Unpopular Opinions: Scarlet & Violet Edition

[bdt2002]

For Regional Forms and Regional Evolutions, that’s understandable. Several more regional forms wouldn’t hurt anyone.

Thought I'd voice my opinion on what I think Game Freak's mindset was going into this. From their perspective, the Paradox Pokémon must have felt like a sort of "replacement" of more traditional regional variants that also happens to fit better with the whole past and future theme of this game. I get that with the existence of Paldean Wooper, Clodsire, and Paldean Tauros, this argument only has so much to back it up, but at the end of the day can't one still make the argument that, say, Iron Bundle for example is really just "Paldean Delibird" with a fresh Metal Coat of paint?

Also, just in case this comes up, Brute Bonnet could still be a Paldean Amoonguss even though the base variant can still show up in Paldea. I view these instances in a similar manner to how you can get a Kantonian Raichu or Marowak in the Alola games if you evolve a Pikachu or Cubone in Ultra Space respectively. (Exeggcute also works for this, but unlike the other two I can't actually remember where to find a wild Exeggcute in the Alola games off the top of my head.)

 

[Samtendo09]

Thought I'd voice my opinion on what I think Game Freak's mindset was going into this. From their perspective, the Paradox Pokémon must have felt like a sort of "replacement" of more traditional regional variants that also happens to fit better with the whole past and future theme of this game. I get that with the existence of Paldean Wooper, Clodsire, and Paldean Tauros, this argument only has so much to back it up, but at the end of the day can't one still make the argument that, say, Iron Bundle for example is really just "Paldean Delibird" with a fresh Metal Coat of paint?

Also, just in case this comes up, Brute Bonnet could still be a Paldean Amoonguss even though the base variant can still show up in Paldea. I view these instances in a similar manner to how you can get a Kantonian Raichu or Marowak in the Alola games if you evolve a Pikachu or Cubone in Ultra Space respectively. (Exeggcute also works for this, but unlike the other two I can't actually remember where to find a wild Exeggcute in the Alola games off the top of my head.)

One major difference to point out is the BST of the Paradox Pokémon, often 570 BST and, in the case of Roaring Moon and Iron Valiant, 590 BST. I can see where are you getting at with them being essentially Paldean variants in all but name and BST.

I wonder if there are more Paradox Pokémon planned for DLC in addition to the Imaginated ones (Scarlet Suicune and Violet Virizion).

 

[Hyper Cutter]

(Exeggcute also works for this, but unlike the other two I can't actually remember where to find a wild Exeggcute in the Alola games off the top of my head.)

The answer is, unsurprisingly, Exeggutor Island (also some other parts of Poni Island, but only in the original Sun/Moon)

 

[bdt2002]

The answer is, unsurprisingly, Exeggutor Island (also some other parts of Poni Island, but only in the original Sun/Moon)

I had a feeling this was the case, but not only has it been so long since I’ve played an Alola game for reals, but I was also thinking about Exeggutor Island being a late-game location, as such meaning the wild Pokémon would more likely be evolved.

 

[LPBvgc]

I wanted Sprigatito to stand on both legs when it evolves from the start just to tick others off.

 

[pika pal]

I wanted Sprigatito to stand on both legs when it evolves from the start just to tick others off.

See the part that bothers me is going Quadruped to Bipedal. If Sprigatito had stood one 2 legs from the outset I don't think nearly as many people would give a shit.

 

[Coronis]

Meh people still whinging about bipedal/quadrupedal stuff annoys me. Its been a thing amongst starters since Gen 2 (excluding Gen 4) and it happens in other evo lines and people don’t give a crap.

 

[Hugin]

Meh people still whinging about bipedal/quadrupedal stuff annoys me. Its been a thing amongst starters since Gen 2 (excluding Gen 4) and it happens in other evo lines and people don’t give a crap.

It's more about bipedal=humanoid.
Gen I: All starters keep the same stance, all remain similarly bestial.
Gen II: Cyndaquil maybe shifts stance, all remain similarly bestial.
Gen III: Mudkip maybe shifts stance, Blaziken becomes more humanoid.
Gen IV: Chimchar maybe shifts stance, all remain similarly bestial.
Gen V: Serperior loses limbs, Samurott becomes quadripedal, Emboar becomes bipedal. Emboar becomes more humanoid, Samurott becomes more bestial.
*this is where the problem starts*
Gen VI: Delphox becomes bipedal. Delphox becomes more humanoid.
Gen VII: Incineroar becomes bipedal. All 3 become more humanoid.
Gen VIII: Inteleon becomes bipedal. All 3 become more humanoid.
Gen IX: Meoscarada becomes bipedal. Meoscarada becomes more humanoid.

Now, this is obviously subjective. But there was a shift around Gen VI to having the starters be more humanoid, have more distinct personalities built in, and be bipedal. People who object to one part of that are possibly objecting to all of it, just not being specific.

Humorously, I don't object to bipedal, but I do very specifically object to humanoid. Fenniken and Sprigatito are adorable and their evos are awful.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Fenniken and Sprigatito are adorable and their evos are awful.

I actually quite like Floragato. It looks cool, and its coolness is enhanced by a rose broach that doubles as a yo-yo.

Meowscarada has fucky eyes and a strut. I do not like it.

 

[A_Wild_Noob_Appeared!]

But there was a shift around Gen VI to having the starters be more humanoid, have more distinct personalities built in, and be bipedal. People who object to one part of that are possibly objecting to all of it, just not being specific.

100% agree with this. The humanoid proportions, poses, and distinctive personality traits make them feel too much like people instead of just intelligent animals. Even Pokemon that are abstractly based on humans in the past have not had as many distinctly human psychological traits (i.e. a Conkeldurr or Gothitelle does not feel like a person as much as Meowscarada). Cinderace is just straight up a guy in a soccer uniform. Meowscarada could easily be some spellcaster character in another work of fiction. It feels like these Pokemon are trying to more like individual characters than a species, which I don't like.

It's not even just starters either, there's also Tinkaton, Palafin, and Maushold which do this. Even Mimikyu, a Pokemon I like, does this - it's basically designed as "the character you're supposed to feel sorry for" (though it doesn't seem as human as the others due to design and having "personality" traits which are less specifically human). There's more cases of this, these are just the best examples off the top of my head (I'd argue that Charcadet and Salazzle fall under this, but I decided to focus on clearer points first).

Cynically, I feel like this trend is part of larger trends in marketing. There are a number of Pokemon seemingly designed to replicate the success of previously popular Pokemon (Cinderace taking traits from Incineroar and Greninja, Fidough playing a similar marketing role to Yamper). The influx of "storytelling" Pokemon which act more human seems like an attempt to replicate the "specialness" of Legendary/Mythical Pokemon (many of which also take more of a storytelling role and may actually specific individuals rather than an entire species), particularly the movie Mythicals. It doesn't seem like a coincidence given the increasing legendary spam over the generations.

 

[Coronis]

100% agree with this. The humanoid proportions, poses, and distinctive personality traits make them feel too much like people instead of just intelligent animals. Even Pokemon that are abstractly based on humans in the past have not had as many distinctly human psychological traits (i.e. a Conkeldurr or Gothitelle does not feel like a person as much as Meowscarada). Cinderace is just straight up a guy in a soccer uniform. Meowscarada could easily be some spellcaster character in another work of fiction. It feels like these Pokemon are trying to more like individual characters than a species, which I don't like.

It's not even just starters either, there's also Tinkaton, Palafin, and Maushold which do this. Even Mimikyu, a Pokemon I like, does this - it's basically designed as "the character you're supposed to feel sorry for" (though it doesn't seem as human as the others due to design and having "personality" traits which are less specifically human). There's more cases of this, these are just the best examples off the top of my head (I'd argue that Charcadet and Salazzle fall under this, but I decided to focus on clearer points first).

Cynically, I feel like this trend is part of larger trends in marketing. There are a number of Pokemon seemingly designed to replicate the success of previously popular Pokemon (Cinderace taking traits from Incineroar and Greninja, Fidough playing a similar marketing role to Yamper). The influx of "storytelling" Pokemon which act more human seems like an attempt to replicate the "specialness" of Legendary/Mythical Pokemon (many of which also take more of a storytelling role and may actually specific individuals rather than an entire species), particularly the movie Mythicals. It doesn't seem like a coincidence given the increasing legendary spam over the generations.

Incineroar was popular? Yuck.

 

[Lectrys]

100% agree with this. The humanoid proportions, poses, and distinctive personality traits make them feel too much like people instead of just intelligent animals. Even Pokemon that are abstractly based on humans in the past have not had as many distinctly human psychological traits (i.e. a Conkeldurr or Gothitelle does not feel like a person as much as Meowscarada). Cinderace is just straight up a guy in a soccer uniform. Meowscarada could easily be some spellcaster character in another work of fiction. It feels like these Pokemon are trying to more like individual characters than a species, which I don't like.

It's not even just starters either, there's also Tinkaton, Palafin, and Maushold which do this. Even Mimikyu, a Pokemon I like, does this - it's basically designed as "the character you're supposed to feel sorry for" (though it doesn't seem as human as the others due to design and having "personality" traits which are less specifically human). There's more cases of this, these are just the best examples off the top of my head (I'd argue that Charcadet and Salazzle fall under this, but I decided to focus on clearer points first).

Cynically, I feel like this trend is part of larger trends in marketing. There are a number of Pokemon seemingly designed to replicate the success of previously popular Pokemon (Cinderace taking traits from Incineroar and Greninja, Fidough playing a similar marketing role to Yamper). The influx of "storytelling" Pokemon which act more human seems like an attempt to replicate the "specialness" of Legendary/Mythical Pokemon (many of which also take more of a storytelling role and may actually specific individuals rather than an entire species), particularly the movie Mythicals. It doesn't seem like a coincidence given the increasing legendary spam over the generations.

Based on the sharp contrast between (admittedly not-perfect coverage) Japanese and North American Pokemon popularity polls (see https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/what-are-the-faces-of-gen-9.3715228/post-9509079 for the only Japanese poll and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/what-are-the-faces-of-gen-9.3715228/post-9509167 for the only North American poll I've been able to find for Gen 9 so far) and the Japanese poll results' pronounced favouritism towards Meowscarada while Meowscarada (arguably deservedly) doesn't show up on the American poll results at all (outside of its signature move), I'm wondering if Game Freak is making more humanoid Pokemon that are more human-like in behaviour precisely because their Japanese audience unironically likes them and still wants more of them (unlike American fatigue).

As for another example of "more human-like behaviour" along the lines of "I wanna become a knight when I grow up!!" Charcadet, I think Gholdengo is actually another good example of this that we players picked up on en masse. Explicitly based on surfers (see its Japanese copyrighted name Surfugo, its surfboard generation in-game, its dreadlocks, and one of its Pokedex entries mentioning that it is "quick to make friends with anybody" for further information), closer to human-looking than its pre-evolution Gimmighoul, flavour surrounding it emphasizing that it is friendly to and gets along well with others...I really do not think it's coincidence that one of Gholdengo's most popular nicknames is "Golden Joe". (Admittedly, its pre-evolution Gimmighoul's primary personality traits probably being aggressively wanting all your gold coins and then some, including whenever Gimmighoul-Roaming falls under the protection of a trainer, then draining life force from whoever tries to separate it from its gold do thankfully detract from the evolutionary line getting too close to human. There is a more than slight implication given the games' description of Gholdengo's Good as Gold ability that Gimmighoul cunningly values gold for its great physical and chemical properties instead of greedily wanting gold because it is valuable, though....)

 

[DreamPrince]

Incineroar was popular? Yuck.

In VGC definitely was.

 

[R_N]

Incineroar was popular? Yuck.

people love buff humanoid tigers, yes

 

[RocketSurgery]

Personally I ended up liking Meowscarada the best out of the three fully evolved forms. I agree it might have been a nice design if Meowscarada had more or less kept its look but was quadrupedal, looking a bit more like a Sphinx or something, I don't mind that it stands.

While I appreciate that Quaxquaval wasn't just water Blaziken, I think the chicken bottom + humanoid top ends up looking worse than pure humanoid.

For Skeledirge, I just cannot get over how its white head and mouth fire makes it look like a balding clown. It really ruins the design for me. Not a 'clowns are scary thing,' I just think it looks super ugly.

 

[Worldie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the whole "starters all eventually become humanoid-ish" a trend because it makes them more humanlike (duh) thus easier to get attached to for the kids, thus in turn, making mechandise selling easier?

 

[R_N]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the whole "starters all eventually become humanoid-ish" a trend because it makes them more humanlike (duh) thus easier to get attached to for the kids, thus in turn, making mechandise selling easier?

I feel like this is something I've heard a bunch but never had an interview attached to it.

 

[Magcargo]

Meowscarada is fine as is and I don't want its design to be changed. Definitely my favorite of the 3 starters since it was first revealed and think its a marketed improvement over Delphox and Incineroar. It really nails the trickster theme its going for gameplay-wise too, learning all the sneaky moves like U-Turn, Knock Off, and Trick by level up. Also feels a bit more fun to use than in-game compared Cinderace despite its comparatively worse statline due to learning more physical moves by level up & egg move transfering letting it get its good egg moves easily. My one complaint about it is that its hidden ability is by far the worst of the three. Protean only has use of Choice sets, which is fine, but a bit limiting. Losing its amazing STAB combo on other sets makes it feel like a liability, especially since its STAB combo is all it needs most of the time. I wish its signature ability was something more practically useful, like Hustle, Sniper, or Magic Guard.

Violet Paradoxes are cool. I like their chrome textures, esp on the shiny forms. and the futuristic neon energy lights most of them have are a nice touch too. The only thing I dislike about them are some gameplay related things, i.e movepool oddities like Iron Jugulis not getting Nasty Plot.

 

[Coronis]

people love buff humanoid tigers, yes

Yuck. I hate both Incineroar and Primarina. Too similar to Emboar for one, and shoved down my throat for Smash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the whole "starters all eventually become humanoid-ish" a trend because it makes them more humanlike (duh) thus easier to get attached to for the kids, thus in turn, making mechandise selling easier?

Sounds about right.

 

[Lectrys]

So I watched my nephew play Pokemon Violet for the second straight Sunday this evening. Day 1 actually wasn't too bad. Today convinced me that Pokemon Violet's open-world implementation was even worse than I feared: I got nausea and motion sickness about 1.5 hours in, even though I looked away from the TV about every 5 minutes and I was always behind the sofa. Game Freak has my sister's money, but it won't have mine until they stop making open-world games. I remain convinced that Game Freak is losing a noticeable amount of their otherwise paying audience making nausea-inducing open-world games.

On another note, the worst part of the Pokemon Violet viewing experience tonight wasn't the jerky legs and walking, and it wasn't the disappearing Miraidon or Pokeball thrower. It wasn't even the lag after my nephew plunges Miraidon into a water area yet again before it learns how to swim. It was the camera occasionally dropping to the ground and zooming in on the player character and pointing skyward. This leads to some less-than-intuitive experiences trying to control the player character (at least IMO) and probably helped make me motion sick watching Pokemon Violet on-and-off tonight.

 

[Coronis]

I remain convinced that Game Freak is losing a noticeable amount of their otherwise paying audience making nausea-inducing open-world games.

It was the camera occasionally dropping to the ground and zooming in on the player character and pointing skyward.

I personally haven’t had this issue in ~120 hours, or haven’t noticed it. I doubt GF is losing much either since I haven’t seen this mentioned at all anywhere else, and a huge portion of sales come prior to any reviews being posted.

 

[Lectrys]

I personally haven’t had this issue in ~120 hours, or haven’t noticed it. I doubt GF is losing much either since I haven’t seen this mentioned at all anywhere else, and a huge portion of sales come prior to any reviews being posted.

I suspect I'm one of the unlucky <5% who get dizzy and motion sick playing or watching certain video games, but even that percentage has to be a noticeable audience.

As for the camera issue, my nephew triggered that multiple times tonight and a week ago each. I only noticed the disappearing Miraidon and the disappearing Pokeball-throwing trainer (whose Pokeball amusingly did not disappear) tonight and once each.

 

[Ironmage]

There are other reasons to dislike open-world games besides nausea. In my case, interest in exploring 90% of the environment is not enough to be worth the tradeoffs made to the difficulty curve and the other 10% of the environment is the only area that's closed off. Though unfortunately for both of us, it probably isn't a net loss for GF even though it is a loss.

 

[Worldie]

I would point that, not specifically linked to your issue with visual sickness, when a franchise does a change in direction (in this case, moving from linear to open world), it's guaranteed that a certain chunk of the playerbase may get discouraged or stop playing/buying altogether due to not liking the new system.

What the companies usually bank on is that the new players you will attract will outweight the ones you lose.

Ultimately expecially in modern era, you can't please everyone.

 

[Samtendo09]

[…] Even Mimikyu, a Pokemon I like, does this - it's basically designed as "the character you're supposed to feel sorry for" (though it doesn't seem as human as the others due to design and having "personality" traits which are less specifically human)

The Sun + Moon anime series does have a Mimikyu who’s rotten-to-the-core that resent the Pikachu species’ popularity, which is noted as a large contrast to other members of it’s species. GF should not make the species feeling one-note in terms of potential personality between each species, otherwise it makes them too rigid for fanmade contents by making fans complacent about the species so-called behaviors.

Meanwhile, I’m having mixed feelings about this generation’s power creep.

One one hand, GF really took one step forward, two step backward considering an attempt of rebalancing Zacian (Zamazenta’s nerf isn’t so bad since it did get Body Press + wouldn’t care about Intimidate as much as the sword counterpart would), making sure Terastalization isn’t overwhelming like Dynamax and succeeded for the most part, and making Protean a lot less oppressive, but then we have even more overpowered moves and Pokémon within a single generation, to the point where plenty of Paldea-introduced non-Legendary Pokémon got either quickbanned or suspect banned within few months after Scarlet + Violet release, making their balancing act not sincere at all.

But on the other hand, barring a few stinkers, they did succeeded at making many of the newcomers useful for in-game and competitive, so it’s nice to see many new faces in Singles OU and Doubles OU, as well as VGC. It helps that most signature move and / or Ability were actually useful and gel well with the Pokémon’s toolkit, even it ended up working too well in a few cases.

Truth is, the power creep in earlier generations aren’t that bad, and it were the Pseudo-Legends, Legendary, Mythical and other restricted Pokémon to put the blame for it, since those from later generations were oftentimes blatantly better than what came before. While Gen 5 and, when considering Mega Evolution, Gen 6, were arguable exceptions, it wasn’t until Generation 9 that things went into an overdrive. Though Gen 8 can be considered as a harbringer.