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The Most Complete and Comprehensive Guide to Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter asterat
- Start date
- Status
It's a great momentum stealer, forcing it to heal can really let a dangerous sweeper such as Kyu-B in.
Well, 105/55/55 defenses aren't doing it any favors (HP is good, but the rest bring that stat down). Stuff like Groudon or Palkia can switch into V-Create and OHKO +1 Darm (after hazards in Groudon's case) and others, like Giratina, can also switch in and status, phaze, perish trap, or what have you to it.. Also, Rain kind of jacks with its only STAB and turns it into a "slow to get going" Contrary user if you don't have a way to at least get rid of rain.
It is nasty in the sun though, so there's that. Not fun to be on the receiving end of on a weatherless or hail team (or Sun team without a counter to it's own fire shenanigans) without an Unaware check that has the right typing.
I think Entei might do Contrary better since it has higher speed and bulk with which to build and keep momentum. But that's just me.
It is nasty in the sun though, so there's that. Not fun to be on the receiving end of on a weatherless or hail team (or Sun team without a counter to it's own fire shenanigans) without an Unaware check that has the right typing.
I think Entei might do Contrary better since it has higher speed and bulk with which to build and keep momentum. But that's just me.
contrary darm isn't that great because of it's pretty awful bulk and because of it's mediocre special attack (which even when boosted by some sort of move like psycho boost.) meaning that darm will have a awful time breaking through any of the many dragon types in the tier and will be stopped cold in it's tracks by prankster nature power users and unaware pokemon with a typing resistant to fire (or in the rain.) (also rain hinders him too much to be viable.)
Hey, I'm just posting to alert people of the usefulness of low kick in BH. Fighting coverage is great for regigigas, slaking, steels, and rocks. They all have one thing in common: they weigh a ton so low kick often functions as close combat (without defense drops or low PP.) Steel types that don't weigh much like jirachi and skarmory get hit harder by coverage moves or won't take shit from it anyways, repsectively. Recently I've been trying this on the set KiP posted for tyranitar and it has proved quite useful against regigigas and friends.
Also I posted an RMT (link in signature) if anybody newer is looking to see how to put sets and shit together.
Also I posted an RMT (link in signature) if anybody newer is looking to see how to put sets and shit together.
I think you accidently added a 2nd link to this guide.
Oops! your right! I fixed it so it goes to the RMT now.
Looking at Low Kick from Regigigas (physically strongest all around good mon)
252 Atk Regigigas Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn: 168-198 (47.72 - 56.25%) -- 30.47% chance to 2HKO (negated by leftovers)
252 Atk Regigigas Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 226-268 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (almost always negated by Poison Heal)
252 Atk Regigigas Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 214-252 (52.97 - 62.37%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
Not going to lie, kind of disappointed at how close he comes while still failing.
I said in my message that sub is to stop imposter.
the issue is imposters nowadays basically always run skill swap which will ruin your day even behind a sub
interesting. i haven't played bh in a while, so feel free to alter the set. i used dragon pulse for a tad (to hit giratina and palkia) but that may not be so useful now. magic coat could also work
What exact characteristic does Empoleon have which attracts you to use it? Its physical bulk is atrovious by BH standards and its special bulk isn't great either. I know it resists empoleon's STAB, but what else does it do... I would probably just go with kyogre because all of its stats are better. The loss of a dragon resistance isn't as big of a deal as you think. It also comes with a fire resist outside of rain, meaning it takes on things like contrary reshiram much better. A sun STAB V-create probably OHKOes empoleon...
Jirachi (Dry Skin)
Jirachi @ Mail
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock/Magic Coat
- Heal Order
- Dragon Tail
I've been using this set recently and so far, it's a great counter to Palkia's. Most Palkia's have nothing to stop it besides the often unreliable Magma Storm. Knock Off is great to have because it's often a great switch in to a variety of threats which includes Lati@s, knocking off the Soul Dew can make it almost useless throughout the match. The spread and nature ensures that it will last very long against its most common threats to wall. The choice between Stealth Rock and Magic Coat is entirely up to your preference, while Stealth Rock is incredibly useful with Dragon Tail, Magic Coat allows it to wall new sets such as Mold Breaker Lugia with Shell Smash Stored Power. Last but not least, Dragon Tail is a mandatory part of this set which is the reason why it's able to stop so many threats and rack up entry hazard damage.
Lemme throw another set up here. There's actually quite a few who can run it, but I'll stick to the three who seem the best suited depending on circumstances.
Gengar, Froslass, or Giratina @ Shed Shell, Leftovers, or Lum Berry
Ability: Normalize
Skill Swap
Mean Look
Taunt/Encore
Perish Song
The choice of Pokemon depends on what you're doing. Gengar is the posterboy for the Normalize-Skill-Swap set, so you can pop him in and prey on your opponent expecting an immediate Skill Swap only for them to get trapped by Mean Look. Froslass is an option over Gengar as it has the same speed, slightly higher bulk, and, most importantly, immunity to residual damage from Hail, which matters if you're running a Hail team as there's no room to pack in recovery (as such, I recommend having Wish somewhere if you use this set). Giratina is, by far, the bulkiest option, but it's slower and tends to lure in Magic Bouncers which can be problematic if you use the wrong move.
You can likely expect how the set works just from the abilities. Trap an unwitting victim with Mean Look (because of Magic Bounce, this makes Shed Shell the preferred item). Then Skill Swap em if they're an attacker (or have Volturn) or Taunt if they're support. Once they're disabled, Perish Song. Normalize ensures your Ghost cannot be KOed by attacks unless they're packing Foresight, which gets stopped by Taunt or Encore. Taunt/Encore ensure that you can't be phazed, set-up upon, or that they can't Baton Pass to freedom.
Of course, this set is likely only going to work once as intended per battle. However, Perish Trapping the right victim can ensure victory regardless. And even then, the movepool is so disruptive that it's mere presence can make your opponent think twice about what they're doing when it switches in. Taunt shuts down support, Skill Swap shuts down Pokemon reliant on their abilities to do their job, like Poison Heal Gigas or most Magic Bouncers while also effectively ending any offensive momentum, and the constant threat of getting Perish Trapped can hinder an opponent's ability to set-up.
If you're curious, I was looking at the Normalize Gengar set and thinking "You know, there has to be a better way to leverage this gimmick." About ten minutes later, this set was born and it's been quite effective when I've used it.
Ability: Normalize
Skill Swap
Mean Look
Taunt/Encore
Perish Song
The choice of Pokemon depends on what you're doing. Gengar is the posterboy for the Normalize-Skill-Swap set, so you can pop him in and prey on your opponent expecting an immediate Skill Swap only for them to get trapped by Mean Look. Froslass is an option over Gengar as it has the same speed, slightly higher bulk, and, most importantly, immunity to residual damage from Hail, which matters if you're running a Hail team as there's no room to pack in recovery (as such, I recommend having Wish somewhere if you use this set). Giratina is, by far, the bulkiest option, but it's slower and tends to lure in Magic Bouncers which can be problematic if you use the wrong move.
You can likely expect how the set works just from the abilities. Trap an unwitting victim with Mean Look (because of Magic Bounce, this makes Shed Shell the preferred item). Then Skill Swap em if they're an attacker (or have Volturn) or Taunt if they're support. Once they're disabled, Perish Song. Normalize ensures your Ghost cannot be KOed by attacks unless they're packing Foresight, which gets stopped by Taunt or Encore. Taunt/Encore ensure that you can't be phazed, set-up upon, or that they can't Baton Pass to freedom.
Of course, this set is likely only going to work once as intended per battle. However, Perish Trapping the right victim can ensure victory regardless. And even then, the movepool is so disruptive that it's mere presence can make your opponent think twice about what they're doing when it switches in. Taunt shuts down support, Skill Swap shuts down Pokemon reliant on their abilities to do their job, like Poison Heal Gigas or most Magic Bouncers while also effectively ending any offensive momentum, and the constant threat of getting Perish Trapped can hinder an opponent's ability to set-up.
If you're curious, I was looking at the Normalize Gengar set and thinking "You know, there has to be a better way to leverage this gimmick." About ten minutes later, this set was born and it's been quite effective when I've used it.
Here's a fun duo I've been using to decent effect in the current metagame:
Terrakion @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
If something passes a sub to this thing it becomes a complete monster. Close Combat means Gigas will be reluctant to switch in and take a spore, meaning that if Gigas is the only anti-spore they have the opposition will be in a very, very bad position. Shell Smash makes it all the more fearsome, and as everyone who's ever played OU knows, a +2 Terrakion is no joke. The only downside to the set is Stone Edge's iffy 80 accuracy, but sadly it's needed to dent giratina the best it can. The only issue is Imposter, which brings me to my next Poke.
Golurk @ Leftovers
Trait: Vital Spirit
Impish Nature
- Gastro Acid / Worry Seed
- Earthquake
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
Aside from walling Terrak, this Golurk is simply the best answer to Gigas in the tier. Taking a pathetic 15% from Dragon Tail, with a click of Gastro Acid it can easily stop it from sweeping. It can deal reasonably well with other spore users as well, since its typing lacks any overly common weakness other than Ice. Sacred Fire isn't really a mandatory move, so consider it a free slot to put whatever you wish.
Terrakion @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
If something passes a sub to this thing it becomes a complete monster. Close Combat means Gigas will be reluctant to switch in and take a spore, meaning that if Gigas is the only anti-spore they have the opposition will be in a very, very bad position. Shell Smash makes it all the more fearsome, and as everyone who's ever played OU knows, a +2 Terrakion is no joke. The only downside to the set is Stone Edge's iffy 80 accuracy, but sadly it's needed to dent giratina the best it can. The only issue is Imposter, which brings me to my next Poke.
Golurk @ Leftovers
Trait: Vital Spirit
Impish Nature
- Gastro Acid / Worry Seed
- Earthquake
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
Aside from walling Terrak, this Golurk is simply the best answer to Gigas in the tier. Taking a pathetic 15% from Dragon Tail, with a click of Gastro Acid it can easily stop it from sweeping. It can deal reasonably well with other spore users as well, since its typing lacks any overly common weakness other than Ice. Sacred Fire isn't really a mandatory move, so consider it a free slot to put whatever you wish.
Kl4ng
The set can't wall SD sweeper regigigas with the ice punch. I would probably use aromatherapy or knock off in the last slot to deal with status or cripple foes. That set will be a lot better on honedge (provided it has usable stats (golurk's are medicore anyways)) because it will resist ice. Additionally psychic resist etc. means it can switch in on mewtwo, lugia, and giratina with ease. A lot like playful's tyraintar this generation. But additionally it will hard wall that terrakion. Shadow claw is probably the best it can do for an attack, but the coverage compensates for the shitty power.
Additionally: what do all of you guys think about the new pokemon and their possible effects on balanced hackmons?? I'm pretty sure Xerneas will be mainstream with excellent typing and a very high BST (most likely 680.) As mentioned above Honedge could see some use in defensive roles, provided it gets good stats (If Houndoom's stats were all a little better it would be usable in BH for example.) Additionally, mega mewtwo X and Y both look pretty sick. While they can't hold items, sets could definitely still work. Ferrothorn's immunity to spore is also amazing, giving it free vital spirit all the time in a way. Shaymin-Sky has the same effect. This mean you can run other things for abilities and still not be spored. It isn't always as good as magic bounce because you can be phazed (especially in Skymins case) as well as being hazard bait, it is a very beneficial change for all grass types. I wonder if mega venusaur will have good enough stats to pull it off?? Also while Torterra currently is outclassed by Groudon, immunity to spore may grant it a niche. Ground resistance and water neutralities may aid him in this endeavor. Other grass types like Cradily might edge their way into BH as well. (Worry seed/recover/dragon tail/filler)(unaware sand?). They can aslo use spore freely because if it is bounced there is no effect.
The set can't wall SD sweeper regigigas with the ice punch. I would probably use aromatherapy or knock off in the last slot to deal with status or cripple foes. That set will be a lot better on honedge (provided it has usable stats (golurk's are medicore anyways)) because it will resist ice. Additionally psychic resist etc. means it can switch in on mewtwo, lugia, and giratina with ease. A lot like playful's tyraintar this generation. But additionally it will hard wall that terrakion. Shadow claw is probably the best it can do for an attack, but the coverage compensates for the shitty power.
Additionally: what do all of you guys think about the new pokemon and their possible effects on balanced hackmons?? I'm pretty sure Xerneas will be mainstream with excellent typing and a very high BST (most likely 680.) As mentioned above Honedge could see some use in defensive roles, provided it gets good stats (If Houndoom's stats were all a little better it would be usable in BH for example.) Additionally, mega mewtwo X and Y both look pretty sick. While they can't hold items, sets could definitely still work. Ferrothorn's immunity to spore is also amazing, giving it free vital spirit all the time in a way. Shaymin-Sky has the same effect. This mean you can run other things for abilities and still not be spored. It isn't always as good as magic bounce because you can be phazed (especially in Skymins case) as well as being hazard bait, it is a very beneficial change for all grass types. I wonder if mega venusaur will have good enough stats to pull it off?? Also while Torterra currently is outclassed by Groudon, immunity to spore may grant it a niche. Ground resistance and water neutralities may aid him in this endeavor. Other grass types like Cradily might edge their way into BH as well. (Worry seed/recover/dragon tail/filler)(unaware sand?). They can aslo use spore freely because if it is bounced there is no effect.
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Main thread needs a bump anyway.
Giratina (Poison Heal)
Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Rapid Spin/Roost
- Simple Beam
- Dragon Claw
All teams need to have a good Shift Gear Poison Heal Regigigas counter, this set is a very consistent one. Simple Beam is used to cripple status orb users such as Regigigas and Ho-Oh, forcing them to switch or be killed by status. it is able to Spore Imposters, and it can act as a very good spinner. Dragon Claw is used instead of Dragon Pulse because it has way higher PP (8 more) and it stops Imposters from damaging it badly. The only problem with this set vs Imposters is that the Imposter can Simple Beam your Giratina which will damage it.
Simple Beam has 8 more PP than Gastro Acid/Worry Seed and a sometimes very useful effect of crippling a Contrary Pokemon more than other ability changing moves. However, if one doesn't care about the additional PP and doesn't want to give the opponent a possible advantage, Gastro Acid is the better option.
Well, if PP is not the problem, i do believe Wory Seed is better than Gastro Acid if you are affraid of it being Bounced back to you, and because generally you will use against a poisoned Gigas anyway, so turning it immune to sleep doesn't matter.
In the end it's a matter of niches:
-PP
-I just want nullify my opponent
-I don't want to be nullified instead
In the end it's a matter of niches:
-PP
-I just want nullify my opponent
-I don't want to be nullified instead
- Status