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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Key word here is somewhat
Sadly, that probably won't be the case. It's ability poison puppeteer means that pokemon that are poisoned by its moves will also be confused, which is going to be annoying to deal with. It has toxic, which means it has a 100% accurate posioning and confusing move. Apart from that, yeah it is pretty great and we'll probably see it on January 11th.
I know, I just couldn't resist.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the council decided to pull a crown tundra though?
It would've been absolute insanity.
Annoying yes,for sure, but not broken or uncompetitive imo. It'll have great role compression as an alternative physical wall that can pivot (reminiscent of glowking, as far as defensive poison pivots go, but on the physical side). Plus, its annoying aspects might become more visible for ho cores, who often lack a toxic immunity (outside of dengo n' gambit), than to other playstyles.
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Well it’s still true though. Gen 9 (and technically Gen 8) introduced some batshit insane stuff and Gen 9 I believe has the large number of bans out of any generation.
Like Flutter Mane is literally just better Spectrier, Chi-yu can nuke harder than Kyogre, and Chien-pao has effectively 173 Atk while outspeeding almost everything.
Not to mention this was the gen that Garchomp and Heatran fell to UU at some point. Darkrai finally got into OU, and so did Zamazenta.
Powercreep this gen is insane and Smogon had to do a lot of work to fix things given the constraints they put on themselves.
To be more precise as it pertains to what i meant, i was talking about the meta after dlc2, not ou's previous iterations. And it goes without saying that it would be a mess if a large number of bans hadn't already taken place. We are well past the point that only box legendary mons are banned and as new mons get added on each gen, as well as new gimmicks, more smogon balancing of the meta will be necessairy. That's a given by this point. But it's cool to see a generally balanced meta a week into dlc2, with only one extra ban thus far (and with all the obviously broken shit well outta our way)
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Yeah in that case I can agree that DLC2 for SV was more level headed. Besides Terapagos, who is supposed to be 3rd legendary like Rayquaza and Giratina, nothing introduced is just blatantly overpowered. Closest is Iron Boulder. If it naturally had a better typing it’s 100% be Ubers.
Also I’m surprised how tame and lame Stellar type is.
Stellar's really underwhelming, honestly. STAB on everything but once each is almost always worse than one extra STAB or double STAB or even swapping your defenses. Everyone's speculation for this was way off.
EXCEPT MINE.
Not even STAB boost on everything. It's JUST a x1.2 boost to every type you're not once + one time adaptability STABs to your own type. I wish the buffs were permanent because Stellar type (namely Tera Blast) is a great counter to other teras in theory. But of course you can't simply just have Stellar type be hitting everything neutrally. It also needs to hit drop your offenses when you use Tera Blast too and it drops from 120 BP to 100 BP after 1 use.
I wish stellar type was just how normal tera worked, would probably be much less controversial and pretty fun to play with.
Meta is mad fun, ngl not super interested in quickbans, and I actually think deo-s is fine. Could get worse, but could get better imo, better to wait out either way.
If you put a gun to my head and said what to suspect id say rip the tera bandaid and just run tera suspect 3 electric boogaloo so we actually know what we're going to have as our definitive ruleset
Meta is mad fun, ngl not super interested in quickbans, and I actually think deo-s is fine. Could get worse, but could get better imo, better to wait out either way.
If you put a gun to my head and said what to suspect id say rip the tera bandaid and just run tera suspect 3 electric boogaloo so we actually know what we're going to have as our definitive ruleset
How would Stellar type work as a regular old tera type?
The threats I'm having most trouble with are Darkrai, Roaring Moon and Iron Boulder. Dealing with Darkrai becomes a bit of guess work as its either Specs, Scarf or it can set up an NP and is hard to revenge kill given only 3 Pokemon naturally outspeed it. Not to mention Hypnosis which is too unreliable but very dumb to deal with when it hits. Moons DD Acro set is still too strong and Boulder had pretty good defensive stats and gets to a ridiculous speed tier with Proto.
Balancing efforts
Rillaboom grassy glide nerfed from 70BP to 55BP
meanwhile..
- jet punch water type with slaking attack and can get a 50% boost in rain: exists
- Ghost/fairy with minmax stats and useable ability: exists
- Water/ice with minmax stats and useable ability: exists
I got two words for you. Power Creep.
No but seriously, c'mon do you think they will just not add any Ubers this gen so we can play around with weaker mons? No? That's just how GF works, releasing some ridonkulously broken mons and balancing everything else. I'd argue that in your Balancing Efforts I could put the overall power level being higher as a way to even out the tiers, (even if GF just cares about VGC they managed to do something this time).
Also, does Aroma Veil block Psychic Noise from being clicked or just the effects of it? It is in the ability description that Aroma Veil protects user/allies from Attract, Disable, Encore, Heal Block, Taunt and Torment.
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Latias is A tier and Alolomola should be higher too.
Where the hell is Primarina? Thanks to alluring voice, psyquic noice, its typing and bulk its a great slow flip turn that still hits hard and has some unique utility tools.
I was going to make a half serious post on how iron bundle could maybe be balanced but then I just double checked his stats to be sure and whew he really does have 136 base speed. What the fuck.
Anyway, can we free fishy, fishy is frail and gets outsped and killed by half of the tier, come on,I can be trusted with sun boosted bead of ruin overheats
Darkrai does not have that issue, it's either choice or slow. I know that only 3 pokemon naturally outspeed it, but that word is making some heavy lifting: most mons run at least one scarfer/boosted speed mon nowdays, making Darkrai manegable in my experience.
Anyway, can we free fishy, fishy is frail and gets outsped and killed by half of the tier, come on,
I feel the same way about moon and boulder, but I feel that is partly a booster energy problem. +1 Rmoon or boulder are very very hard to outspeed and hit very hard.
Darkrai does not have that issue, it's either choice or slow. I know that only 3 pokemon naturally outspeed it, but that word is making some heavy lifting: most mons run at least one scarfer/boosted speed mon nowdays, making Darkrai manegable in my experience.
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 560-660 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
No.
If there is a Pokemon that could be brought back, it’s Annihilape. It seems like the DLC was somewhat tailored made to nerfing Annihilape.
If you Tera Normal while spamming Psychic Noise the standard Annihilape set literally can’t touch you. Psychic Noise completely prevents Drain Punch from being used and you’re immune to Rage Fist due to being Normal. There are also Normal types that learn it too.
I’m not actually serious about the whole thing, but Psychic Noise really gimps Annihilape.
I’m not actually serious about the whole thing, but Psychic Noise really gimps Annihilape.
Yeah fishy good in sun but fishy also dies before firing. Don't switch a wall in front of fishy!!
That annihilape psychic noise stuff is very funny.
The amount of things Chi-Yu can oneshot is absurd. It’s also 100 Speed so it outspeeds plenty especially with Scarf and still has good SpD. It’s bulk combine with Fire’s resistances is more than enough to switch in and get free KOs.
Also why unban Chi-Yu and not Kyogre? Or Rayquaza? Or several other Ubers who are even slower and only a bit bulkier?
i don't think you can honestly say Kyogre is "only a bit bulkier" than chi-yu, Kyogre's 100/90/140 paired with one of the best defensive tipings in the game is not comparable to fishy's 55/80/120.
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre: 107-126 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 76.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chi-Yu: 118-139 (47 - 55.3%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
I don't see these as comparable tbh.
I really haven't seen much of gambit recently, but it's probably just the new toy syndrome, i bet the mon is as broken as ever.
Ghold after the dlc does not seem as problematic, both the new entries that threaten it and the added coverage on a lot of mons make it more manageable.
I do feel the same way. I think Ghold could become more problematic later onwards, it felt rather manageable at times before too after all. Gambit though really needs to go. It still strains team building was too much. Honestly I think it's still more broken than anything currently, I can imagine Deo S becoming manageable in a few days, I don't think Gambit will ever be unproblematic
Eh, Darkrai and Zamazenta were nerfed pretty heavily, which is why they can exist in this Gens OU. Losing Toxic also hurt Heatran's viability a fair bit.
Yeah, there's definitely been power creep this gen. Some mons like Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, and Palifin are pretty crazy. But the nerfing of Pokemon, their movesets and nerfing moves themselves, is the biggest reason why this Gen fells so different from the previous ones.
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