Unpopular opinions

SV also ties obedience to Badges + Capture level even on your own Pokemon, presumably to avoid someone being able to Steamroll the game by being carried through a high level raid with a local friend or simply wandering out and capturing overpowered Pokemon in the Open World Structure.

This could also go in the "Small things you like" thread for me because besides being a more elegant solution than "the Pokemon's too strong to throw a Ball at while battling" or the above mentioned Dynamax Adventure Legendaries, it's also a nice story-wise solution to the disobedient Pokemon scenario. I always wondered why they didn't take that approach since even the anime handled it that way with things like Ash's Charizard or Dawn's Mamoswine.
For sure.

I had a Pokémon that I wanted but couldn’t catch because it was one level above what I had the badge for and it’s just clunky.

I actually think this is the closest they can ever go to have a "level cap" without forcing an actual level cap.

I don't think a forced level cap would ever be good for the games either ways. I think the option to purposely overlevel if you are willing to extra grind is fine in general in RPGs (assuming you don't overlevel without even trying...), but having ways that prevent "cheating the system" like this one is quite fair.

Also I'm a big fan of the speedrun of SV anyway, eventually I need to get around to do a flamigo domination run myself...
The game that always comes to mind for me (because this is one I've actually played) is The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's DLC. You can go to the new areas at just Level 10 (Dawnguard) or straight out of the gate (Dragonborn, though the quest only starts after about a third of the main story) and there are some great rare spells/shouts/items to be had this way, but if you beeline right to it at the level you unlock it you're likely to get obliterated by high-level monsters unless you use exploits requiring knowledge of the game.

Heck, even Isle of Armor got the scaling pretty accurate. While you can just go straight to the island out of Wedgehurst (and in fact it's meant as an early-game area given the wild Pokemon levels there), Klara/Avery's team is roughly on par with Nessa in terms of levels (same goes for the tower trainers) and your Kubfu does need to like you before you can progress, so it feels a lot more natural without feeling like it's too easy or too impossible.
 
Last edited:
I personally don't want more Legends-type games at all. I think Legends was boring, a one and done game for me. Legends gutted so many hallmarks of the series it is practically unrecognizable (downplayed Trainer battles / no rival battles, no linear routes, little to no emphasis on making a balanced team outside the true final boss, obsessively focusing on catching em all when even from RBY on that was always a optional goal (outside of that weird Koga requirement in LGPE)
Not to invalidate your opinion - I certainly have my criticisms towards Legends, and it's not hard to see why someone may dislike it - but I don't see the problems with these things in and of themselves. Legends isn't a standard main-series game (in the same way that a game that SWSH or SV is), and I think it makes sense that it doesn't play like one. The de-emphasis on battling is supported by the setting, and I think catching taking its place makes much more sense when you consider the focus on exploration and the atmosphere of mystery that the game is aiming to establish. In particular, the mention of 'linear routes' strikes me as odd when the series is moving away from this pretty much entirely given the shift to an open-world structure.

...Not that these things don't need work, of course. I think the new battle system they implemented is really bad and weirdly unintuitive - changes to the damage formula, the Strong/Agile system, and the complete absence of spread moves just feels bad and turns Trainer battles into a series of revenge kills, which isn't very engaging, even in the context of a strictly single-player experience. I think the complete casualness with which you catch Pokemon also ends up devaluing individual catches a lot - neither PLA or SV strike a good balance here in my eyes, as the latter feels too slow for an open-world structure, too. I don't know how you'd go about fixing this. I also think the noble battles are dogshit, despite liking the idea of boss battles outside the context of standard battles. But personally, I'd rather see GF try to build on these things and improve them rather than abandon them entirely, especially after the glowing reception these games got. I think Legends makes for a very good structure to explore a region with a fresh coat of paint, and can add a lot to the original games in hindsight.

Again, my assertion here isn't "You're wrong to dislike these changes", because that's very subjective. What works for one person won't work for another, and that's totally fine. It's that changing up and experimenting with series tradition strikes me as a good thing, especially outside of the more 'standard' games in the series. With the previous flaws I mentioned ironed out, I'd be really excited to see a future Legends game for Unova or other regions.

...Actually, there is one thing I think mainline should take away from Legends - the usage of zones instead of an entire open world. I think this leads to much tighter and more involved level design overall, and keeps things from blending together too much like I find Paldea tends to do in my eyes. idk if this is unpopular or not, just felt like putting it out there while we're on the topic.
 
Not to invalidate your opinion - I certainly have my criticisms towards Legends, and it's not hard to see why someone may dislike it - but I don't see the problems with these things in and of themselves. Legends isn't a standard main-series game (in the same way that a game that SWSH or SV is), and I think it makes sense that it doesn't play like one. The de-emphasis on battling is supported by the setting, and I think catching taking its place makes much more sense when you consider the focus on exploration and the atmosphere of mystery that the game is aiming to establish. In particular, the mention of 'linear routes' strikes me as odd when the series is moving away from this pretty much entirely given the shift to an open-world structure.

...Not that these things don't need work, of course. I think the new battle system they implemented is really bad and weirdly unintuitive - changes to the damage formula, the Strong/Agile system, and the complete absence of spread moves just feels bad and turns Trainer battles into a series of revenge kills, which isn't very engaging, even in the context of a strictly single-player experience. I think the complete casualness with which you catch Pokemon also ends up devaluing individual catches a lot - neither PLA or SV strike a good balance here in my eyes, as the latter feels too slow for an open-world structure, too. I don't know how you'd go about fixing this. I also think the noble battles are dogshit, despite liking the idea of boss battles outside the context of standard battles. But personally, I'd rather see GF try to build on these things and improve them rather than abandon them entirely, especially after the glowing reception these games got. I think Legends makes for a very good structure to explore a region with a fresh coat of paint, and can add a lot to the original games in hindsight.

Again, my assertion here isn't "You're wrong to dislike these changes", because that's very subjective. What works for one person won't work for another, and that's totally fine. It's that changing up and experimenting with series tradition strikes me as a good thing, especially outside of the more 'standard' games in the series. With the previous flaws I mentioned ironed out, I'd be really excited to see a future Legends game for Unova or other regions.

...Actually, there is one thing I think mainline should take away from Legends - the usage of zones instead of an entire open world. I think this leads to much tighter and more involved level design overall, and keeps things from blending together too much like I find Paldea tends to do in my eyes. idk if this is unpopular or not, just felt like putting it out there while we're on the topic.
Great points! This post was a pleasure to read. The open world structure does work with the air of mystery, I'll definitely give you that.

I don't think I thought Legends was an outright bad game. I just think I'm more of a Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness kind of person when it comes to spinoffs - the battle system stays the same with a linear progression. Probably just a preference thing!

If anyone reading this likes Legends, I hope you continue to enjoy it! Maybe I'll go back to that game someday. It's just very rare for me to beat a Pokemon game and not have a desire to keep playing. And I'm definitely a completionist too - I fully completed Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time, also known as "the game you fully complete just to say you did it, even if full completion is remarkably unfulfilling."
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I think there's an inherent value to the core series of Pokemon branching out and doing more than just the classic mainline formula though: by doing more kinds of games than just the classic RBY styled traditional mainline game, they can more easily take advantage of Pokemon's inherently rapidfire mainline release schedule to have a wider variety of genres of games in the future, and as such it feels like not only is there something genuinely different the Pokemon mainline series can offer each year, making it feel less super repetitive, but that there can be different types of games that each appeal more to different target audiences and as such now there truly is something for everyone to enjoy each generation if they keep this up.

The cool thing about the previous generation with PLA in the picture is that not one of the mainline games were alike to each other in any way. You had Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, a POGO-style game, then you had SwSh, a traditional classic mainline game (even if it was on the eh side overall as a game), its "enhanced edition" instead being DLC for the game itself, adding the bells and whistles you would usually get from a third version to the original game itself thus keeping SwSh relevant on the market, and then you had Legends: Arceus, a game set in ancient Sinnoh that is more Action RPG and aggressively single player and focuses more on ancient Sinnoh lore.

And all three co-existed with each other for the past year or so and each remained relevant in its own right as a unique experience that Pokemon could offer. PLA was popular amongst a lot of people because there are many people who liked the ARPG aspect of it and whatnot, but for those who didn't, SwSh was always there to exist as a mainline game, and now we have Scarlet and Violet which is more of a classic Pokemon mainline that is now the current "flagship" game of the current generation and the main competitive/PvP hub. I would like to note that over the last year despite PLA being the center of attention in marketing, SwSh continued to remain relevant because it was still the current competitive hub.

Because PLA was so different, despite SV releasing this year PLA still had a substantial number of sales this previous holiday season because it still stood out for its unique genre compared to classic mainlines like SwSh and SV, and remained relevant in the stores alongside SV despite SV being the big mainline release of this year. Classic games and Legends games in that regard don't fully invalidate the other's existence and can co-exist and appeal to different groups. People who have become tired of the classic genre can find value in Legends games, and whatnot, while Legends games can appeal to more hardcore gameplay people who want that.

So in that regard I wouldn't mind future Legends games continuing to exist, and in fact I would love for them to exist and to have them be made alongside traditional mainline titles. Don't fully get rid of the classic mainline games, they're a seller and still a tried-and-true success formula, but more deviant mainline titles that co-exist alongside them can be a great thing. I personally loved PLA, and would love to see another Legends game made this generation that can co-exist with Scarlet and Violet as a game for Gen 9. And in doing so improve upon things from Legends: Arceus.

I would even love for them to return to 2D Pokemon RPGs that go all in on being 2D Pokemon to bring back the classic 2D Pokemon charm, as an additional offshoot genre of mainline games in addition to Legends games and classic mainline games like SV. Have Scarlet and Violet serve as our flagship classic mainline Pokemon game for all of Gen 9, and then do some offshoot games. Legends games, 2D-Octopath-like games even, or Let's Go if they really want to. Pokemon can absolutely benefit from branching like this and making a variety of genres of games within a single generation. They can each appeal to a different group of people and all of them can co-exist alongside one another and stay relevant in the market for the whole generation until the next one comes.

But yeah just a bit of a rant: but I think I would actually love for more Legends games to be made so long as classic mainline ones continue to be made alongside them. Legends can exist as its own sub-series within the core series while traditional mainline games continue to exist, and I would also like to see them make even more sub-genres and experiment with genres of RPGs for mainline Pokemon than just the classic mainline.

Really I think the last generation was the beginning of Pokemon becoming a more varied series from here on out, and I think that's a nice approach to take instead of an infinite repetitive loop of the exact same thing over and over again every year.
 
I think there's an inherent value to the core series of Pokemon branching out and doing more than just the classic mainline formula though: by doing more kinds of games than just the classic RBY styled traditional mainline game, they can more easily take advantage of Pokemon's inherently rapidfire mainline release schedule to have a wider variety of genres of games in the future, and as such it feels like not only is there something genuinely different the Pokemon mainline series can offer each year, making it feel less super repetitive, but that there can be different types of games that each appeal more to different target audiences and as such now there truly is something for everyone to enjoy each generation if they keep this up.

The cool thing about the previous generation with PLA in the picture is that not one of the mainline games were alike to each other in any way. You had Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, a POGO-style game, then you had SwSh, a traditional classic mainline game (even if it was on the eh side overall as a game), its "enhanced edition" instead being DLC for the game itself, adding the bells and whistles you would usually get from a third version to the original game itself thus keeping SwSh relevant on the market, and then you had Legends: Arceus, a game set in ancient Sinnoh that is more Action RPG and aggressively single player and focuses more on ancient Sinnoh lore.

And all three co-existed with each other for the past year or so and each remained relevant in its own right as a unique experience that Pokemon could offer. PLA was popular amongst a lot of people because there are many people who liked the ARPG aspect of it and whatnot, but for those who didn't, SwSh was always there to exist as a mainline game, and now we have Scarlet and Violet which is more of a classic Pokemon mainline that is now the current "flagship" game of the current generation and the main competitive/PvP hub. I would like to note that over the last year despite PLA being the center of attention in marketing, SwSh continued to remain relevant because it was still the current competitive hub.

Because PLA was so different, despite SV releasing this year PLA still had a substantial number of sales this previous holiday season because it still stood out for its unique genre compared to classic mainlines like SwSh and SV, and remained relevant in the stores alongside SV despite SV being the big mainline release of this year. Classic games and Legends games in that regard don't fully invalidate the other's existence and can co-exist and appeal to different groups. People who have become tired of the classic genre can find value in Legends games, and whatnot, while Legends games can appeal to more hardcore gameplay people who want that.

So in that regard I wouldn't mind future Legends games continuing to exist, and in fact I would love for them to exist and to have them be made alongside traditional mainline titles. Don't fully get rid of the classic mainline games, they're a seller and still a tried-and-true success formula, but more deviant mainline titles that co-exist alongside them can be a great thing. I personally loved PLA, and would love to see another Legends game made this generation that can co-exist with Scarlet and Violet as a game for Gen 9. And in doing so improve upon things from Legends: Arceus.

I would even love for them to return to 2D Pokemon RPGs that go all in on being 2D Pokemon to bring back the classic 2D Pokemon charm, as an additional offshoot genre of mainline games in addition to Legends games and classic mainline games like SV. Have Scarlet and Violet serve as our flagship classic mainline Pokemon game for all of Gen 9, and then do some offshoot games. Legends games, 2D-Octopath-like games even, or Let's Go if they really want to. Pokemon can absolutely benefit from branching like this and making a variety of genres of games within a single generation. They can each appeal to a different group of people and all of them can co-exist alongside one another and stay relevant in the market for the whole generation until the next one comes.

But yeah just a bit of a rant: but I think I would actually love for more Legends games to be made so long as classic mainline ones continue to be made alongside them. Legends can exist as its own sub-series within the core series while traditional mainline games continue to exist, and I would also like to see them make even more sub-genres and experiment with genres of RPGs for mainline Pokemon than just the classic mainline.

Really I think the last generation was the beginning of Pokemon becoming a more varied series from here on out, and I think that's a nice approach to take instead of an infinite repetitive loop of the exact same thing over and over again every year.
I'll agree once I can recognize that it has indeed branched instead of just taking a turn. If and when there's a recent ambitious game that focuses on the parts of the series I want to get out of a cartridge (as distinct from BDSP not changing any major aspects and thus accidentally keeping what brought me into the series), I'll cut Let's Go, Legends, and the open-world parts of SwSh and SV some slack. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do that right now.
 
I'll agree once I can recognize that it has indeed branched instead of just taking a turn. If and when there's a recent ambitious game that focuses on the parts of the series I want to get out of a cartridge (as distinct from BDSP not changing any major aspects and thus accidentally keeping what brought me into the series), I'll cut Let's Go, Legends, and the open-world parts of SwSh and SV some slack. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do that right now.
The last non-remake "traditional" mainline games were XY, a decade ago. Sun/Moon and sequels completely changed the gym challenge, eliminated HMs, and went with a very different map style. Let's Go was a remake and also was Let's Go. Sword/Shield then even got rid of the Ride replacements to HMs and went with an open world section and pokes visible in the overworld, as well as completely changing the E4. And then SV did...all of that. I don't know what the next games will bring, but "Linear 8 gyms into the E4 with the standard battle system" doesn't seem in the cards.
 
You mean SV turning the Gyms into the Treasure Hunt? I liked it but I also liked how the E4 was not the end of the story.
Open world, exclusively overworld-visible pokemon, 3 storylines, E4 not being the start of the postgame...I really enjoyed it, but it was definitely about as far from a mainline game as it's possible to be without major mechanic changes.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I meant largely in the context of other Megas. I think you have to argue quite hard to justify why you'd give your Mega slot to Glalie specifically over other - better - Megas on a diverse team (in-game or competitively). On a Hail team I could see why it might be the best option.

But generally speaking, is it worth using instead of Mega Kangaskhan, or Mega Metagross, or Mega Mawile, or Mega Lopunny? I'd say probably not.
AKA the general problems with Mega Pokemon, especially those of "weaker" or "niche" Pokemon who weren't given OP stat increase, Type change or new Ability. Not to mention all Mega Pokemon (except Rayquaza) need to give up their Item slot further holding back the lower tier Mega Pokemon.

Saying all this, I wonder if Mega Pokemon ever came back it should be redone. It was their first attempt at a Super Mechanic, I don't think anyone would blame them for a redo. Obviously don't toss out the designs, but I would take to heart what worked with Super Mechanics after Mega. Like one thing I would suggest without getting into hypotheticals: Allowing any Pokemon on your team capable of Mega Evolving to do so without giving up the Item slot. Give that flexibility which Dynamax and now Terastal have.

I personally don't want more Legends-type games at all. I think Legends was boring, a one and done game for me. Legends gutted so many hallmarks of the series it is practically unrecognizable (downplayed Trainer battles / no rival battles, no linear routes, little to no emphasis on making a balanced team outside the true final boss, obsessively focusing on catching em all when even from RBY on that was always a optional goal (outside of that weird Koga requirement in LGPE)), The counterparts really aren't that interesting - I'll take Scarlet and Violet's simple, but new storytelling over this any day of the week. I think Alola is like 50x better at what Legends was trying to do.

Alola has an actual narrative not shoved in at the very end
Well, how much is that the concept's fault and how much is it GF's? The failings of Legends story I don't think is because the concept was bad but more on GF's shoulder of just not knowing what story to tell. You would think with two former warring clans (a peace which is only a recent thing so tensions should still high between the two; and I mean that in a "your clan has killed members of my family" way and not the schoolyard squabbling the two leaders have with each other) who still have clashing beliefs would be enough to make a conflict out of. But no, for some reason at the end of the main game your boss goes crazy, blames you for all that's happening, most everyone turn on you for no reason, and you now have to figure out how to fix everything before they get themselves all killed (and possibly destroy the world). Like, if you didn't want to present the Galaxy Expedition Team as all good guys that's fine, there are ways to do that like misunderstanding the clans which only worsen their rivalry.

Also how much is that Legends just being the first game in its subseries so for fans expecting a typical Pokemon adventure would be taken aback to how it was setup? The game seemed to wanted to lean more on the catching side of the franchise than the battling, thus simplified the battling mechanics (which included no Abilities) while expanding on your catching capabilities. This is present in the Noble Battles where it's as much as you dodging around the Pokemon and finding moments to throw balms at it (and while you can battle the Noble, you can beat them without battling). And of course they could always improve the battling mechanics, add back in most Abilities, and have more Trainers to battle. They just wanted to do something very different, and now having done so, can take what they learn and improve the experience all around.

Now, I will agree not every gen needs a Legends game, BUT there are some which I wouldn't mind be interested in seeing. We can skip Gen I & II. I guess ORAS did add an interesting history with the Draconid people in III but I feel that just works as simple backstory so skip. Gen V I think could have an interesting Legends game as much about the old Unova kingdom and the two prince brothers is left up in the air; and I see plenty of room where they could potentially do some plot twists. Gen VI has the Kalos war but considering how that ends probably not something GF wants to follow-up on. Gen VII is an interesting case as they could expand the definition of what the "Legend" series is and have it focus on dimension jumping. Gen VIII is sort of like Gen III where there is past story but it's better as backstory, though it would clear up exactly WHAT happened in with the original Darkest Day. And finally Gen IX had a whole history class worth of potential Legends story.

I don't think I thought Legends was an outright bad game. I just think I'm more of a Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness kind of person when it comes to spinoffs - the battle system stays the same with a linear progression. Probably just a preference thing!
Wish they got someone to make another Colosseum, or at least Colosseum-like. Sadly part of the charm of Colosseum was that you could do Pokemon battling in 3D (as in using 3d models not 3d effectt)!... which meant when Pokemon switched to 3d in Gen VI killed the appeal of those games. Well, in theory, there was much more to games like Colosseum and even Battle Revolution than just having 3d battles, but question is does GF and the Pokemon Company see that.

2D-Octopath-like games even
If only.

Legends can exist as its own sub-series within the core series while traditional mainline games continue to exist, and I would also like to see them make even more sub-genres and experiment with genres of RPGs for mainline Pokemon than just the classic mainline.
Would like to see that too, but there may be one thing holding that back: GameFreak. GF seem determined to make it so only THEY can make mainline Pokemon games, but they're not big enough to make more than one at a time.

I don't know what the next games will bring, but "Linear 8 gyms into the E4 with the standard battle system" doesn't seem in the cards.
I say it all depends on the story they want to tell. Granted, a lot of these stories do feel they're partially made seeing ways they can re-structure a Pokemon League, but that doesn't mean we won't ever see the traditional formula of Gen I-VI ever again (though I think things like challenging the E4 in any order and maybe now challenging the Gyms in any order may be standard unless the story decides it wants to be linear like back in the old days). Let's see:

Alola: Island Challenge instead of Pokemon League. Reason for this is because the game IS the telling of the creation of Alola's Pokemon League. Thus young trainers went on a rite of passage stemmed from ancient traditions for their journey.

Galar: A Professional Pokemon League. This is very much them playing with the Pokemon League concept, treating it as if it was a major sport like Soccer. Each Type had a Gym with them all battling each year to determine which 8 is placed in the Major League for participating trainers (all who need to get a sponsor) to travel around too. And with the idea the Major League are the "best of the best", also makes sense that instead of an Elite Four to just have a part of the Champion tournament be where those Gym Leaders (and the participant trainer who defeated all the other trainers that got all the Badges) battle one another in a knock-out tournament where one of them could be the one to challenge and defeat the Champion.

Paldea: An academic venture. This one is partially story as I don't think you need to be part of the Academy to challenge the Paldea League. But, since the player is, the story treats it as something connected to the major class assignment "Treasure Hunt". It's the closest to go back to the 8 Gyms, 4 Elite Four, but with the twist the Gyms can TECHNICALLY be battled in any order (they they still have set levels so there is an order you can generally follow) and there's TWO Champions. I feel that latter point is more emphasized and what makes the Paldea League different; Champion in Paldea is just a title with the one who acts as the final boss of the League being called the "Top Champion", a position that's more a job and they seem to have it until they quit. Development wise I also feel this is GF trying to think where they can go with the Pokemon League concept after Galar (kind of hard to make a follow-up Champion after Leon, the Champion of Champions).

So, what story would Gen X think of (keeping in mind that it's Gen X, or rather Gen 10, the main series games finally hitting two digits in the number of core series titles). I wonder if GF would try to stall until 2028 to release it. This year and next will have SV's DLC, but they'll have three years to try and fill between then. Hmm...

Sorry, meant 2026, which now I guess is perfectly reasonable if they for ONCE took some years off to polish the game.
 
Last edited:

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Development wise I also feel this is GF trying to think where they can go with the Pokemon, what story would Gen X think of (keeping in mind that it's Gen X, or rather Gen 10, the main series games finally hitting two digits in the number of core series titles). I wonder if GF would try to stall until 2028 to release it. This year and next will have SV's DLC, but they'll have three years to try and fill between then. Hmm...
Why 2028 specifically?
 
I know he gets hate for being budget Hau, but honestly I liked Hop's story. Being the kid brother of the most famous Trainer in the region is hard, and putting that pressure on himself is so tough. I think what really hits home is when you realize that he's the only rival in the entire franchise (except for Blue's Raticate and we know how that goes, and N who specifically uses Pokemon he caught lying around) to drop a Pokemon from his team at any point in the story (though he brings them back later once he has his reckoning at Circhester), and they're the Pokemon that he started with in Wooloo and Corvisquire. Bede's insult hit deep and he's desperately willing to do anything to beat you and prove himself, including boxing his best friends.

I think what really drives home the point is the Max Raid battle with Eternatus. His Dubwool, for this battle specifically, has had Cotton Guard replaced with Take Down (though it will pretty much only ever use Double-Edge). He might not be the most skilled trainer, but by god he's going to have the heart of one.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
AKA the general problems with Mega Pokemon, especially those of "weaker" or "niche" Pokemon who weren't given OP stat increase, Type change or new Ability. Not to mention all Mega Pokemon (except Rayquaza) need to give up their Item slot further holding back the lower tier Mega Pokemon.

Saying all this, I wonder if Mega Pokemon ever came back it should be redone. It was their first attempt at a Super Mechanic, I don't think anyone would blame them for a redo. Obviously don't toss out the designs, but I would take to heart what worked with Super Mechanics after Mega. Like one thing I would suggest without getting into hypotheticals: Allowing any Pokemon on your team capable of Mega Evolving to do so without giving up the Item slot. Give that flexibility which Dynamax and now Terastal have.
I think it's kind of unfair to look at Mega Evolution in the same vein as the super mechanics that came afterwards, because while it may technically be a super mechanic from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, the design philosophy behind it is completely different from that of future super mechanics, in that it's an extremely specific and personalized transformation power-up whereas future super mechanics tried to be more general, especially Terastal which is a completely general and universal power-up transformation with absolutely no specific/special version of it assigned to any Pokemon.

Mega Evolution is more in line with say, cross gen evolutions or regional forms in that the Mega Evolution itself is functionally an entirely new and different Pokemon in its own right. It's an individualized set of stat boosts to the Pokemon who gets it and oftentimes the Pokemon changes its ability or in some cases type combination, effectively creating a functionally different Pokemon from the base form. In some cases it may very well just be the mon but stronger, but oftentimes the Mega Evolved version of a Pokemon often functions completely differently, and different Megas often occupied different niches. You had some Megas which were offensively oriented and basically hard hitters like Charizard Y, Gardevoir, and Medicham, but on the other hand you had plenty of more defensively oriented Megas like Aggron, Sableye, and Audino who were more enhanced walls/annoyers that played more on defensive utility. And then you had different Megas serving different purposes across the tiers.

In that sense it's quite different from the later super mechanics and shouldn't really be looked at in the same thought process. Megas are basically evolved forms of the mon they derive from in their own right and like any Pokemon, some are bound to be less good than others: such is the nature of individual Pokemon in general.

The only "general" mechanic thus far that has really been particularly flexible in how it can be used is Terastal since Terastal despite being on the far opposite end of Megas in that it's completely general and universal, is functionally from a gameplay standpoint an in-battle transformation like how Mega Evolution is, except it takes being a general transformation and fully commits to it, in that unlike Megas which were individual stat boosts and ability changes, Terastal is oftentimes a simple type change and/or type boost that is activated by the transformation and the mon itself is functionally the same barring the boost to type and oftentimes the change in type. That said, that aspect of Terastal is very much a part of Terastal's individuality as a mechanic and what makes Terastal, well, Terastal.

Likewise, Mega Evolution stands out on its own because its unique trait is being a specific/personalized transformation that involves unique stat boosts to individual Pokemon who get it and oftentimes a fundamental change in the Pokemon. It fully committed to being a specified mechanic for certain Pokemon only and went in on making the most of it in that regard.

Z-Moves and Dynamax were functionally as battle mechanics effective nuke buttons. While Dynamax/Gigantamax "technically" was a transformation, it was one that lasted three turns, and the whole thing was effectively boosted nuke moves that had universal secondary effects (admittedly making for a rather boringly overpowered mechanic that I have openly expressed my dislike for), or in the case of G-Max a specialized secondary effect of a G-Max Move, and Z-Moves were effectively a one-use nuke button in a battle, not an actual change in the mon.

A bit of a rant but I feel like homogenizing super mechanics to make them similar to each other basically robs them all of what makes them distinct from each other, so I don't think "redoing" Megas would be a good idea. I do feel different people would feel differently about each super mechanic depending on what they want from a super mechanic, but each mechanic inherently had a different design philosophy from the get go and not all of them were inherently intended as "super nukes". They're all functionally different from each other.

Like Mega Evolution are basically designed as honorary new Pokemon and are an in-battle transformation, Z-Moves are basically a widespread one-use nuke button, Dynamax is basically "nuke buttons that cause different battle effects for three turns", and Terastal is basically a generalized in-battle transformation that involves type change/type boost.

Mega Evolution was very much effective at what it was aiming to do, which was to be a personalized buff for specific Pokemon, and fully went in on that, being new designs that were an evolution of the base mon's design (thus having new designs to stand out to fans), being stat boosts, ability changes, and in some cases a type combo change to effectively create a fundamentally new Pokemon. But like all Pokemon, there's always going to be some that are more effective than others: that's just the nature of Megas being effectively new Pokemon in their own right, and they're subject to that same power scaling that all ordinary Pokemon are subject to, but just about all of them were improvements to the original Pokemon.

So in that sense it really isn't comparable to future mechanics which tried to be more generalized. But those future mechanics shine best because they're more generic. Terastal is a completely general transformation mechanic that is designed to be a generic transformation that any Pokemon can use, and that's its individuality and defining trait as a super mechanic. Z-Moves are a one-use nuke button, and that's all they are. Dynamax in my opinion was fundamentally flawed from its conception but it took being a "nuke button move" to the extreme, basically its entire use was nuke moves with secondary effects, either homogenized universal ones or specific secondary effects for G-Max.

Really the main thing when we see a game with Megas again (ie Kalos or Hoenn revisit) wouldn't be to "redo" them but to simply expand on their use, perhaps by just having more mons that can Mega Evolve and getting more creative with the changes and stat boosts they do to future Megas whenever they revisit it. It's not meant to be a generic power-up and shouldn't try to be generic in any way, because the future mechanics work as general mechanics since they were designed as such from the onset but Megas aren't designed as such. If I wanted a generic power-up, I would just have Terastal or Z-Moves for that since that's their job as super mechanics.

Different super mechanics are different from each other, and that's how it should be if they want to keep making different ones.
 
what do we think the average word count on a ScraftyIsTheBest post is

On the topic of Mega Evolution, it's not quite an unpopular opinion, but my unpopular... perspective(?) is that I never wanted my favourite Pokemon to get Mega Evolutions, even back in the heyday of the mechanic. The weaknesses of a Pokemon are part of the whole package of why I like it, so I don't really want some massive buff for them, nor do I want a lateral move that just adds item/mechanical bloat as a core part of their identity moving forward. The one-and-done nature of Megas also made me super apprehensive about the prospect: there's nothing anyone can do if you don't like the design or feel like the Mega's concept is too far from what you liked about the original. This is especially problematic if the Mega is strong enough to catapult the Pokemon into viability and/or popularity, overshadowing the original entirely.

Of course, this is true of regular evolutions too, but the design philosophy of Megas often makes them more extreme in appearance and therefore more polarising. Additionally, some of the dex entries for Megas point to an increased, unsustainable level of aggression, inconvenience, and sometimes pain brought about by the power boost. They're no longer animals with a relationship to their surrounding ecosystem, but instead something scarier and almost artificial. That's not really the vibe I'm after for my favourite Pokemon!
 
what do we think the average word count on a ScraftyIsTheBest post is

On the topic of Mega Evolution, it's not quite an unpopular opinion, but my unpopular... perspective(?) is that I never wanted my favourite Pokemon to get Mega Evolutions, even back in the heyday of the mechanic. The weaknesses of a Pokemon are part of the whole package of why I like it, so I don't really want some massive buff for them, nor do I want a lateral move that just adds item/mechanical bloat as a core part of their identity moving forward. The one-and-done nature of Megas also made me super apprehensive about the prospect: there's nothing anyone can do if you don't like the design or feel like the Mega's concept is too far from what you liked about the original. This is especially problematic if the Mega is strong enough to catapult the Pokemon into viability and/or popularity, overshadowing the original entirely.
This was definitely part of the inspiration for my Beedrill solo XY challenge (apart from having limited options for 3DS challenges due to only having one game and system, hah). The Mega was the only thing that made it relevant and I wanted to see if I could make it work without it.
 
I remember back in the optimistic days of early SwSh speculation thinking about how to allocate the potential possibilities for a particular mon:
  • Megas were the preferred option for most fully evolved mons, since they offered the possibility of bringing in a new concept in addition to enhancing an existing one
  • Z-moves are preferred in the case of a mon with an identity-defining Status move. It doesn't even need to be technically a signature item since it can simply apply to the main move instead.
  • GMax would mostly be reserved for mons with item-tied identities (which would include many NFEs due to Eviolite), possibly branching out into other mons with complete concepts and a singular effect for a damaging move (Dhelmise was my prime example for this group)
At some level, I'm concerned that GF believes they are beyond the requirement of giving significant new stuff to most old mons. Instead of doing further design work for your existing favourite to get you to play a new game, they can just hope that said favourite's mere existence will entice you now that it's no longer guaranteed for the next game. At times, Tera feels like it's a crutch for being unable to access mons that are similar in playstyle but differently typed.
 
I can't imagine deciding whether to play a new game based on whether my favourite Pokemon got buffs haha, but I enjoy this idea that your favourites need to get stronger to keep your interest, if only because it buries Karen's stupid monologue for good.

Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
 
I can't imagine deciding whether to play a new game based on whether my favourite Pokemon got buffs haha, but I enjoy this idea that your favourites need to get stronger to keep your interest, if only because it buries Karen's stupid monologue for good.

Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
And then there's the majority, people like me who don't care at all and play Pokemon games just cause they like pokemon, and the presence or not of their favourite does not influence if they will play the game or not, and do not think there is any lazyness on GF part, in fact there is just workplace abuse and refusal to hire more (or more competent) people
 
And then there's the majority, people like me who don't care at all and play Pokemon games just cause they like pokemon, and the presence or not of their favourite does not influence if they will play the game or not, and do not think there is any lazyness on GF part, in fact there is just workplace abuse and refusal to hire more (or more competent) people
I'm right there with you! Most of my favs were dexited in Gen 8 and it had zero impact on my decision to pick up Shield. Also I should have clarified that by 'most people' I meant 'most people who are heavily invested in this discourse' which naturally excludes the sensible people who don't get so worked up about all this haha.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I can't imagine deciding whether to play a new game based on whether my favourite Pokemon got buffs haha, but I enjoy this idea that your favourites need to get stronger to keep your interest, if only because it buries Karen's stupid monologue for good.

Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
How dare you. Karen’s speech is amazing and always will be.

- Dexit is not a big deal.
- Attack removal is a sin however.
- Gen 2 good
- Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
-Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
- Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
F3C9C8E4-8F70-492C-B7C6-09C89E64FBB8.gif
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 12)

Top