you forgot that tera ground boosts it up to 60 bp, removing its only downsidemud slap great tusk is the new tech trust
pros:
doesn't get nerfed by breaking swipe's attack drain
STAB
lowers accuracy
can't miss
cons:
kinda weak
new tech indeed :D
you forgot that tera ground boosts it up to 60 bp, removing its only downsidemud slap great tusk is the new tech trust
pros:
doesn't get nerfed by breaking swipe's attack drain
STAB
lowers accuracy
can't miss
cons:
kinda weak
I've been using Iron Moth lately and I'll admit, it can still be pretty OP, but it gets trashed by G-Fire all the same. GFire is just WAY too bulky and doesn't take enough damage from Sludge Wave. You need to properly align your pieces so that Iron Moth fishes for a Fiery dance boost on something else before GFire is coming in order to beat it.Just gonna say this but if you are fearing that sun is taking over as the new oppressive archtype.... there is a forgotten threat that used to be in OU you know. Iron Moth!
Just destroyed an entire sun team with this mon on this ladder including Gouging Fire. In fact if any sun teams are in any disadvantagous position it is easy for Moth to just sweep them entirely. Sun also has some very easy to exploit mons like Torkoal or Walking Wake that just dropped a Draco so it is easy for Moth to just end behind a sub too. The only hope they have is roaring moon but only if Moth is not behind a sub and encore H-Lily which they have to position really well and chances are Moth already claimed a bunch of kills. I would love to post replays but at this point I have probably posted so much of them, it might seem like spamming
That said I understand that Gouging Fire can look completely overwhelming sometimes. The set-up variants can find a lot of opportunities to setup thanks to it its bulk and good typing. Despite it's variety, you can guess which set it is based on which Protoboost it has(although stuff like offensive Morning sun is not that rare as well). I usually play really aggressively against those variants as not to give them too many boost and they are not that threatning offensivley at +1.
CB variants in the sun: I feel guilty for using him and but I have so much fun with this mon (both attack and speed variants). Just turn your brain off, and click the button. Even Dragonite with Multiscale takes around half and he doesn't even KO you back with earthquake . Even if he doesn't outright sweep teams, the opponent will be forced to Tera their bulkiest mon which opens up other breakers and sweepers. Wanna save up that Tera for Gambit? Too bad, you gonna have to Tera your Lando JUST to get any type of chip against this mon and not let it devour your whole team. Which makes fighting Gambit a lot less frustrating, ironically. Best counters are bulky flash fire mons , other weather and a very bulky variant of Gouging Fire himself. Walking Wake can only come in once.
Not gonna say whetever he is broken or not though. I am having a lot of fun with this mon and I will be sad if he will be gone. There IS counterplay but I am not gonna judge if it is gonna be sufficient.
"If it is one vs one always bet on Gouging Fire". True, if it is simply GF vs Iron Moth then GF will come out on top. But that is not what you are supposed to do. As I said, Sun has alot of exploitable mons like Torkoal, Walking Wake that just dropped a Draco, Hatt that Iron Moth can come in on. Those are also invaluable pieces to sun as well so they can't just sack them(except maybe Hatt). I also just run Tera Ground to just cleanly 2HKO GF and deal with Heatran. Sometimes it is not even about sweeping. Moth can get at least 2 Kills if properly positioned and can ease burden of other teammates even if it falls.I've been using Iron Moth lately and I'll admit, it can still be pretty OP, but it gets trashed by G-Fire all the same. GFire is just WAY too bulky and doesn't take enough damage from Sludge Wave. You need to properly align your pieces so that Iron Moth fishes for a Fiery dance boost on something else before GFire is coming in order to beat it.
132 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 160-190 (45.5 - 54.1%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 132 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 240-283 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Sub probably is the play in the current metagame though. I've been using 4 Attacks, which may be why I've been struggling. Will give it a try and see how it goes.
I 100% agree with this.My hot take:
I think Kingambit is more oppressive than Raging Bolt. I'm seeing them being compared a lot, and I think Kingambit is due for a retest now that we are presumably at the end of the DLC pipeline.
Kingambit has arguably a much better defensive typing. It's immune to toxic and resists rocks. Nothing is immune to its dark STAB which notably threatens all but the bulkiest resists. It also epitomizes making use of multiple tera types. Meanwhile, Raging Bolt relies on weather to overcome many of its checks, restricting the playstyles where it can leverage its full power.
I think it is interesting to look at how stall answers these two mons since a well-built stall team has to defensively answer every relevant threat to some capacity. For Kingambit, Dondozo is typically the check of choice. However, it needs tera fighting to check the tera dark Kingambits which means saving tera all the way to the endgame just to wait and see if Kingambit is actually tera dark. The alternative go-to is Talonflame of all things because it has a fast wisp. This is considered a significant enough niche that stall players consider tflame to be a top 10 option on stall despite being a mon that on paper has no business in OU. On the other hand, Raging Bolt is fairly simple to check. Clodsire handles any variant without weather ball, and Blissey walls it easily. There is no cheeky tera type that allows Bolt to bypass Blissey. Blissey is free to run whatever tera type it wants.
This is not to say that banworthiness can be determined solely by how many hoops stall has to jump through to beat it. If that were the case, Stored Power (wouldn't mind that), Ursaluna, and Hoopa-U would be banned. However, if we're getting ready to suspect Raging Bolt, it can't be ignored that Kingambit is not only similar but also arguably better.
Congrats on your peak, team on paper doesn't look bad.I just reached 1444 on showdown. My current team is Zamazenta, Goodra-H, Enamorous, Roaring Moon, Ditto and Blastoise (still testing Blastoise)
Roaring Moon and Zamazenta are incredibly broken. I have swept hole teams with both.
I'm also sick of battling the same rain teams. Get original.
The most overrated pokemon is still imo Kingambit. I'm truly surprised by the fuss.
I know that you are trying to say that gambit and bolt have some defensive use in the tier, but I think this is a bit of a bad faith arguement. I know your not trying to say it that way, but let's look at what would happen.Ok real talk: if we ban kingambit and raging bolt it's gonna be completely chaos. Ghosts get 100x better, especially Dragapult as it jumps from almost-busted to super-busted. Ghold makes a resurgence making it that much harder to remove hazards as excadrill (and sand by proxy) drops because its typing isn't that great anymore. Kyurem completely shatters the tier with specs ice beams, and a bunch of busted setup sweepers lose a revenge killing option i.e. enam wogerpon barra volc valiant serp and tera'd moon. Darkrai actually might make a resurgence as nasty plot LO loses one great check and doesn't have to slot FB, freeing up space for ice beam, sludge bomb, thunder, maybe even options like WoW or Knock. We're gonna need at LEAST 3 more bans (moon pult gouging) with the possibility of more depending on what emerges. It is crazy how much role compression gambit (and to a lesser extent Bolt) has for a setup sweeper.
Not saying we shouldn't, I personally would welcome the reining in of power creep, but it's something to keep aware of
What is this? You know these Mons don’t only have Elemental STABs, right? I hope this is a joke.Having trouble with the three dragons, well these mons can deal with them fully.
Gouging Fire: Tera fairy air balloon Heatran, Chandlure, Ceruledge, H-Arcanine, Arcanine, Armarouge, Coalossal, Ninetales, Typhlosion, Flareon and Houndoom.
Raging bolt: Tera fairy mons with either lightning rod, volt absorb or motor drive. List of mons include: Kilowattrel, Thundurus-T, Jolteon, Pawmot, Lanturn, Minun, Pachirisu, Rhyperior, Pinchurchin, Plusle, Raichu, Zebstrika and Electivire. I prefer Jolteon since you have alluring voice to not have to use tera fairy blast.
Roaring Moon: Air balloon on regirock, Tyranitar, Klefki, Diancie, Tinkaton and Kingambit.
Moon is the hardest to completely wall as these counters take resisted damage from moon's moves and aren't immune to all of them.
All these mons are either resistant or immune to the most common sets that these mons run. For example, Tera Fairy Heatran with Air balloon completely walls gouging fire as it is immune to all of fire, dragon and ground.What is this? You know these Mons don’t only have Elemental STABs, right? I hope this is a joke.
Most of these Mons are useless against anything else. Having to burn Tera isn’t great as an answer to something.All these mons are either resistant or immune to the most common sets that these mons run. For example, Tera Fairy Heatran with Air balloon completely walls gouging fire as it is immune to all of fire, dragon and ground.
Oh I know, it's just kinda funny how the two that people have more problems with technically have mons that are completely immune to the most common sets moves. I would never run tera fairy flash fire houndoom or tera fairy motor drive zebstrika, but hey, they still can blank every common move.Most of these Mons are useless against anything else. Having to burn Tera isn’t great as an answer to something.
I have missed too many magma storms to count and I gotta say, both fuck that move and thank god it exists. Without it, Heatran would be worse off, but with it you have to pray you don't miss. Like why the hell couldn't it be at least 80% accurate, like they nerfed the power of it from 120 to 100 when they made the trapping damage do more, but they didn't do the same for other trapping moves. It feels like they just didn't want Heatran to thrive.I've seen a few people say it and it's true, heatran is only good 75% of the time. Magma storm/ taunt to remove something like G-slowking or clodsire is nasty work. If you miss though, or you're up against HO, it doesfor the entire game. Balloon steels is reason #1 why I always run rock coverage on clodsire as well.sweet fuck all
Give it some time and let the brews beginsCrazy that it's been 2 days since 1 mon was banned and it's already in discussion who's next getting the ban? And all that not long after the Kyurem suspect test. That says a lot of the state of the tier lol.
OK first of all, I wasn't arguing against gambit. I said in my post I'd welcome a ban. But I think you're being a bit inaccurate with your analysis here.I know that you are trying to say that gambit and bolt have some defensive use in the tier, but I think this is a bit of a bad faith arguement. I know your not trying to say it that way, but let's look at what would happen.
Everybody say's dragapult would become super busted and I just don't see it. It is fast, and can be annoying, but it is not kept in check by just gambit. If we didn't have 6 other fucking dark types, then yeah it could be an issue, but right now it isn't and won't be for a while. Ghold usage rising wouldn't really be that much as while gambit is an amazing counter to it, stuff like focus miss and even tera fairy dazzling gleam can deal with gambit, though to varying degrees of success. Kyurem is arguably already broken as you can just earth power gambit and it most likely will die, idk calcs so don't trust me on that, but it can work if it is chipped. Enam can break through gambit with superpower, so there is that, waterpon can again deal with gambit decently well with low kick, barra can use mystic water sets if it hates gambit (People fall for it every time), volcarona can easily use tera fairy to beat gambit, valiant quad resists sucker so lol no gambit is not a counter, serp has to use tera so it now can be countered easier, moon teraing is interesting, but a smart moon player will not tera. Darkrai again is kept in check by more than just gambit, and using focus blast isn't the worst thing as it would have to deal with other steel types like heatran.
All of the mons mentioned get better, sure, but not so much more that they become unmanageable. If gambit is the only thing keeping them in check, I would say you would need to ban them regardless if gambit is banned because one mon keeping a mon from ruining the tier is unhealthy.