https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-909250380
Mdb told me to post this here
Mdb told me to post this here
i may have misinterpreted this but i dont get the point of this post. youre nomming reuniclus and telling me why gar is a good teammate but not why i should use reuni + gar core over gar + one of the 40 other viable sweepers in ag. Gar is indeed a very good teammate for sure, it makes literally every relevant pokemon a S rank mon if paired with it. this sounds weird but think about -> lets take necrozma-ultra as an example. gar can remove dark types like darkceus with focus blast and ygod with perish song/disable set (the one youre running) and then unecro pretty much sweeps. gar removes waterceus / darkceus / fairyceus / skarm for dusk mane. also removes fairyceus / waterceus / something else for zygarde/ekiller/groundceus/darkceus and so on.When I was drawing up a team for reuniclus, it didn't take me long to realize that I needed a way to deal with Dark types. Disable Psong mgar invalidates any form of Darkceus(except for ice beam variants but those are terrible anyway), Defensive Yveltal, Even Life Orb, ttar. While it may not be a switchin, most individuals send these pokemon out to deal with mgar, and this set provides the perfect support needed. Removing Dark Types is very big, as Uni can easily dominate Balances once its check (as there is often only one) is removed. While I don't avidly support Uni moving up enough to argue people to the ground, I urge people to really look at what one supportive mon can do for Reuniclus. Thank you.
Honestly I strongly support this nomSorry for posting again, but I wanted to jump on the moving Pokemon to D bandwagon and see if we can get this cute pokemon next to the 'big bad legendaries', as MZ would say.
View attachment 175664 Umbreon: UR -> D
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Moonlight
- Heal Bell
So I was inspired to use this after seeing Purple use this in ubers, and honestly, I thought this pokemon would be more effective in ag. I have got some results using Umbreon, I peaked with 2k elo earlier and I do have some replays down below of it doing some work. In general ladder isn't a good skill indicator, however 99% of people looking at VR will be building for ladder, so I think ladder results are fair to use to help with nominations. Not going to prove it, just going to have to take my word for it. Anyway, let's go ahead and see what Umbreon does.
What Umbreon does
I use Umbreon generally as an Ultra Check, Heal Bell user and a secondary Ekiller check most of the time (secondary check as Ekiller can 2HKO Umbreon at +2, and Foul Play cannot OHKO +2 Ekiller; however can after a little chip). Umbreon can do other things like switch in on support arcs like Arc Ground and Arc Dark to spread Toxic or chip Pokemon with Foul Play, but in general, those 3 roles are what I have allocated to Umbreon and everything else is a bonus. It can also act as an emergency Dusk Mane check either against Weakness Policy Mane or if its Z move has already been used. An extremely important aspect about Umbreon is that it is a Heal Bell user that doesn't get trapped by Mega Gengar other than Blissey; this is significant as I don't think Blissey is that great personally and therefore it has a distinctive niche against all the other Heal Bell users in the game. In addition to this I would like to highlight that Umbreon is a heal bell user and an UR Pokemon that isn't complete setup bait; I can't say that about all the other Heal Bell users in the game. This is the best set and EV spread I could come up for Umbreon, I generally prefer Toxic Moonlight to Wish Protect as I think it's slightly less passive that way. If you can think of a better EV spread, let me know and tell me why you think so!
Umbreon's niche over other Dark types in AG
I think the three other Pokemon that are most comparable to Umbreon are Darkceus, Mega Sableye and Yveltal. In this analysis I will only be considering defensive Yveltal; this is because defensive Yveltal and Umbreon play similar roles. Offensive Yveltal sets play a completely different role to Umbreon and is trying to break the opposing team not be an Ultra/Ekiller check, so again I will only be considering defensive Yveltal. Why use Umbreon over other dark types in AG? This is a list of niche's I've compiled against all the other dark types in AG:
View attachment 175668 Advantages over Darkceus:
- Access to Foul Play is huge, better than Judgment in most scenarios due to not letting physical Pokemon set up.
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Synchronise is a decent ability; Darkceus effectively doesn't have any ability, it's ability is being dark type. While Synchronise isn't amazing it can still surprise and punish Toxic users that are not Steel or Poison, and then can immediately Heal Bell its status off.
- Able to run Leftovers instead of Dread Plate, which is better in general.
- Able to check CM variants of Ultra Necrozma.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Darkceus:
- While it has access to Foul Play and Heal Bell, Darkceus still has a much wider movepool as it is an Arceus-forme and is much more versatile than Umbreon. Darkceus can run CM, Wisp, Perish Song, Defog, Ice Beam; Umbreon can run none of these.
- Darkceus still has more overall bulk, due to its 120/120/120/120/120/120 base stats.
- Darkceus is much faster than Umbreon and does not get shut down by Taunt like Umbreon does.
- Recover has more PP than Moonlight, 16 vs 8; if Umbreon is not running Moonlight, it has to run Wish and Protect which uses up one extra moveslot and means you have to make predicts on when to Protect. Recover is not affected by weather conditions.
View attachment 175671 Advantages over Yveltal:
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Only takes 12 damage when coming into rocks.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Yveltal:
- Dark Aura is overall a better ability than Synchronise, increases Foul Play output.
- Yveltal has access to Defog and Taunt.
- Roost has more PP than moonlight, not affected by weather conditions.
- Yveltal is faster than Umbreon; this allows Yveltal to check non Jolly Swords Dance Z Dusk Mane's, as it can outspeed and OHKO; Umbreon is OHKO'd by a +2 Z Sunsteel strike (calcs below).
- Able to check Ekiller
View attachment 175672 Advantages over Mega Sableye:
- Umbreon doesn't take up a mega slot.
- Able to hold an item.
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Slightly bulkier than Mega Sableye; much more HP, which allows it to check SD Outrage variants of Ultra Necrozma, something Mega Sableye cannot do safely.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Mega Sableye:
- Magic bounce is superior to Synchronise.
- Recover has more PP than Moonlight, not affected by weather conditions.
- In this case, I think the additional ghost typing is beneficial; it allows Mega Sableye to check X-scissor/Brick Break variants of Ultra, and of course, means it now only has one weakness.
- Able to check Ekiller
Note: Ttar is obviously another relevant dark type in AG but I will not be including it because again, it plays a completely different role to Umbreon.
View attachment 175673Clefable vs UmbreonView attachment 175674
I personally think you can draw really real comparisons between Umbreon and Clefable in their place in AG. At worst, I would say Clefable to Fairyceus and Xerneas is similar to Umbreon to Darkceus and Yveltal. Clefable is unique to the two other fairies because it has Heal Bell and unaware. In a similar way, Umbreon is unique compared to its Dark counterparts as it has Heal Bell and some other little niches that are different depending on if you compare Umbreon to Darkceus or to Yveltal. In addition to this, Clefable gets trapped by M Gengar, Umbreon does not, Umbreon has better overall bulk than Clefable and I think more things set up and threaten Clefable than they do Umbreon due to Foul Play. However, the main point is that if Clefable is D rank, then I think for relatively similar reasoning Umbreon should be D rank as well.
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 528-622 (134.3 - 158.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 331-391 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 370-436 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Brick Break vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 348-410 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 291-343 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 190-225 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 276-325 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 291-343 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Umbreon: 190-225 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 330-390 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 433-513 (129.2 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-910651839 - Heal bell was pretty clutch here, the MU vs Mega Gar could have been much worse if I didn't get the Heal Bell off. Was also able to Toxic the Darkceus and wear it down.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-911336783 - Again, Heal Bell was clutch again as without it I lost to DD Sub Zygarde
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-911319702 - Able to OHKO Dusk, get off the Heal Bell and that was the game over from there pretty much.
There are other replays of Umbreon doing stuff but I've only shown replays where it was better to have Umbreon instead of let's say, Darkceus. I haven't got that many replays because I haven't used Umbreon for super long and I also forget to save them sometimes as well.
Conclusion:
Overall, it's obviously not a perfect Pokemon that has flaws. But isn't that with all the Pokemon in D? I've identified clear niche's it has over its competition, and as a result, I think this counts as a legitimate nom, so I hope the council at least considers this Pokemon thoroughly. This took like an hour and a half to write, so please read and evaluate it and don't write it off straight away. Look forward to AGLT playoffs, see you all then.
Naganadel B- to BNagandel B- to B
this dude sweeps literally every balance team. It gets real good STAB combination and Fire blast as the coverage move, which means pretty much nothing resists all of its 3 moves (except Heatran, but thats not very common so its fine D:). Bcz of its STAB/Coverage combination, it forces out many mons (Rayquaza, Zygarde, Fairyceus, Waterceus, Poisonceus, every mon which ends with ceus except Ground, Skarm/Celesteela/Ferro) which gives it plenty of set up opportunities. +2 Z Draco OHKOs everything, +2 Draco is also very strong. The only way to stop this is by using priority or just prevent it from setting up (which is usually pretty hard esp if youre using balance or stall). If youve faced this in a battle you'll know that you have to sack a mon or two to have a chance at killing this. I honestly think its pretty underrated and should be ranked higher.
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 524-618 (118 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 535-630 (120.4 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 357-421 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
uhh yeah z draco ohkos everything that doesnt resist it.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-916199544 sweeps w/o support
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-916035171 gets important kills, notice how opponent sacks his mons before going to his actual check bc Z move kills it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-916507702 gets 2 kills easily
Kartana UR to D
this is another very underrated and underused mon. Im pretty sure it used to be ranked at one point but idk what happened. Theres 3 main sets - SD Z move, SD Life Orb + Sub and SD Tailwind. Its straight up impossible to stop any of these sets if Kartana has sticky webs support. Kartana has amazing physical bulk which means that priority cannot beat it easily. Another well written Kartana nom
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 466-549 (105.6 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy on a critical hit: 394-465 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (z tailwind)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 341-403 (77.3 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^^ all of these are without grassy terrain.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Grassy Terrain: 468-551 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Groudon-Primal in Grassy Terrain: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Groudon D to UR
what does this even do lol? I mean ig it gets up rocks but theres 10 other rocks setter Id use over this. SD Z move/life orb is outclassed by SD Pdon/Groundceus and even Zygarde. This is pretty much the only D rank mon which I think should be unranked bc its garbage and doesnt do anything.
btw, I 100% support the umbreon nom and I request all the other council members to use it before they vote on it. Umbreon is definitely not outclassed by other dark types in AG, Synchronize + Wish + Heal Bell with good bulk makes it pretty unique and it doesnt need a lot of support from teammates other than a fairy pokemon switch, poisonceus/dusk mane/primal groudon/whatever.
So I'm not going over the rest because I couldn't care less, but there's many problems with this nom. Your first point is easily setting up tr, but you fail to mention how staka is complete ass outside of it and therefore must almost always waste a turn to set it up, for which the opponent could cripple it, phaze it, put it in range of smth, or just switch into an answer. 26th in usage is so irrelevant, bad players can spam it to their hearts content. In fact, this hurts your point even since it proves it has way more usage than it should, being way over hyped. Your next point is, tbh, laughably bad. It's literally not "the best mray check". All that counts is by if a pokemon forces another out. For that point you could use defensive heatran with Balloon to force mray out. That stat is not a good representation at all of checks and counters and should never be used as a means of nomming a pokemon. Next, you say it does well vs offensive teams, which is true, but once again, outside of full tr teams it struggles to set up. Then, another bad point. Saying "it shines once the checks are removed" is, to be blunt, an absolutely horrendous way to argue for vr. You could make that point about any garbage Mon based on that poor logicStakataka UR -> D
All right so we are back with a stakataka to D nom, Stakataka is absolutely amazing in ag, it's ability to easily set up trick room against plenty of metagame staples and sweep through teams is amazing. Stakataka is currently 26th in usage in ag putting it above all D rank pokemon except for tapu lele by usage. Air ballon stakataka is still the number 1 mray check by usage stats (Source) and once stakataka gets going it becomes almost impossible to stop. Stakataka does struggle against very bulky teams but against offensive teams it shines and against balance teams it shines once the bulky pokemon have been removed
I don't understand your problem with those points, for starters using usage as an argument is encouraged, my point being that stakataka usually either forces mray to switch or use an attack that will do like 10 either way you get trick room up and you are in position to sweep, furthermore there are plenty of pokemon that are not good on non offense teams in vr, the best examples being vivillon and naganadel in my opinion. Also I have never had trouble setting up trick room with stakataka, there is always at least 1 pokemon on any team that stakataka can set up on. Also stakataka is viable outside of full tr, I made a semi tr HO and stakataka almost always put in work as you can see from plenty of replays I posted. I would even argue that stakataka is viable on non offense teams as a way to deal with threats such as ekiller and mray.So I'm not going over the rest because I couldn't care less, but there's many problems with this nom. Your first point is easily setting up tr, but you fail to mention how staka is complete ass outside of it and therefore must almost always waste a turn to set it up, for which the opponent could cripple it, phaze it, put it in range of smth, or just switch into an answer. 26th in usage is so irrelevant, bad players can spam it to their hearts content. In fact, this hurts your point even since it proves it has way more usage than it should, being way over hyped. Your next point is, tbh, laughably bad. It's literally not "the best mray check". All that counts is by if a pokemon forces another out. For that point you could use defensive heatran with Balloon to force mray out. That stat is not a good representation at all of checks and counters and should never be used as a means of nomming a pokemon. Next, you say it does well vs offensive teams, which is true, but once again, outside of full tr teams it struggles to set up. Then, another bad point. Saying "it shines once the checks are removed" is, to be blunt, an absolutely horrendous way to argue for vr. You could make that point about any garbage Mon based on that poor logic
Staka isn't bad, but it needs a full team with tr to do anything, and since trick room isn't very good, it should stay UR.
I want to say that I do agree with AGL here.I don't understand your problem with those points, for starters using usage as an argument is encouraged, my point being that stakataka usually either forces mray to switch or use an attack that will do like 10 either way you get trick room up and you are in position to sweep, furthermore there are plenty of pokemon that are not good on non offense teams in vr, the best examples being vivillon and naganadel in my opinion. Also I have never had trouble setting up trick room with stakataka, there is always at least 1 pokemon on any team that stakataka can set up on. Also stakataka is viable outside of full tr, I made a semi tr HO and stakataka almost always put in work as you can see from plenty of replays I posted. I would even argue that stakataka is viable on non offense teams as a way to deal with threats such as ekiller and mray.
It's not bad against offense even, if you have screens up. Balance, it doesn't necessarily need screens, but it goddamned likes them. It also completely rekts stall:Nagandel B- to B
this dude sweeps literally every balance team without support. It gets really good STAB combination and Fire blast as the coverage move, which means pretty much nothing resists all of its 3 moves (except Heatran, but thats not very common so its fine D:). Bcz of its STAB/Coverage combination, it forces out many mons (Rayquaza, Zygarde, Fairyceus, Waterceus, Poisonceus, every mon which ends with ceus except Ground, Skarm/Celesteela/Ferro) which gives it plenty of set up opportunities. After 1 nasty plot, its pretty much unstoppable. +2 Z Draco OHKOs everything, +2 Draco is also very strong. The only way to stop this is by using multiple priority or just prevent it from setting up (which is usually pretty hard esp if youre using balance or stall). If youve faced this in a battle you'll know that you have to sack a mon or two to have a chance at killing this. I honestly think its pretty underrated and should be ranked higher.
This post is pretty in depth and since Zenithial took the time to type this up, I'll take the time to address it.Ultra Necrozma S- to A+![]()
This raise puzzled me, to be honest. I think an issue with some of the raises/drops recently is the lack of precedent. Since Ultra was raised to A+, I haven't seen it do anything special that would warrant it a raise to S-, and frankly, this pokemon has some major issues. Now I know I have nommed this Pokemon before and said some great things about it, but S- is freakishly good, and this Pokemon definitely has some flaws. The two main issues are as follows:
- Dark types
- Easily revenge killed
Now, I know dark types don't stop it per se, but there's some important things to consider. One is that you can only check one of the darks; either darkceus or yveltal, not both. So this means there's a 50 50 chance of you being completely stopped by a check. Secondly, it also means you have to drop sunsteel for coverage in stone edge or x-scissor. The issue with this is that you need a xern check alongside Ultra; this isn't a major issue but it is extremely annoying. It basically forces to use Poisonceus alongside ultra, which isn't terrible but stacks ground weakness a LOT, I have had this problem a lot with cm groundceus just steamrolling through my team. The other alternative is to use Dawn Wings to ultra burst alongside spdef mane, which again isn't bad but Dawn Wings prior to ultra bursting is far from ideal. One final thing is that X-scissor cannot actually OHKO max defensive darkceus; and is a roll against Darceus running some speed (calcs below). This kind of sucks, and there's also the fact that to bypass Yveltal you need to run Stone edge which can ultimately miss quite a bit. Charti Yveltal is pretty much off the radar, but it's not impossible to run into it and so that also does limit Ultra Necrozma's breaking capabilities. I'm just trying to say that Ultra can't indefinitely bypass its checks; a little luck is still necessary here.
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 164 Def Arceus-Dark: 392-462 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Dark: 336-396 (75.8 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
There are a lot of things that can revenge kill Ultra, and I mean a LOT of common threats. These include: Mega Gengar, Marshadow, Scarf Xerneas, Scarf/Sucker Punch Yveltal, Mega Rayqauza, Lunala, which are all excellent Pokemon/sets in their own right. The point here is that ultra's sweeping potential is very low; it might be able to take out something with its Z, but other than that it won't be able to do much else.
I have also felt like CM ultra has dropped off a lot; that might just be me, but I feel Swords Dance is by far the predominant set in ag now. This increases the number of checks it has (Darkceus and Skarmory are now much more reliable checks) and also increases its predictability and ease to play around. Sure, the surprise of CM is still there, but as a reflection of the meta it has to be said that it lowers ultra's viability. One last note, Mega Sableye while is quite rare is still around and only loses to sd outrage, which can leave ultra exposed to damage or allows an opposing Pokemon to set up for free.
Kyogre B- to B![]()
Another thing I have noticed is the falling usage of Primal Groudon. Not significant drops, but definitely noteworthy. This helps base Kyogre massively, as Primal Groudon is easily its biggest adversary by far. There's not that much to say here, only two sets there really are is scarf and specs; scarf is a decent revenge killer and water spout annihilates support arc formes, and as for specs that just blows through everything that tries to switch into it, with the exception of Primal Groudon. You could say Kyogre's effectiveness is reflected by MDB's rmt, reaching an impressive elo and gxe considering he was using a B- ranked Pokemon.
An important theme here is that I think precedent and evidence is extremely important for noms at the moment; everything is so close and the VR is in reasonable shape which means for Pokemon to move up and down ranks it should be backed up significantly. Recently I don't think that's been the case with some exceptions; examples of Pokemon with good evidence and support in the last few months and have been moved up, as a result, are as follows:
- Heatran![]()
- Koko![]()
- Mewtwo![]()
I just feel with some of the other noms, there's just been a lack of evidence and an element of randomness about some of the changes, including changes made within the council that no one asked for, even though it's the people that make the noms who actually play the game. I don't think it's up to the council to shift it any way they want, it should be left to the users to nom things in my opinion. Ghostceus, Grassceus and Ultra were all fine where they were, but I've only talked about ultra as that's the one I feel the strongest about. However, random stuff coming in and out of D has also seemed extremely weird, Serp was in D and then dropped out immediately, M gyra was raised to D with no real precedent and with no one really using it or providing replays. I'm just looking for some more consistent with where the council wants to go with VR, and I do think the clarification of D rank has helped but we'll wait and see what the future brings.
Lastly, hate to say it but I do finally agree with a nom that has come up quite frequently and it's been coming for a while.
YveltalA to A-![]()
Going to keep it really brief, as others have already talked about this extensively. Rocks are probably the biggest pain for this Pokemon, if it took 12 instead of 25 coming in on rocks I would have kept it at A for sure. But, at the end of the day offensive sets struggle to break through Arceus-formes- with the exception of webs. However, webs in itself is not that popular of a playstyle, mostly due to the fact that defog is absolutely everywhere. While it is still effective, I don't think webs is that reflective of the meta. Scarf, while not terrible is too weak in general, there is much better revenge killing options out there. Lastly, as Skarph has said while the defensive set is probably the most effective in ag at the moment, it can be pressured greatly with rocks and is limited as a defensive option due to this.
Edit: I also think it makes sense for Yveltal and Darkceus to be on the same rank; and I think it's clear that Yveltal is closer to A- than Darkceus is to A, so a drop to A- is logical in my opinion.
Thanks for reading and I'll catch you guys later.
While I agree that deoxys attack is absolutely incredible under terrain, the problem with this argument making it B- is that it RELIES on terrain.Deoxys Attack C -> B-
Deoxys attack is an absolutely amazing sweeper and was absolutely fine at B-
The first thing we need to talk about when talking about deoxys attack is its abilites in terrain, +2 deo a can ohko almost the enitre metagame with psychic. I feel like many people are sleeping on the potential of psyspam but really psyspam is a viable strategy that I feel like goes unappreciated by those who don't use it, The facts are that there isn't a single pokemon in the game that can safely switch in on a deoxys attack in psychic terrain
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-900534654
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-845534447
Excellent noms, I'll discuss each in a bit more detail:Nagandel B- to B
this dude sweeps literally every balance team without support. It gets really good STAB combination and Fire blast as the coverage move, which means pretty much nothing resists all of its 3 moves (except Heatran, but thats not very common so its fine D:). Bcz of its STAB/Coverage combination, it forces out many mons (Rayquaza, Zygarde, Fairyceus, Waterceus, Poisonceus, every mon which ends with ceus except Ground, Skarm/Celesteela/Ferro) which gives it plenty of set up opportunities. After 1 nasty plot, its pretty much unstoppable. +2 Z Draco OHKOs everything, +2 Draco is also very strong. The only way to stop this is by using multiple priority or just prevent it from setting up (which is usually pretty hard esp if youre using balance or stall). If youve faced this in a battle you'll know that you have to sack a mon or two to have a chance at killing this. I honestly think its pretty underrated and should be ranked higher.
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Naganadel: 195-231 (67.9 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 524-618 (118 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 535-630 (120.4 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 357-421 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
uhh yeah z draco ohkos everything that doesnt resist it.
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 328-387 (97.9 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 240-283 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 207-244 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 357-421 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (ekiller/ghost/groundy)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 177-208 (61.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 161-191 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 138-163 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKOKartana UR to Dhttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-916035171 gets important kills, notice how opponent sacks his mons before going to his actual check bc Z move kills it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-916507702 gets 2 kills easily
this is another very underrated and underused mon. Im pretty sure it used to be ranked at one point but idk what happened. Theres 3 main sets - SD Z move, SD Life Orb + Sub and SD Tailwind. Its straight up impossible to stop any of these sets if Kartana has sticky webs support (ill post the calcs to prove these points). Kartana has amazing physical bulk which means that priority cannot beat it easily. I didnt wanna write much so heres another Kartana nom
z move:
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 466-549 (105.6 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (w/o terrain)
252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Groudon-Primal in Grassy Terrain: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh in Grassy Terrain: 221-261 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (ho-oh is 4* resist jbtw)
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Grassy Terrain: 446-525 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 462-544 (110 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
z tailwind:
+2 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy on a critical hit: 394-465 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow on a critical hit: 339-400 (105.6 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Grassy Terrain on a critical hit: 344-405 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
life orb:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 341-403 (77.3 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Grassy Terrain: 468-551 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Groudon-Primal in Grassy Terrain: 472-555 (116.8 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs scarf ray
252 Atk Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 198-234 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 413-486 (117.6 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKOGroudon D to UR
what does this even do lol? I mean ig it gets up rocks but theres 10 other rocks setter Id use over this. SD Z move/life orb is outclassed by SD Pdon/Groundceus and even Zygarde. This is pretty much the only D rank mon which I think should be unranked bc its garbage and doesnt do anything.
btw, I 100% support the umbreon nom and I request all the other council members to use it before they vote on it. Umbreon is definitely not outclassed by other dark types in AG, Synchronize + Wish + Heal Bell with good bulk makes it pretty unique and it doesnt need a lot of support from teammates other than a fairy pokemon switch, poisonceus/dusk mane/primal groudon/whatever.
This must've taken a while to write up! Solid nom, I'll make sure to ensure that it's taken seriously in the next VR updateSorry for posting again, but I wanted to jump on the moving Pokemon to D bandwagon and see if we can get this cute pokemon next to the 'big bad legendaries', as MZ would say.
Umbreon: UR -> D![]()
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Moonlight
- Heal Bell
So I was inspired to use this after seeing Purple use this in ubers, and honestly, I thought this pokemon would be more effective in ag. I have got some results using Umbreon, I peaked with 2k elo earlier and I do have some replays down below of it doing some work. In general ladder isn't a good skill indicator, however 99% of people looking at VR will be building for ladder, so I think ladder results are fair to use to help with nominations. Not going to prove it, just going to have to take my word for it. Anyway, let's go ahead and see what Umbreon does.
What Umbreon does
I use Umbreon generally as an Ultra Check, Heal Bell user and a secondary Ekiller check most of the time (secondary check as Ekiller can 2HKO Umbreon at +2, and Foul Play cannot OHKO +2 Ekiller; however can after a little chip). Umbreon can do other things like switch in on support arcs like Arc Ground and Arc Dark to spread Toxic or chip Pokemon with Foul Play, but in general, those 3 roles are what I have allocated to Umbreon and everything else is a bonus. It can also act as an emergency Dusk Mane check either against Weakness Policy Mane or if its Z move has already been used. An extremely important aspect about Umbreon is that it is a Heal Bell user that doesn't get trapped by Mega Gengar other than Blissey; this is significant as I don't think Blissey is that great personally and therefore it has a distinctive niche against all the other Heal Bell users in the game. In addition to this I would like to highlight that Umbreon is a heal bell user and an UR Pokemon that isn't complete setup bait; I can't say that about all the other Heal Bell users in the game. This is the best set and EV spread I could come up for Umbreon, I generally prefer Toxic Moonlight to Wish Protect as I think it's slightly less passive that way. If you can think of a better EV spread, let me know and tell me why you think so!
Umbreon's niche over other Dark types in AG
I think the three other Pokemon that are most comparable to Umbreon are Darkceus, Mega Sableye and Yveltal. In this analysis I will only be considering defensive Yveltal; this is because defensive Yveltal and Umbreon play similar roles. Offensive Yveltal sets play a completely different role to Umbreon and is trying to break the opposing team not be an Ultra/Ekiller check, so again I will only be considering defensive Yveltal. Why use Umbreon over other dark types in AG? This is a list of niche's I've compiled against all the other dark types in AG:
Advantages over Darkceus:![]()
- Access to Foul Play is huge, better than Judgment in most scenarios due to not letting physical Pokemon set up.
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Synchronise is a decent ability; Darkceus effectively doesn't have any ability, it's ability is being dark type. While Synchronise isn't amazing it can still surprise and punish Toxic users that are not Steel or Poison, and then can immediately Heal Bell its status off.
- Able to run Leftovers instead of Dread Plate, which is better in general.
- Able to check CM variants of Ultra Necrozma.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Darkceus:
- While it has access to Foul Play and Heal Bell, Darkceus still has a much wider movepool as it is an Arceus-forme and is much more versatile than Umbreon. Darkceus can run CM, Wisp, Perish Song, Defog, Ice Beam; Umbreon can run none of these.
- Darkceus still has more overall bulk, due to its 120/120/120/120/120/120 base stats.
- Darkceus is much faster than Umbreon and does not get shut down by Taunt like Umbreon does.
- Recover has more PP than Moonlight, 16 vs 8; if Umbreon is not running Moonlight, it has to run Wish and Protect which uses up one extra moveslot and means you have to make predicts on when to Protect. Recover is not affected by weather conditions.
Advantages over Yveltal:![]()
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Only takes 12 damage when coming into rocks.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Yveltal:
- Dark Aura is overall a better ability than Synchronise, increases Foul Play output.
- Yveltal has access to Defog and Taunt.
- Roost has more PP than moonlight, not affected by weather conditions.
- Yveltal is faster than Umbreon; this allows Yveltal to check non Jolly Swords Dance Z Dusk Mane's, as it can outspeed and OHKO; Umbreon is OHKO'd by a +2 Z Sunsteel strike (calcs below).
- Able to check Ekiller
Advantages over Mega Sableye:![]()
- Umbreon doesn't take up a mega slot.
- Able to hold an item.
- Access to Heal Bell.
- Slightly bulkier than Mega Sableye; much more HP, which allows it to check SD Outrage variants of Ultra Necrozma, something Mega Sableye cannot do safely.
Disadvantages of running Umbreon over Mega Sableye:
- Magic bounce is superior to Synchronise.
- Recover has more PP than Moonlight, not affected by weather conditions.
- In this case, I think the additional ghost typing is beneficial; it allows Mega Sableye to check X-scissor/Brick Break variants of Ultra, and of course, means it now only has one weakness.
- Able to check Ekiller
Note: Ttar is obviously another relevant dark type in AG but I will not be including it because again, it plays a completely different role to Umbreon.
Clefable vs Umbreon![]()
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I personally think you can draw really real comparisons between Umbreon and Clefable in their place in AG. At worst, I would say Clefable to Fairyceus and Xerneas is similar to Umbreon to Darkceus and Yveltal. Clefable is unique to the two other fairies because it has Heal Bell and unaware. In a similar way, Umbreon is unique compared to its Dark counterparts as it has Heal Bell and some other little niches that are different depending on if you compare Umbreon to Darkceus or to Yveltal. In addition to this, Clefable gets trapped by M Gengar, Umbreon does not, Umbreon has better overall bulk than Clefable and I think more things set up and threaten Clefable than they do Umbreon due to Foul Play. However, the main point is that if Clefable is D rank, then I think for relatively similar reasoning Umbreon should be D rank as well.
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 528-622 (134.3 - 158.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 331-391 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 370-436 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Brick Break vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 348-410 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 291-343 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 190-225 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 276-325 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Umbreon: 291-343 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Umbreon: 190-225 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 330-390 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 433-513 (129.2 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-910651839 - Heal bell was pretty clutch here, the MU vs Mega Gar could have been much worse if I didn't get the Heal Bell off. Was also able to Toxic the Darkceus and wear it down.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-911336783 - Again, Heal Bell was clutch again as without it I lost to DD Sub Zygarde
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-911319702 - Able to OHKO Dusk, get off the Heal Bell and that was the game over from there pretty much.
There are other replays of Umbreon doing stuff but I've only shown replays where it was better to have Umbreon instead of let's say, Darkceus. I haven't got that many replays because I haven't used Umbreon for super long and I also forget to save them sometimes as well.
Conclusion:
Overall, it's obviously not a perfect Pokemon that has flaws. But isn't that with all the Pokemon in D? I've identified clear niche's it has over its competition, and as a result, I think this counts as a legitimate nom, so I hope the council at least considers this Pokemon thoroughly. This took like an hour and a half to write, so please read and evaluate it and don't write it off straight away. Look forward to AGLT playoffs, see you all then.
Some of this is dead wrong, some of this is fine. It's completely unfair to say things like "nobody asked for this" and "lack of evidence and an element of randomness" and "it's the people that make the noms who actually play the game". Council does play the game and we have reasoning behind the nominations that we make internally, and just because someone didn't bring it up in the thread doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. I don't really have an issue for small changes to lower rank mons like Grassceus whatsoever, they're pretty harmless and make the VR better. That being said, we're going to avoid doing council shifts for major high rank changes (see: Unecro) in the future and actually post about stuff like that so people have advance warning and can argue against it if they want.I just feel with some of the other noms, there's just been a lack of evidence and an element of randomness about some of the changes, including changes made within the council that no one asked for, even though it's the people that make the noms who actually play the game. I don't think it's up to the council to shift it any way they want, it should be left to the users to nom things in my opinion. Ghostceus, Grassceus and Ultra were all fine where they were, but I've only talked about ultra as that's the one I feel the strongest about. However, random stuff coming in and out of D has also seemed extremely weird, Serp was in D and then dropped out immediately, M gyra was raised to D with no real precedent and with no one really using it or providing replays. I'm just looking for some more consistent with where the council wants to go with VR, and I do think the clarification of D rank has helped but we'll wait and see what the future brings.
First is bullshit. Mgengar isn't the best, it's ok vs stall, but it can't really trap much nowadays, due to shed shell. It also has a humongous opportunity cost, giving up mray. It also has shitty defenses. IMO A+ is good for it. And other dragons shouldn't be S, S- is already pushing it IMO. Mray ofc should be S+. And aero to d yeah. Krook only is for bp, so it should be in the special list for that. Darkrai probably D as well.I personally feel MGengar should Be S- however this would be with the push of all the other dragons up a bump. So mray would be S+ while Ultra-necro and zygarde-C would be S. I feel MGengar is just better then both don and duskmane while at the same time just does not par up with the other dragons it don't have there versatility nor there power. It does have roughly the same splashablity as the Don and Duskmane. So for this to be called better I can see why some would say it should just stay A+. Pretty much all of us already kind of know what this mon does. Being a super fast utility trapper and attacker with many different sets between ball/wave/bomb/sub/taunt/song/disable/dbond/cancer hypnosis I feel it just has more ability then the other mons in all of A teir and really Shadow tag + high special + high speed + good typing is just to good in my eyes not to be S- rank. It just does stuff no other mon in the teir can do due to ghost and poison typing and shadow tag and high special. But we all already kind of got this. So the biggest real reason for it to rise is really because with the ultra-necrozma being S- rank. Mgar is able to revenge kill ultra-necrozma along with mray and even zygarde (only if dbond or if its mono arrows and you have disable) all 3 of the big dragons Guys let me know your thoughts on it being S- with the other dragons being S and ray being S+. The mon has been S- before and still feels as strong.
Other random general stuff I have my opinons about but prob wont happen so may or may not write up: aero zoroark krook rai all D rank yve back to A and mmy to B-
Alright this is a edit from like 1 am cuz yo i was to tired before but ok I back.First is bullshit. Mgengar isn't the best, it's ok vs stall, but it can't really trap much nowadays, due to shed shell. It also has a humongous opportunity cost, giving up mray. It also has shitty defenses. IMO A+ is good for it. And other dragons shouldn't be S, S- is already pushing it IMO. Mray ofc should be S+. And aero to d yeah. Krook only is for bp, so it should be in the special list for that. Darkrai probably D as well.
Nomming now:
Mega Mawile:
Good marsh check, good xern check, high powered. Not much to say, should be ranked as D. It's power is absurd, even outside of TR. In TR, though, its a overpowered sweeper.
Doesn't even mention sacred threads marshHowdy everyone. I'm back at the ol' lets nom some shit cause need to hit 100 posts for name change. Introducing the mon I have nommed to A+ once before, drum roll please
Marshadow A to A+![]()
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If this was your reaction then.. well, then you clearly think that Marshadow isn't A+ material I guess. In this post I will be talking about what I specifically think about Marshadow. I wont mention what other people might be thinking (in my mind I feel that Marsh gets a bad rap but maybe that's not what the majority actually thinks), cause I cant read minds. Marsh haters can come at me after I make this brief post tho
Lets talk about the most powerful sets
Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
Marshadow @ Marshadium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak / Substitute
Personally I believe that the Life Orb set is way scarier than the Z Move set. Don't get me wrong, Z Marshadow can be terrifying but.. I think the extra Life Orb damage is crucial for 2hko'ing certain switch ins to Marshadow. Pursuit Marsh has also became a completely legit option as a 4th move due to it being able to effectively remove MGar and heavily chip Goth. In some cases it is also useful for revenge killing say, Regen Ho-Oh or Mega-Rayquaza after its defense is lowered. Toxic is fantastic for breaking defensive Arcs and HpIce makes Zyg-C an unreliable switch in. There's also sub BU which can be especially scary for an opponent who relies on something like Will-O-Wisp Poisonceus or Arceus-Water to check Marshadow. Other than that, normal Z move Marsh is still a good set that can break Defensive Arc once it's chipped.
I'll make some bullet points to sum up what I think warrants a raise for Marsh
Here are some replays where Marshadow pretty much won the game by existing
- Gives offense tons of trouble
- New Arc cores are being used way more on balance, less fairyceus, more icebeam Waterceus/Groundceus/Darkceus. People are scared of MGar + Zyg-C from what I can see. Poisonceus+Darkceus+Waterceus has became popular, Marshadow is able to beat these arcs way easier than Arc-Fairy
- Very clutch in the later half of most battles, extremely good when few pokemon are left due to it being able to 2hko most switch ins while being incredibly fast and immunte to Espeed
- Gives stall tons of trouble, very difficult to build a non Marsh weak stall
- Hugely impacts teambuilding, changes the entirety of AG really. If you stack too many Marsh weak mons together on a team (Darkceus, Steelceus, Rockceus, Ekiller, Ferrothorn, MGar, Lunala, Etc.) it makes it incredibly difficult to win vs Marshadow without having a hard check like Fairyceus
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-935292535 marshadow vs hyper offense, marshadow put in massive work due to it being able to threaten -defense mray and steelceus
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-922248499 pursuit kills MGar turn 11. completely changes the flow of the game because MGar is essential to have for trapping Arceus-Fairy and Necrozma Dusk-Mane later on. Pursuit can't be taken as a 50/50 because of how just about every Marsh runs shadow sneak and way less use pursuit
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-936977469 marsh is able to clean up if i get the tie n hit edge, let me restate, marsh is super clutch near the end of games
Also I think all of the S, S-, and A+ ranks are fine as they are right now (after adding marsh!!)
Lasty, I can see Marshadow being in "the top" of A rank and not reaching A+ cause it's not on the level of MGar or PDon, but I really think Marsh is at least better than DM right now
Agree with aerodactyl. It's also really good for psyspam since it can keep rocks off, which basically no other lead can guarantee.Finally getting around to some other random stuff
Aerodactyl to D:
Ok this rock bird is just such a good suicide lead. It has 130 speed rock tomb to lower the speed stats of other mons it has rocks it has tailwind it has taunt and even defog for niche as well. Its main niches over other big suicide leads (namely deo-s) is that it works better on teams that don't need the magic coat support or have it else where (like psyspam) and rather much more so need tailwind or rock tomb + it still outpaces everything just like deo-s with the 130 speed. It seems to be pretty solid on all hos and works with some smash pass teams. Over all the tailwind support i feel makes it D rank to use over deo-s for some teams
MMY to B-:
This mon just does less damage then regular mewtwo with life orb takes up mega slot and only works on very specific balances
The speed increase and other general boost does allow it to do some m2 can't by outpacing gar and such but generally is outclassed by mewtwo and really this mon in general feels weak maybe i just underrate it but it does not feel on the same level at m2 to me
Mgyara to ur:
I suppose being a stall breaker is nice and all and thats about all it does. However if you really wanna counter stall just use heatran and don't take up your mega slot or also use band ray perhaps This thing just is a complete waste and another mon i never seen or cant remember seeing on any legit team where as another physical hitter mluke actually has some niches over ray weird how we keep this and remove the other. Just really weird and this mon just is a complete waste in my eyes
Mega bro to ur:
Similar kind of just flat waste as Mgyara is. Tanks slightly better then other stall megas but is generally just completely outclassed or unwanted because of either msab or mtar or hell even mvenu this thing just is not doing much vs any other stall mega and is well the only place to use it.
Mega gyarados can do something heatran can't do and that is be a general offensive presence even outside of the stall matchup, I don't have any replays but gyarados is able to set up on plenty of metagame threats such as Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, unecro, pdon ect. And with dragon Dance and decent offensive stats it is able to achieve sweeps. Although heatran doesn't waste a mega slot it is often dead weight in some matchups where mega gyarados does very wellFinally getting around to some other random stuff
Aerodactyl to D:
Ok this rock bird is just such a good suicide lead. It has 130 speed rock tomb to lower the speed stats of other mons it has rocks it has tailwind it has taunt and even defog for niche as well. Its main niches over other big suicide leads (namely deo-s) is that it works better on teams that don't need the magic coat support or have it else where (like psyspam) and rather much more so need tailwind or rock tomb + it still outpaces everything just like deo-s with the 130 speed. It seems to be pretty solid on all hos and works with some smash pass teams. Over all the tailwind support i feel makes it D rank to use over deo-s for some teams
MMY to B-:
This mon just does less damage then regular mewtwo with life orb takes up mega slot and only works on very specific balances
The speed increase and other general boost does allow it to do some m2 can't by outpacing gar and such but generally is outclassed by mewtwo and really this mon in general feels weak maybe i just underrate it but it does not feel on the same level at m2 to me
Mgyara to ur:
I suppose being a stall breaker is nice and all and thats about all it does. However if you really wanna counter stall just use heatran and don't take up your mega slot or also use band ray perhaps This thing just is a complete waste and another mon i never seen or cant remember seeing on any legit team where as another physical hitter mluke actually has some niches over ray weird how we keep this and remove the other. Just really weird and this mon just is a complete waste in my eyes
Mega bro to ur:
Similar kind of just flat waste as Mgyara is. Tanks slightly better then other stall megas but is generally just completely outclassed or unwanted because of either msab or mtar or hell even mvenu this thing just is not doing much vs any other stall mega and is well the only place to use it.