I’m slightly surprised that Incineroar didn’t even make top 100 usage in OU. CHESNAUGHT was used more. smh people sleeping on the goat
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
The context of this image will be lost to time.
Anyways, so my thoughts on the usage stats.
For anyone confused with why Pex managed to stay, it is because of Balance picking up in usage. While it is passive, it is still a solid Water resist/Regen pivot that has found itself a place on the more bulkier side of the metagame. It helps teams play around Skeledirge, Walking Wake, Valiant, and Rain.
Corv is another case of a gen 8 defensive wall overlooked due to it’s passivity but picked up usage in the new meta. If you’ve noticed from the teams of the week, two teams used Corv as a Defogger with no Tusk. Corv has a fantastic matchup vs spike stacking Boots Balance teams, many of which have straight up ditched Gholdengo. Corv has other qualities over Skarm. Pressure helps with its ability to Defog, and to wear out low pp moves like Serp’s Leaf Storms. U-Turn is a major thing it has over Skarm, letting it slow pivot out of bad matchups. Corv also has better special bulk, which is helpful with matchups like Kyu, Clef, or Primarina. Corv + Tusk is generally a good hazard removal core. Corv excels in Defogging vs Balance while Tusk threatens faster spike stacking builds with the funny cheese stick man.
I’m surprised these two aren’t much higher in usage considering Meow/Kyu Balance is one of the best builds rn. Meowscarada is arguably Top 3 due to how easily it could force progress, and while Skarm can be exploitable, it has such massive role compression that it rivals Tusk in the splashability department imo. A Gambit check, ground immune, physical wall, steel type, and spike setter in one. It could be due to Meow/Skarm builds popping up later in the month, hence why it isn’t that high. Nevertheless, they may not be the Tusk/Gambit/Ghold trio, but this duo is a defining force in the tier.
It is unfortunate to see Hydrapple drop to UU, but it is understandable. We have fierce competition with other specially attacking dragons like Rbolt, Pult, Latios, and Kyu. The latter is especially threatening to Hydrapple. It has a unique niche over the others with its defensive profile, but Rbolt and Kyu are more threatening offensively.
this is going to turn into a vicious cycle. people are gonna start running corv again because ghold usage dropped, then everyone is gonna start running ghold again because people are running corv, then people are gonna stop running corv because everyone's running ghold, then ghold usage is gonna drop because no one is running corv…
Lead deoxys sets are by far the worst. Nasty plot and 4 attacks mixed both can beat pretty much any "answer" and revenge half the tier. Dragapult doesn't have nearly the same speed tier, lacks coverage, and doesn't have nearly as scary of a setup move. It also lacks knock and has much worse mixed attacking potential.
To me, Kyurem and Gouging Fire are the main Pokemon that are worth focusing on right now.
is potent with the combination of Ice STAB (Ice Beam and Freeze Dry) + Earth Power being challenging to switch into. Tera Ground also helps bolster Earth Power damage into Slowking-Galar, Kingambit, Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and so on while Tera Ice, especially on Choice Specs variants, can pop off to make Ice moves too strong for bulkier Pokemon taking neutral damage to withstand. Boots is personally my favorite set right now due to longevity and some cool fourth options. Scale Shot is nice to let it potentially circumvent revenge killing options while blowing back stall Blissey, Rock Slide is awesome for Volcarona if your Kyurem is paired with Enamorus, Gholdengo, Serperior, or another Pokemon that appreciates Volcarona being lured, and other options like Draco Meteor, Dragon Tail, or Blizzard with Chilly Reception support are surely viable, too. Counterplay to Kyurem exists, but is pretty limited and does not make teambuilding very fun to say the least. Finally, it is one freeze away from picking off kills a lot of the time and it is able to get a decent amount of Ice moves off each game, so that is an awkward dynamic, too.
is very hard to keep in check as games drag on. A healthy Gliscor or Great Tusk can likely 1v1 it or at very least assure it does not sweep you depending upon the sets. However, with access to Morning Sun, Dragon Dance, and a frankly unreasonable amount of natural physical bulk, Gouging Fire is giving off vibes similar to that of some previously unhealthy bulky boosters. It has all of the offensive tools needed to sweep within STAB options and Earthquake, especially in tandem with Tera Ground, and it even provides some defensive merit to teams, checking Serp/Volc if they do not exhaust Tera and soft checking some other Pokemon regardless of Tera, too. I find counterplay to exist, but not be reliable and sturdy enough without going too far out of your way.
I think you can make a good argument for
or 
, but personally I want to see the former a bit more while the latter I have found more manageable as we have adapted to it. I also know people are discussing Kingambot and Gholdengo -- we hear ya, but I do not view either as priority #1 right now or necessarily gamebreaking (willing to entertain all discussion though).
is potent with the combination of Ice STAB (Ice Beam and Freeze Dry) + Earth Power being challenging to switch into. Tera Ground also helps bolster Earth Power damage into Slowking-Galar, Kingambit, Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and so on while Tera Ice, especially on Choice Specs variants, can pop off to make Ice moves too strong for bulkier Pokemon taking neutral damage to withstand. Boots is personally my favorite set right now due to longevity and some cool fourth options. Scale Shot is nice to let it potentially circumvent revenge killing options while blowing back stall Blissey, Rock Slide is awesome for Volcarona if your Kyurem is paired with Enamorus, Gholdengo, Serperior, or another Pokemon that appreciates Volcarona being lured, and other options like Draco Meteor, Dragon Tail, or Blizzard with Chilly Reception support are surely viable, too. Counterplay to Kyurem exists, but is pretty limited and does not make teambuilding very fun to say the least. Finally, it is one freeze away from picking off kills a lot of the time and it is able to get a decent amount of Ice moves off each game, so that is an awkward dynamic, too. is very hard to keep in check as games drag on. A healthy Gliscor or Great Tusk can likely 1v1 it or at very least assure it does not sweep you depending upon the sets. However, with access to Morning Sun, Dragon Dance, and a frankly unreasonable amount of natural physical bulk, Gouging Fire is giving off vibes similar to that of some previously unhealthy bulky boosters. It has all of the offensive tools needed to sweep within STAB options and Earthquake, especially in tandem with Tera Ground, and it even provides some defensive merit to teams, checking Serp/Volc if they do not exhaust Tera and soft checking some other Pokemon regardless of Tera, too. I find counterplay to exist, but not be reliable and sturdy enough without going too far out of your way. I think you can make a good argument for
or , but personally I want to see the former a bit more while the latter I have found more manageable as we have adapted to it. I also know people are discussing Kingambot and Gholdengo -- we hear ya, but I do not view either as priority #1 right now or necessarily gamebreaking (willing to entertain all discussion though).i've gone back and forth on gouging fire. initially i was freaked out by the ddance sets, then i was like "oh wait, it has a lot of defensive utility, that might be the premier set, this mon's fine", then i saw the banded sun dondozo calcs, then i realized heatran exists and there's decent offensive counterplay, then the survey came out and i scored it low, then i started running the triple dino death barrage team and realized that heatran does not in fact exist and most of the offensive counterplay still involves losing 1 mon at minimum, and usually more because the stats giving it the aforementioned defensive utility also make it an absolute bitch to revenge-kill. as it stands, i'll miss the defensive bulwark sets, but i do ultimately think gouging fire needs to goTo me, Kyurem and Gouging Fire are the main Pokemon that are worth focusing on right now.
I think you can make a good argument for
i have not for a single second changed my stance on kyurem, that thing is nuts
dawg what in the holy and unapproachable name of god his own absolute self are you talking about. i appreciate your willingness to contribute to the conversation but i seriously have no idea what you're trying to say 90% of the time
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mirror matches typically don't factor into the banworthiness conversation. if a mon's best answer is itself, that's already an indication of a problem. that was a major factor in the gliscor ban in dlc1—the only reliable and consistent answer to gliscor was another gliscor
for the record, i never mentioned freeze clause. i don't think freeze has been a genuine actionable problem since about gen 4 or 5. i think it's actually less of a problem now than it's been in the last several generations because of how good sun is now
I straight up think Gouging Fire and Kyurem are broken in this tier. Kyurem is horrifying when you don't know if it'll hit you with a specs special move or start dancing. It's also way too bulky to reliably revenge kill.
Meanwhile people should really look at Gouging Fire's bulk. Like, look at the numbers. Bulkier than Gambit in every stat, weirdly fast for something that tanky, and with solid enough attack to be a mega threat after one boost. It is unbelievably optimized stat-wise and hilariously easy to snowball with.
One thing I don't feel is even a little broken yet is Deoxys-Speed, but maybe I'm just not fighting the right people. It's always missing crucial damage thresholds, although that could just be low rolls I'm seeing.
Meanwhile people should really look at Gouging Fire's bulk. Like, look at the numbers. Bulkier than Gambit in every stat, weirdly fast for something that tanky, and with solid enough attack to be a mega threat after one boost. It is unbelievably optimized stat-wise and hilariously easy to snowball with.
One thing I don't feel is even a little broken yet is Deoxys-Speed, but maybe I'm just not fighting the right people. It's always missing crucial damage thresholds, although that could just be low rolls I'm seeing.
I just think freeze clause should be implemented because the effect is basically sleep but even worse unless the target has a move that thaws it. And even then, it’s so tilting when your opponent gets lucky and freezes two of your checks to Kyurem and you auto lose.
forums gave me a lot of trouble trying to upload this one, had to compress it quite a bit
CobsonYaoi
formerly Holesum420
Didn't Blaziken have the title of worst dropped Uber or are we only talking Gen 9?
Blaziken was UU in Gen 8, so it's not coming straight from Ubers like Deoxys-Defense was.
the awards are per-generation. there is a "lifetime achievement" version that aegislash won last gen, though. this gen, it's probably going to hoopa-u or mew. (wynaut and wobbuffet are purposely excluded)
CobsonYaoi
formerly Holesum420
Oh I see mb.
Happy new year to everyone,
Quick thoughts on the meta, think it's pretty balanced as is, personally i view the current meta with kyurem, g.fire, moon out, pecharunt in, to be a very healthy one, with nothing overbearing from there on, and with solid mons currently overshadowed being freed, like hydrapple, mola etc.
Quick thoughts on the meta, think it's pretty balanced as is, personally i view the current meta with kyurem, g.fire, moon out, pecharunt in, to be a very healthy one, with nothing overbearing from there on, and with solid mons currently overshadowed being freed, like hydrapple, mola etc.
Tiering survey results: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/page-2#post-9916437
since around 50% of people support kokoloko tiering and around 50% don't, we should pair all the qualified pro-kokoloko people with qualified anti-kokoloko people and hold an informal, non-binding tournament to decide whose view is correct. we can call it "might makes right" or something. it doesn't have to actually factor into decision-making at all because that would be a ridiculous way to decide things, but it'd be fun!
OU just hogging every Unawaremon in the dex.
OU still with their Skarmory obsession.
Why is OU like this?
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Unaware mons are a great boon against the myriad of set up sweepers, and the more the merrier it seems. Just dont expect it to defend against Protosynthesis and Quark Drive mons, since those boosts dont count apparently.
Skarmory probably has defog. Its a better Metal/Flying than Corviknight, I think. I dont pay as much attention to the rusty aviary as i should.
CobsonYaoi
formerly Holesum420
I'm glad people eventually realized that Deoxys-S wasn't all that it was hyped up to be. It's may do a lot of things but it's not particularly good at anything, but I don't think it'll drop to UU anytime soon.
God I wish I had the patience to write more detailed posts
God I wish I had the patience to write more detailed posts
and suddenly to everyones surprise, skarm has regained its spot as the steel-flying type.
It doesn't have defog but the combination of whirlwind and spikes is a lot better than u-turn and defog on corv. Those are still great tools but skarm's higher defense stat is better as corv can't beat special attackers any more.
The main reason now why I would want Deo-S banned is due to it's centralisation of the lead metagame. If you want to set up hazards, its it or hamurott and very rarely glimmora. I miss when leads were diverse.
So I got my alt team where I’m trying to use Ampharos to drag him to OU, and facing a decent looking OU team, and Kyurem wrecks everything because of ONE freeze.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2024972129-0sr1h0dfdk9p8bo405qw3b2ppyu7a0cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2024972129-0sr1h0dfdk9p8bo405qw3b2ppyu7a0cpw
That team you faced was really weak to ice, only zama and clefable could take ice moves and even then, they aren't good on the special defense side. They have four mons weak to ice, you were going to win one way or another.