The Wish Maker [OU Jirachi Team]

I really like your team and I an see it working quite well. There are some isues though:

I never thought that I will ever say this in Platinum, but once Tyranitar is down, Celebi will wall your entire team. Can be fixed easily though: Replace Psychic with Flash Cannon on Jirachi. This makes it easier for Jirachi to set up and also means Tyranitar has a much harder time against it. This works especially well together with Gyarados, because with Taunt, he can usually simply set up on Swampert.

Speaking of Swampert, it might be beneficial for most of your team members to have him out of the way early in the game. Which is why I suggest squeezing Celebi or Roserade in there somewhere. "Tinkerbell" might suit the semi-offencive style of your team:

Celebi @ Life Orb
Modest
232 HP, 244 SpA, 32 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- HP [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Hope I helped. Sry for not going into detail more, but I's gotta go to Uni now.
 

Scofield

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How exactly are you bluffing a choice item? Spamming bp is going to get you trapped by zone. Anything that comes in expecting u turn is resisted by superpower, not to mention iron plate is only boosting one move, which is irrelevant once you get a sd in. So..why not try shed shell on scizor to avoid being trapped by zone if you don't care about power? And this team has an absolutely atrocious gyarados weakness. I don't normally recommend this, but put hp electric on pert on that last slot and everything should be fine.
 
I really like your team and I an see it working quite well. There are some isues though:

I never thought that I will ever say this in Platinum, but once Tyranitar is down, Celebi will wall your entire team. Can be fixed easily though: Replace Psychic with Flash Cannon on Jirachi. This makes it easier for Jirachi to set up and also means Tyranitar has a much harder time against it. This works especially well together with Gyarados, because with Taunt, he can usually simply set up on Swampert.

Speaking of Swampert, it might be beneficial for most of your team members to have him out of the way early in the game. Which is why I suggest squeezing Celebi or Roserade in there somewhere. "Tinkerbell" might suit the semi-offencive style of your team:

Celebi @ Life Orb
Modest
232 HP, 244 SpA, 32 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- HP [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Hope I helped. Sry for not going into detail more, but I's gotta go to Uni now.
Well Gliscor can handle Celebi that don't have HP Ice. Taunt stops Recover and U-Turn does like 40% to it IIRC. I'll reconsider Flash Cannon though. The main reason I have Psychic is because I hated being walled by Rotom-A and Swampert. It also gets rid of Machamp which is a major annoyance.

How exactly are you bluffing a choice item? Spamming bp is going to get you trapped by zone. Anything that comes in expecting u turn is resisted by superpower, not to mention iron plate is only boosting one move, which is irrelevant once you get a sd in. So..why not try shed shell on scizor to avoid being trapped by zone if you don't care about power? And this team has an absolutely atrocious gyarados weakness. I don't normally recommend this, but put hp electric on pert on that last slot and everything should be fine.
I chose Iron Plate mainly to make it easier to revenge kill Salamence (and other things), which is far more deadly than Magnezone. Iron Plate also guarantees a 2HKO on Gliscor after SD. Bullet Punch is the main attack I'm using so I figured it would be best to boost it. Magnezone isn't too much of a problem if I predict correctly.

And yes, I am aware of the Gyarados weakness. Thankfully, it only gets set up opportunities on Scizor. HP: Electric sounds like a good idea though, it'll catch Taunt-Gyarados off guard. I'll give it a shot.


Great suggestions, keep 'em coming :D
 
Kingdra, Gyarados, Swampert and Salamence I see on the threat list.
Well a revenge killer with a choice scarf (I know you don't like it but it makes live easier) can kill all 4 of this pokemon.I think a Latias with Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Trick and Surf will fit in good. It can OHKO 3 of the aforementioned 4 and can blast a serious hole in Swampert or even trick the choice scarf to it. It can make Blissey useless. OHKO skarm and so it makes stall useless too.

I think you should Drop either swampert or drop Gliscor and put Swampert in the lead position. Only downside is that this makes it alot harder for Gyarados too come in with SR up so I would drop Swampert
 
Hmm, well the only problem I have with Latias is that it makes Tyranitar more of a threat. Swampert is the best check I have to TTar while Gliscor is the only counter I have to SD Lucario.

HP Electric Swampert has been working well for me so I might keep that change in.
 

Colonel M

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Looks like a fairly solid team.

If you're looking for a bluff way for Scizor, try Shed Shell. It helps remove the inability to be trapped by Magnezone. This will help Scizor maintain as your lategame sweeper, unless you're missing some necessary KOes from the Iron Plate.

I also agree with Scofield and packing HP Electric on Swampert. Gyarados seems to be a prime threat against this team and the last thing needed is this guy setting up. Especially those with Taunt will thrash this team left and right.

Another Pokemon I'd put on the be careful list: Jolly Luke. This guy could do a number to the team after a Swords Dance and with Close Combat | Stone Edge | ExtremeSpeed it could easily 1-2HKO everyone on the team. Infernape might do a number on Gyarados since Life Orb Grass Knot and Stealth Rock are going to make major dents on you. After that your only "safe" Pokemon is perhaps Scizor due to Bullet Punch. Might just recommend putting Stealth Rock over U-Turn on Gliscor and throwing Vaporeon over Swampert, but then again it puts a bit of pressure against DDSalamence.
 
The main reason I have Iron Plate on Scizor is because it makes it easier to revenge kill DD Salamence and other threats that my team cannot outspeed. Since I'm dependent on recidual damage to put DD Salamence into the KO range, I need to do as much damage as possible with Bullet Punch. Disposing of these threats are usually more important than Magnezone. While Scizor is my late game sweeper, I rarely have to set up with it because Gyarados and/or Jirachi have already done a lot of damage or won me the game.

Gliscor should be able to revenge kill Lucario since it outruns Jolly variants. +2 Jolly Life Orb ExtremeSpeed does ~57% max to my Gliscor while it OHKOs back with Earthquake.

Ironically, I originally had Vaporeon over Swampert at one point with Gliscor being my Stealth Rock user. I made the change because Swampert covers Salamence and Tyranitar better than Vaporeon does. Gliscor's Taunt + U-Turn hits Celebi hard so it doesn't remain a problem for Gyarados or Jirachi.

Anyways, I added HP: Electric on Swampert and it has tremendously helped to patch up my Gyarados weakness. Infernape hasn't bothered me too much, but that's because I've only encountered two in my battles, and both times I had +1 Gyarados so it wasn't a problem. But yes, I can see how it could take a huge chunk out of my team if Gyarados is down. I may add Vaporeon over Swampert, but that leaves me dependent on Scizor to revenge kill DD Mence.


Any thoughts on Wish over Substitute on Jirachi? I can't decide between the two. When I have Wish, there are times where I wish I had Substitute and vice-versa. Wish helps the whole team and keeps Jirachi around longer, while Substitute makes it easier for Jirachi to set up and protects it from Trick.
 
If you want to be less dependent on scizor revenge checking salamence, you could move swampert to the lead position and put toxic over u-turn on gliscor. This means salamence can't switch in and DD anywhere, as you can hit it with toxic and then predict around it's switches until SR/Life Orb/Toxic/SS damage brings it to death or low enough to where scizor can finish with BP. I've done this several times and only lost about 1 poke each time. You could then put shed shell over iron plate if you wanted to.

Also, if you're running wish on Jirachi, there's a set I saw on an RMT a little while ago from a world cup team that I really liked. It's more of a tank really but it can help heal gyarados/tyranitar more easily while still setting up on many things. Anyways, this is the set.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold (+Def -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

You could opt for flash cannon over one of the attacks to help out with Ttar and latias and not being walled by celebi as said above. This set beats Blissey outright thanks to flamethrower being very weak after a couple CMs and access to wish.
 

Colonel M

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Oh, I didn't see the Jolly Gliscor. My bad.

I'd also stick with Substitute since you can play mindgames with the opponent and prevent being Tricked on. Also makes beating Seisimic Toss Blissey easier. I'd almost recommend ScarfTar though if you think Infernape will be that much of a pain and you want to keep Swampert, but of course locking yourself onto an attack sucks.
 
If you're going to feign band on Scizor, you *may* want to consider U-turn over Roost. Due to the popularity of Scizor, every team has some sort of counter/checks to it, so due to that Roost doesn't really net you any great benefit since you either set up or you don't. Swampert is the only opponent I can think of where Roost may net you more SD than you would've otherwise, and even then it's fairly easy for Scizor to deal with with U-turn as it lacks recovery. I have a SD/BP/Superpower/U-turn Scizor on my team and it sweeps just fine since I can still set up multiple SD when they switch in something like Forretress, Bronzong or even Gliscor.
 
If you want to be less dependent on scizor revenge checking salamence, you could move swampert to the lead position and put toxic over u-turn on gliscor. This means salamence can't switch in and DD anywhere, as you can hit it with toxic and then predict around it's switches until SR/Life Orb/Toxic/SS damage brings it to death or low enough to where scizor can finish with BP. I've done this several times and only lost about 1 poke each time. You could then put shed shell over iron plate if you wanted to.

Also, if you're running wish on Jirachi, there's a set I saw on an RMT a little while ago from a world cup team that I really liked. It's more of a tank really but it can help heal gyarados/tyranitar more easily while still setting up on many things. Anyways, this is the set.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold (+Def -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

You could opt for flash cannon over one of the attacks to help out with Ttar and latias and not being walled by celebi as said above. This set beats Blissey outright thanks to flamethrower being very weak after a couple CMs and access to wish.
I am really liking this Jirachi. +1 Life Orb Adamant Gyarados Earthquake only has a 7% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. I will most likely switch to this Jirachi and put Roar or Yawn back on Swampert since it really helps cover my Gyarados weakness.

However, I might alter the EV spread to 240 HP / 228 Def / 40 Speed so that I can outspeed the standard defensive Zapdos, allowing me to CM before Heat Wave hits. This does boost +1 LO Gyarados' chances to OHKO to ~28% but most of them aren't Life Orb'd anyways.

As for Toxic on Gliscor, I'm still preferring U-Turn for its scouting ability and its ability to hit Celebi hard. I also prefer leading with Gliscor since it can prevent SR from being set up, which helps Gyarados a lot.

Oh, I didn't see the Jolly Gliscor. My bad.

I'd also stick with Substitute since you can play mindgames with the opponent and prevent being Tricked on. Also makes beating Seisimic Toss Blissey easier. I'd almost recommend ScarfTar though if you think Infernape will be that much of a pain and you want to keep Swampert, but of course locking yourself onto an attack sucks.
Yeah I'd prefer not to have Choiced items on this team since it gives huge opportunities for my opponent to set up. I also enjoy OHKOing Lucario that try to set up on my Tyranitar. :P

If you're going to feign band on Scizor, you *may* want to consider U-turn over Roost. Due to the popularity of Scizor, every team has some sort of counter/checks to it, so due to that Roost doesn't really net you any great benefit since you either set up or you don't. Swampert is the only opponent I can think of where Roost may net you more SD than you would've otherwise, and even then it's fairly easy for Scizor to deal with with U-turn as it lacks recovery. I have a SD/BP/Superpower/U-turn Scizor on my team and it sweeps just fine since I can still set up multiple SD when they switch in something like Forretress, Bronzong or even Gliscor.
I've been considering U-Turn lately for scouting purposes since it helps pile up recidual damage as well.

Roost has saved me many times however. Scizor can get multiple SD's on things that don't 2HKO it: Swampert, Vaporeon (though it has a small chance to 2hko), Hippowdon, Gliscor without Taunt...and some more that I can't think of right now xD.
 

Bad Ass

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damn i have a team a lot like this in a sense-its a solid team, but it has a gaping gyarados weakness. if he has rocks up, lo gyara ruins you, and more defensive ones can still do a number if jirachi is not at tip top health. first thing's first, u turn on scizor would help you minimize the chances gyarados gets to set up, so using that over superpower and then adding roost would help you a bunch. the spread 240 hp / 212 sdef / 40 attack @ leftovers could really help your issues with things like logar, lomie, and lo latias. u turn + swords dance seems weird, but it really isn't; it allows you to scout and get a little damage on his counters early game, and then when he gets an sd in late game he can sweep. lack of superpower hurts a lot less than a lack of u turn / roost.

now again with the gyarados weak. take off taunt on gliscor for stealth rock. the simple reasoning is that the things you're taunting can either ohko you (swampert, metagross), or are flat out faster than you (infernape, azelf, aerodactyl). if you want a more detailed reasoning, i believe vashta has one in his rmt, 'welcome home'. with sr up, it makes gyarados that much easier to take down; if you hit him with a u turn from scizor especially he will be at ~45% health the next time he comes in. much more manageable than a 95% gyarados. my last suggestion is to simply toss hp electric on swampert, like scofield suggested.

i do have a concern with the lack of speed, but if it isnt concerning you much, i dont see a need to fix it. good luck with the team, hope my changes helped
 
Hello there. Jirachi is also one of my own favorites to use in OU, so I consider it my duty to help you build a better team.

Now, after looking a bit through this team, I can spot a noticeable weakness against teams that utilize stat boosters such as Dragon Dance Gyarados and even others like SupPetaya Empoleon (noting that you mentioned a weakness to the former yourself). Mainly, the biggest issue for your team appears to be a lack of Speed, which allows the aforementioned Pokémon to have an easier time against your team. I think Swampert is the most replaceable Pokémon in this team for a few reasons. Swampert does not provide any additional resistances that your team requires except against Rock-type attacks, which Gliscor in itself can deal with decently. Second, I think Swampert would probably slow down this team because it is the only one incapable of dealing immediate damage and it will usually give the opponent a free switch-in.

One Pokémon that I think will help you out significantly is Rotom-H, specifically the Choice Scarf set, as outlined below:

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Trick

Now, I suggest Rotom-H specifically for a number of reasons. The first is that is provides your team with a surefire Gyarados counter so you do not have to depend on Jirachi, notably the key Pokémon on your team, to take it out. Next, Rotom-H also allows you to deal with the biggest threats to your team with good prediction. For example, Rotom-H has no trouble switching into Infernape's Grass Knot and picking it off with STAB Thunderbolt while Swampert crippled by Trick will be pretty darn useless against this team. Overheat helps against Steel-types should Gyarados fall, although I could see Rest working here if you want Rotom-H to stick around, considering no major Steel-type gives your team trouble with a combination of Gliscor and Gyarados.

With the main issue in your team taken care of, I'd like to suggest some minor changes. First, I think that U-turn should be replaced for Stealth Rock on Gliscor. As a lead, Gliscor gets many opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, which is highly important to get the upper hand on your opponent's Gyarados and Salamence as fast as possible, putting the latter at least into Scizor's KO range after 2-3 turns of Life Orb recoil and one switch into Stealth Rock. I don't see U-turn being as helpful as Stealth Rock would be, primarily because you aim to cover threats through type resistances anyways.

Next, I really do not see the benefits of running Expert Belt on Tyranitar instead of Leftovers, which actually works just about as well as Choice Band with the given spread, when the notable Pokémon you mentioned that can set up on it (i.e. Lucario) are walled by Gliscor (And Rotom-H, should you choose to add it) anyways. Running Leftovers will increase Tyranitar's durability and your moveset won't be as predictable as hardly any Leftovers Tyranitar run the same moves as the Choice Bander.

Gyarados's EV spread should be changed to 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe. This allows Gyarados to outspeed base 115's and below. From my experience, Gyarados does not need to outspeed anything above that when running an Adamant nature.

Other than that, you have a fairly decent team here. I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to contact me via PM if you have any more questions.
 
I have noticed that Swampert is the weak-link in this team. I've been trying Scarf Starmie over Swampert as a catch-all revenge killer. It is a guaranteed answer to Gyarados, Salamence, Empoleon, and Infernape, even with a Modest nature. It even gets rid of Heatran that annoy Jirachi. I've been using:

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Trick/Grass Knot

Hydro Pump over Surf because the power difference is very noticeable. The reason I went with Scarf Starmie over Scarf Latias is because Starmie can actually take a huge chunk off of Tyranitar with Hydro Pump.

Scarf Rotom-W/Gengar is another Pokemon I have been trying over Swampert. They cover the same threats as Starmie (except for DD Mence with Rotom-W). But they do give me an extra Lucario/Scizor check, which is always welcome.

Any thoughts on including Starmie (or Rotom-W/Gengar) on my team? Right now I'm leaning towards Gengar, but it dies too easily to Scizor.


The main thing I dislike about this change is that Gliscor loses a valuable moveslot to Stealth Rock so I'm hesitant to replace Swampert. Plus, Swampert's physical bulk and its ability to stop most Heatran is very valuable to this team.
 
I made some big changes to the team.

- Dropped Tyranitar for Heatran and moved it into the lead position. I found that it dealt with the majority of OU's leads well and has good synergy with Jirachi/Scizor.
- Dropped Gyarados for Latias. Gyarados died far too quickly. Latias basically accomplishes the same thing as Gyarados but is more durable and adds some much needed speed to this team.
- Dropped Swampert for Scarf Starmie, which I mentioned above. This covers most of the top threats in the metagame.

With these changes, most of my old threats are covered, though some newer ones have been created xD. I also shortened down my descriptions since I felt they were TOO long.

Any thoughts on the new changes/how to cover the newer threats?

(I hope this bump is allowed, sorry if it isn't x_x)
 
Alright, I got your PM, so here goes.

To be honest, I can't really find any big weaknesses on this team since you appear to cover them all pretty well. My main concern, however, is that special sweepers such as Life Orb Latias and Gengar are able to weaken your team sufficiently as Scizor's current EV spread is ineffective in handling both of those threats. Instead, since you are running Swords Dance anyways, I'd like you to try the following EV spread: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD. By running this EV spread, Scizor will have a little bit more insurance against those special attackers, meaning that you can even set up Swords Dance on them whereas you could not before as you risked a 2HKO.

You may also want to run Life Orb on Latias instead of Leftovers as you stated, as with a combination of decent durability and Recover, the extra power will, in the long run, help you out more instead of the slightly better durability that Latias does not need.

On Jirachi, since you are not running Substitute, you could always drop down your HP to 401, given by 240 HP EVs, which will allow you to survive 5 consecutive Seismic Tosses from Blissey after Leftovers recovery, although that's slightly redundant due to Wish.

Heatran could run Explosion instead of Hidden Power Grass since Latias switches into Swampert with impunity.

Anyways, what I'd like you to do is perhaps share your experiences with this team and let me know if you have had any specific problems you would like some help with. As I said, there aren't any real problems on paper, so in order to provide the best suggestions possible, I'd like for you to provide said information if you can. Other than that, your revised team seems sound. Good luck!
 
Alright, I got your PM, so here goes.

To be honest, I can't really find any big weaknesses on this team since you appear to cover them all pretty well. My main concern, however, is that special sweepers such as Life Orb Latias and Gengar are able to weaken your team sufficiently as Scizor's current EV spread is ineffective in handling both of those threats. Instead, since you are running Swords Dance anyways, I'd like you to try the following EV spread: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD. By running this EV spread, Scizor will have a little bit more insurance against those special attackers, meaning that you can even set up Swords Dance on them whereas you could not before as you risked a 2HKO.

You may also want to run Life Orb on Latias instead of Leftovers as you stated, as with a combination of decent durability and Recover, the extra power will, in the long run, help you out more instead of the slightly better durability that Latias does not need.

On Jirachi, since you are not running Substitute, you could always drop down your HP to 401, given by 240 HP EVs, which will allow you to survive 5 consecutive Seismic Tosses from Blissey after Leftovers recovery, although that's slightly redundant due to Wish.

Heatran could run Explosion instead of Hidden Power Grass since Latias switches into Swampert with impunity.

Anyways, what I'd like you to do is perhaps share your experiences with this team and let me know if you have had any specific problems you would like some help with. As I said, there aren't any real problems on paper, so in order to provide the best suggestions possible, I'd like for you to provide said information if you can. Other than that, your revised team seems sound. Good luck!
Thanks for reviewing my team again. I tried out your suggestions and I made all of the changes you suggested.

This team does work very well. However, like you stated, special sweepers have been giving me troubles. Gengar really hasn't bothered me, but Latias and especially Suicune have given me problems. Jirachi is usually fine against Suicune if it doesn't have Roar. But if it does (the CM Shuffle set), I'm usually screwed after a few CM boosts. Latias has several opportunities to set up on my team, but Scizor can usually take it out. If these checks go down, I usually have to resort in Tricking Starmie's Scarf and hope they use the wrong attack.
 
I have a problem with the Heatran lead, Jirachi is going to trick you regardless of you using Earth Power. Giving him Fire Blast/Flamethrower will make him a more effective revenge killer later on. Or scrap the lead entirely since you don't need to counter Metagross leads as he has little power against the rest of your team. Yu may want the lead to do something like set up Toxic Spikes so you can stall with Latias, Gliscor, Jirachi or Scizor (looks like it could be a semi-stall team). I hate recommending the now common Roserade but it may just be good on your team.
 
I have a problem with the Heatran lead, Jirachi is going to trick you regardless of you using Earth Power. Giving him Fire Blast/Flamethrower will make him a more effective revenge killer later on. Or scrap the lead entirely since you don't need to counter Metagross leads as he has little power against the rest of your team. Yu may want the lead to do something like set up Toxic Spikes so you can stall with Latias, Gliscor, Jirachi or Scizor (looks like it could be a semi-stall team). I hate recommending the now common Roserade but it may just be good on your team.
In my experience, most Jirachi just switch out of Heatran immediately in fear of Fire Blast. If they do Trick Choice Scarf, Heatran becomes a deadly revenge killer for later. As far as I know, Lava Plume gets almost all of the same KOs as Flamethrower. Fire Blast does get some extra KOs over Lava Plume, but I absolutely love the burn rate of Lava Plume. I've crippled so many Gyarados that switch into Heatran.

I don't think Toxic Spikes is necessary for this team. Jirachi can beat Blissey and most Bulky Waters 1-on-1. Most Suicune use Rest anyways. Plus, way too much of OU is immune to Toxic Spikes so it's usually a waste of time setting it up.
 

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