we did not need the reminder
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
SV UU Metagame Discussion (Pre-Home)
- Thread starter Lily
- Start date
- Status
Any word on if any bans are going to be retested along the omegadrop next month?
Crazy how there are only 2 UUBL Pokémon currently. UU best tier
yes we did
Greninja-Bond (M) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
Not a game breaking Pokémon for sure but a cool one to use. I've been messing with it in a HO and it's doing quite well overall, still frail af but an effective cleaner otherwise with some Entry Hazards support. Water Shuriken kinda sucks not gonna lie so I had to go with Loaded Dice to ensure some decent damages, too bad we're not keeping the old mechanic like Ash-Greninja with 3 guaranted hits with 25 BP, that was way nicer than this crappy Loaded Nice technique but ehhh, still decent imo. Thanks to Battle Bond speed boost, Greninja is able to outspeed a shit ton of Pokémon and only fears things like Unburden users.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
Just some brief thoughts on a recent tournament game I played here for UULT vs Totomon :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-698581
Lead and match up
So I don't think the match up is actually bad, in fact, I'm rather fond of it since I have rest Wo-Chien for Quagsire, Maus vs likely no Helmet user, and maximum hazards + a lot of far tera ghosts vs spin Cycle. I think there are still quite a few issues for me, namely Armarogue is a massive threat if it gets a Weak Armor boost and I can't remove hazards except with Tidy Up which isn't really ideal. But I felt pretty confident in this match up overall.
I lead Tinkaton because it's fairly obvious Maus is a gigantic threat and he might want to lead with Cycle to limit my Maus (technically I can spam Pop bomb turn one but that's a bit too risky given Quag could easily be helmet here, he could tera ghost Cycle as well, plus even if all goes well he can Knock my Wide Lens).
T1 - most of the time I'd probably just attack the Cycle predicting a Knock but I really felt based on our previous games (this was the final game of a bo3) that he was going to U-turn which happens so the rocks I get are super great.
T2 - I'm obviously happy so I go to my Mence vs Tauros, the clearly safe move although the double switch was nice by Totomon.
T3 to 5 - I go Gastrodon which in a vacuum makes sense - it counters Tinkaton - but with the presence of Cyclizar, it basically telegraphs to the opponent if I set up Spikes, it means I will very likely Tera Ghost with Gastrodon. That ends up happening and I keep Cycle a bit lower, but there is course the huge cost of losing my ability to Tera (and becoming a bit weaker to Tinkaton). I think it's perfectly fine to play like this, it's not a very flexible way of playing though, more like trying to press my advantage. However, when my opponent reveals Boots on all of Quagsire, Armarogue, and Tinkaton later, it's just not a very pleasant surprise for me, I really didn't anticipate boots on Quagsire.
T6- Of course setting up more hazards is an option but I don't necessarily feel rushed and I am very aware my opponent lacks any ground resist so I wanted some damage here to stick - in case there was boots Scream or Quagsire incoming, Epower guarantees a bit of progress while Spikes does not necessarily help much. I'm also aware Epower will 3hko standard quags, forcing them to waste time healing.
T7 - forcing them to waste time healing
T8 - I think this was fine since I'm rest wochien, I was a bit surprised they didn't set up a hazard but maybe they were tspikes which gets absorbed by my team anyways. The Tinkaton feels fairly telegraphed and I am happy to get some chip on it for both my sweepers here.
T11/12 - quite lucky sleep talk rolls for me but really I just wanted to burn sleep so I could be useful later, and it was fairly obvious toto was going to try and do some predictions here considering how bad of a spot he was in
T13 - I did think tera ghost Gastrodon with like 40 def evs would takeTauros water better but it really doesn't, perhaps I should have calced although I'm not sure what I'd do except maybe stay in with wochien on the beyond telegraphed Stone Edges.
T15 - I calc this and in the likely event he's jolly 252 then he has a pretty small chance to KO the dawn of don but in any case, I shouldn't really lose my spinblocker like this.
T16 - obvious
T-17 but this is much harder, I figured I had fairly good odds here since I'm max speed Salamence with some HP so I know I live one edge, basically he has to predict the mence + hit the edge + win the speed tie which I thought wasn't very likely but he gets a crit instead. in any case, I mess up my thought process since he didn't actually have to predict (cc + edge kills anyways, assuming I stayed in on the hypothetical next turn which I might now have tbh). Still unfortunate but only in this analysis I realize it wasn't that unfortunate.
end of T17/T18 - which brings me the question, should I revenge with Toxtricity (and if so, how) or Maushold. In reflection, I think it ended up being similar results but I think I pick wrong. Toxtricity doesn't really want to lock itself into anything (tbh I was worried about cycle bluffing tera ghost/steel too) but Toto very correctly teras the Quagsire which suddenly poses a nasty problem for me - breaking quagsire with boots and tera ghost is very difficult for me.
turn 20 - probably one of my biggest regrets here, it seems unfathomable he would keep tera ghost boots quagsire in on my waking up Wochien here, so a double is very very good - I should have went maus if it kills tink with bomb or Toxtricity if not. it's just very bad for me not to double here, I was thinking I needed to chip tink more but I think I could have let hazards do that for me.
t23 - it was roughly here when I realize if I give arma a weak armor boost, it can easily sweep me 0 questions asked so I was starting to be very unhappy with the game now. I don't know if going tink was particularly good because I was still scared of clicking almost anything to be honest. hard for me to think what to do here.
T24-25 - Really the question of revenging Arma is what do I want to be in after totomon obviously sacks Tinkaton. It's tough but I think I wanted maus out, which can kill cycle if he wants to spin and it can a tad bit of uturn chip on Quagsire if it comes in (healing isn't too likely when encore is common on maus although I don't have it).
t27 - I think I am underestimating how bad it is right now, I really had a chance to double to toxtricity here and force him to predict and I should probably have took this although i have no idea what I'd click on the cycle with Toxtricity. The way it plays out, I just basically always lose bar significant hax so I think this is one of the last chances the game is within my control.
t28 - fp because I wanted to kill him in exchange for the spin but he finally makes the Weak Armor play here, and now I'm in deep trouble.
t29 - I thought he was going to cm and sweep me but he goes for psyshock instead which I suppose denies me the chance to epower crit him (and still have a terrible position mind you).
t30 - end - not much to say except I go for one last bit of hax with bite and once I don't get it, I just force him to reveal he is indeed wish/protect scream tail and once he does I forfeit.
Final thoughts
So there are worse things than losing to Totomon who played quite well and overcame a very unfortunate game 1 loss from him, largely due to hax. I don't think I played terribly although obviously I am critical of a few turns by me like 27 and 20. It's a bit sad I didn't get to use Maus in a stronger way although I think other people abuse him perfectly well anyways. Losing is always extremely frustrating for me, especially so early in this tournament, but it is still enjoyable to see Totomon succeed even more and I guess this is the nature of a competitive game. Best wishes to all the remaining contenders.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-698581
Lead and match up
So I don't think the match up is actually bad, in fact, I'm rather fond of it since I have rest Wo-Chien for Quagsire, Maus vs likely no Helmet user, and maximum hazards + a lot of far tera ghosts vs spin Cycle. I think there are still quite a few issues for me, namely Armarogue is a massive threat if it gets a Weak Armor boost and I can't remove hazards except with Tidy Up which isn't really ideal. But I felt pretty confident in this match up overall.
I lead Tinkaton because it's fairly obvious Maus is a gigantic threat and he might want to lead with Cycle to limit my Maus (technically I can spam Pop bomb turn one but that's a bit too risky given Quag could easily be helmet here, he could tera ghost Cycle as well, plus even if all goes well he can Knock my Wide Lens).
T1 - most of the time I'd probably just attack the Cycle predicting a Knock but I really felt based on our previous games (this was the final game of a bo3) that he was going to U-turn which happens so the rocks I get are super great.
T2 - I'm obviously happy so I go to my Mence vs Tauros, the clearly safe move although the double switch was nice by Totomon.
T3 to 5 - I go Gastrodon which in a vacuum makes sense - it counters Tinkaton - but with the presence of Cyclizar, it basically telegraphs to the opponent if I set up Spikes, it means I will very likely Tera Ghost with Gastrodon. That ends up happening and I keep Cycle a bit lower, but there is course the huge cost of losing my ability to Tera (and becoming a bit weaker to Tinkaton). I think it's perfectly fine to play like this, it's not a very flexible way of playing though, more like trying to press my advantage. However, when my opponent reveals Boots on all of Quagsire, Armarogue, and Tinkaton later, it's just not a very pleasant surprise for me, I really didn't anticipate boots on Quagsire.
T6- Of course setting up more hazards is an option but I don't necessarily feel rushed and I am very aware my opponent lacks any ground resist so I wanted some damage here to stick - in case there was boots Scream or Quagsire incoming, Epower guarantees a bit of progress while Spikes does not necessarily help much. I'm also aware Epower will 3hko standard quags, forcing them to waste time healing.
T7 - forcing them to waste time healing
T8 - I think this was fine since I'm rest wochien, I was a bit surprised they didn't set up a hazard but maybe they were tspikes which gets absorbed by my team anyways. The Tinkaton feels fairly telegraphed and I am happy to get some chip on it for both my sweepers here.
T11/12 - quite lucky sleep talk rolls for me but really I just wanted to burn sleep so I could be useful later, and it was fairly obvious toto was going to try and do some predictions here considering how bad of a spot he was in
T13 - I did think tera ghost Gastrodon with like 40 def evs would takeTauros water better but it really doesn't, perhaps I should have calced although I'm not sure what I'd do except maybe stay in with wochien on the beyond telegraphed Stone Edges.
T15 - I calc this and in the likely event he's jolly 252 then he has a pretty small chance to KO the dawn of don but in any case, I shouldn't really lose my spinblocker like this.
T16 - obvious
T-17 but this is much harder, I figured I had fairly good odds here since I'm max speed Salamence with some HP so I know I live one edge, basically he has to predict the mence + hit the edge + win the speed tie which I thought wasn't very likely but he gets a crit instead. in any case, I mess up my thought process since he didn't actually have to predict (cc + edge kills anyways, assuming I stayed in on the hypothetical next turn which I might now have tbh). Still unfortunate but only in this analysis I realize it wasn't that unfortunate.
end of T17/T18 - which brings me the question, should I revenge with Toxtricity (and if so, how) or Maushold. In reflection, I think it ended up being similar results but I think I pick wrong. Toxtricity doesn't really want to lock itself into anything (tbh I was worried about cycle bluffing tera ghost/steel too) but Toto very correctly teras the Quagsire which suddenly poses a nasty problem for me - breaking quagsire with boots and tera ghost is very difficult for me.
turn 20 - probably one of my biggest regrets here, it seems unfathomable he would keep tera ghost boots quagsire in on my waking up Wochien here, so a double is very very good - I should have went maus if it kills tink with bomb or Toxtricity if not. it's just very bad for me not to double here, I was thinking I needed to chip tink more but I think I could have let hazards do that for me.
t23 - it was roughly here when I realize if I give arma a weak armor boost, it can easily sweep me 0 questions asked so I was starting to be very unhappy with the game now. I don't know if going tink was particularly good because I was still scared of clicking almost anything to be honest. hard for me to think what to do here.
T24-25 - Really the question of revenging Arma is what do I want to be in after totomon obviously sacks Tinkaton. It's tough but I think I wanted maus out, which can kill cycle if he wants to spin and it can a tad bit of uturn chip on Quagsire if it comes in (healing isn't too likely when encore is common on maus although I don't have it).
t27 - I think I am underestimating how bad it is right now, I really had a chance to double to toxtricity here and force him to predict and I should probably have took this although i have no idea what I'd click on the cycle with Toxtricity. The way it plays out, I just basically always lose bar significant hax so I think this is one of the last chances the game is within my control.
t28 - fp because I wanted to kill him in exchange for the spin but he finally makes the Weak Armor play here, and now I'm in deep trouble.
t29 - I thought he was going to cm and sweep me but he goes for psyshock instead which I suppose denies me the chance to epower crit him (and still have a terrible position mind you).
t30 - end - not much to say except I go for one last bit of hax with bite and once I don't get it, I just force him to reveal he is indeed wish/protect scream tail and once he does I forfeit.
Final thoughts
So there are worse things than losing to Totomon who played quite well and overcame a very unfortunate game 1 loss from him, largely due to hax. I don't think I played terribly although obviously I am critical of a few turns by me like 27 and 20. It's a bit sad I didn't get to use Maus in a stronger way although I think other people abuse him perfectly well anyways. Losing is always extremely frustrating for me, especially so early in this tournament, but it is still enjoyable to see Totomon succeed even more and I guess this is the nature of a competitive game. Best wishes to all the remaining contenders.
If torn-t drops for a month I hope the uu council quickbans it, we don't want another zeraora ruins SS uu for a month situation...
It's very likely we go a week+ with no quickbans, just setting your expectations. Prepare for the wild wild west and be ready for some silly shit to happen.
Just a few more days until Garchomp tears this tier a new asshole...
The reckoning is soon, who will survive? Who knows...
(Well Sandy mence wo chien ttar and a good few others are definitely yes but yknow)
I kinda want to know others' opinions on who survives the home drops making everything crazy
(Well Sandy mence wo chien ttar and a good few others are definitely yes but yknow)
I kinda want to know others' opinions on who survives the home drops making everything crazy
Attachments
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
While I am very happy and grateful to Monky25 and other leaders that much work is being done for UUWC, I just wanted to express somewhere that I find it profoundly disappointing that we were told the current gen line up was non negotiable only to be told now:
While it is okay to change your mind on a settled matter that affects other people, when someone in a position of authority does this I think they should make it known publicly before the final decision because it let's other people who agreed with the original opinion say something.
While it is okay to change your mind on a settled matter that affects other people, when someone in a position of authority does this I think they should make it known publicly before the final decision because it let's other people who agreed with the original opinion say something.
Chomp isn't falling :copium:
- Status