Other The Generational Titans of Doubles

[Mizuhime]

(not my actual views on Landorus-t)

Throughout Doubles long and storied history many Pokemon have consistently found theirselves at the top of the mountain in terms of viability and general usefulness, this is a thread used to discuss exactly those. Some basic rules before we started however. A Pokemon should have been in more than a single generation to be considered a titan of Doubles, so something like Rillaboom is yet to be considered as once. The other is a Pokemon should have actually been in the tier longer than it was banned from it to be considered a titan. Jirachi is a good example of a Pokemon that was banned but still was a menace while it was there, while Marshadow, although very good, was banned for way longer than it was allowed.

I'll get us started with a couple of the more obvious choices and one of my personal favourites.



Landorus-Therian has been at the forefront of of the Doubles Tier since it was released in 2012. Tier 2 in Black White and Tier 1 in both XY and SM, and not seeing any slow in usage until SS where it's only in Tier 5 on the viability ranks. Landorus-Therian brings a unique combination of natural bulk, raw power, a decent speed tier, great typing and access to the best move in the game, stealth rock that no other Pokemon can really come close to achieving. On top of the combination previously mentioned, if and when Landorus does come back this generation it will now have access to an actual Flying-Type move in Tera Blast, something it's never previously had.






Amoonguss is a funny little guy. It hasn't been the biggest problem in any generation its ever been in, but it always remains within the top 3 tiers of viability....for the past 13 years.

Amoonguss is arguably one of the two best support Pokemon we've ever has the pleasure of dealing with in Doubles. The ability to redirect attacks, access to a 100% accurate sleep move in Spore, very good defensive typing and a great ability to pair with that typing and now it even has the ability to heal your team. Amoonguss has always been one of the more reliable checks to Trick Room given its speed tier but has also been one of the biggest enablers that the tier has ever seen via redirection. Crazy to think that Amoonguss could be in a conversation for the Historic Titans of DOU but here we are.




Good Ol' Tyranitar. Never broken or top tier in any sense of the words, but has always been around to bring a sense of reliability to any team that has used it well. Since Doubles got its start all the way in BW, Tyranitar has been a tiered Pokemon and it would have been tiered if Doubles existed before that as well. Ever since 1999, Tyranitar has proven to be one of the most consistent Pokemon to ever exist. Despite it's poor defensive typing, it has very good natural bulk that's boosted further by Sand Storm and the pure offensive power to overcome the negative aspects of being a Rock-Type. As far as general utility goes Tyranitar provides a lot to teams. Stealth Rock, a way to deal with the plethora of Psychic and Ghost-Type Pokemon the tier has historically had, as well as the aforementioned Sand Stream ability. Providing the extra damage chip at the end of turn is never a bad thing while also giving your partner Pokemon from Excadrill in BW to Dracovish in SS the ability to overcome their middling speed makes them even more threatening and that's why Tyranitar has always managed to be around.



So now let's share some Pokemon that are also considered Generational Titans. Some Pokemon that have always been a meta relevant threat or Problem you should account for while building. Pokemon that stands the test of time. What Pokemon coming back do we think may NOW be considered a titan when they're reintroduced. Do we think Whimiscott could not be considered one with the new speed mechanics? Do we think Rillaboom will be as good in SV as it was in SS?​

 

[Commander Beta]

​

Diancie is a personal favourite of mine, but I think it's not biased to consider her a titan of DOU, while it's Mega form has a small niche in XY and SM, it is her base form that is the true menace.

Diancie is the face of Trick Room in every generation it appears in, especially Semi-TR, getting better with every generation. It's great bulk means that it can easily set up TR with minor support, and afterwards proceed to bombard the opponent with ceaseless Diamond Storms. While it's typing is not ideal, hitting Diancie with a super effective move is not for the faint of heart, as she is synonymous with Weakness Policy, easily living almost any one hit which isn´t steel type, and that is before we consider Diamond Storm´s Defense boost, which if obtained in large enough number, make her virtually unkillable on the physical side, a boost which became better in SM, rising to +2 Def, and which would end up increasing her offensive power too, after SS gifted her Body Press.

 

[Noelle]

Volcanion

Volcanion has only been available in 3 generations (XY, SM, SS) but its been consistently high tier in every single one of them. Its meta defining in XY, A staple of semiroom teams in SS, and while SM is probably its worst generation, its still ranked at tier 3 on the viability rankings and is still a solid pokemon, its just harder to justify due to Incineroar/Tapu Fini taking up the Fire and Water-type slots more often. 2 4x resistances and an immunity to the common offensive types of Ice, Fire and Water make Volcanion a consistent bulky Water-type that's more than capable of being the glue that holds many teams together. It has a solid Special Attack stat and the high base power STAB move Steam Eruption as well, allowing it to have a good offensive presence alongside its unique defensive profile. Volcanion has a decent amount of moveset variety as well, but most of its sets do largely the same thing anyway. Its main flaws are a middling Special Defense stat and awkward Speed tier, but these can be worked around with Assault Vest and speed control like Trick Room respectively. Its speed tier actually works in its favor in a way, as it allows it to work on both Trick Room and Tailwind teams, further contributing to its splashability (pun intended).


Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini has only been available in 2 generations, but its been top tier in both of them. It was a meta defining threat in SM, and in SS it recieved 3 votes to move up to Tier 1 on the viability rankings in the last VR slate, but didn't move up due to a tie. Tapu Fini's deep movepool, great defensive stats and typing allow it to fit on many teams with lots of moveset variety. Tapu Fini is not only top tier in both SM and SS, but its arguably necessary to the balance of both tiers due to its ability to keep Pokémon that would otherwise be broken (Kommo-o in SM, Urshifu/Pheromosa in SS) as well as passively checking Pokémon that rely on status like Amoonguss and to a lesser extent Thundurus (There are a lot of reasons Prankster Thundurus fell off to be fair, but Misty terrain certainly contributed to it). Despite only being available in 2 generations so far, its been a defining piece of both of them, and is arguably a necessary presence in both generations.


Kingdra

This nomination wasn't my idea, but I agree with it and no one else has posted it. Kingdra has been at least viable since BW, and is a defining piece of the rain archetype in almost every generation. Rain has never been oppressively good in any generation, but its consistently been a viable option, and that has a lot to do with Kingdra. Its stats arent amazing, but they're good enough to take advantage of Swift Swim and do good damage with rain boosted Water-type attacks. It has a good defensive typing as well with passable bulk. Kingdra is one of those pokemon thats just barely good enough to work, but it IS good enough, and it gets results. In conclusion, Kingdra to 1, I will not be taking criticism at this time.

I may make more nominations later but I like that this post is all Water-types.​

 

[Glimmer]

GENESECT
This mythical has been viable since its debut generation Gen Five with unrivaled set variety. Choice Scarf, Expert Belt, Life Orb, Choice Band, Assault Vest all being good to great in every tier it shows up in. Its absurd movepool bolstered with good offenses on both sides, a nice speed tier, and STAB U-turn as a bonus. Its consistent checks are also very limited and exploitable. Its checks being weak to Stealth Rock or hating the chip (Heatran, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike for example) makes its job way easier and makes Genesect way more threatening of a mon. Outside of these select few Fire-types and Assault Vest Fighting-types Genesect threatens out near everything due to its unpredictability, power, and consistent value. Its pivotting abilities and speed control and Steel-typing makes it quite splashable in most team styles as well. Download also adds to its power and combos with the fact that a lot of Genesect are mixed, so it will benefit from the attack raise very well. These traits make Genesect a force to be reckoned with and in my opinion it definitely deserves a titan slot.


KYUREM-BLACK
How did a box-art legendary end up in DOU? Was it that bad? Well yes but actually no. Kyurem-Black is consistently a high tier Pokemon across generations, due to its naturally absurd bulk, Dragon-typing, and 170 Attack, and BoltBeam combo. The Ice-Dragon typing especially came in handy in the Genies meta, as it was bulky enough to live most if not all hits thrown at it from the genies bar a Defiant boosted Thundurus Superpower. Even though it needed to run Special Attacks for most of its life time, its passable Special Attack makes up decently for it. It also utilised Z-Moves greatly, as Z-Freeze Shock is an insanely powerful move. Its bulk with Assault Vest should also not be underestimated. While keeping its very important moveslots, Kyurem-Black with an Assault Vest can make it live hits from things as ridiculous as Life Orb Naganadel Draco Meteor or +2 Celesteela Flash Cannon. It also gained Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear in SS, giving it a Physical Ice Stab option and a broken setup move, which it takes great advantage of with its ridiculous stats. Overall, Kyurem-Black is a consistently good stat stick that adapts to metagames well and takes advantage of them quite nicely.


THUNDURUS-INCARNATE
Jeez this really is a generation 5 mons post huh? Jokes aside, Thundurus was a dominating force for 2 generations straight. Even though it was subpar in the later generations due to Prankster and Thunder Wave both being nerfed, and Misty Terrain existing really hurt Thundurus. But either way, Thundurus was a menace in Generation 5 and 6. Especially in Generation 5 where Electric-types weren't even immune to Paralysis, the only thing Thundurus cared about was Ground-types which it could simply slot in Hidden Power Ice for. Electric is also a really good offensive typing and combining that with its nightmarish distruption capabilities makes Thundurus a demon of a Pokemon. And most attempts of stopping this distruption were either foolish, or temporary. Redirection (this only includes Amoonguss in this context) is easily stopped by Taunt and Amoonguss can be killed by an offensive set carrying Hidden Power Flying. Lum Berry and Substitute are mostly temporary fixes to the big issue, as if you are not Kyurem-Black it is hard to keep up your Substitute and Lum Berry is only one use. Even though Thundurus is less consistent than the previous two, its reign over two major tiers cannot be overlooked.​

 

[Fangame10]

Porygon2

This is a mon that always flies under everyone's radar. With its very high bulk thanks to the evolite item and reliable recovery with Recover and its Normal typing having only one weakness, Porygon2 can get Trick Room up prehaps more easily compared to any other trick room setter aside from Cresselia. But unlike Cresselia, Porygon2 has the Download ability, potentially allowing it to get a free special attack boost in addition to its diverse special movepool including both thunderbolt and ice beam, allowing it to deal damage while tanking it.

Porygon2 sits comfortbly as a tier 3 pokemon in gens 6-7 and tier 2 in gen 8. Porygon2 has always been a perfect choice for semi-trick-room because it is so bulky and easy to fit on any team. It even functions well against other trick room teams, tanking the heavy hitters that trick room normally use and turning off trick room with its own. This even makes it a decent choice even for non trick room teams.

However, I feel if porygon2 returned to gen 9 its bulk would not be enough against the massive power creep we have seen from pokemon this generation like Chi-Yu, Iron Hands and Chien-Pao. Still, Porygon2 is an icon of trick room teams and counter trick room teams in doubles ou so I feel it should be recognized here!

 

[Mizuhime]

There's also a document that I believe Yoda2798 made which illustrates the viability based on tiers within the viability of some Pokemon throughout history to guide the discussion

 

[Idyll]

gonna necro this... because I can!!!!

Metagross

Metagross has definitely had one of the more storied careers in DOU, as throughout time it's established footholds in pretty much every DOU format, including the two older generations of ADV and DPP whose scenes only emerged quite recently. In the interest of discussing Metagross's eventual place in each metagame in a logically sequential manner, I'll be taking about the Generations in chronological order, rather than the order in which their DOU scenes emerged, to talk about what it's gained and lost throughout each turn of a Generation.

ADV and DPP both feature Metagross at, without a doubt, its best; currently standing as a Tier 1 option for both formats, Metagross stands as an immensely menacing attacker thanks to its staggering offensive presence and a defensive profile that makes it hard to deal with. While DPP's introduction of the physical/special split did give Metagross more offensive techs, both iterations of Metagross regardless play quite similarly as they aim to leverage their defensive Steel typing and high power to make most trades unfair. Access to a then unnerfed Explosion is perhaps one of the most impactful aspects of its kit, as this essentially lets players reset the board on their terms and forces opponents to play cautiously as long as they don't have lethal on Metagross to prevent Explosion; Metagross's ADV sets are essentially guaranteed to run the move, and, while DPP's increase in usable Steels / Ghosts have relegated it to being a mere option, it's still a viable option there to be respected for its game-deciding impact.

BW sees Metagross taking a step down from dominance, primarily because of metagame reasons—BW DOU simply has a plethora of top threats that make its bulk and defensive typing harder to leverage, as the metagame notably features strong Gem-boosted attacks, powerful Water-type-centric archetypes in rain and Jellicent SemiRooms, and more meta ways to hit Steel super effectively. In addition to this, Explosion also no longer halves the Defense of foes, making it significantly weaker and essentially making it unusable. Still, Metagross enjoys a top spot in BW despite the shift in playstyle; while it can no longer be played as an aggressive bruiser, it instead enjoys a place in the metagame as a centerpiece for bulkier offenses, being a threat that can systematically break down opposing teams behind a Substitute and with proper support. While its inherent characteristics are not as fundamentally strong in the BW metagame, it's still definitely strong enough to make it one of the better buildarounds the format has on offer.

XY is arguably its weakest Generation by modern standards. The loss of Steel's resistances to Dark and Ghost made it less valuable as a Pokemon overall, as a lot of its power lied in how difficult it was to break and it now has two new weaknesses, particularly to two key types as well with Knock Off being newly buffed and Mega Gengar being a notable XY terrorist. Despite the introduction of Metagross's Mega Evolution, the dominance of Mega Gengar and Volcanion simply makes Mega Metagross too much of a liability. Metagross's weakness in XY is historically glaring as, while it enjoys well-regarded positions in every other DOU format, XY is the one format in which it is not ranked in the Viability Rankings entirely. Still, Metagross did enjoy a career in XY while it was the current Generation; its base 110 Speed did let it outrun Mega Kangaskhan, its Steel-typing really handy for Sylveon, and its access to Ice Punch meant it was a physical attacker Landorus-T couldn't just simply beat (though almost all Lando-T in early- to mid-CG XY were Choice Scarf, anyway, with AV and Rocky Helmet being late XY / Modern XY developments). A more important fact, though, was that Volcanion only released later into XY's life as a CG, which meant people did not really adapt to it immediately nor did they play well with it, and people were also generally not as high into / good at playing with Mega Gengar at the time. To be clear, Mega Metagross still wasn't a top threat even at the time and was far from being one (and regular Metagross was essentially never used at all), but with XY being the one blemish of Metagross's career, it would fair to give it some credit and mention that it did still enjoy some relevance in the format for a period of time.

SM sees Metagross back to winning ways as it has now cemented itself as the undisuputed best Mega the format has, with some players of modern SM even calling for it to get banned. Mega Metagross in SM is definitely a much bigger beast than it was in XY—its base 110 Speed is immediately calculated and it now has access to actual Ground coverage. More importantly, however, its biggest competition is gone; both Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Gengar are banned from the format, which leaves Mega Metagross as the undisputed best Mega Evolution in the format. The banning of Mega Gengar is a big fundamental difference of SM from XY, in particular, as this meant that Mega Metagross will no longer easily get isolated and picked off. Now, Mega Metagross essentially represents what is essentially the biggest statstick SM has; with a menacing 145 Attack stat with Tough Claws-boosted attacks, Ice / Ground super effective coverage, Steel-typing backed by 80 / 150 / 110 bulk, and a relatively high base 110 Speed, Mega Metagross is essentially the closest you can get to a perfectly designed Pokemon with a neutral position in a metagame. While Mega Salamence shares the same BST, its stat-spread is not as efficient and being a Dragon / Flying type just gives it exploitable weaknesses to Ice and Fairy. Mega Metagross is just so generally usable in any SM archetype you can imagine that it is without a doubt a top 3 Pokemon in the format.

SS sees Metagross go back to its old ways with Mega Evolution not in the Generation, but this format is also proof that you can teach an old dog new tricks. Back to its role as a tank 'n spank bruiser, this is the only format which features regular Metagross utilizing its now-Ghost- and Dark-weak typing primarily in a defensive manner. Despite this, Metagross currently stands as a viable utility pick in SS due to fulfilling various niches at the same time; its Steel / Psychic typing lets is answer a unique set of threats in Rillaboom, Diancie, Kyurem-B, and PsychicSpam, while its being a strong physical attacker with Clear Body lets it check CM Tapu Fini without fear of Intimidate. It could even set Stealth Rocks, and often did so for teams as its moveset was relatively lenient. The introduction of Steel Roller, in particular, revitalized Metagross as a Pokemon, as while removing Terrains doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things, Metagross being granted access to an accurate 130 BP STAB move does; despite the conditionality of Steel Roller as it requires a set Terrain to use, the move is still ultimately invaluable as it's essentially a Draco Meteor / Overheat without a stat reduction, which leaves Metagross still threatening with its other moves still at full power while also being able to use Steel Roller again without drawback if a Terrain ever gets set again (perhaps deliberately by its own trainer, as well). Though it is no longer the best of the best as it is now relegated to a utility pick compared to its days as an uncontestable bruiser, SS Metagross still enjoyed a history of success and had its own time in the limelight, its current Tier 3 ranking being very much well earned.

Throughout the many DOU Generations, Metagross has enjoyed a history of success. It is currently Tier 1 in ADV, DPP, and SM, Tier 2 in BW, and Tier 3 in SS—and while it is currently unranked in XY, it did still enjoy a period of success in the format, its Substitute set established by MajorBowman very much an icon of its time. It could be even fair to say that Mega Metagross is one ban away from being a top threat in XY, as while its design is uniquely positioned to take on the rest of the metagame, its lopsided matchup to one key threat in Mega Gengar is the one thing holding it back. Metagross's design of being a high-powered yet also defensively resilient bruiser is one that has stood the test of time, and its transformation into additionally being a blazing fast threat on top of that has lead it to having a dominant reputation in SM—overall, Metagross definitely has the right to being a Generational Titan of Doubles, being present in the Generation doubles was introduced to the franchise and having a history of success in every format thereafter.