Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[RyukTheDarkrai]

Enamorus and Serperior come to mind first.
I also like to believe that Iron Valiant would make for a good Stellar type option. A lot of fast hard hitting Pokemon or Contrary Pokemon would be ideal for Stellar Tera. You want to use it to counter Pokemon who use it defensively, which is a lot of Pokemon really. Like for example using it to counter Kingambit.

I think Stellar Tera is worse off on Serperior than something like Fire or even Dragon. You only receive a +1 boost from Tera Blast, which is worse than that of Leaf Storm’s +2 and lose out on the ability to hit Grass resists or what have you for super effective damage. I believe it’ll certainly see some use on Valiant and Enamorus though.

 

[Avira]

Without stored power both would be completely manageable- top mons but manageable and worth consideration at least. Stored power cracks both.

Nope. Terapagos-Stellar is broken even without Stored Power. And Magearna is arguably broken with its Choice Specs set, which doesn't even use Stored Power.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

This mon would've 1000% been banned even without the ability to Mega Evolve, it's Mag 2.0 with better Multiscale. Guess the set or lose.

Yeah, and has 120/110/120 bulk while Terapagos-Terastal has 95/110/110 and is locked into stellar tera (no way to change out of pure normal), Cress has reliable healing (Moonlight) while Terapagos is stuck with rest and Cress gets stab for a boost on stored power strength.

 

[Real Pikachu]

You guys do realize that the mon was good without Stored Power, right? It was Magearna because it has a bunch of relevant sets and if you guessed the set wrong you just lost the game or at least a huge amount of momentum. It was an absolutely absurd revenge killer even without setup because of better multiscale.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

On the topic of low-tier getting OU usage, I do think some lower tier mons might potentially have a small niche once the meta starts to settle, mainly with some movepool additions from the 2nd DLC. I'm not saying which ones, but I'm sure some will eventually find a niche

you can't just leave us hanging like that man, c'mon, spill the beans! if morkal could find a microniche for spidops and kricketune, i'm sure we can squeeze a few drops of usability out of whatever it is you have in mind. i promise not to laugh unless it's dewgong or glaceon

 

[MasterPlayer]

I've been thinking of maybe Specially Defensive Flareon as a bulky Fire-type that can take on most Gholdengo variants, isn't afraid of it's coverage (somehow lives Specs Power Gem) and can nuke it with Flare Blitz even without attack investment (0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 338-402 (107.3 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO). Would not recommend using it until the hazard situation settles, however, because the SR weakness really hurts and it can even take itself out in the process of KOing Gholdengo because of the recoil damage.

 

[coral fan]

I've been thinking of maybe Specially Defensive Flareon as a bulky Fire-type that can take on most Gholdengo variants, isn't afraid of it's coverage (somehow lives Specs Power Gem) and can nuke it with Flare Blitz even without attack investment (0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 338-402 (107.3 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO). Would not recommend using it until the hazard situation settles, however, because the SR weakness really hurts and it can even take itself out in the process of KOing Gholdengo because of the recoil damage.

but why not use spdef Gouging Fire, Volcarona or Heatran?

 

[MasterPlayer]

Those 3 are probably better at doing that job, but but if you don't want to use any of those 3, then Flareon exists as an option, which might mandate a bit more support than the others

 

[Welcome to mars]

but why not use spdef Gouging Fire, Volcarona or Heatran?

Because, choice specs glaceon is too hard to switch into, flareons one of only pokemon that switch into ice beam without fearing mud shot, it also has will o wisp to prank rock types like stonejourner, rhydon and klawf, offensive carkol is the only stone edge clicker that can safely switch into flareon without fearing a burn, and if its not offensive then golduck can switch in for 12 pesos

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I've been thinking of maybe Specially Defensive Flareon as a bulky Fire-type that can take on most Gholdengo variants, isn't afraid of it's coverage (somehow lives Specs Power Gem) and can nuke it with Flare Blitz even without attack investment (0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 338-402 (107.3 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO). Would not recommend using it until the hazard situation settles, however, because the SR weakness really hurts and it can even take itself out in the process of KOing Gholdengo because of the recoil damage.

unfortunately, i don't think there's much that flareon can do as a defensive fire-type/ghold answer that isn't directly outclassed by gouging fire (which i keep calling "gouging flame" accidentally). gouging fire has more special bulk, way more physical bulk, a better speed tier (notably, it outspeeds gholdengo), an ability that doesn't rely on it being on a short timer, ground coverage, reliable recovery, status and protect in a single move, and the potent burning bulwark/temper flare/stomping tantrum combo that can be very punishing for switch-ins. the only relevant areas i can think of where flareon does better in this role are raw damage output with flare blitz in the absence of sun (which is offset by the recoil damage—not something you typically want in a defensive role unless your name is dondozo) and somewhat of a better defensive profile against kyurem due to its ice resistance and lack of a dragon weakness, but both it and gouging fire get rocked by earth power/ground tera blast anyway

 

[Heatranator]

Okay, blaziken is kinda fire right now. I don't think its broken or anything, just very good. I've been using this white herb set.
Blaziken @ White Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Blaze Kick
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
Blake kick is just so you can survive longer, though flare blitz is also good. Also, Incineroar is alright in the meta. Any physical attacker that is not fighting type it can take on, like gouging flare and gambit, and threaten them with knock off or close combat.
Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Close Combat
It's alright, but not amazing. Goes well with rillaboom or gliscor.

 

[blueman164]

Who do you all think would be the best users of Psychic Noise? It's a move that's really captured my interest and I would love to give it a shot on a team.

 

[j0nathan]

Who do you all think would be the best users of Psychic Noise? It's a move that's really captured my interest and I would love to give it a shot on a team.

So i used it on Primarina, for no particular reason. The only time it really helped was against a Toxapex with Recover.

 

[Ehmcee]

Who do you all think would be the best users of Psychic Noise? It's a move that's really captured my interest and I would love to give it a shot on a team.

I quite like it on Latios, it's probably the best user of it in combination with specs. It's main switchin Gholdengo also hates getting heal blocked, making it susceptible to losing the next interaction after you switch out.

In theory it also sounds very strong against stall, regenerator mons don't particularly like switching into a specs boosted psychic move from latios other than like, slowking and Reuniclus, so Latios seems like a great mon to break it down.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

I quite like it on Latios, it's probably the best user of it in combination with specs. It's main switchin Gholdengo also hates getting heal blocked, making it susceptible to losing the next interaction after you switch out.

In theory it also sounds very strong against stall, regenerator mons don't particularly like switching into a specs boosted psychic move from latios other than like, slowking and Reuniclus, so Latios seems like a great mon to break it down.

I don't think Psychic Noise is particularly notable vs stall bc Stall already needs to prep hard for Psychic moves like Psyshock and Future Sight, the former being stronger than psychic noise and better at breaking due to the secondary effect. In practice Blissey just hits protect until the heal block expires (which is literally just 1-2 turns) vs gets fucked up by psyshock. Taunt also outclasses the heal block effect because it's guaranteed to last 2 turns and blocks other support moves

 

[Finchinator]

Hey gang, I am going to work on a “Viability List” — not a full rankings which ausma and our awesome team will handle when possible later on — later today. This will give everyone a consolidated threat list to use when teambuilding and discussion as things are so chaotic right now. I hope everyone is enjoying the metagame in its infancy!

 

[Heatranator]

Who do you all think would be the best users of Psychic Noise? It's a move that's really captured my interest and I would love to give it a shot on a team.

I found it good on hatterene. When terapagos was in the tier, you could nuzzle it then calm mind to max, while using draining kiss for recovery. Psychic noise specifically to stop rest attempts. Overall, pokemon that can wittle down walls a lot are good users of it. Glowking could probably use it quite well.

Hey gang, I am going to work on a “Viability List” — not a full rankings which ausma and our awesome team will handle when possible later on — later today. This will give everyone a consolidated threat list to use when teambuilding and discussion as things are so chaotic right now. I hope everyone is enjoying the metagame in its infancy!

Thank god, I've had a bit of a struggle creating teams as there are so many options to choose from. I usually wait for the tier shifts to start building proper teams, but this is great for me. Maybe my teams won't be absolute trash.

 

[Ehmcee]

I don't think Psychic Noise is particularly notable vs stall bc Stall already needs to prep hard for Psychic moves like Psyshock and Future Sight, the former being stronger than psychic noise and better at breaking due to the secondary effect. In practice Blissey just hits protect until the heal block expires (which is literally just 1-2 turns) vs gets fucked up by psyshock. Taunt also outclasses the heal block effect because it's guaranteed to last 2 turns and blocks other support moves

You seem to be thinking quite short term in the way Psychic Noise interacts vs stall mons, especially blissey.

Once Latios uses Psychic Noise on Blissey, nice, you switch out into something that threatens it, the chip you've dealt won't be able to be recovered by blissey, as it's forced to switch out. None of the other common switchins to Psychic Noise like taking a Specs boosted Draco Meteor or Aura Sphere either. Latios also can just Flip Turn now, which is quite nice.

As a core, been really liking Latios+Kingambit, Latios covers all of Gambit's weaknesses, while Kingambit usually hits everything fairly well on the physical side.

 

[mothra_moth]

Turtle is gone? Oh well. No sweat off my back. The Tera suspect will just double as the Terapagos suspect since we can connect this ban directly to Stellar Tera busting it.

Anyway WOO VOLCARONA I LOVE GOING 6-0 WITH WEBS SUPPORT WOOOO GOD BLESS VOLC!!!

I'm sticking with Tera Ground but Tera Water has been fun for spice.

 

[awyp]

Those 3 are probably better at doing that job, but but if you don't want to use any of those 3, then Flareon exists as an option, which might mandate a bit more support than the others

what happened to Glaceon?

 

[Casteliacone]

Those 3 are probably better at doing that job, but but if you don't want to use any of those 3, then Flareon exists as an option, which might mandate a bit more support than the others

sorry man, flareon really has no realistic place in OU (unless you're insane and wanna 'counterlead starmie with body slam tail whip hyper beam flareon' in RBY OU but that is also a shitpost set. It's jut not able to cut it. You can use it if you'd like, but it is not a viable reccomendation in any sense

 

[redninjapuffle]

what happened to Glaceon?

Cardiac arrest

Hey gang, I am going to work on a “Viability List” — not a full rankings which ausma and our awesome team will handle when possible later on — later today. This will give everyone a consolidated threat list to use when teambuilding and discussion as things are so chaotic right now. I hope everyone is enjoying the metagame in its infancy!

now this will be interesting, I'm wondering where the new mons will place on this "beta viability list" as I'll call it for now and where some buffed mons from previous gens like Latios might end up

 

[MasterPlayer]

Honestly Alluring Voice could maybe give Glaceon a reason to make use of it's low speed tier, but I don't think it will happen as long as Kyurem is allowed in the tier

 

[Heatranator]

May I present, dracovish 2.0
Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
252+ Atk Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 190-224 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The shittiest version of dracovish that is allowed. Truly a pokemon of all time.

 

[Cuddly]

Who do you all think would be the best users of Psychic Noise? It's a move that's really captured my interest and I would love to give it a shot on a team.

Honestly you could replace anything that uses Psychic normally with Psychic Noise and is little bit of personal preference. For -15 BP you get to block all forms of healing besides Regenerator.
Imo that’s a steal. Against bulkier Pokemon, you most common switch ins, you deny them passive recovery and direct recovery, which can range from ultimately doing more damage to X no longer walls you because you prevent them from recovering. Only exception being Regenerator, which either you deal lot of damage anyways or deal poor damage anyways.
Also the difference in power, especially in this meta, is hardly noticable. You deal 83.33% less damage, so for Psychic’s OHKO ranges to matter it needs to deal 119.9%-100%. Any more and Psychic Noise can still OHKO and any less and it’s a 2HKO where Psychic Noise is favored. But since this meta is mostly HO you’re likely going to KO everything anyways with so many things being so frail and hazards being up.
You can use Psychic if you want for more fire power, but I feel like Psychic Noise is better in 99% of scenarios.

May I present, dracovish 2.0
Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
252+ Atk Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 190-224 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The shittiest version of dracovish that is allowed. Truly a pokemon of all time.

Shouldn’t it be proto-Dracovish since it existed before the frankenfossils?