VGC Teamy McTeamface

[Psycho Cut]

Kudos to everyone (probably the Brits among you) who gets the name reference. I couldn't think of anything else so that seemed appropriate...

Anyway, I've been messing around with VGC for a while and after a long team-building process across three different teams this is the best I've managed to come up with. It's a team I was knocking around at a decent high-1300 mark with a while ago and now that the International Challenge is looming I thought
I'd run it through the community and see if there are any last minute changes that I could test out.

Previewy McPreviewface

Team Details

Bro 1 (Yveltal) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing / Protect?
- Tailwind

Yveltal is one of my strong, common leads along with Kangaskhan, hence the nicknames. Taunt is great for shutting down the various TR/Gravity/etc leads that are so common, and Tailwind is good for boosting my team's speed allowing me to deal with Pokes with a Base Speed of 111+ much more easily. It also comes in very useful to simply counter opposing Tailwinds, considering how common it is. Dark Pulse and Oblivion Wing are two self-explanatory strong STAB moves though I'm considering replacing Oblivion Wing with Protect. I do find I miss Protect on the Pokemon that don't have it and there's not a huge amount that resists Dark in VGC anyway. That said, the insane recovery the move gives is handy. Black Glasses is a great hold item that frees up more common items for my other Pokemon, has great synergy with Dark Aura, doesn't cost HP and manages to nab some extra OHKOs (such as Talonflame and probably some other stuff too).

Bro 2 (Kangaskhan-Mega) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Kangaskhan is my other most common lead. Inner Focus + Fake Out is a fantastic combo which, by not Mega Evolving in the face of another Fake Out user, ensures an enemy Pokemon will flinch, allowing Yveltal (or another 'mon) to do some stuff. Return is an obvious STAB and chosen over Double Edge because I feel Kangaskhan-Mega's decent bulk shouldn't be wasted and it should be allowed to take a hit. Sucker Punch provides some much-needed offensive priority and synergises really well with most common partner Yveltal's Dark Aura. Protect because Doubles.

Landorus-Therian @ Yache Berry / Leftovers?
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Intimidate + strong STAB Earthquake makes Landorus-T a good choice for Doubles, plus, he's a good counter to threats like Primal Groudon, Dialga and helps against any strong physical attackers in the tier. Earthquake + Rock Slide provide the Doubles version of EdgeQuake, Knock Off is an additional coverage move that's helpful against Pokemon like Cresselia and whose item-removing utility is both good and hilarious for screwing over item-reliant Pokemon like Xerneas. Protect because Doubles. Yache Berry is an odd choice of an item and was there because, originally, I had a Cresselia in the team sporting Leftovers, but it does help Landorus take Weavile's attacks as well as any random HP Ice, so I kept it. Leftovers are a strong alternative choice however.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 52 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn is mainly here as a Primal Kyogre check but is also very useful against a whole range of 'mons, like Mega Mawile and Mega Kangaskhan. A Brave Nature plus maximum attack investment allow Power Whip and Gyro Ball to hit as hard as possible, with the former always OHKOing Kyogre with less than 172HP investment. Leech Seed is to help stall out Pokemon in conjuction with Protect which, again, has its obvious uses in Doubles. Rocky Helmet is mainly there to screw over Mega Kangaskhan (usually on the switch into a predicted Fake Out) and other physical attackers but, once again, was originally chosen because Leftovers was taken by Cresselia. Leftovers is an option here too, but would probably be better on Lando.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Thundurus is here for extra Taunt support as well as a Prankster-boosted Thunder Wave that provides a last ditch counter to Pokemon like Xerneas, Ray and Mega Salamence who may have been allowed to grab a boost through my own bad play. Thunderbolt and HP Ice gives Thundurus pseudo-BoltBeam coverage and, boosted by Life Orb, allow it to punish Pokemon like Kyogre and Dragons.

Xerneas @ Assault Vest / Something
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot / Protect

Xerneas was the final 'mon added to the team, replacing the Cresselia that has led to my Leftovers-free team. I can't quite remember why, but it was something along the lines of Cresselia not really working for me and me wanting more offensive presence. I opted for a non-standard set, since Xerneas attracts so many Taunts and Knock Offs, I thought I may as well make those moves wasted and capitalise on the surprise. Plus, I very rarely found I had opportunity enough to set up. As for the choice of coverage moves; Thunderbolt hits Pokemon like Crobat/Talonflame, Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn/Kangaskhan and Grass Knot is pretty much just for the Primals. I am however considering swapping out Grass Knot for the so-useful Protect, which, of course, would need a change in item, and would have to be one that didn't immediately reveal itself like a Life Orb. Open to suggestions.

-------------

Ok, that's the team done. Let me know what you think of my slashed potential changes and of any change you'd make in general. It's all very much appreciated! Thanks in advance :)

​

 

[MDK]

Hey man, first off pretty well off team there, alot of standard stuff but the use of the existence duo is something new


But here's the thing, particularly that Xerneas, although I hate using what everyone else is using most of the time those sets are used for a reason

If you are using Xerneas you gotta be running Geomancy
Focus Blast is too unreliable in VGC
Grass Knot is only good for P-Kyogre but still will have trouble KOing it
Thunderbolt also does the same just with coverage on Flying types

Assault Vest buffs Xerneas SpD but since Xerneas is infamous for using Geomancy which raises it's SpD +2 not only does it compensate for a the vest but also raises it's other stats.

Not to mention since Geomancy is so popular, your opponents aren't going to try hit your SpD, they are going for the Gyro Balls and Iron Head

Use the standard Xerneas @ Power Herb running Protect/Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast/Geomancy
Nature and EVs are your choices to find out what your preferred spreads are to check common threats you face etc


As for Yveltal, thing is, most Pokemon that run Taunt are Pranksters, you also already have Thundurus which helps on that front so focusing on Taunt and speed on Yveltal is unnecessary

Popular and disruptive choice for Yveltal is Snarl, hits both opponents and lowers SpA, I suggest using that over Dark Pulse, spread moves are always a plus in VGC too

So for Yveltal I suggest Yveltal @ Black Glasses or Leftovers with Protect/Snarl/Oblivion Wing and for the last slot you can pick from alot of different options like Tailwind, Sucker Punch or Foul Play

As for nature and EVs, again, very much dependant on if you wanna use Sucker Punch or Foul Play

Popular choice is Mild or Hasty nature


Now for Landorus, I myself used one and here's the thing, it will be pretty difficult justifying Knock Off for Xerneas because Landorus is base 91 and Xerneas is base 99 in speed, while you run Jolly they almost always run Timid so they will outspeed you every time unless you have Tailwind up so by that time they are already at +2 in 3 stats and you hit them with a NVE move that isn't even at full power because they no longer have an item

I suggest instead of Knock Off you run maybe U-Turn, it's great for pivoting when you need a better matchup, chances are when you are against a Cresselia you know that Ice Beam is coming, you want to get out of there quickly, this also applies to slow Icy Wind users.

Have you considered giving the AV to Landy?

 

[Pyritie]

Geomancy with power herb is by far xerneas' best set. If you really want to use something non-standard, the only other decent option I've seen used with success is specs. Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam are required, with the last two being two of focus blast, thunder, grass knot, or HP fire.

Yveltal is much better off being physical with Life Orb and Knock Off, as you can also take advantage of its stupidly strong sucker punches. Get rid of taunt on it, that's thundurus' job. Sucker Punch, Knock Off, Foul Play, and Protect. Give thundurus a focus sash.

Your team doesn't really have any good checks to rayquaza or opposing thundurus.

 

[RebornFX]

Really solid looking team man. The first thing that strikes me about the team however is the lack of a primal/method of removing weather. I was recently scrolling through the teams that Top Cut and out of the hundreds I saw I could only pick out 4 that didn't have any means of removing Primal weather and the reason is that it leaves your team susceptible to some of the most powerful and common Pokemon in the format. Because of this, choosing to forgo a Primal (or Mega Rayquaza) in a team has a pretty big opportunity cost which only really niche teams can really justify. I don't really think that Xerneas is worth this pretty massive cost since looking at its set and description it seems as if it is just there to be able to hit everything at least neutrally rather than there for any particular purpose, such as the purpose of a setup sweeper in the case of the standard set. It is for these reasons that I would suggest running Primal Groudon > Xerneas. Primal Groudon and Yveltal is a fairly common archetype and for good reason; Primal Groudon is an excellent Xerneas check which greatly threatens Yveltal as well as allowing you to at least take part in the weather war. Groudon and Yveltal along with Thundurus and Kangaskhan also forms a really solid core.

I would suggest testing multiple sets for Groudon, as basically any kind of Groudon can work here, including special Groudon and TR Groudon (If this is the secondary form of speed control you decide to go with) and honestly it boils down to whatever you're comfortable using. Here's a pretty straightforward max speed Groudon set:

Primal Groudon Set

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Protect

The EVs make Xerneas' +2 Dazzling Gleam a 3HKO, with the rest in attack and speed to at least speed tie with opposing base 90s.

The next team member change I would suggest is based on which set you decided on above. If you chose a fast Groudon, I would suggest running a Tailwind user since I feel that Yveltal appreciates having 3 attacking moves and even though you have 2 powerful forms of priority in Sucker Punch, these aren't particularly reliable and both Groudon and Yveltal greatly appreciate Speed Control. In this case I would suggest Talonflame > Landorus-T. With Groudon on the team you no longer necessitate having a strong ground STAB to deal with Dialga and I feel that Talonflame fits the team better in general, also removing one of your ice weaknesses (though granted trading it for a rock weakness). Talonflame is able to better check Xerneas, provide TW and QG support, while still being able to deal with Groudon to an extent.

Talonflame Set

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Quick Guard

If you were to go with a TR Groudon, I would recommend Cresselia > Landorus-T, as it can form a solid TR core with Mega Kang, Groudon and Ferrothorn and provide Skill Swap and Gravity support for Groudon, removing his weakness to Ground and keeping up his weather and ensuring Precipice Blades does not miss and hits everything on the opponents side of the field.

Cresselia Set

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 8 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Skill Swap
- Gravity

The EVs guarantee that a +2 Dazzling Gleam for Xerneas is a 3HKO with the rest in defense.

Now for some set changes. The first set change I would suggest is running Low Kick > Protect on Kangaskhan and running a spread of 4 HP / 172 Atk / 76 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe to ensure that Kang survives opposing Low Kicks from Kang. Running Fake Out and Protect on Kang is rarely seen and I really don't think that Protect is worth giving up that moveslot here.

Next up Ferrothorn. The only change I'd suggest making is running some more bulk on Ferrothorn. You will often find that if Kyogre is running any bulk at all it will be higher than the 172 HP benchmark you mentioned. I would recommend a spread of 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD with a Sassy nature. This allows Ferrothorn to survive 2 max HP modest water spouts and still has a very good chance to OHKO 4 HP Kyogre.

I feel your Yveltal set can be optimised a bit. Here is a set that the VGC raters have come up with which hits some fairly impressive benchmarks (some more relevant than others).

Yveltal Set

Yveltal @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 28 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Snarl
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Benchmarks

• 252 Atk Zap Plate Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 244 HP / 28 Def Yveltal: 194-230 (83.6 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Yveltal in Heavy Rain: 195-231 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Yveltal: 190-226 (81.8 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 244 HP / 28 Def Yveltal: 187-221 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Yveltal: 186-218 (80.1 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Yveltal: 159-190 (68.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 28 Def Yveltal: 194-230 (83.6 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Yveltal: 216-254 (93.1 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
• 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 28 Def Yveltal: 188-224 (81 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 244 HP / 28 Def Yveltal: 182-218 (78.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• Reaches 158 speed to outspeed max speed landorus-t by one point.

And finally for Thundurus. Depending on whether or not you went with Talonflame you may or may not need to change your item. Here is a Sitrus Berry set if necessary:

Hide

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 180 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect

The EVs allow it to always surivive a neutral max attack Fire Punch from Groudon, survive a Jolly Double Edge from Kang after Sitrus Berry have a good chance of living a timid water spout from Kyogre and outspeed positive base 70s by 1.

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

everyone else mostly covered what was necessary, however there are a couple of things you can do if you don't want to change one of your restricted pokemon.

while niche, a role play thundurus can work here. it gives you a way to control the weather per say, and you don't necessarily need hidden power ice. this team is quite solid otherwise, kudos to you teambuilding-wise.

one thing that i didn't see mentioned however was a banded lando > the yache variant you currently have. with earthquake / rock slide / superpower / explosion, this gains pretty good coverage on a lot and can ohko a rayquaza with explosion which is nice considering you don't have the greatest match up against it, even with xerneas. the spread can be max speed / max attack as opposed to a bulkier variant because you need to have as much power as possible for not only ray, but groudon as well.

another bulkier thundurus spread is 180 hp / 60 def / 4 spa / 164 spdef / 100 spe with a timid nature. it outspeeds base 90s by 2 points (which means it creeps anything that only creeps them by one, also outspeeding all forms of primal groudon / kyogre which is really beneficial with role play) while living attacks such as kyogre's origin pulse and kangaskhan's double edge after sitrus berry. just a faster alternative to the only RebornFX suggested, both are fine.

that's all i have. everyone else did a great job at pulling out the bigger flaws, this is just my two cents.

landorus + thundurus

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Explosion

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Role Play

 

[Pyritie]

everyone else mostly covered what was necessary, however there are a couple of things you can do if you don't want to change one of your restricted pokemon.

while niche, a skill swap thundurus can work here. it gives you a way to control the weather per say, and you don't necessarily need hidden power ice. this team is quite solid otherwise, kudos to you teambuilding-wise.

one thing that i didn't see mentioned however was a banded lando > the yache variant you currently have. with earthquake / rock slide / superpower / explosion, this gains pretty good coverage on a lot and can ohko a rayquaza with explosion which is nice considering you don't have the greatest match up against it, even with xerneas. the spread can be max speed / max attack as opposed to a bulkier variant because you need to have as much power as possible for not only ray, but groudon as well.

another bulkier thundurus spread is 180 hp / 60 def / 4 spa / 164 spdef / 100 spe with a timid nature. it outspeeds base 90s by 2 points (which means it creeps anything that only creeps them by one, also outspeeding all forms of primal groudon / kyogre which is really beneficial with skill swap) while living attacks such as kyogre's origin pulse and kangaskhan's double edge after sitrus berry. just a faster alternative to the only RebornFX suggested, both are fine.

that's all i have. everyone else did a great job at pulling out the bigger flaws, this is just my two cents.

landorus + thundurus

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Explosion

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Skill Swap

Thundurus learns role play, not skill swap

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

right, thanks for that.

 

[Psycho Cut]

MDK - ok, appreciate the point about Xerneas, and it's a good one. That said, I don't really like using the standard set since I feel it doesn't accomplish much. I suppose an unorthodox set is perhaps a bit to gimmicky. I did try Choice Specs but found that being locked onto a move in VGC tended to hurt. All this in mind, I'll take the advice to change Xerneas to Primal Groudon

Despite those impressive calcs, I'm less convinced about the defensive Yveltal sets though. Yveltal's offensive presence has been really useful thus far, since it does pretty hefty damage on most anything, and I don't want to end up going too defensive on all my 'mons only to be left with a lack of firepower in what is a pseudo-Ubers tier. I do take the point about Taunt though, so I'm going to switch that out for Snarl, and maybe give Protect a trial run in place of Oblivion Wing/Dark Pulse.

RebornFX - I'll give Talonflame a shot in lieu of Lando-T. As you say, with P-Groudon in there it's uses are limited, and Talonflame did serve well in a past team (plus, I already have one bred and trained on cart). Again, I'm less convinced about the changes to Ferrothorn. I can't remember a time when Ferro failed to OHKO a P-Kyogre with Power Whip, and I feel it already takes the hits it needs to. That said, I'd be open to suggestions in EV changes, provided the Max. attack is kept. Also, on Ferrothorn, I find I very rarely use Leech Seed. Would Knock Off be a better option? Thunder Wave perhaps?

Everyone, thanks for taking the time to post up such useful and detailed feedback, it's all been very helpful. I really do appreciate it!