Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings (Post DLC2)

[Aberforth]

(amazing art by Fusion Flare)​

Hello all! Here's our second viability rankings thread to represent the post-home metagame.

This is a list of the seventy-two viable Pokemon in SV Ubers, sorted top-to-bottom from most to least viable.

Thread Rules

- Post intelligently. One-liners saying things like "X should be Y rank" without context or supporting evidence are likely to be disregarded or deleted.
- Be civil when debating other users. Any flaming will not be tolerated.
- This thread is for discussion of the viability rankings only. Those wanting to ask simple questions about why something is ranked or how to build a team should look to our SQSA for guidance.
- Be aware of our subforum rules and the global forum rules — they all apply here, too.

The VR Council

The VR Council is a group of experienced players selected to assess any new nominations from the community and vote on them before they become accepted into the rankings. This same council has the same jurisdiction over the upcoming Sample Teams thread. The VR Council also can internally nominate changes to the thread — it then votes on these, just as an individual user would in a post in this thread. We will document all changes to the Viability Rankings in the form of update posts, where votes and associated reasoning are collected in a spreadsheet. Be on the lookout for these.

The current VR Council is:
Aberforth
Fc
Fogbound Lake
Inder
Kate
Manaphy
SiTuM

Rankings

The Pokémon below S are not currently ranked within their own tiers. Instead, they are ranked alphabetically within their own tiers.

S Rank
S

Koraidon
Necrozma Dusk Mane
Miraidon


A Rank

A+
Arceus-Fairy
Arceus-Ground
Ho-Oh
Zacian-Crowned

A
Arceus
Arceus-Water
Eternatus
Kyogre


A-
Gliscor
Ting-Lu

B Rank
B+
Chien-Pao
Deoxys-A
Flutter Mane
Giratina-O
Glimmora
Ribombee


B
Calyrex-I
Deoxys-S
Iron Bundle
Kyurem-B
Landorus-T
Rayquaza


B-
Arceus-Ghost
Clodsire
Grimmsnarl
Groudon
Kingambit
Lunala
Skeledirge
Zekrom

C Rank
C+
Arceus-Dark
Mewtwo
Toxapex

C
Alomomola
Arceus-Grass
Arceus-Poison
Blissey
Corviknight
Chi-Yu
Hatterene
Iron Treads
Orthworm
Walking Wake

C-
Ditto
Giratina-A
Gothitelle
Great Tusk
Pecharunt
Skarmory
Sneasler
Ursaluna-Blood-Moon


D Rank

A reminder that these Pokemon are only Ubers by tiering and possess no real metagame niche.

Annihilape
Arceus-Bug
Arceus-Dragon
Arceus-Electric
Arceus-Fighting
Arceus-Fire
Arceus-Flying
Arceus-Ice
Arceus-Psychic
Arceus-Rock
Arceus-Steel
Archaludon
Baxcalibur
Deoxys-N
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Espathra
Kyurem-W
Landorus
Lugia
Magearna
Necrozma-DW
Ogerpon-H
Palafin
Palkia
Palkia-O
Regieleki
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Terapagos
Urshifu
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zacian
Zamazenta-Crowned

 

[OreoSpeedruns]

Agree with nearly everything on this new VR, but I do have a couple proposals for drops.

to B- at best

Speaking from personal experience, Gothitelle only really thrives in specific scenarios, and even then it can struggle. It can trap an annoying member of a defensive core, like Clodsire on the Clod + Dirge core, but afterwards it’s just setup fodder for a myriad of threatening sweepers that you really don’t want to be giving free turns to. Dragon Dance Groundceus, Swords Dance Zacian-Crowned, Calm Mind Fairyceus, and the rare but pretty good Calyrex-Ice can all set up freely on a Gothitelle after it traps something, and these are threats that only need to find one setup opportunity to run away with a game.

to D

Even after the ban of Calyrex-Shadow, I see absolutely no reason to ever use Spectrier when Flutter Mane exists. Flutter Mane just throughly outclasses it; Flutter Mane is faster, has a secondary Fairy STAB to not get 100% bodied by Ting-Lu, and possibly most importantly, has actual coverage to hit other things that its STABs don’t already hit. It’s also a special attacker that can easily get past Clodsire and more rarely Blissey, since it has Psyshock to target their weak physical Defense. There really isn’t a reason to use Spectrier when Flutter Mane exists.

to D

The abundance of great Ground-types in the tier, like Groundceus, Groudon, Ting-Lu, and Clodsire all really hold Arceus-Electric back, especially because both Ting-Lu and Clodsire are very common to check Miraidon, one of the biggest threats in the tier. And speaking of Miraidon, you should just use that over Arceus-Electric and save your Arceus slot for a much better form instead of giving up your Arceus slot for Miraidon at Home (get it???).

By the way, some time ago Manaphy shared with me this Arceus minisprites thread that Minority made in 6th gen, and since it doesn’t seem too outdated yet, I’d perhaps recommend using the sprites here?

 

[Up darma nitan]

Whoa, Skeliderge at A rank? Guessing it's because it counters Zacian C

 

[Taka]

Whoa, Skeliderge at A rank? Guessing it's because it counters Zacian C

it checks zacian-c, koraidon, ekiller, and can use tera to check dd groundceus as well, very solid defensive mon.

 

[658Greninja]

Holy power creep. Flutter Mane in B+? Chien-Pao in B-? Chi-Yu and Tusk in C+? Bundle in C?

 

[Clarkinator]

Holy power creep. Flutter Mane in B+? Chien-Pao in B-? Chi-Yu and Tusk in C+? Bundle in C?

Every serious team runs Zacian Crowned which Flutter Mane is completely helpless against. It's a tough meta for the little ghostie, unfortunately. It's also pretty hardwalled by Dirge as well which is also everywhere. The fact that Fighting coverage is literally everywhere also means it's a rough meta for and Dark or Ice types.

 

[SiTuM]

Every serious team runs Zacian Crowned which Flutter Mane is completely helpless against.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Ghost Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 340-402 (104.6 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian-Crowned in Sun: 336-396 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Pretzel Waifu]

Sad to see Zamazenta-C that low, but it makes sense. Least he had his time to terrorize OU for a bit.

 

[RohAn Y]

How is Mewtwo A-
why is it even used

 

[corvere]

How is Mewtwo A-
why is it even used

because its a good pokemon. play the tier and use mewtwo and youll know why.

 

[pika pal]

because its a good pokemon. play the tier and use mewtwo and youll know why.

Legitimately asking for elaboration, no sarcasm. Mewtwo's two claims to fame tend to be its Sweeping stats (High Offense and high speed) and a decent array of utility options to complement them. While I can't speak t the latter since it retained a lot of stuff despite move changes, the three current Kings of the tier all outspeed it pretty handily and hit similarly hard with arguably stronger STAB options. Competition for the role seems tight and I'm not sure to what extent Mewtwo would complement them for a Multi-breaker approach, and 2/3 of them also look to check it in the case of Zacian and Miraidon.

Does it have a particularly useful Tera set for its toolbox in the current meta?

 

[corvere]

Legitimately asking for elaboration, no sarcasm. Mewtwo's two claims to fame tend to be its Sweeping stats (High Offense and high speed) and a decent array of utility options to complement them. While I can't speak t the latter since it retained a lot of stuff despite move changes, the three current Kings of the tier all outspeed it pretty handily and hit similarly hard with arguably stronger STAB options. Competition for the role seems tight and I'm not sure to what extent Mewtwo would complement them for a Multi-breaker approach, and 2/3 of them also look to check it in the case of Zacian and Miraidon.

Does it have a particularly useful Tera set for its toolbox in the current meta?

bulky offense is the current best playstyle in the meta and Mewtwo is pretty good into it. both stall2 (psychic will o wisp recover ice beam/taunt) and specs (psystrike fire blast grass knot earth power/ice beam) do very well into them while not being extreme dead weight into offense due to tera. stall2 can annoy bulky offense with the combination of a speed stat that's faster than Arceus and will o wisp + taunt, shutting down defensive cores. if Mewtwo invests into bulk it's also surprisingly bulky which lets it live hits like scarf korai and zacian-c in a pinch, for example. offensive can just straight up dismantle them(defensive cores) via strong attacks and coverage. stall2 runs tera poison which helps it absorb toxic spikes and not get poisoned by toxic from the likes of eternatus, while specs runs fire to power up fire blast and checking zacian.

 

[Nyx]

Gonna go ahead and suggest some changes based off how this UPL's gone so far. Skipping some mons, just the ones that seemed the most prominent

Arceus-Ground: S -> A+, still a top 2 Arceus forme without question, it's just not on par with the Dragons and Zacian-C

Arceus: A+ -> B+, tentative but this mons genuinely just so, mid, in the current metagame, not a bad mon but nearly every team prefers one of Ground or Fairy to the point where trying to put it onto a team is incredibly hard

Flutter Mane: B+ -> A-/A, what is a Ghost resist in this tier? Ting-Lu, oh look, he dies to Moonblast. This thing has one set (Specs) but by God does it do that one set incredibly well

Landorus-Therian: B -> A-, it's the only slow pivot in the tier barring Corvi which rarely runs U-turn anyways. Intim makes it deceptively bulky and Taunt allows it to shut down Groudon/Ting. Scarf's also a solid set, he is him

Palkia-Origin: B- -> B+, incredibly good breaker w/ the ability to speed tie (or lets be real, outspeed most) Arc, just a little hard to fit on teams is all

Walking-Wake: C- -> B-/B, effectively the same logic as Palkia-O, just a little less splashable

Arceus-Steel: C ->D, this mon's just bad, there's no reason to use it in a tier ran by Koraidon, a bulky Steel is just worse than a bulky Fairy

 

[Knight who says "Ni"]

I feel garganacl needs to be ranked somewhere. In a metagame where both Skeledirge and Tina O are A rank pokemon, a status immune ghost resist is really valuable. With covert cloak being virtually non existent, recovery moves at 8 pp and boots surprisingly rare from personal experience, salt cure is virtually guaranteed progress against any team. Garg itself is particularly punitive towards builds reliant on a pokemon passive vs it such as skeledirge, toxapex and (with iron defense) ting lu to check physical attackers and set hazards. Salt cure also means it isnt exactly inviting in offensive threats in a way that a lot of defensive pokemon in this metagame seem to do. I think it is worthy of at least a C rank above virtually unseen stuff such as regular Dialga and Zamazenta Crowned.

Otherwise I agree with the idea that Flutter Mane should be higher. While often predictable, good switchins to it are few and far between and it's able to exert a ridiculous amount of pressure from preview and makes opponents always have to think twice about switching their Ting Lu in, which I feel is really valuable with Lu as popular as it is

Speaking of Lu, I feel it is a teensy bit overrated. While compressing a spiker and a miraidon check without being clodsire is obviously incredibly valuable, it still has a tendency to invite in powerful threats such as Koraidon, Fairyceus or god forbid groundceus or Caly Ice, at best threatening to whirlwind them and at worst being forced out while these pokemon either set up or gain momentum with U-turn. At times this can lead to using Lu feeling a little prediction reliant, which for me separates it from fairyceus and groudon as genuine A+ mons and makes it look a little more suitable in A

Agree w groundceus to A+ and normalceus way down but cba elaborating tbh

 

[Manaphy]

Hi, after observing the meta develop over the past few weeks, here's what I think the changes to the VR should look like:

S Tier:




S- Tier:




After checking the UPL usage stats, I think this is the best approximation of the best mons in the tier. All 4 of these pokemon are consistently at the top of the usage rates, with both Zacian-C and Ting-Lu both being the #1 most used Pokemon for some of those weeks. At a certain level, Koraidon and Miraidon tend to be mutually exclusive (they stack weaknesses), so it doesn't surprise me that they are losing the #1 slot on some weeks, but I still think they both deserve the higher S slot.

Some may be skeptical of Ting-Lu going this high, but the reality is that a mon that has had as high as 70% usage simply cannot be left out of the S Ranks. It's also just way too critical to defensive cores as the only reliable Miraidon check, and the hazards that it sets are extremely powerful in a tier with so few removal options.

Notice the lack of Groundceus- it's usage in UPL just simply cannot compare to the 4 pokemon above. Due to this, I think the A+ tier should look something like this:

A+:

Yes, I'm putting Arceus-Fairy above Groundceus, as Arceus-Fairy simply has more usage than Arceus-Ground does. Don't get me wrong, Arceus-Ground is an offensive powerhouse with very few offensive checks; its just that the defensive utility it provides to teams is very low, and that's why Arceus-Fairy has seen more usage than it. Realistically Arceus-Ground simply does not check Miraidon, and it has the additional problem of stacking weakness with Ting-Lu, Groudon, Skeledirge, etc. Meanwhile, Arceus-Fairy is one of the only sources of Dragon-type resists in the tier, making it critical for teams that forgo Zacian-C - and even then, the two make for pretty good partners. Arceus-Fairy can additionally pull of very hard-to-stop sets such as Rocks Taunt and Calm Mind that give it an offensive niche whilst it still checks Koraidon/Miradon/Rayquaza/Gira-O/Groudon/Chien-Pao/etc. Arceus-Ground certainly has the edge on straight-up HO teams, where it's a cerbut that type of team tends to be a bit niche overall right now compared to balances and BO as a whole.

I also think Groudon needs to be taken out of the A rankings; it's usage in UPL started out extremely high, but it's since dropped off as people have started to use other defensive mons like Landorus-T and Skele more.

A:










With Groudon moving down, I think the current A tier more or less looks fine. I may change my feelings for Etern or Ogre to go to A- but about this feels good for now.

A-:










The big changes here are E-Killer, Lando, and Corviknight. As others have stated in this thread, E-Killer simply got massively overrated upon release; simply put, I think Arceus-Ground tends to do its role much better for offensive teams, as it can break much easier. Meanwhile, E-Killer has to contend with Zacian-C and Koraidon before it can sweep - not to mention Giratina-O, Skeledirge, Groudon, etc. - there's simply too many roadblocks for E-Killer to overcome to be rated so high, and the usage stats in UPL concur with this.

Lando-T would rise a ton, but I think it's wholly justified - it has really high use rates and it can run both Defensive sets and Scarf sets well. While it lacks Wisp and Spikes that defensive don has, it can make up for that with its Ground- and Spikes immunity, and it also has super useful moves like U-Turn, Grass Knot, and Taunt.

As for Corviknight, in terms of UPL usage it stands similar to where Mewtwo is, so I think a rise to A- is fine. While Corv is not going to be the primary defensive wall in your arsenal, it is a pretty good Defog option with good resists that can check most Zacian-C sets straight up. It also Defogs pretty consistently on Ting-Lu and Clodsire thanks to Pressure and Roost, whereas Giratina has to content with being hit by Ruination or Toxic without any way to heal the damage off. Please do not run Iron Defense on it- just pair Corv with another physical wall like Skele and let Corv be your back-up physical check, and this also allows you to run U-Turn for big momentum.

Other Mons that I think deserve some changes:

B -> B+

B -> B+
Both good defensive Arceus formes with some not bad usage in UPL. They also have pretty good CM sets as well.

C+ -> B
Arceus-Poison is still pretty niche, but to me it's stood out more than a lot of the other Arceus formes that people felt sketchy about. It had some noticeable uses in UPL such as by Soulwind. The fact that it's immune to Toxic and absorbs T-Spikes makes it natural to run a CP/CM set-up that can be very hard to stop once it gets rolling, especially as it can burn Ground-types with WoW. It also works fantastically against Fast Taunt Arceus-Fairy sets, it can sorta check Korai as well, and it's a great switch-in to Eternatus who is very hard to switch-into otherwise.

C -> C+
Simply the best HO lead thanks to it's base 123 speed stat letting it outspeed Taunt Arceus. It also has access to low kick to prevent set-up from mons like Zacian-C and toxic spikes to abuse teams lacking a poison-type.

-> UR / D



I think these mons just genuinely don't have a niche.

 

[Taka]

I agree with a lot of what Manaphy is saying, here is what I would suggest for some of the mons.

S Rank
Koraidon
Miraidon

Nothing comes close to how meta defining these two are. Unlike everything else below, there is no consistent counterplay for either Pokemon.

S- Rank
Arceus-Fairy
Zacian-Crowned

I think these two Pokemon define the tier very similarly to the S ranks, but are just less splashable and easier to cover in the builder. Its also important to have a Fairy on nearly every single build, and these two are the best ones by far.

A+ Rank
Arceus-Ground
Ting-Lu

Arceus-Ground is still incredible, but as a defensive ground it faces issues by competing with Ting-Lu, Lando-T, and Groudon. As an offensive Ground, it still has issues such as taking a while to get through Ting-Lu + being overpowered by Koraidon / Miraidon regardless. Fairyceus has these issues but by virtue of its typing, it gets far more chances to come in. This is especially prevalent when Miraidon based teams are built around breaking through Ground-types, which makes it harder to use Groundceus as effectively without stacking weaknesses to mons like Koraidon and Kyogre.

A Rank
Arceus
Eternatus
Kyogre
Landorus-T
Skeledirge

Lando-T has seen a lot of UPL usage and is just generally an incredibly splashable mon. Arceus is not as good as it was before, with more checks becoming prevalent such as Lando-T, everpresent Skeledirge, Zacian-C, Koraidon, Gira-O, Wisp Arcs, etc.

A- Rank
Flutter Mane
Groudon
Mewtwo
Toxapex

I think Groudon has way too much competition to just sit at A+ in general, its still a solid enough mon so I'd place it at A-. Flutter Mane is another somewhat splashable Fairy and still thrives under the everpresent sun in this metagame (and lack of real Ghost-resists).


Edit:

also shoutout my main men Chien-Pao and Poisonceus. Both underrated in this meta

 

[Icemaster]

I have been playing some SV recently. I find that Zacian Crowned and Ting Lu are the best two mons in the meta for sure, for their sheer defensive presence (and Zacian C's sweeping ability / Ting Lu's ability to facilitate a sweep with his hazards).

I feel a LOT of playing SV comes to hazard management. And that is pretty much wholly dependent on your Ting Lu management - if your Ting Lu goes down to enemy Miraidon early you pretty much lose the game not just because you are now Miraidon weak but also because you have lost the hazard game entirely. Similarly, if you manage to use your Ting Lu aggressively early game AND not take big chip then you get a huge advantage. Zacian Crowned helps protect you from Miraidon and helps you do this.

Ting Lu: A+ -> S
Zacian-Crowned: Keep in S.
Miraidon: S -> S-
Koraidon: S -> S-
That's not to say Miraidon or Koraidon are any worse than they were, I just don't think they're on the level of Ting Lu or Zacian (who is the best mon). Miraidon is still helping you win the hazard game by blasting Ting Lu. Koraidon is still a crazy sweeper.

Other Noms:
Agree with the sentiment on Arceus Ground in this thread can go to A+, it's not as good as these.
Agree that EKiller is very overrated now. Meta adapted well to it. Probably an A mon.
Kyogre can go to A+. Very powerful, uses Tera well.
Toxapex is definitely as valuable or more valuable than Skeledirge, IMO. Skeledirge concedes a lot of momentum to Miraidon, Kyogre and Groundceus making it a liability oftentimes as it's very easy to core ZacianC with these to generate free turns for those mons. So Toxapex A, Skeledirge A-.

Summary:
Ting Lu A+ -> S
Zacian-Crowned: Keep in S.
Miraidon: S -> S-
Koraidon: S -> S-
Arc Ground: S -> A+
Arceus: A+ -> A
Kyogre: A -> A+
Toxapex: A- -> A
Skeledirge: A -> A-

 

[S-Matrix]

I have been playing some SV recently. I find that Zacian Crowned and Ting Lu are the best two mons in the meta for sure, for their sheer defensive presence (and Zacian C's sweeping ability / Ting Lu's ability to facilitate a sweep with his hazards).

I feel a LOT of playing SV comes to hazard management. And that is pretty much wholly dependent on your Ting Lu management - if your Ting Lu goes down to enemy Miraidon early you pretty much lose the game not just because you are now Miraidon weak but also because you have lost the hazard game entirely. Similarly, if you manage to use your Ting Lu aggressively early game AND not take big chip then you get a huge advantage. Zacian Crowned helps protect you from Miraidon and helps you do this.

Interesting, my own (very limited and still developing) experience of post-Home SV has been pretty different. It's possibly a result of the small sample size I'm drawing from in terms of battles played, but I've found that the recurring team structures I've been seeing lend themselves to games centered on removing specific defensive components which, more often than not, are running Boots. While this might diminish the value of hazards somewhat, I would also say that given how prominent Arceus-Fairy and Ground are, you're right in saying pex shouldn't be overlooked - Groundceus/Fairyceus (and the other defensive Arceus forms) obviously can't run Boots, and they certainly don't appreciate residual poison dmg. Understanding how to lure in the mons that can remove tspikes on entry by virtue of their typing (mainly clod, eternatus, pex, maybe some others I'm forgetting) can completely reorient long term goals as well and are good ways of creating opportunities to break down defensive cores with the proper wallbreakers.

 

[SiTuM]

Ting Lu: A+ -> S
Zacian-Crowned: Keep in S.
Miraidon: S -> S-
Koraidon: S -> S-

 

[8142e33]

hatt is definately better that garbage tusk and goth wtf

 

[Liquidocelot]

Imma nominate Blissey for B- at the minimum and I think she's being Hella slept on as she's on all my teams.

She's one of the few pokemon that can take 2 specs Miraidon hits in a row. She also makes a decent rocker, can deal consistent damage against pokes with no recovery thanks to Seismic toss.

Most importantly though. Blissey gets access to Heal bell which makes her the best team supportive mon in the tier. I can't run a team without Blissey these days. As with all the wisps and toxics being thrown around everywhere, T-spikes from Pex/Clod being amazing and more, Blissey makes teams so much more consistent and even on offensive teams allows you to pressure there defensive mons like Dirge much more since you can heal the burns. It also gives recovery to mons like Groudon and Gira, who can use rest and then be heal belled up, making them more consistent as well.

I just think she adds so much support to the team with heal bell not too mention all of the other roles she can compress as well. That she deserves to be in at least B- and not C tier she's in now.

 

[Vladimir Capuchin]

How is Zamazenta-C not D-tiered. It has a niche in Body press, but if you want a bulkier sweeper, defensive mirai, cresselia and even arceus can all be bulky yet sweep teams.

 

[Taka]

Nominating to C rank

Its not an amazing mon for sure, but it has utility thanks to its Fairy-typing and natural immunity to Ground letting it wall Dragon Claw variants of Groundceus, a good speed tier that lets it naturally outspeed most non Timid / Jolly Arceus formes as well as use Scarf to outspeed Zacian-C, and access to plentiful coverage and Healing Wish that lets it fit on more offensive teams.

It showed up twice in UPL, used by me and Inder, and put in a decent amount of work.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubers-702207
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubers-707347

 

[viivian]

not a nomination but rather a question, why is iron bundle in C rank? it genuinely seems tailormade to threaten some of the biggest threats in the tier with its STABs and speed tier, as well as being able to abuse the electric terrain miraidon constantly sets down to outspeed every pokemon in the game save for unboosted zacian-C (who can only really boost with trailblaze). and looking at the S and A tiers it can threaten every one of them through either its STABs or raw power alone. so why is it supposedly so bad?

 

[cyrtie]

I think you overestimate Iron Bundle's power, It probably doesnt even 2 hit ko kyogre with freeze dry, and while fast it isnt strong enough or bulky enough