numerous cases. I think Expert Belt won't help all that much if your opponent doesn't have any pokemon with weaknesses to EdgeQuake. I prefer Custap Berry/Liechi Berry myself, as it enhances the dependability/power of Explosion when Sturdy activates.
Finally, I feel Thundurus is out of place on a TR team. If you should continue to run it, then I would say Protect over Thunder Wave/Substitute. This allows you to properly stall out your own Trick Room should it come down to it. I never found Thunder wave useful myself.

Hope I helped!

Rock Blast helps take out focus sash and michievous heart substitute pokemon, which are quite common (you even list it later in your rate.
Pinch berries are unreleased as of right now.

EVs should max out at 252 unless there is a 30 IV, in which case 248 maxes out the stat.

Also consider another Trick Room pokemon over thundurus, like quiet Jellicent. It helps with synergy throughout most of this team. sorry for the brief rate :D

 

[JRank]

Just a few obvious things from me...

Reuniclus is going to need Protect + Psychic. Psychic gets higher base power and Protect is since there is going to be many Fake Outers in the metagame.
Personally, I prefer Mental Herb on Amoonguss due to the fact that he is going to be Taunted sometime soon, and you also want to be able to attract Taunts with Rage Powder, for which you will need Mental Herb. I know most people have given up on Taunt since they think that it will carry Mental Herb anyway, but better safe than sorry, I always say.
Rock Blast is pretty pointless on a pokemon with Rock Slide. It might get a good amount of damage, but it already has a STAB rock move. I recommend replacing it with Explosion, which will create a checkmate situation, so to speak, in numerous cases. I think Expert Belt won't help all that much if your opponent doesn't have any pokemon with weaknesses to EdgeQuake. I prefer Custap Berry/Liechi Berry myself, as it enhances the dependability/power of Explosion when Sturdy activates.
Finally, I feel Thundurus is out of place on a TR team. If you should continue to run it, then I would say Protect over Thunder Wave/Substitute. This allows you to properly stall out your own Trick Room should it come down to it. I never found Thunder wave useful myself.

Hope I helped!

Rock Blast is definitely viable, it breaks Focus Sashes and Substitutes (also Charti Berries)

Liechi/Custap Berry aren't legal, you can't get them in-game legitimately. Know your facts before you post.

I do agree with sending out Thundurus. It's out of place on a Trick Room team, and you should go with a Pokemon that you can use both inside and out. Conkledurr is a great candidate for this, here's a set:

Conkledurr @ Flame Orb
Guts
Brave
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Mach Punch
Payback
Protect
Drain Punch

With Mach Punch it can go inside of TR and out, Protect to stall TW or let Flame Orb activate, Payback hits Ghosts, and Drain Punch for a stronger STAB and healing. Normally I would have Rock Slide>Drain Punch but you already have Gigalith.​

 

[M. Rock]

Hmmm...well with a Jellicent or Conkledurr in the last slot, I don't need to worry about having to use only status moves until TR wears off, as is the case with Thundurus sometimes. I guess I'll experiment with Conk just to see what happens. With Jelli, I only have one Pokemon on a team of four that has any physical attacks at all...yet I feel compelled to give it a chance, too.
As for the previously mentioned changes, Coba Berry is hands-down the best item for Amoongus, who seems to be a magnet for flying-type moves. With mental herb, after Reuniclus sets up TR, he doesn't have to switch out immediately after for fear of opposing Whimsicott using Encore, which means one of my other 'mons doesn't have to take unnecessary damage. Surprisinly, without the LO, he still gets the important KOs he needs.
Idk, I'll try different things and see what happens

 

[M. Rock]

@Fantom0: I actually went on with Conkeldurr last night, and to be blunt, he hits like a truck. He just mows things down. Since I already have Rock Slide on another 'mon, he can use Drain Punch. This means he heals the amount of HP equivalent to the insane amount of damage he does, thus negating burn damage. The results so far are good. However, I'm still open to further suggestions/advice.

Also, should I update this thread with what my team looks like now, or is that not necessary?

 

[Juice!]

As a side note, I'm on the fence about Protect VS Focus Blast on Reuniclus. Without FB, he's going to have a harder time dealing with Hydreigon, if it isn't already asleep or being flinched to death.

Without Focus Blast you get walled by by every Dark and every Steel. Stuff like Scrafty, Excadrill, Hydregion, and Bisharp will walk all over your Reuniculus. Just something to keep in mind, when choosing between Focus Blast and Protect.

Also, definitely post your updated team in your main post, so we know exactly what we're working with now. =)

Good luck!

 

[M. Rock]

Edited.

So, to put things in perspective, my age has placed me in the Masters Division at this year's VGC. Assuming that I PRNG for perfect IVs on every Pokemon and that my 5th Gen experience reaches its peak come tourney time, how does this team's chances of success look (I define success as either placing high enough to move onto Nationals or coming close to that)?

 

[Wildfire]

The team looks good, but that does not neccesarily determine success. People can luck out on match ups or just get a lot of hax which makes or breaks someone's chance to win. Practice helps, but in the end its really luck. I think you will do good.

 

[M. Rock]

Thanks, Wildfire. Tbh, I don't really mind losing to hax...it's frustrating, yes, but it's a part of the game. For any person that ever told me "you won because of luck you (insert insult here)", I just tell them: "Dude, luck is a part of how it works around here. If you can't accept that, Pokemon is not your game".


EDIT: ^^Gee, that would really make a good sig^^

 

[Fantom0]

Personally, I love Hammer Arm on Conkeldurr. It allows you to beat more pokes in Trick Room and OHKOes just about every pokemon that takes neutral damage when factoring in Guts.

Also, you shouldn't be too concerned about Dark types. Just put it to sleep with Spore and rip the team apart around it until there's just the Dark 'mon left. Having Protect, I found, makes things such a lot easier to handle should your opponent use Fake Out, and also eases up prediction.

 

[Werecario]

Without Focus Blast you get walled by by every Dark and every Steel. Stuff like Scrafty, Excadrill, Hydregion, and Bisharp will walk all over your Reuniculus. Just something to keep in mind, when choosing between Focus Blast and Protect.

I think he will be fine without focus blast. With a Conkeldurr in the back to take out anyone Dark or Steel, Reuniculus end up getting walled too often.

One thing you should think about though is having two trick room users, because its not too hard to stall through one, but two would make it very difficult for a non trick room team to stall through. Or at least planning no switching Reuniculus out and letting him come back in to TR again.

 

[Nightmare13]

Just thought I'd comment since I've been lurking this thread and copied the team pretty closely on PO to test. Only thing I changed was Protect > Focus Blast on Reuniclus, and Explosion > Rock Blast on Gigalith (also swapped Expert Belt for Normal Gem).

I hate running into Scrafty/Hydreigon with Reuniclus and not having Focus Blast, but it's not worth losing Protect for it. Like the person above me said, usually if that happens I either just Spore the trouble pokemon or switch Reuniclus out for Conkeldurr.

Hammer Arm missed 2 out of 3 times when I tried it (90% my ass), and I immediately went back to Drain Punch. The health recovery mitigates the burn damage (and then some) as well, so I think that should be fine. Though if anyone wants to do some calculations and see if Hammer Arm picks up any critical OHKOs, that would be interesting to see.

Gigalith hasn't impressed me a ton... Rock has a lot of common weaknesses it seems. But Explosion is still pretty good.

Love the team and I'll post back if I make any changes or have new thoughts.

 

[Fantom0]

I know Hammer Arm helps me a lot. I can't really be bothered to run calcs, but have you ever thrown a Hammer Arm at, say, a Druddigon, and flat-out KOed it? Tried Drain Punch too? Yeah. Druddigon is but one example of an OHKO where Drain Punch fails. I see your point, though, Drain Punch does mitigate burn damage, but what use is that if you could just OHKO all of your opponent's pokemon easy?

 

[M. Rock]

It's been a busy couple of days, so I haven't had the time for more testing. It doesn't look like I'll get to playing tonight, but I figured that I'd post back here so that the thread doesn't die. There are three things I will try to test tomorrow (in the following order)

1. Basic Changes - Giving Reuniclus Protect, Conkledurr Hammer Arm, and Gigalith Explosion + Normal Gem. DONE (APPROVED)

2. Druddigon - Looking at Conkledurr made me wonder what other powerful Pokemon were out there that had a priortiy move and could abuse TR. Gigalith is cool, but not integral, so I will temporarily replace him just to see what Drudd can do. I was thinking Dragon STAB move, Sucker Punch (very useful in doubles), Rock Slide, Protect (he needs no fire move because Conkledurr handles steels). As for ability, Rough Skin is cool, but Sheer Force increases power greatly and gives Rock Slide a lot of extra oomph in additon to flinch. DONE (APPROVED)

3. Second TR user - I orignally considered this, but dropped it because of the overbearing weakness to Dark and Ghost attacks seeing as how mostly phsychics have it. However, seeing as how not many teams would expect to handle another 5 turns of TR, this idea could work. Gigalith will temporarily be replaced with maybe Beheeyem or someone to set up TR after Reuniclus dies (Amoongus almost always outlives him anyway, so this could work).

To move things along, I will use a testing period of 4 battles for each one. The thread will only be updated with changes that are successful and that I want to permanently keep. As good as Gigalith is, he's the most expendable becauce I really only use him to get a STAB boost off of a good flinch move. If you've copied the team and tried it out, feel free to test these as well and post the results. Also feel free to critique the ideas. Even if some are stupid, I want to try anyway just to see for myself.

 

[Fantom0]

Just a small thing, but...
Sheer Force gets rid of Rock Slide's chance to flinch...
just thought I'd point that out

 

[M. Rock]

I know, I just fail at proof-reading XP.

Anyway, #1 has been tested, and Hammer Arm is the preferred option for immediate power. I came to realize that if Scrafty uses Charm on Conkledurr, even if Scrafty is at about 1/3 health, Drain Punch will not KO, but Hammer Arm will. Not to mention, it makes him slower for purposes of TR abuse. Also, Hammer Arm does a better number on opposing Amoongus.
There are times when I wish Reuniclus had FB to immediately vanquish Scrafty leads, but protect is arguably the safer choice. As for Gigalith, his usefulness really depends on who I'm facing. If the opponent frequently goes for the double protect, it becomes rather difficult to land a succesful Explosion and predict when the opponent will not protect. Also, Rock Slide often seems to be his go-to move anyway, so I don't think having Explosion makes too much of a difference. However, since it is becoming common on other Gigaliths now, I at least know what to expect.

EDIT: #2 tested. Druddigon has great synergy with my team, so much so that I extended my testing with him to 8 battles. With access to Sucker Punch, he's not a sitting duck after TR is over, unlike Gigalith. I'll do calcs later, but I'm pretty sure his Sheer Force-boosted Rock Slide is stronger than Gigalith @ Normal Gem. Will update the RMT with the information.

 

[M. Rock]

Yet again with the bumping. I still feel that I haven't reached a final conclusion with this team yet, so more rates certainly wouldn't hurt. There are just so many awesome things this gen that work with TR, and I want to experiment with the ones that I think will help my team. Also, I want to make sure I have a concept as efficeint as possible so I know what to RNG. It's really annoying to RNG perfect pokemon and then find out I need to do another because of a team change...