The Desert's Mirage: A Decieving Sandstorm Team

[TheValkyries]

Well after I had much fun playing with a slightly quirky Rain Dance team I decided that I love Weather effects. Like no joke, I might marry one. Nothing is quite as fun as a little effect that powers up your entire team to monstrous levels.

So, after trying all out offense with the rain, I tried making a SandStall team... and I rather quickly got terribly bored of the slow pace and decided to scrap that all together and make this nasty little bad boy of a team. Don't let the offensive powerhouses fool you. This team is Bulky as all hell. And despite x4 weaknesses on nearly all of them, and the plethora of counters to them in today's metagame, they all have their secret weapons ready to take you out.

~Team at a glance~

The Team:

*Changes

Hippowdon

@ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 188 HP/ 252 Atk/ 68 Spe
~Earthquake
~Crunch
~Ice fang
~Stone Edge

To kick off the Sandstorm I use the standard Sand Streaming lead poke. But now with a twist. His choice banded mightitude can get quite a few surprise OHKOs on many leads, and can really start this team on an offensive foot. Able to deal with many threatening leads with his STAB EQ for Infernape and Metagross, along with a Crunch that can OHKO the very common Azelf lead. Ice Fang for extra type coverage and for pesky Gliscors, and Sleep Talk to allow this large hippo to take a spore from Smeargle leads and proceed to unleash general, unadulterated power. (Much kudos to jc104 for the idea)

Rhyperior

@Passho Berry
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 244 HP/ 16 Atk/ 68 Def/ 180 SpD
Nature: Careful (+ SpD/ - SpA)
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Megahorn
~Swords Dance

With the sheer amount of Tyranitars in OU I'm completely shocked that not many people carry this absolutely brutal monster. This EV distribution and nature give this manly man of manhood a gigantic 432 HP, 320 Atk, 313 Def, and a highly formidable 315 SpD in the sand. With the Solid Rock ability he can switch into many x2 super effective moves without fear. Hell, with the Passho Berry he only takes 85% damage maximum from a fully offensive Gyarados's Waterfall. That's including a Dragon Dance boost to Gyara's attack too, by the way. Without it it's more around 56%. With Stone-Edge OHKOing Gyarados, this set becomes an absolutely fantastic surprise Gyarados counter. But enough about his defensive capabilities, let's get back to the fact that, this guy has 320 Atk with only 16 EVs?!?!?! Seriously... I don't understand how this is UU. Stone Edge/Earthquake/Megahorn provide complete unresisted coverage.

It's worth noting that Rock Polish is really not viable because the EVs here are valuable and can't be wasted on speed, and let's face it 232 speed after a rock polish just isn't worth it. So instead I use Swords Dance, whic doubles an already massive attack stat to a purely monstrous 640. Taking into account that Rhyperior can still out tank many, many, many things in the sand adding that much power into the equation just makes it insanely deadly.

God, I love this set. Have I mentioned it shouldn't be UU?


Latias

@ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+ SpA/ - Atk)
~Surf
~Thunderbolt
~Dragon Pulse
~Draco Meteor

With the addition of this set, the team has become considerably more powerful. Latias can take on any water type Rhyperior doesn't catch, And can also take on enemy Salamence, one hitting them with Dragon Pulse. Surf is a standard for any choice set providing good typing and few resistances. Thunderbolt takes care of many Pesky water types that attempt to plague this team. Dragon Pulse gives a very reliable, yet powerful STAB, and Draco Meteor takes on everything else.

Scizor

@ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP/ 88 Atk/ 176 SpD
Nature: Adamant (+ Atk/ - SpA)
~Swords Dance
~Bullet Punch
~Brick Break
~Roost

We have now reached the portion of the team that laughs in the face of your clever type advantages, and powerful counters, and proceeds to tear them down. Thanks to this Occa berry, and EV spread this little beauty is rarely taken down by a fire move, And tends to get a free Swords Dance when they bring in their "x4" super-effective fire user in. This set laughs in the face of Magnezone's HP Fire and takes it out with a Brick Break and Bullet Punch if Swords Dance is not up. However, not many people run Scizor counters which is quite odd, considering his power. They usually try to take it out with a multi-purpose revenger that carries earthquake, which tends to be a 3HKO, provided I don't Roost off some of the damage. Speaking of roost, did I mention Skarmory yet? Because quite a few times Skarmory has been able to set up a spike stall war on me after my Empoleon is dead. However, Scizor's ability to roost off any entry damage just PP stalled the Skarm right back, as did Gliscor's Roost. And with my entire team doing at least neutral damage to the steel bird (Except Hippowdon, the slacker) we can slowly chip away at him as he tries to out stall this abnormally bulky powerhouse of a team.

Where was I? Oh right, Scizor's power. Swords Dance + Bullet Punch Has saved my ass many times over, and is easy to see why it's so common.


Gliscor

@ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/ 40 Atk/ 216 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+ Spe/ - SpA)
~Swords Dance
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Roost

After using this "Dancing Tank" set from Smogon on my SandStall team, I realized how truly powerful Sand Veil is as an ability. This tiny set, with the weakest Atk stat on my team at 236, it can and has 6-0'd teams before. And that's just ridiculous. The amount of times I've seen an Explosion or Self Destruct try to take me out and miss allowing me to continue a sweep is almost comical. This set is guaranteed a Swords Dance because of the Yache Berry. Every water type tries to Ice Beam this set, just because they can, and completely skip over the STAB x2 Water move that would do more damage. All other attacks just simply don't do enough damage. And even then, many that do will miss because of the Sand Veil. This set is just powerful and resilient, simple as that, and is my go to guy for a late game sweep.


Tyranitar

@Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
~Dragon Dance
~Stone Edge
~Crunch
~Fire Punch

With the increasing popularity of ScarfTar sets and the amount of switches that TTar causes in general, DDTar is the perfect example of what this team does. It lures in the switch giving him a free stat boost, and then abuses the new found power to crush teams. After a single DD He becomes as fast as a ScarfTar and as powerful as a BandTar, while not being limited to a single move. Babiri Handles TTar's most dangerous threat in Scizor's Bullet Punch. He can take the famous priority move like a champ and return the favor with an OHKOing Fire Punch. Fire Punch gives him the option to hit steel types like Skarmory and Forretress for considerable amounts of damage, which makes him a fearsome beast to try and stall with either of the two, especially since at +2 attack he can 2HKO the metal bird. and with STABs on Stone Edge and Crunch he can live up to the fearsome name he's made for himself. Let's also not forget that he has 281 Def and 304 SpD in the Sand, which means he can take a beating, and still dish out the damage.



Well that's the team. I hope you enjoy it as much as I, because I have way too much fun with this team.


P.S. This message brought to you by the Rhyperiors for OU Campaign.
​

 

[Starbuck]

That's a pretty solid team, but I see some rather big problems with Gyarados, Infernape and Scizor.
Also, I know you touched on this in your descriptions, but I don't like having a complete lack of special muscle once Empoleon goes down. I hate to say this because I like Tyranitar, but he doesn't seem to play a huge role in your team's synergy. You may want to swap him for another special sweeper who can work alongside Empoleon.

Rate my team at http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71555

 

[Korali]

I'll do you one better.

Switch Tyranitar to a Scarfitar for a good revenge killer, and replace Rhyperior, who is horribly underclassed in OU for a better special sweeper like a Rotom-A

I'd also suggest having a Spiker/Toxic Spiker/Rapid Spinner, as it compliments SS teams wonderfully.

 

[jc104]

Rock Wrecker is an awful move in that it leaves you an absolute sitting duck for a turn while the opponent sets up whatever they want. Instead I would consider the use of Substitute, to ease prediction among other things. It will also be quite tricky to break in Sandstorm, and as such may grant you free kills.

The other option is to run SR on your Rhyperior in the last slot, allowing you to change the rather ineffective lead Hippowdon. Though I would recommend looking at other leads since you already have sandstorm from TTar, and have an outrageous weakness to water-type moves, you could consider a lead CB Hippowdon to fit in with the theme of deception, since this will net many surprise KOs in the lead position.

Hippowdon @ choice band
Adamant nature
188hp 252atk 68 spe
-EQ
-Crunch
-Ice fang/Stone Edge
-Slack Off/Sleep talk

This is to say the least a little crazy. The first thing people willl be thinking is why on earth it has speed EVs. Well these let you outrun Swampert and Machamp leads, although they could perceivably be placed in HP. Swampert is 2HKOed much of the time by EQ, although the main function here is to get some good damage and force it out. Machamp will take around 80% from a CB EQ, putting it out of commission, which is very valuable at the moment. The true effectiveness of this lead though is that it beats Azelf in one turn as it taunts (crunch + sandstorm,) OHKOes metagross, beats Infernape (EQ + sandstorm,) beats Jirachi, taking trick if necessary, OHKOes Shuca Heatran, and has a good chance to OHKO Gliscor with Ice fang. Sleep talk is listed because it will let you beat Smeargle assuming it spores, but this is not an assumption you should make.

Just a few ideas. Good luck.

 

[ginganinja]

well I will give a quick rate. perosnally Gliscor is not a good SD'er SS. Also remember that not every pokemon needs to be resistant to Sandstorm on a SS team.

I don't like Rhyperior too much in OU but since you would like to keep him the I ould suggest Substitute over Rock Wreacker. I agree that its a cool move but just like Hyper Beam, the recharge turn is just not worth it. Infernape can come in while Rhyperior is charging and Nasty Plot up and then OHKO your entire team. Gyaradoes and offensive suicune can do this as well.

I think that Magnetzone should be used over Empoloen as it trpas scizor which annoys T-tar and Rhyperior, and also handles skarmory. Its electric attacks also allow it to somewhat check gyarados as well.

Now you obviously have a weekness to infernape etc as stated above. Therefore I think that a Mixed Jirachi should be used over Scizor so it is harder for you to be work down by stall. I suggest you change Gliscor to a mmore defensive set as it is your main check to fighting types.

Have a Nice Day!

 

[googlyeyesultra]

This team looks like it is going to have quite a bit of trouble dealing with bulky waters like vaporeon. Your only good switch in to water moves, empoleon, is walled by bulky waters. Toxic spikes might help a little bit to deal with those. Consider fitting a roserade in somewhere as it can set up Tspikes which empoleon really appreciates and resists both water and fighting (although it isn't all that bulky). Furthermore roserade's leafstorm will scare away most water types.

In addition, you might want to test out the agility/subpetaya empoleon set. I'm not sure if it'll work better for your team, but it tends to be a stronger set in my opinion.

Like the others I recommend switching rock wrecker for substitute, or perhaps just switching Rhyperior for something else.

Also scizor is much more common than dugtrio: run babiri berry over shuca on tyranitar.

 

[BreTran]

I run a sandstorm team similar to this and instead of running DDtar and perior, i run tran and a mix tar. I think a mix tar with expert belt would be so much more useful on this team running: thunder bolt/ ice beam/ Dark Pulse/ superpower. And you should switch rhyperior to tran to have another special attker

 

[TheValkyries]

*Warning* Incoming Wall of Text *Warning*


@Starbuck:
1)While there is a lack of Special Power, I've come to realize that I don't really need it. Skarmory is only a temporary nuisance, as Whirlwind + Spikes and/or Stealth Rock just ends up leaving me with Scizor and Gliscor, thanks to their Roosts. And quite frankly it's all I need, It has happened before where I'm down 4-2 and a whirlwind knocks out my other poke forcing me to bring in Gliscor, and I usually end up coming out on top.

2)As for the counters you mentioned I have a few thoughts...

A) I'm going to give Rhyperior a Passho Berry, to keep with the common theme of abusing half powered berry effects. That one change allows Rhyperior to take 84% max damage from a fully offensive Gyarados's Waterfall. And that's with a DD boost on the Gyarados, by the way. Without it he's pushing more around 56%.

B)Infernape can't do much considering the bulk of this team and the sheer amount of Super-Effective EQs and Stone-Edges. And Scizor, while threatening, has much the same problem, since he takes neutral damage from the same moves Infernape fears, which are still coming from either Stat-Boosted, STAB or naturally high attack stats.



@Korali: Methinks you missed the point of many aspects of this team.

1) When people see a TTar come in after the kill a poke, they expect ScarfTar revenge killer. That very expectation causes switches, which gives me a free Dragon Dance. And, let's face it, a TTar with a DD up is far superior to ScarfTar.

2) Furthermore, the only considerable downside to Rhyperior is the commonality of water types in OU. However, now even that isn't a problem thanks to my surprise Passho Berry. Despite the idea that you can't pull the same trick twice, those berries seriously save my life 3 times over in nearly every match. But to call Rhyperior horrendously outclassed when he's boasting stats like that?

3) This isn't a stall team... I don't need Spikes or Toxic Spikes causing entry damage. I usually get enough power from my attacks to OHKO many things, not even counting Sandstorm damage.



@Master_of_Doom: See Hippowdon section of jc104



@jc104:
1) While substitute is powerful, I sadly can't run it due to Passho Berry, since all it would do is simply gimp the set. And while he can take a beating from many Super-Effective hits, they still hurt a ton, and the subs will break easily enough. However, I have another thought. As I mentioned in his description, he's not going to be outspeeding anything anytime soon, so why not use Curse? It'll take his only slightly ginormous attack and defense stats, and just buff them up to a level that's it's almost stupid.

Another option would be to use Rock Blast to break opponent's subs... but I'm not bothered by them most of the time, so I'll save that idea for another day and team.

2) Now onto the important part: Hippowdon.
Can I just say, now, that I love you.The idea of the CB Hippo is so perfectly obnoxious that it'll fit perfectly with this team! And the idea for Sleep Talk is simply inspired, sir. I can take the sleep and spam sleep talk for a few turns, allowing for a wider range of massively powerful moves to wreak havoc against my opponent. Sheesh, I get giddy thinking about it.


@ginganinja:
1) If Gliscor isn't a good swords dance user in a sandstorm then Garchomp should not be Uber. Sand Veil is just that powerful of an ability. Getting up the first swords dance is easy and with only one SD it can rack up a few KOs. However, this set truly shines against walls. Walls will try to wear him down slowly, and with roost he is free to sit, take damage, Swords Dance, heal off damage, and repeat. I've gotten him to +6 attack many times before and proceed to make 3-1, 4-1 and even 5-1 comebacks. While his attack stat isn't memorable at the start, it's really his survivability and resilience of the set that leaves the lasting impression.


2) Rhyperior is awesome. I don't want to hear no different! :P

But your point about Rock Wrecker is valid, and the move has been changed.


3) While I did consider Magnezone to fill the Special Sweeper spot, I realized that this team was already massively weak to Water type attacks. And I know from experience with my rain dance team, that a single Surf can OHKO an overly brazen Magnezone, even out of rain. I figured it just wasn't worth it. And Empoleon slightly kept to the Bulk and Might theme that this team has going on. And keping him around purely for the extra water resist on this team is totally worth it.

4) I've already answered to your doubts about the Gliscor, and I never fear a Truly cataclysmic stall where the advantage is clearly in their favor simply because of him. He can take down pretty much anything in his path if you give him the chance. And really, this whole team is bulky enough that they can last for a while against the stall teams which also gives them enough time to up their attack enough that they can take them out.



@googlyeyesultra: I once thought that my team couldn't handle many bulky waters, until I saw my Rhyperior out wall a Vaporeon with Surf. Which is truly just a testament to how powerful Rhyperior is. The only thing I had trouble with was Swampert. But that was when I was running Lucario in special slot, and since the addition of Empoleon and his Grass Knot, Swampert must either run in fear, or take the Grass Knot to the grave.


@Slashtap3: Scizor... Bullet Punch 2HKOs and none of the Dactyl's attacks do any kind of worrying damage to the metal bug. I'm quite honestly stumped as to why this question was asked.





Great criticisms guys, and sorry If I'm stubborn and don't like to listen to advice much, but I figure that if all that is accomplished here is that you only tell me what's a threat, and I go about fix it in a way that fits with the general sense of style that I prefer to use in my teams, then that is damn fine accomplishment.

 

[Junk]

I played with this team for about ~3 hours with a group of my friends before you made your most recent changes. For some reason, I always had trouble with Empoleon. Swampert was one that was kind of a problem, but was fairly easy to handle. Empoleon gets me almost every single time. Only Electric, Ground, and Fire moves are super effective on Empoleon because of its Steel/Water typing, and that was something that somewhat bugged me, since you have Earthquake on guys that have a tough time switching in because of their typing. Also, Scizor really takes dents from Hydro Pump, and a Brick Break just wouldn't take down Empoleon before Scizor got taken down. From what I saw, Surf and Hydro Pump, especially Hydro Pump, seemed to run through the team fairly easily. So pretty much, I have trouble with Empoleon, regardless of what set it runs. Am I playing the team wrong, or is there something that can take care of Empoleon that I'm not seeing? :|

 

[TheValkyries]

I played with this team for about ~3 hours with a group of my friends before you made your most recent changes. For some reason, I always had trouble with Empoleon. Swampert was one that was kind of a problem, but was fairly easy to handle. Empoleon gets me almost every single time. Only Electric, Ground, and Fire moves are super effective on Empoleon because of its Steel/Water typing, and that was something that somewhat bugged me, since you have Earthquake on guys that have a tough time switching in because of their typing. Also, Scizor really takes dents from Hydro Pump, and a Brick Break just wouldn't take down Empoleon before Scizor got taken down. From what I saw, Surf and Hydro Pump, especially Hydro Pump, seemed to run through the team fairly easily. So pretty much, I have trouble with Empoleon, regardless of what set it runs. Am I playing the team wrong, or is there something that can take care of Empoleon that I'm not seeing? :|

Well, you may be playing the team wrong, since it's tailored to my destructive tendencies of play. I only switch to take hits, not to handle threats. I tend to suicide the poke that the opponent is threatening so I can get a free advantage later on. Also, it's worth mentioning that the entire team is simply setting up for the late game sweeper... Which is the entire team (Ideally Gliscor, but it's best to basically wing it from pokemon to pokemon)

But now with Rhyperior's new Passho Berry you can destroy that pesky Empoleon. Happy destruction!

 

[Jah.Anon]

Sandstorm team dosen't mean that everyting has to resist sandstorm. If everything is rock, ground or steel, fighting becomes a huge problem. four physical sweepers isn't a great idea because Empoleon can't defeat all the physical walls.

 

[TheValkyries]

Sandstorm team dosen't mean that everyting has to resist sandstorm. If everything is rock, ground or steel, fighting becomes a huge problem. four physical sweepers isn't a great idea because Empoleon can't defeat all the physical walls.

Fair points, but ground isn't weak to fighting, and Gliscor can take nearly any fighting move up the butt twice over and live thanks to his flying type. Also, the only thing that really fears a fighting type is Tyranitar, and Empoleon. Possibly Scior if it was dangerous enough. And quite frankly, I'm not going to toss them one after the other against a fighting type.

And I've mentioned that Physical walls are set up bait for this team. I just spam the stat boosting move and crush entire teams. I really only need the Empoleon for Swampert's and then I can continue about my business.

 

[jc104]

@jc104:
1) While substitute is powerful, I sadly can't run it due to Passho Berry, since all it would do is simply gimp the set. And while he can take a beating from many Super-Effective hits, they still hurt a ton, and the subs will break easily enough. However, I have another thought. As I mentioned in his description, he's not going to be outspeeding anything anytime soon, so why not use Curse? It'll take his only slightly ginormous attack and defense stats, and just buff them up to a level that's it's almost stupid.

Another option would be to use Rock Blast to break opponent's subs... but I'm not bothered by them most of the time, so I'll save that idea for another day and team.

2) Now onto the important part: Hippowdon.
Can I just say, now, that I love you.The idea of the CB Hippo is so perfectly obnoxious that it'll fit perfectly with this team! And the idea for Sleep Talk is simply inspired, sir. I can take the sleep and spam sleep talk for a few turns, allowing for a wider range of massively powerful moves to wreak havoc against my opponent. Sheesh, I get giddy thinking about it.

Two things:

1 - It was not originally my idea to use CB Hippowdon as a lead (just to make it clear).
2 - sleep talk with CB will only let you fire off one attack, because you will be locked into the move that sleep talk selects. This is why it is a secondary option. I would run Slack Off myself, since looking at the stats, smeargle leads have declined somewhat with so many lum berry leads. They may also trick you or taunt you, ruining the strategy. It is also recommended to use Stone Edge with this, because if Sleep Talk selects Ice Fang, you will be a sitting duck. Also, having briefly used the set yesterday, I kept missing Gliscor with ice fang due to sand veil. You could consider toxic in the last slot too, since it surprises your switchins after they find out you're CB.

Rhyperior cannot really afford to curse as it will be too easily defeated by special threats. You could try toxic or something to catch bulky water and ground switch-ins off guard, helping to soften them up for a TTar sweep. However, I would put SR on him since you don't have it elsewhere on your team any more.

 

[SJCrew]

My goodness, that team does look like fun. However, I do notice a couple of problems:

1) No Stealth Rock. This is way too important in the OU metagame to pass up on.

2) Starmie will be a giant (BAN ME PLEASE) to this team, hitting everything for super effective damage while you don't have anything by the way of safe switch-ins. You'll probably end up sacking one or two Pokemon every time you encounter it. Heck, if your opponent plays properly, it can just run through your entire team.

3) You probably won't last vs. Suicune. Empy is about the best shot you have and once it gets a couple of CMs...gg.

That's about all I notice at first glance. I may just playtest this one myself.

 

[Epic Cherubi]

My goodness, that team does look like fun. However, I do notice a couple of problems:

1) No Stealth Rock. This is way too important in the OU metagame to pass up on.

2) Starmie will be a giant (BAN ME PLEASE) to this team, hitting everything for super effective damage while you don't have anything by the way of safe switch-ins. You'll probably end up sacking one or two Pokemon every time you encounter it. Heck, if your opponent plays properly, it can just run through your entire team.

3) You probably won't last vs. Suicune. Empy is about the best shot you have and once it gets a couple of CMs...gg.

That's about all I notice at first glance. I may just playtest this one myself.

Nice job trying to help him. If you're going to rate, don't just point out weaknesses and if you do, actually do a good job at it. Your rates are not helpful. Every single one you've made so far has been either you telling a noob his team is so bad he should give up, or your own opinions overshadowing whats actually right. Its fine to pick out weaknesses, but you have to ACTUALLY HELP after that.


Sorry Valkyries, I'll give you a rate.

First off, anything with a water attack will beat you. Empoleon is your only resist and it will not hold out against any boosting sweeper. Even Specs Latias will have an easy time, 1-2HKOing everything on your team. If Scizor takes 14% previous damage he can be 2HKOed by Specs Surf. You don't run Leftovers so this is fairly likely. Empoleon may survive a single switch in, but he's still taking 47.94% - 56.51% from Draco Meteor forcing him to attemp a sweep then. That Latias thing wouldn't be as bad if you weren't incapable of killing him. Without Pursuit Latias will come and go as it pleases, blowing holes in your team each time it comes in on an Earthquake. Just because it doesn't get a kill each time doesn't mean its not devastating you.

Gyarados 6-0s you with minimal effort. I know you have Passho Rhyperior and its really cool, but come on your counter takes 85% and can be flinched! If you switch in on Waterfall outright you just get 2HKOed. Oh, and Stone Edge just has an 80% chance of hitting meaning your chance of also not getting flinched is just 64%. I guess Scizor survives one hit, but hes only doing 16.31% - 19.03% with Bullet Punch..

Skarmory absolutely rapes you.

Infernape 6-0s with no problem.

~~~~
For changes I would drop Empoleon for Vaporeon. Vaporeon with Wish / protect / Surf / HP Electric will solve your water problem (barring Suicune) and beat Infernape. Wish support will keep your team a bit healthy.

Drop Choice Band on Hippowdon for Life Orb and run Earthquake / Crunch / Slack Off / Stealth Rock. You may keep Choice Band to guarentee the OHKO on Metagross or 2HKO on Swampert, but you definately want Stealth Rocks. I don't care what set you run, Stealth Rocks and Slack Off are vital. Life Orb will beat through Blissey all the same, if it matters.

I really like that Gliscor set. But seriously, MAX SPEED. You don't want to be outrun by base 100s running "a little extra" speed or end up Toxic Stalled by enemy Taunt Gliscor.

Maybe make Tyranitar a specially defensive Choice Bander? This will not just reduce your water problem, it will annihilate it.

TTar @ Choice Band
252 HP / 252 Special Defense / 4 Attack
Sassy
Payback / Pursuit / Superpower / Ice Beam or Fire Blast

This will be 3HKOed by every water attack barring Choice Specs Starmie Hydro Pump (It WILL survive two Specs Surfs from Starmie). Not only will you kill Starmie and Latias, but ANY OTHER special attacker will be killed. Tentacruel, Celebi, Jolteon, Zapdos, Azelf, Gengar, Rotom, Heatran and tons of others. Thanks to Sandstorm Tyranitar has 98% the special durability of BOLD BLISSEY. Vaporeon's Wish will keep Tyranitar alive too.



I would drop Rhyperior for something. Maybe Swords Dance Lucario, or a more offensive threat.

 

[TheValkyries]

@SJCrew: Personally, I find that rocks are overrated. Usually, I'm either OHKOing or doing 70-80%. Stealth Rocks won't net me any real valuable kills.

Starmie can take one poke, and then I can bring in Rhyperior to Revenge Kill with Megahorn. Hell, if they run Scarf Starmie to try and revenge kill against a half health Rhyperior, they're up for a big surprise since their Surf can only do 44% and Hydro Pump does 55% with less accuracy.

CM Suicune can't take too much of a Physcial beating which is pretty much what this entire team is... a physical beat down.


@Epic Cherubi:
Hey no, it's fine. I'm a big boy, I can fix my own problems, and some unforeseen problems can also be handled by an existing team set. Just telling me threats is fine. But suggestions are appreciated.

Water types almost always go to Rhyperior since they can't touch him and he can destroy them with any one of his attacks. Only trouble that Rhyperior has is Suicune and Milotic, both of which take a sufficient beating from Grass Knot from Empoleon.

True, if the Gyara flinches the Rhyperior has the team in the bag, but I just want to call to attention, that one of the greatest offensive water threats in the metagame has to worry about a x4 weak to water pokemon even after a Dragon Dance boost, and has to rely on some lucky flinch hax to take it out. But I'm not worried about the flinch hax. So if that means I only take out the Gyarados 75% of the time (counting Stone-Edge accuracy) and I'm just fine with that.

Skarmory can't touch me, and is mainly set up bait.

Band TTar is a cools idea though. I'll try it out. Gliscor's speed problem isn't much of a worry, because if a base 100 is running speed EVs, they tend to max it meaning that depending on their nature I'm either outsped or I outspeed them with the current speed set and a max speed Glis. So, it's not really necessary.

 

[SJCrew]

Every single one you've made so far has been either you telling a noob his team is so bad he should give up, or your own opinions overshadowing whats actually right.

I don't know what problem you have with me and I don't care, so stop wasting your time attacking everything I say.

I can just come in and say "put Stealth Rock on the team" and that's 5x more useful than the average rater's post. Sage advice to add one of the most important moves in the entire OU metagame, no?

You offer your criticism and I'll offer mine. But when you want to get all personal, send me a PM and we'll discuss our differences there.

or doing 70-80%.

With SR and Sandstorm damage, that's a kill. If it's Mence or Gyara, that's a kill. Incredibly bulky Pokemon like Tyranitar, Metagross, Jirachi, or Latias usually require more than one hit to kill from the average attack and getting free damage off of them just makes your job easier. Each time you fail to kill, you're decreasing your chances at winning because you give your opponent more opportunities to cause damage. You really don't want dangerous Pokemon like Salamence and Gyarados getting so many free switch-ins or they're just going to come in whenever it's convenient and destroy your team.

Oh, and you know how people rely on CB Scizor to check DD Mence? That's not possible without Stealth Rock. It'll hit you with a Fire Blast, and still have enough health to start using Outrage or EQ on the rest of your team. Plus, since you don't have CB Scizor, you'll need even more prior damage if you want to take him out (speaking of which, switching to CB Scizor actually sounds like a great idea, since firing off powerful Uturns makes switching in a lot easier for your team and you actually have some form of offense vs. Stamie).

Stealth Rock is free damage and only requires one turn to set up. There's really no reason at all to pass up on free damage. You can keep CB Hippowdon if you want, as there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the idea of OHKOing leads, but getting rid of Sleep Talk seems novel, since Roserade is going to Leaf Storm you anyway and Smeargle could also Trick, Taunt, or ignore you and set up SR, all situations that put you at a disadvantage. Getting Stealth Rock somewhere onto Hippowdon is momumentally important, and I'd recommend changing that ASAP.

EDIT: Just thought of something. Replace Empoleon with Specs Latias so you can get rid of that massive Infernape weakness. Scarftar coming in just makes Rhyperior happy since it can freely set up and get a kill or two on nearly anything that comes in. If the follow up is a Water type, then everything should go as planned. However, if it's a Grass type...things might get a little more complicated. Scizor won't be countering Shaymin anytime soon and Celebi is almost certain to be running HP Fire. Idk man, looks like quite a few changes need to be made here. As soon as I figure out what, I'll get back to you.

 

[Epic Cherubi]

I may hate SJCrew beyond reason, but he's actually right here.

Stealth Rocks can easily do 150% damage over a long game and guarentee KOs any other time.

 

[Pratty]

Yeah, I'd have to agree.

You really want Stealth Rocks somewhere. It's just soooo goooood. It punishes switch-ins and sets up as part of many checks.

If you decide to run the Vaporeon, although it doesn't look like you are, run Toxic over Hidden Power Electric. Vaporeon's massive bulk, Wish and Protect means it can stall out Gyarados with Toxic instead and messes with Suicune more.

I like the idea of the specially defensive T-Tar, but why not Crunch over Payback? More consistant damage and defense lowering. Granted, Payback can get 100 BP, but do you need it? Both work, though, I suppose. I'd also run Stone Edge over the Ice Beam/Fire Blast suggested, as it does far more damage with Choice Band than either of those attacks, except against Skarmory and maybe Scizor.

 

[mc2094]

Assuming you go with the Latias suggestion, I would go ahead and give Babiri Berry the nod over Shuca on Tyranitar. Being able to bait and kill that Scizor before he can get to your Latias is very useful. gl

 

[SJCrew]

Ok, got about an hour of playtesting in. With Latias subbed for Empy, Shuca Berry subbed for Babiri, and SD Scizor subbed for TTar the team seems to work out decently, with a few noticeable weaknesses:

Gliscor is extremely redundant. Everything else on the team sweeps better and doesn't get set up on by Gengar. Plus, it makes you even weaker to Gyara, which is something Sand Veil will not be able to compensate for. Trying to figure out a Gyarados counter that doesn't ruin your team's offensive momentum is hard because you can't exactly overpower it once it gets that free DD. Rotom-A has always been an amazing Gyarados counter, and has Will-o-Wisp to fuck with your opponent's switch-ins. Putting it on your team will benefit you greatly, since it lures out Ttar and makes it set-up bait for either your own Ttar or Rhyperior.

If you manage to apply these changes, I can grant your team a 3/5 at best. Hippowdon and Rhyperior are the stars to this attraction, garnering a free kill almost every match due to their raw power and bulk. Having some OU standards to hold your team together is necessary, but your two key wild cards will keep them on their toes. Once you've had your fun, you're going to want to abandon this team and go with something a little more solid and consistent.

 

[TheValkyries]

Hmmm, I should think about putting a threat list down on my RMT's...

You're throwing around names saying "Well what if this survives?! Then you have a problem huh?" The only problem is... ALL of them can be OHKOd by one of my my pokes.

Think of it this way. My team is 6 Sweepers all with considerable bulk. They can also almost always all revenge kill each other. So nearly every match up is entirely ideal. And because of the Sandstorm, when I come into Revenge, at least two turns minimum of SS damage has been dealt, creating a pseudo stealth rock on non resistant pokemon.



Salamence takes down one poke. Now what?

-TTar baits the EQ from him activating his Shuca Berry, and allowing for OHKO from Stone-Edge.
-Empoleon can come in after the Salad locks on an Outrage, and OHKO's with Ice Beam while sustaining minimal damage.
-Rhyperior takes any attack from the Dragon and proceeds to OHKO with Stone Edge.
-The final thing that OHKO's is Hippowdon. Outrage only has a 28.2% chance (after a DD) to OHKO Hippowdon first WITH Rocks. Without them the hippo will live. Ice Fang will finish off the dragon.

Mixmence just fails terribly against this team, so I'm not going to talk about it.


Gyarados takes down a poke?

-Rhyperior can take it out with surprise Passho and Stone-Edge.


Tyranitar?
-3 Earthquakes, 1 STAB Surf, 1 STAB Bullet Punch.


Jirachi/Metagross?
-3 Earthquakes, 1 Fire Punch, 1 STAB Crunch, 1 STAB Surf. (And a partridge in a pear tree)


Latias?
-TTar Scares it away by bluffing ScarfTar and gets a free Dragon Dance.
-Excellent surprise revenge kill for the TTar. The Latias will come back in on the DD'd TTar and surf it to it's doom. Rhyperior can come in and OHKO with Megahorn. Fun fact... Non-boosted Max SpA Latias can't 2HKO Rhyperior with Surf thanks to the Passho Berry Reducing the damage of the first Surf to 31%. And the chance of Megahorn missing twice is 2.25%

Oh And Starmie falls for the Rhyperior + Megahorn trap as well.



And while Stealth Rocks provides excellent passive damage. So does the sand storm. I think this is a crucial part that you're all forgetting. Stealth Rocks are nice and all for the modern metagame, since many people sacrifice bulkiness for pure power and speed. This is definitely not a metagame based team. This team can take the beatings that other teams can't. It can afford to be slower and do massive damage after the opponent has taken his best shot. It also has the option of either tanking some hits and wearing the opponent down slowly, or sweeping when it's convenient for them.

The best analogy I have for the way this team plays is if it was a true military battle. My team is the barb wire, the mines, and the Artillery guns. Each playing their part in victory. The enemy can charge towards me, and can get hit be a mine, taking one opponent out (Gyarados and Rhyperior for example). They can try to set up their own defenses allowing me to pound them with Artillery (Skarmory v TTar and Gliscor). And then there's the annoying barb wire that slowly wears down the enemy (The sand storm). Stealth Rocks, are like trenches, sure they're dangerous when used with foot soldiers, but what use does an artillery gun have with trenches? What idiot puts a minefield in their own trench? While Barb Wire next to the trench can be used well, it does just fine on it's own. Do you see the point I'm getting at? The passive damage from SR is effective yes, but this isn't the kind of team that needs to rely on passive damage to do it's job for it.


But back on track. Latias is a brilliant idea. The fact that Gyarados can't even enter the same room as Latias let alone touch it is a very valuable aspect to the team.

 

[ginganinja]

without SR then Gyarados and Salamence just come in time and time again and freely switch out after they have killed something. 1 vs 1 yiu may win on occasions but often your stats require you to be in safely or that you sac something to get in safely. Also Bulky mence can threaten you team as Ryperior can only 2KO with stone edge and Salamence can always roost off damage and DD up at intervals. I think SR really helps the team as it prevvents Salamence from switching in multiable times,

 

[SJCrew]

Why do you keep making up excuses not to use Stealth Rock? It's free damage for the entire match at the cost of one moveslot. Plus, it stacks with Sandstorm for more damage, netting easier kills. You're going to be switching a lot throughout the course of the match and so will your opponent, so it only makes sense to capitalize on that by setting up the simplest and most effective entry hazard in the game. Plus, it's not like you have to sacrifice anything to use it, you're just replacing a near-useless move on Hippowdon to make sure the rest of your team has an easier time sweeping.

 

[TheValkyries]

Bahahaha.

The most effective entry hazard in the game is largely over-hyped, and does nothing of value in the long run unless you're running weak pokemon who are faster than your opponent.

There I said it. In today's metagame they make sense. On paper then, it should follow that it works on every other team. But, that's on paper. Take off the rocks on your hippowdon, see how the team does. List every kill that you could've had with them that also would've made a difference in the match. Then come back to me.