Turnmons

[Xmas121]

(approved by The Immortal + Eveee General)

yay my first metagame

EDIT: Now playable on Aqua Server thanks to Enerdy!
Hello everybody! Today I am here to introduce the new metagame: Turnmons! Now, to explain this metagame I must allow my alter-ego colleague Admiral Offense to explain the concept in true military fashion!

Now listen up Soldiers, there is no easy way to approach this: for much of this battle you will be retreating and building the defenses. In fact, for the 1st, 3rd 5th and so set of 5 turns, you will not be allowed to fire on the filthy Communists at all! There will be NO attacking whatsoever! But instead...

Man the fort! Place Booby traps (Entry Hazards) build walls (Dual Screens) Trick, Torment and Taunt the enemy into weakening! Boost up you stats until they reach godly levels before wreaking havoc on the enemy on turn 6!

Now we get to the crux of the metagame. For the 1st 5 turns, as I have said, only non-attacking moves can be used. But on turn 6, it is the opposite! All efforts will be concentrated on destroying the enemy! No puny 'Growls' or 'Taunts' shall be allowed to be uttered. Instead, we will unleash Earthquakes and Whirlpools upon the enemy! KILL ALL TH-

Whoa ok sorry Admiral Offense got a little bit excited there. What he was trying to say was that for turns 1-5, you can't attack. For turns 6-10, you can't defend. 11-15 you can't attack and so on. This adds extra confusion to the mix as you realise:

Q&A

But what happens if my Pokemon has no attacking/defending moves?

It is simply not allowed into battle!

What happens if my Pokemon runs out of PP on my non-damaging turns?

It uses a damage-less version of Struggle; it only hurts the user.

What about Taunt? Isn't that meta-breaking?
If this meta gets accepted all possible bans wil be tested.
Taunt is banned.

What about Nature Power + Metronome + Sleep Talk + Mimic + Copycat + MirrorCoat?
Nature Power is classified as an attacking move, on defending turns Metronome can only draw defending moves and vice versa with the attacking turns, Sleep Talk can only draw defending moves on defending turns and attacking ones on attacking turns (doesn't count as either an attacking or defending move), Mimic/Copycat/Clones count as defending moves(that should deal with it right?) and finally MirrorCoat/Clones have negative priority and count as an attacking move.

Current Banlist (Can change):
OU bans and clauses
Sleep
OHKO
Evasion
Species
Swagger
Taunt
Complex Ban Klutz + AV + Trick/Switcheroo

Possible Suspects:
Sableye (Mega and Normal)
Magic Bounce
Prankster
Curse
Perish Song

I know that it's probably too early to begin discussing bans, but those are just a few that I could thing of off the top of my head. Please feel free to post sets that you think could be good, or Pokemon that you think will stand out!

Thank you very much kind sirs and siresses.

Sets

Boost + Attack Sets

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Evs: 252atk 252spe Adamant
- Shell-Smash
- Substitute
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump / Rock Blast / Protect

Status Spreader Sets

CurseTre: Treveant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
- Curse
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Filler Attack

Cripple Sets

CripplEye: Sableye @ Choice Scarf/Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Def
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick/Substitute
- Confuse Ray/Spite
- Punishment/Knock Off

Extra Messages

If possible are there any server owners willing to take this on? Can it be coded? Is there anyone in the future who could design a banner :p

 

[Xmas121]

Reserved (i cant believe im finally doing this :0)

 

[DinaIsha]

Shell Smash, Shell Smash everywhere. Eh.. On the defensive side, Curse + Toxic can be used more freely. In fact, I'm predicting Curse to be very centralizing, as it can kill almost anything before it even gets to Turn 6.

Treveant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
- Curse
- Toxic
- Block
- Phantom Force

Also, kudos on your first Meta!

 

[Xmas121]

Shell Smash, Shell Smash everywhere. Eh.. On the defensive side, Curse + Toxic can be used more freely. In fact, I'm predicting Curse to be very centralizing, as it can kill almost anything before it even gets to Turn 6.

Treveant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef

- Curse
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Filler Attack

Also, kudos on your first Meta!

Thanks! Also I didn't think about Curse... seems OP. I'll add to possible suspects. What about Perish Song?

My own set:
Sableye @ Choice Scarf/Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
Evs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Def

- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick/Substitute
- Confuse Ray/Spite
- Punishment/Knock Off

There are 2 roads this set can go: First off you can Trick the Scarf onto the opponent, who is then stuck into a support move, WoW to cripple and then either Confuse Ray to force switches or even Spite to do the same. On turn 6 it fulfills a different role: Punishing unsuspected 'Mons that are all boosted up fresh from a pass. (it does 60bp + 20 for each of the opponents stat boosts.) If you go with the 2nd idea you Mega turn 1 or 2, Sub/Wow and then repeat either Confuse Ray or Spite while all your opponents status just bounces off! When an offensive threat comes in on turn 6 you Knock Off, removing their item, lose the Sub and then switch out the next turn to something more offensive!

I agree, SS will be everywhere.

 

[MAMP]

This is a really interesting meta, I'm looking forward to seeing how this will turn out. I think Baton Pass could be a very effective strategy in this meta, boost up in the first 5 turns, then wreck shop on turn 6. Btw, why can't you have more than two Pokemon with the same ability?

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Hoo boy. I expect at least SR on both sides and a sub for both players since they have 5 turns to act. SR + switching is 2 turns, so that still leads 3 turns to set up, and if one of the turns is for setting up a sub, then that's 2 full turns of set up. Example sets:

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Evs: 252atk 252spe Adamant
- Shell-Smash
- Substitute
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump / Rock Blast / Protect

Cloyster can shell smash then hide behind a sub to prevent being ruined by priority while Icicle Spear breaks sashes and sturdy.

Linoone @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Evs: 252atk 252spe Adamant
- Belly Drum
- Extremespeed
- Substitute / Protect
- Seed Bomb / Shadow Claw

If there's one pokemon that can sweep after boosts, it's Linoone. STAB +6 espeed means no worries about +1 priority, and Protect blocks fake out while Sub protects from other attacks or status. The last move is for coverage.

Defensively, we have:

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Evs: 252hp 252def bold
- Calm mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Defensive boosting pokemon (with armor or suction cups) can be very scary as well.

 

[Yayz]

Defensively, we have:

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Evs: 252hp 252def bold
- Calm mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This set makes me realize that Sleep Talk classifies as a "defensive" move, so using it could possibly be a way around the five-turn "truce". I don't think it's too OP considering you're at least a third likely to do nothing of use, but it's certainly an idea.

 

[Xmas121]

This is a really interesting meta, I'm looking forward to seeing how this will turn out. I think Baton Pass could be a very effective strategy in this meta, boost up in the first 5 turns, then wreck shop on turn 6. Btw, why can't you have more than two Pokemon with the same ability?

It was just a first idea, because at first glance I thought Prankster/Magic bounce spam would be OP. I'll change it to suspects now that I've thought about it a bit more.

Hoo boy. I expect at least SR on both sides and a sub for both players since they have 5 turns to act. SR + switching is 2 turns, so that still leads 3 turns to set up, and if one of the turns is for setting up a sub, then that's 2 full turns of set up. Example sets:

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Evs: 252atk 252spe Adamant
- Shell-Smash
- Substitute
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump / Rock Blast / Protect

Cloyster can shell smash then hide behind a sub to prevent being ruined by priority while Icicle Spear breaks sashes and sturdy.

Linoone @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Evs: 252atk 252spe Adamant
- Belly Drum
- Extremespeed
- Substitute / Protect
- Seed Bomb / Shadow Claw

If there's one pokemon that can sweep after boosts, it's Linoone. STAB +6 espeed means no worries about +1 priority, and Protect blocks fake out while Sub protects from other attacks or status. The last move is for coverage.

Defensively, we have:

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Evs: 252hp 252def bold
- Calm mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Defensive boosting pokemon (with armor or suction cups) can be very scary as well.

I'll put these sets up in the morning, when I'm not half-asleep. I'll address Sleep Talk to (should I count it as a defensive move or attacking?)

I like how this thread has been up for ~ an hour and already there are 8 posts :p

Night!

 

[Jajoken]

This needs some sort of complex ban:

Swoobat @ Assault Vest
Ability: Klutz
- Trick
- ???
- ???
- ???

Lopunny @ Assault Vest
Ability: Klutz
- Switcheroo
- ???
- ???
- ???

You could alternatively just ban Klutz, as it shuts down this strategy with little collateral damage -- it's only real use outside of this is to counter Trick-Scarf sets. Though that may be a useful niche in this meta.

 

[DinaIsha]

Another move to note would be Haze. Poison/Seed/Burn the opponent firsthand. Haze on the 5th Turn. Despite all the Offensive opportunities, I think Stall might be great here.

Also, if Taunt is banned, so should Trick/Switcheroo.

 

[Snaquaza]

I tested this format in a battle with Moniker . I used a Grassy Terrain Nature Power Exeggutor again and damn, it worked well.
Basically you are free to set up Grassy Terrain and Nature Power during the first five turns, allowing you to pass the defending thing, and attack the opponent when they aren't prepared as they can't do anything back. In out battle it went up against a Scolipede, which was 4HKO'd. So it managed to KO something during the defending period, which is quite good. Especially as Scolipede is a 4x resist. (It actually 3HKO'd, but that was because a sp def lower.) You have two other slots, but to be honest you aren't going to use Exeggutor out of the defense turns as it's outclassed there, but it has a nice opportunity during defense turns to kill stuff! You can run Sunny Day as well if you use Chlorophyll, but I didn't and just ran Psychic and Leaf Storm for if it ended up outside of the defending turns.

An assist team with Victini and Spinda and Infernape to call Assist sounds fun to, just make sure to have an attacking move that can't be called by Assist. (Though Superpower is fine too on Spinda, Infernape gets STAB anyway)

 

[Jajoken]

Also, if Taunt is banned, so should Trick/Switcheroo.

If a complex ban isn't too much to ask for, I think a Trick/Switcheroo + Choice Item/Assault Vest ban is the best route. Since Knock Off isn't allowed on the first 5 turns, Trick and Switcheroo are the only defensive methods of removing a foe's item. Tricking a Toxic Orb or Iron Ball has a pretty decent niche, I feel, and isn't really broken at all. Trick-Scarf and AV-Klutz strats are a bit overpowering, however.

 

[Xmas121]

OK, now that I'm awake it's time for our first vote:

• Ban Trick + Choice Item
• Complex Ban Klutz + AV + Trick/Switcheroo

Another thing that should probably be brought up is Nature Power, as Snaquaza said - it is one of few moves that violates the the main concept of the metagame.

EDIT: Now that I've thought about I'm going to go ahead and Complex Ban Klutz + AV + Trick/Switcheroo. It has no roles outside of crippling the opponent, and is way too OP. I'm keeping Klutz + Switcheroo/Trick, because that has valid strategies (Iron Ball, Toxic Orb as Jayjoken said).

EDIT #2:

Also treat Nature Power as an attacking move, not a Status move, simple enough. Unless I'm mistaken it can only call attacking moves on the sim anyways. Metronome can also be modified to only call status moves on non-damaging turns and damaging moves on damaging turns, etc.

I didn't realise that nature power could only call attacking moves *researched* turns out that's true. OK, Nature Power can only be used on Attacking turns. Maybe next time I'll try out a ban Trick + Choice + Trapping (move or ability).

 

[Snaquaza]

I'd honestly ban vote for both of them. They go against the point of the metagame as they prevent you from doing what you're supposed to do, which is not fun. I don't really like move-restricting stuff here anyway as it prevents you from playing the metagame as it should be.

I don't think Nature Power should be banned as it's still not great (it doesn't really have too many users that can use it viably and they all require some setup time) and it adds a fun, but gimmicky factor to defending turns.

That said, I really enjoyed this metagame in the two matches I played! It makes quite some gimmicks viable as you can abuse the turns you can move or not, so some things can abuse that as they have a special movepool or ability.

BTW Trick Scard Gothitelle is OP and the best argument to ban Trick + Choice Item. Especially if it carries like Torment for if it's locked into Status anyway. (Which is likely as you can only trick on status turns)

Might add more later

 

[Pikachuun]

OK, now that I'm awake it's time for our first vote:

• Ban Trick + Choice Item
• Complex Ban Klutz + AV + Trick/Switcheroo

Another thing that should probably be brought up is Nature Power, as Snaquaza said - it is one of few moves that violates the the main concept of the metagame.

Trick + Choice Item is meh, as you can play around it. All it really does is forces you to switch during the opposite turns. Then again Gothitelle exists, but it can't trick except on those non-damaging turns. As for Klutz + Trick, complex banning it is a bad way to go about this. Seriously, only Buneary, Lopunny, Swoobat, and Woobat have this combination, and for what? Giving you a special defense buff during your attacking turns? Once again, it can be played around. Trapping will make this a bit on the annoying side, though. I'll abstain from this voting.

Also treat Nature Power as an attacking move, not a Status move, simple enough. Unless I'm mistaken it can only call attacking moves on the sim anyways. Metronome can also be modified to only call status moves on non-damaging turns and damaging moves on damaging turns, etc.

 

[Jajoken]

As for Klutz + Trick, complex banning it is a bad way to go about this. Seriously, only Buneary, Lopunny, Swoobat, and Woobat have this combination, and for what? Giving you a special defense buff during your attacking turns? Once again, it can be played around. Trapping will make this a bit on the annoying side, though. I'll abstain from this voting.

Trick + AV prevents a Pokemon from using anything but attacking moves, basically making it entirely unusable for half the battle. You can play around it by switching in a Pokemon holding a mega stone or a pure attacker that doesn't mind being locked out of utility moves, but it's a bigger threat than you'd expect in this meta. Best case scenario, switching into a Pokemon to take the AV and then switching out already burns two of your defensive turns, along with potentially crippling one of your 'mons. This gives the Klutz user an extra turn to do whatever they want while their opponent switches around.

It can be played around with smart switches and immune Pokemon, but honestly so can Taunt, which has already been banned. I'm going to vote ban on both for the same reasons as Snaquaza -- it limits move choice and seems to go against what this meta is about. I will make a suggestion, however: you can simplify the bans to "Choice item or AV + Trick/Switcheroo." It's not possible to use the Trick + AV strat unless you have Klutz, so adding it to the ban is pointless.

 

[MAMP]

Personally, I think it's far too early to vote on bans. I think it's better to let the metagame develop first.

 

[DinaIsha]

Seconding Mamp. Let this be coded and hosted first. Then you'd maybe figure our more important situations than Trick or Klutz.

 

[Tarontos]

Smergal@lumberry
-baton pass
-shell smash
-spore
-knock off
spore first
Smash once and twice
if your enemy woke spore
if not smash
pass

Dragonite@white herb
extreem speed
aqua jet
Dragon claw
thunder wave
= gg
add 4 more sweepers pick based on what you opponent has kill them all

 

[DinaIsha]

Smergal@lumberry
-baton pass
-shell smash
-spore
-knock off
spore first
Smash once and twice
if your enemy woke spore
if not smash
pass

Dragonite@white herb
extreem speed
aqua jet
Dragon claw
thunder wave
= gg
add 4 more sweepers pick based on what you opponent has kill them all

Incidentally, Curse Treveant beats this Strategy left and right.

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

Um....There is a metagame almost identical to this called Lamemons/Pacifistmons, that does almost the exact same thing.

Honestly, despite my love for stall, I don't really like this metagame idea and any like it: it just forces offensive games with Nature Power. Not cool.

 

[MAMP]

Um....There is a metagame almost identical to this called Lamemons/Pacifistmons, that does almost the exact same thing.

Honestly, despite my love for stall, I don't really like this metagame idea and any like it: it just forces offensive games with Nature Power. Not cool.

This is actually quite different, this meta alternates between not being able to attack, and only being able to attack.

 

[Emerald Master]

mega absol should be good in this, with high speed, snatch, magic bounce, and suckerpunch. He can snatch/bounce during setup, the ruin things with suckerpunch during the attack phase

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

This is actually quite different, this meta alternates between not being able to attack, and only being able to attack.

But even then, you still have people who want to attack EVERY turn, so they would use an HO team with Nature Power+Offensive move and a spikes stacker to use HO all other everyone else.

mega absol should be good in this, with high speed, snatch, magic bounce, and suckerpunch. He can snatch/bounce during setup, the ruin things with suckerpunch during the attack phase

But he can't take a hit....And if the opponent has ExtremeSpeed on the mon they have out, you are screwed. Also, if they have priority and can outspeed you anyways, this switch is useless.

 

[Xmas121]

OK, some of you need to read the Q&A. Any updates to move changes will be there. For instance:

Um....There is a metagame almost identical to this called Lamemons/Pacifistmons, that does almost the exact same thing.

Honestly, despite my love for stall, I don't really like this metagame idea and any like it: it just forces offensive games with Nature Power. Not cool.

Nature Power is an attacking move now - can only be used on attacking turns. I agree in the fact it was a cheap way to bypass the main rule of the meta. also I've never heard of either metagame, so I'll do a little research and look into it. I did say in my submission (not in this thread) that I hadn't found a metagame in the 11-something pages that combined pure offense and pure defense.

Seconding Mamp. Let this be coded and hosted first. Then you'd maybe figure our more important situations than Trick or Klutz.

Sorry for the speed, just wanted to get a discussion going. I get your concerns and will hold off on that type of stuff. Speaking of coding/hosting, does anyone know someone who could help with either?

EDIT: Back. What I found was a meta that had one of the same core problems: nature power. Apart from that it's quite different because in Turnmons things like boosting moves (useless in Pacifistmons) are important and the fact that you can actually attack half the time. I respect your opinion on the metagame, but prefer constructive criticism over straight negative feedback.