Torkoal (Update)


Torkoal

Torkoal is pretty underrated and its analysis is old as hell, so here's a revamp.

Status: GP 2/2, finished

------------------------

[Overview]

<p>Torkoal is usually overlooked in favor of other bulky Fire-types such as Arcanine, or supporters like Donphan, but fortunately, it has several traits that distinguish itself from such Pokemon. Its massive 140 base Defense stat is certainly unique as far as Fire-types are concerned, allowing Torkoal to counter some top physical threats in UU such as Swellow, Absol, Scyther, and the assortment of Fighting-types. This is complemented well by a respectable support movepool consisting of Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Yawn, and Will-O-Wisp. While Torkoal does have its uses, with its weakness to Stealth Rock, low Special Defense, and lack of reliable recovery, the Coal Pokemon just falls short of being an ideal defensive Pokemon.</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 4: Yawn / Toxic / Explosion
nature: Bold / Relaxed
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Torkoal's fantastic Defense stat gives it many opportunities to switch in and clear entry hazards with Rapid Spin or set up Stealth Rock. At the same time, this set can serve as a counter to many common physical attackers in UU, crippling them with a status move or blasting them with a solid STAB Fire-type attack.</p>

<p>Yawn is the favourable status option; other than sleep being a powerful tool, it forces Ghost-types hoping to block Rapid Spin to choose between switching out (thus losing their entry hazards) or being put to sleep. Toxic is an alternative to gradually wear down opposing Pokemon through poison damage, especially those who can shrug off Torkoal's Fire-type attacks. The choice between Lava Plume and Flamethrower comes down to whether you would rather have more power or an increased burn rate. Lava Plume is preferable due to its high burn rate, although it can conflict with Yawn or Toxic, while Flamethrower maintains the chance to burn while boasting slightly more power. Finally, Explosion can also be used in the last slot with a Relaxed nature to inflict some heavy damage before fainting.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set can function in the lead slot, as it matches up favorably against the likes of Ambipom and Uxie, able to set up Stealth Rock or prevent opposing hazards with Rapid Spin. For a more reliable burn-inducing move, Will-O-Wisp can be used in the fourth slot along with Flamethrower. If your team is already packing a Stealth Rock user, the move can be replaced by an extra status move or Explosion.</p>

<p>Torkoal requires teammates to patch up the unfortunate weaknesses that come bundled with its Fire typing. Bulky Water-types are the bane of Torkoal's existence, especially those with instant recovery, such as Slowbro and Milotic; therefore, it's important to have an answer to such foes. Grass-types like Venusaur and Exeggutor are great candidates to remedy this problem, as they are able to switch in on the aforementioned Water-types without much fear and heal any damage taken with Synthesis. Offensively, Toxicroak can take advantage of Water-type attacks aimed at Torkoal with its Dry Skin ability in order to set up a free Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Despite causing issues for it in battle, bulky Water-types complement Torkoal fantastically; they are able to sponge powerful Rock- and Ground-type attacks that it struggles against, while also countering Fire-types that wall Torkoal if it doesn't have Toxic. Additionally, utilizing both a Water- and a Grass-type alongside Torkoal completes the common Fire-Water-Grass core that creates a solid backbone for any team.</p>

<p>Generally, Torkoal's high Defense and low Special Defense means it synergizes well with specially defensive Pokemon. Clefable and Chansey can easily come in on the aforementioned Water-types, force them out, then use Wish to pass to a teammate. Torkoal especially appreciates this since it lacks recovery options outside of Rest. Altaria has useful resistances to Water- and Ground-type attacks (although many Water-types do also carry an Ice-type attack), and it can use Roost to continue supporting Torkoal throughout the duration of a battle.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Torkoal's biggest downside is its lack of instant recovery, and sadly, Rest is the ony way to solve this issue. Should you choose to run Rest, it's recommended that you use Sleep Talk as well; the other moves should preferably be a Fire-type attack and Toxic, allowing Torkoal to pose as much of a threat as possible while asleep. Protect is a decent alternative on the Support set as it gives a turn of free Leftovers recovery, and it can accumulate Toxic damage as well or scout the opponent's move after using Yawn. Torkoal may also invest in Special Defense EVs to handle some special attackers better, such as Moltres and Venusaur, as its massive Defense stat means it will still be able to tank physical hits quite well even without investment.</p>

<p>Outside of its usual support duties, Torkoal can make some use out of its respectable base 85 attacking stats. With a mixed attacking set consisting of Fire Blast, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Explosion with maximum offensive EV investment, Torkoal may nab a few surprise kills on some Pokemon (such as Explosion on bulky Water-types) expecting an easy switch-in. Torkoal has access to Curse; however, with such a shallow physical movepool which lacks even a Fire-type STAB attack, it's best not to dedicate an entire moveset to it. Other than the occasional surprise factor, Torkoal is simply best sticking with defensive and supportive roles.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As previously mentioned, bulky Water-types are the biggest problem for Torkoal, as they resist Fire-type attacks and can threaten to deal heavy damage with their STAB moves. Milotic and Slowbro can continually switch in and shrug off any damage with Recover and Slack Off, respectively. Blastoise can use Rapid Spin to stop Torkoal's attempts to keep Stealth Rock on the field, while Omastar and Qwilfish can set up their own entry hazards. Azumarill must be careful of being burned when switching in, but the Aquarabbit Pokemon can then set up a free Substitute that Torkoal cannot break without Explosion. The only real defense Torkoal has against these Pokemon is hitting them with Toxic or Yawn on the switch.</p>

<p>Chansey, Clefable, and Altaria all boast Natural Cure, impressive bulk, and instant recovery, allowing them to completely wall Torkoal. Fire-types also wall Torkoal if it isn't running Toxic or Sleep Clause is already activated (thus making Yawn useless), as they resist Fire-type attacks and are immune to burns from Lava Plume. Houndoom can come in any of Torkoal's attacks to set up a Nasty Plot, or inflict some powerful blows with a Flash Fire-boosted Fire Blast. Moltres is another Fire-type that threatens Torkoal due to its high Special Attack and access to Roost.</p>

<p>Speaking of powerful special attackers, targeting Torkoal's weaker Special Defense stat is one of the easiest ways to defeat it or force it to switch out. Mismagius can plow through Torkoal with Shadow Ball after a Nasty Plot boost, or set up with Calm Mind to prevent Torkoal from breaking its Substitutes. Alakazam, and Espeon can OHKO Torkoal with a Life Orb-boosted Psychic after Stealth Rock damage, as can other immediate blows like Altaria's Draco Meteor or Nidoking's Earth Power. Some monstrous physical attackers can also bypass Torkoal's massive Defense stat, most notably Rhyperior and Aggron equipped with a Choice Band; however, these Pokemon must watch out for burns.</p>
 

Oglemi

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That's a negative on the RestTalk set. I tried it, and those Pokemon you listed in the counters section have an even easier time molesting our poor smoking turtle when he's asleep.

I do think that a Tank set is worth at least mentioning somewhere, as I've used it before. I think it was a mixed set and looked something like this:

[SET]
name: Mixed Tank
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Earth Power / Earthquake
move 4: Explosion
item: Leftovers
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA

I highly doubt those are the most efficient evs. It covers a lot Pokemon, especially those Fire-types that think they get a free switch into Torkoal. Water-types still have their way with him though. I'm not saying it deserves an analysis, but maybe a mention in OC.
 
Hm cool, I'll put it in OC for now and test it myself soon. And yeah not surprising to hear the RestTalk set is underwhelming. =/
 
Time to bump this I guess, any QCers wanna check this out? I also tried a few offensively oriented sets and I'd say they're OC material. It works sometimes but I found that it gains a whole load of issues by not taking advantage of its defense stat, and it doesn't really hit that hard to be too threatening. That's just me though.
 

Alchemator

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I tried a Yawn + Protect Torkoal in OU and it worked really quite well, so I'd definitely give Protect a mention in AC.

Also, I know you've mentioned Wish Support already but it really is crucial on Torkoal - especially with the Stealth Rock weakness.
 
I have Protect in OC but I'll mention it in the main set as well. Yeah, I'll be sure to emphasize Wish support too.
 

Bad Ass

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torkoal isn't all that great, and the set listed utilizes the main reasons you would use him over, say, arcanine
 

Bluewind

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Yeah, to be honest it doesn't please me to give Torkoal so many Def EVs for so little side effect when they could be delegated to SpD, but it doesn't have a reliable recovery move or something to hit stuff like Moltres so whatever. Emphatize Yawn and how it makes spinning easier, and approved.
 
Wooo, eventually I got around to doing this the other day. I dunno if we're GPing under the new format immediately, but it's all ready whenever.

I love the new format btw, not having to write the redundant Team Options section makes everything much easier :D
 

Snorlaxe

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additions
removals

[Overview]

<p>Torkoal is usually overlooked in favor of other bulky Fire-types such as Arcanine or supporters like Donphan, but fortunately, it has several traits that distinguish itself from such Pokemon. Its massive 140 base Defense stat is certainly unique as far as Fire-types are concerned, allowing Torkoal to counter some top physical threats in UU such as Swellow, Absol, Scyther, and the assortment of Fighting-types. This is complimented complemented well by a respectable support movepool consisting of Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Yawn, and Will-o-wisp Will-O-Wisp. While Torkoal does have its uses, between a weakness to Stealth Rock, low Special Defense, and lack of reliable recovery, Torkoal the Coal Pokemon just falls short of being an ideal defensive Pokemon.</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 4: Yawn / Toxic / Explosion
nature: Bold / Relaxed
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Torkoal's fantastic Defense stat allows gives it many opportunities to switch in safely in order to clear entry hazards with Rapid Spin or set up Stealth Rock. At the same time, this set can serve as a counter to many common physical attackers in UU, crippling them with a status move or blasting them with a solid Fire-type STAB Fire-type attack.</p>

<p>Yawn is the favourable status option; other then sleep being a powerful tool, it forces Ghost-types hoping to block Rapid Spin to choose between switching out (and thus losing their entry hazards) or suffer being put to sleep. Toxic is an alternative to gradually wear down opponents instead, opposing Pokemon through poison damage, especially against those who can shrug off Torkoal's Fire-type attacks. The choice between Lava Plume and Flamethrower comes down to whether you would rather have more power versus status or an increased burn chance. Lava Plume is preferable due to its high burn rate, although it this can conflict with Yawn or Toxic, while Flamethrower maintains the chance to burn with while boasting slightly more power. Finally, Explosion can be opted used over the status move of choice with a Relaxed nature to inflict some heavy damage before fainting.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set can function in the lead slot, as it matches up favorably against the likes of Ambipom and Uxie, taking minimal damage able to set up Stealth Rock or prevent opposing hazards with Rapid Spin. For more control over burning opponents a more reliable burn-inducing move, Will-o-wisp Will-O-Wisp can be used in the status fourth slot along with Flamethrower. If Stealth Rock is easily fitted elsewhere on your team If your team is already packing a Stealth Rock user, it the move can be replaced by an extra status move or Explosion.</p>

<p>Torkoal firstly requires teammates to patch up the unfortunate weaknesses that come bundled with its Fire-typing Fire typing. Bulky Water-types are the bane of Torkoal's existence, especially those with instant recovery, like such as Slowbro and Milotic, so Milotic; therefore, it's important to have an answer to them such foes. Grass-types like Venusaur and Exeggutor are great candidates to remedy this problem, as they are able to switch in on the aforementioned Water-types without much fear and heal any damage taken with Synthesis. Offensively, Toxicroak can take advantage of Water-type attacks aimed at Torkoal with its Dry Skin ability in order to set up a free Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Despite causing issues for it in battle, bulky Water-types also compliment complement Torkoal fantastically. They are able to sponge powerful Rock- and Ground-type attacks that it struggles against, while also countering Fire-types that wall Torkoal if it doesn't have Toxic. With both a Water-type and a Grass-type to team up with Torkoal, this also Additionally, utilizing both a Water- and Grass-type alongside Torkoal completes the common Fire-Water-Grass core that creates a solid backbone for any team.</p>

<p>Generally, Torkoal's high Defense and low Special Defense means it synergizes well with specially defensive Pokemon. Clefable and Chansey can use easily come in on the aforementioned Water-types, switch-ins to force them out, then set up a free Wish to pass to a teammate. Torkoal especially appreciates this since it lacks recovery options outside of Rest. Altaria comes with has useful resistances to Water- and Ground-type attacks (although many Water-types do also carry an Ice-type attack), and it can use Roost to continue supporting Torkoal throughout a the duration of the battle.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Torkoal's biggest downside is its lack of instant recovery, and sadly, Rest is the ony way to solve this issue. Should you choose to run Rest, it's recommended that you use Sleep Talk as well; the other moves should preferrably be is recommended alongside it, with the other preferable moves being a Fire-type attack and Toxic, allowing Torkoal to pose as much of a threat as possible while asleep. Protect is a decent alternative for free Leftovers recovery; it can accumulate Toxic damage as well, or scout the opponent's move after using Yawn. Torkoal can afford to invest in Special Defense EVs to handle some special attackers better, like such as Moltres and Venusaur, as its massive Defense stat still keeps its ability means the Coal Pokemon will still be able to tank physical hits quite well.</p>

<p>Outside of its usual support duties, Torkoal can make some use out of its respectable base 85 attacking stats. With a mixed attacking set consisting of Fire Blast, Earthquake, and Explosion with maximum offensive EV investment, Torkoal may earn nab a few surprise kills on some Pokemon (such as Explosion on bulky-Waters bulky Water-types) expecting an easy switch-in. Torkoal has access to Curse; however, with such a shallow physical movepool which lacks even a Fire-type STAB attack, it's best not to dedicate an entire moveset for to it. Other than the occasional surprise factor, Torkoal is simply best sticking with defensive and support roles.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As previously mentioned, bulky-Water bulky Water-types are the biggest problem for Torkoal, as they resist Fire-type attacks and can threaten to deal heavy damage with their STAB attacks moves. Milotic and Slowbro can continually switch in and shrug off any damage with Recover and Slack Off, respectively. Blastoise can use Rapid Spin to stop Torkoal's attempts to keep Stealth Rock on the field, while Omastar and Qwilfish can set up their own entry hazards. Azumarill must be careful of being burned when switching in, but the risk can pay off as it results in Aquarabbit Pokemon can potentially set up a free Substitute that Torkoal cannot break without Explosion. The only real defense Torkoal has against these Pokemon is hitting them with Toxic or Yawn on the switch.</p>

<p>Chansey, Clefable, and Altaria all boast Natural Cure, impressive bulk, and instant recovery, allowing them to completely wall Torkoal. Fire-types also wall Torkoal if it isn't running Toxic or Sleep Clause is already activated (thus making Yawn useless), as they resist Fire-type attacks and are immune to burns from Lava Plume. Houndoom can come in any of Torkoal's attacks to set up a Nasty Plot, or inflict some powerful blows with a Flash Fire-boosted Fire Blast. Moltres is another Fire-type that threatens Torkoal due to its high Special Attack and access to Roost.</p>

<p>Speaking of powerful special attackers, aiming at targeting Torkoal's weaker Special Defense stat is one of the easiest ways to defeat it or force it to switch out. Mismagius can plow through Torkoal with Shadow Ball after a Nasty Plot boost, or set up with Calm Mind to prevent Torkoal from breaking its Substitues. Alakazam, Espeon, and Exeggutor can OHKO Torkoal with a Life Orb-boosted Psychic after Stealth Rock damage, as can other immediate blows like such as Altaria's Draco Meteor or Nidoking's Earth Power. Some monstrous physical attackers can also bypass Torkoal's massive Defense stat, most notably Rhyperior and Aggron equipped with a Choice Band, but they Band; however, these Pokemon must watch out for burns.</p>


some problems, but good stuff overall

 

Komodo

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[Overview]

<p>Torkoal is usually overlooked in favor of other bulky Fire-types such as Arcanine,(comma) or supporters like Donphan, but fortunately, it has several traits that distinguish itself from such Pokemon. Its massive 140 base Defense stat is certainly unique as far as Fire-types are concerned, allowing Torkoal to counter some top physical threats in UU such as Swellow, Absol, Scyther, and the assortment of Fighting-types. This is complemented well by a respectable support movepool consisting of Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Yawn, and Will-O-Wisp. While Torkoal does have its uses, between a with its weakness to Stealth Rock, low Special Defense, and lack of reliable recovery, the Coal Pokemon just falls short of being an ideal defensive Pokemon.</p>

[SET]

name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 4: Yawn / Toxic / Explosion
nature: Bold / Relaxed
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Torkoal's fantastic Defense stat gives it many opportunities to switch in safely in order to and clear entry hazards with Rapid Spin or set up Stealth Rock. At the same time, this set can serve as a counter to many common physical attackers in UU, crippling them with a status move or blasting them with a solid STAB Fire-type attack.</p>(possibly give an example of physical attackers it counters?)

<p>Yawn is the favourable status option; other than sleep being a powerful tool, it forces Ghost-types hoping to block Rapid Spin to choose between switching out (thus losing their entry hazards) or being put to sleep. Toxic is an alternative to gradually wear down opposing Pokemon through poison damage, especially those who can shrug off Torkoal's Fire-type attacks. The choice between Lava Plume and Flamethrower comes down to whether you would rather have more power or an increased burn chance rate. Lava Plume is preferable due to its high burn rate, although it can conflict with Yawn or Toxic, while Flamethrower maintains the chance to burn while boasting slightly more power. Finally, Explosion can be used over the status move of choice in the last slot with a Relaxed nature to inflict some heavy damage before fainting.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set can function in the lead slot, as it matches up favorably against the likes of Ambipom and Uxie, able to set up Stealth Rock or prevent opposing hazards with Rapid Spin. For a more reliable burn-inducing move, Will-O-Wisp can be used in the fourth slot along with Flamethrower. If your team is already packing a Stealth Rock user, the move can be replaced by an extra status move or Explosion.</p>

<p>Torkoal requires teammates to patch up the unfortunate weaknesses that come bundled with its Fire typing. Bulky Water-types are the bane of Torkoal's existence, especially those with instant recovery, such as Slowbro and Milotic; therefore, it's important to have an answer to such foes. Grass-types like Venusaur and Exeggutor are great candidates to remedy this problem, as they are able to switch in on the aforementioned Water-types without much fear and heal any damage taken with Synthesis. Offensively, Toxicroak can take advantage of Water-type attacks aimed at Torkoal with its Dry Skin ability in order to set up a free Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Despite causing issues for it in battle, bulky Water-types complement Torkoal fantastically;(semi colon) they are able to sponge powerful Rock- and Ground-type attacks that it struggles against, while also countering Fire-types that wall Torkoal if it doesn't have Toxic. Additionally, utilizing both a Water- and a Grass-type alongside Torkoal completes the common Fire-Water-Grass core that creates a solid backbone for any team.</p>

<p>Generally, Torkoal's high Defense and (is this relevant? Your judgement) low Special Defense means it synergizes well with specially defensive Pokemon. Clefable and Chansey can easily come in on the aforementioned Water-types, force them out, then set up a free use Wish to pass to a teammate. Torkoal especially appreciates this since it lacks recovery options outside of Rest. Altaria has useful resistances to Water- and Ground-type attacks (although many Water-types do also carry an Ice-type attack), and it can use Roost to continue supporting Torkoal throughout the duration of a battle.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Torkoal's biggest downside is its lack of instant recovery, and sadly, Rest is the ony way to solve this issue. Should you choose to run Rest, it's recommended that you use Sleep Talk as well; the other moves should preferably be a Fire-type attack and Toxic, allowing Torkoal to pose as much of a threat as possible while asleep. Protect is a decent alternative as it gives a turn of for free Leftovers recovery,(comma) and it can accumulate Toxic damage as well, or scout the opponent's move after using Yawn. Torkoal can afford to may also invest in Special Defense EVs to handle some special attackers better, such as Moltres and Venusaur, as its massive Defense stat means it will still be able to tank physical hits quite well.</p>

<p>Outside of its usual support duties, Torkoal can make some use out of its respectable base 85 attacking stats. With a mixed attacking set consisting of Fire Blast, Earthquake, and Explosion with maximum offensive EV investment, Torkoal may nab a few surprise kills on some Pokemon (such as Explosion on bulky Water-types) expecting an easy switch-in. Torkoal has access to Curse; however, with such a shallow physical movepool which lacks even a Fire-type STAB attack, it's best not to dedicate an entire moveset to it. Other than the occasional surprise factor, Torkoal is simply best sticking with defensive and support roles.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As previously mentioned, bulky Water-types are the biggest problem for Torkoal, as they resist Fire-type attacks and can threaten to deal heavy damage with their STAB moves. Milotic and Slowbro can continually switch in and shrug off any damage with Recover and Slack Off, respectively. Blastoise can use Rapid Spin to stop Torkoal's attempts to keep Stealth Rock on the field, while Omastar and Qwilfish can set up their own entry hazards. Azumarill must be careful of being burned when switching in, but the Aquarabbit Pokemon can then set up a free Substitute that Torkoal cannot break without Explosion. The only real defense Torkoal has against these Pokemon is hitting them with Toxic or Yawn on the switch.</p>

<p>Chansey, Clefable, and Altaria all boast Natural Cure, impressive bulk, and instant recovery, allowing them to completely wall Torkoal. Fire-types also wall Torkoal if it isn't running Toxic or Sleep Clause is already activated (thus making Yawn useless), as they resist Fire-type attacks and are immune to burns from Lava Plume. Houndoom can come in any of Torkoal's attacks to set up a Nasty Plot, or inflict some powerful blows with a Flash Fire-boosted Fire Blast. Moltres is another Fire-type that threatens Torkoal due to its high Special Attack and access to Roost.</p>

<p>Speaking of powerful special attackers, targeting Torkoal's weaker Special Defense stat is one of the easiest ways to defeat it or force it to switch out. Mismagius can plow through Torkoal with Shadow Ball after a Nasty Plot boost, or set up with Calm Mind to prevent Torkoal from breaking its Substitutes. Alakazam, Espeon, and Exeggutor can OHKO Torkoal with a Life Orb-boosted Psychic after Stealth Rock damage, as can other immediate blows like Altaria's Draco Meteor or Nidoking's Earth Power. Some monstrous physical attackers can also bypass Torkoal's massive Defense stat, most notably Rhyperior and Aggron equipped with a Choice Band; however, these Pokemon must watch out for burns.</p>


A few word changes to make it "flow" better, but cool!

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Thanks a lot Komodo, done. This should be all ready for upload now.

(possibly give an example of physical attackers it counters?)
I didn't bother since I'd basically be repeating the same line from the overview, but I can add something if you think it's really worth it.

(is this relevant? Your judgement)
Yeah I'd say it is, since pokes that invest in SpDef usually have a weak defensive side.
 

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