Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Rekka's Backend]

Anyways, this is a very rough idea. But it's the closest I have ever come to shutting down the lead hazard game with a single mon in gen 9.

This is a strat I actually toyed around awhile back while wanting to deal with Glimm's. It worked surprisingly well but I was never able to form a team that felt like it 'worked' with it. I might revisit the idea after a few bans now, cuz it was honestly kinda fire. Hitmon Top also was fun but a lot slower unfortunately.

For my set I used fucking Tera Blast ice though, to catch Lando and Tusks. Water might be better?

so honestly the speed usually feels perfectly fine without a boost unless you get +2 but if you can tidy up twice then the opponent is hopeless

The power in encoring a Gambit thats expecting you to click moves is a truly addicting feeling. The amount of games I've won via Mous is surprising, I had to drop it due to Volc but now with that bastard out I should revisit it. Best moment of my life was having a maxed out mous using Population bomb on a Zama that thought it could tank a fully maxed out Popbomb, and watching it die a slow but steady death. People underestimate it so bad lol.

 

[SDK03]

Most ppl severely misplay their Miceholds too, you DO NOT NEED TO GET A PLUS ONE BOOST

as long as there's no rocky helmet users on the other side there is absolutely no non-ghost switch-ins into population bomb

The Iron Head Corviknight and a random ass Tankchomp getting ready to ruin your attempted Maushold sweep:

 

[June Heat]

I have been trying to figure out the perfect anti-lead for awhile. The problem is there aren't many ways to account for both Focus Sash and Choice Scarf leads of many common hazard leads like Hamurott and Glimm. Maushold with Choice Band would be a disgusting anti-lead if it weren't for Glimm's resist and the threat of opposing scarf sets. Rillaboom on lead is also fairly common.

I came up with a Roaring Moon anti-lead set, because of course I did. But I don't necesarrily think BE speed + Taunt is as good as the Taunt set is with BE attack. So I came up with another anti-lead set that was Tera Fairy. But neither really deny hazards from every source, such as Hamurott. They just abuse the situation to set up. Not what I was looking for, though I go through some very evil ideas.

Next I tried Fake Out. Fake Out was a good idea to try and get rid of any sashes. It also takes away the necessity for multi-hit moves Now I just needed a way to beat scarfers. Rillaboom and Weavile each looked promising. But neither Grassy Glide or Ice Shard got enough KOs against the leads required for it to fit. And non-priority moves just couldn't ensure beating the boosted speed tiers.

So I came up with something really depraved. Normal Gem Hitmonlee. Here me out...

Hitmonlee @ Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Fake Out both gets rid of Focus Sash and procs Unburden. From there, you outspeed the most important lead scarfers. High Jump Kick 1HKOs Hamurott, lead Iron Treads, and a lot of other things. Tera Fighting will 1 shot Glimmora with High Jump Kick. Knock Off hits lead D-Speed and Ghost switch ins. I have Poison Jab for lead Ribombee. Glimm is that hardest thing to deal with here. I wanted to run Stomping Tantrum to hit Glimmora without Tera Fighting, but I would have had to drop something like Poison Jab for Ribombee. So I basically just accepted having to burn Tera and needing a grounded Poison type as a teammate.

There are a few things you can't necesarrily outrun with Unburden without Jolly. I haven't thoroughly run enough calcs to know if the tradeoff is worth the speed tier upgrade. I also haven't tested Close Combat, which might be a more viable alternative.

Anyways, this is a very rough idea. But it's the closest I have ever come to shutting down the lead hazard game with a single mon in gen 9.

A very bold attempt to trying to accomplish the impossible. God Bless brave soldier.

 

[littensalt]

God, I miss Showdown. Reading everyone’s opinions on the metagame had really gotten my creative juices flowing. I wanna try stuff out man!

for the short games(mainly due to server updates/reconnects) i’ve been using okidogi a bit and it really is fun, i know everyone says this gen has nothing but badly designed mons that do nothing but setup and explode but its got a lot of diamonds that if you can team build around, feels extremely fun and i hope as the gen gets its shit together more & we see more of the okidogis or sinistchas or crowns of the tier become more viable

 

[PastaMechKaku]

So I came up with something really depraved. Normal Gem Hitmonlee. Here me out...

Hitmonlee @ Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

My genuine reaction to this information:

If someone loads this thing against me, I might say something that would get me banned for at least 6 months

This also explains why I see that thing on some SV tier lists/ list makers (even if it is at rock bottom in the lists) as if you squint hard enough, it could be *a* Unburden sweeper with a way to make its ability live on its own if you're allergic to Hawlucha + Rillaboom .

 

[sire clod]

The Iron Head Corviknight and a random ass Tankchomp getting ready to ruin your attempted Maushold sweep:

me clicking BITE on the garchomp switch predicting that shit: and getting the flinch(es) necessary and living on 1 HP to pop bomb the rest of the team:

 

[June Heat]

In search of new and exciting things I have created a potential check to the cute menace plaguing OU right now that is Ogerpon-W.

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP/ 164 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Steam Eruption/Scald
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt/Sludge Wave/Earth Power

Did you know this thing has 120 Defense for no reason? Yeah, so all the talk about Ogerpon being broke got me brainstorming of potential C-Tier Pokemon that I could manifest into existence to deal with The Pon. Yes, I might have just typed in Water Absorb in the search bar to see what popped up, but there it was with its fat ass and weird hoses. 120 Defense! Jackpot! Oh wait...

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Volcanion: 151-178 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yikes. Ok, with Tera Poison Volcanion is like a full proof check to Ogerpon-W, and hey not all Ogerpon-W use Power Whip anyways! Another benefit to Tera Poison is now you resist BP from Zamazenta, and can retaliate with Will-O-Wisp. Dual Stab + Will-O-Wisp is pretty much mandatory if going this route, and the last slot is up to preference. I personally been enjoying annoying Alomomola users by Taunting them, and slurping up their Flip Turns and Scalds. In my practice runs tonight Volcanion does as advertise. No Ogerpon has been the cause of my loses tonight just bad gameplay. Have fun :)

 

[sims796]

I'm amazed that Alo is doing so well with all the Water Absorbers around.

 

[pika pal]

In search of new and exciting things I have created a potential check to the cute menace plaguing OU right now that is Ogerpon-W.

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP/ 164 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Steam Eruption/Scald
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt/Sludge Wave/Earth Power

Did you know this thing has 120 Defense for no reason? Yeah, so all the talk about Ogerpon being broke got me brainstorming of potential C-Tier Pokemon that I could manifest into existence to deal with The Pon. Yes, I might have just typed in Water Absorb in the search bar to see what popped up, but there it was with its fat ass and weird hoses. 120 Defense! Jackpot! Oh wait...

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Volcanion: 151-178 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yikes. Ok, with Tera Poison Volcanion is like a full proof check to Ogerpon-W, and hey not all Ogerpon-W use Power Whip anyways! Another benefit to Tera Poison is now you resist BP from Zamazenta, and can retaliate with Will-O-Wisp. Dual Stab + Will-O-Wisp is pretty much mandatory if going this route, and the last slot is up to preference. I personally been enjoying annoying Alomomola users by Taunting them, and slurping up their Flip Turns and Scalds. In my practice runs tonight Volcanion does as advertise. No Ogerpon has been the cause of my loses tonight just bad gameplay. Have fun :)

Volcanion always manages to be that mon that barely scrapes out UU/RU usage for a year and a half of a tier's life, then people remember Scald with 1.5x Power and Water/Burn Immunity/Spreader in one slot can be really annoying to fight. I've been waiting to see what Meta Shift would lead to people playing with this thing again, especially with the Gen shift doing it a couple favors (less competition for the Scald spreading niche, Tera + Immunity goes well together, and a Defensive profile that eats a lot of staples and niche stuff like Rain/Sun).

 

[Cheryl.]

Volcanion always manages to be that mon that barely scrapes out UU/RU usage for a year and a half of a tier's life, then people remember Scald with 1.5x Power and Water/Burn Immunity/Spreader in one slot can be really annoying to fight. I've been waiting to see what Meta Shift would lead to people playing with this thing again, especially with the Gen shift doing it a couple favors (less competition for the Scald spreading niche, Tera + Immunity goes well together, and a Defensive profile that eats a lot of staples and niche stuff like Rain/Sun).

Volcanion's always felt like a mon that ladder ignores because it doesn't seem that good on the surface, but then it always puts in Lebron numbers in tournament play. Even earlier this gen it saw some solid usage in tours with sets like the Fire Spin trapper set Finch innovated, not too sure about nowadays though.

 

[Fusion Flare]

In search of new and exciting things I have created a potential check to the cute menace plaguing OU right now that is Ogerpon-W.

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP/ 164 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Steam Eruption/Scald
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt/Sludge Wave/Earth Power

Did you know this thing has 120 Defense for no reason? Yeah, so all the talk about Ogerpon being broke got me brainstorming of potential C-Tier Pokemon that I could manifest into existence to deal with The Pon. Yes, I might have just typed in Water Absorb in the search bar to see what popped up, but there it was with its fat ass and weird hoses. 120 Defense! Jackpot! Oh wait...

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Volcanion: 151-178 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yikes. Ok, with Tera Poison Volcanion is like a full proof check to Ogerpon-W, and hey not all Ogerpon-W use Power Whip anyways! Another benefit to Tera Poison is now you resist BP from Zamazenta, and can retaliate with Will-O-Wisp. Dual Stab + Will-O-Wisp is pretty much mandatory if going this route, and the last slot is up to preference. I personally been enjoying annoying Alomomola users by Taunting them, and slurping up their Flip Turns and Scalds. In my practice runs tonight Volcanion does as advertise. No Ogerpon has been the cause of my loses tonight just bad gameplay. Have fun :)

Volcanion's that one Pokemon that people underlook often, and then somebody finds out a defensive niche it has that completely upends the metagame. Just as it checked Tapu FIni with ease last generation, note that it also checks Primarina, who has been terrorizing OU for a while.

 

[Rootb]

I'm amazed that Alo is doing so well with all the Water Absorbers around.

One innovation you're starting to see is Body Slam, which actually hits slightly harder than Scald, even after STAB. While you do have to make contact, you still have a 30% chance to status -- and with how important speed is at the moment, Paralyze isn't that much worse than Burn at crippling physical attackers this generation.

 

[June Heat]

Man, watching the WCoP Qualifiers has really reinforced by belief that Ogerpon-W is just not all that. So far of the games I’ve watched that feature the gal she has done jack all. Either eating status and becoming useless, or just not able to get into a favorable position. It’s not like people are running shit like Amoongus either. Just natural team building seems to be more than enough to handle Ogerpon. Who knows maybe as the field narrows, and the games go on we’ll see her true potential, but so far it reminds me a lot of Walking Wake gut reactions.

Kyurem be looking menacing though.

 

[GummyRowlets]

Man, watching the WCoP Qualifiers has really reinforced by belief that Ogerpon-W is just not all that. So far of the games I’ve watched that feature the gal she has done jack all. Either eating status and becoming useless, or just not able to get into a favorable position. It’s not like people are running shit like Amoongus either. Just natural team building seems to be more than enough to handle Ogerpon. Who knows maybe as the field narrows, and the games go on we’ll see her true potential, but so far it reminds me a lot of Walking Wake gut reactions.

Kyurem be looking menacing though.

Roaring moon looking even more menacing in the corner knowing it's career is soon over

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Who knows maybe as the field narrows, and the games go on we’ll see her true potential, but so far it reminds me a lot of Walking Wake gut reactions.

i have to question the term "gut reactions". waterpon has been out since last september, it's not like she just dropped a couple days ago. people have had plenty of time to formulate opinions about her in many different iterations of the meta, both in dlc1 and dlc2, and she's remained at the very least problematic in most of them, including (in my opinion) the current one. the "ban waterpon" movement isn't new, it's one of the oldest post-dlc ban campaigns. it originated before firepon was even banned. it only quieted down a bit after dlc2 because of all the new toys (and new dragons), but waterpon has adapted and is now back to doing the same nonsense she was doing before

 

[June Heat]

i have to question the term "gut reactions". waterpon has been out since last september, it's not like she just dropped a couple days ago. people have had plenty of time to formulate opinions about her in many different iterations of the meta, both in dlc1 and dlc2, and she's remained at the very least problematic in most of them, including (in my opinion) the current one. the "ban waterpon" movement isn't new, it's one of the oldest post-dlc ban campaigns. it originated before firepon was even banned. it only quieted down a bit after dlc2 because of all the new toys (and new dragons), but waterpon has adapted and is now back to doing the same nonsense she was doing before

You're right, "gut reaction" is a bit hyperbolic on my end, and to be fair to Ogerpon-W I did manage to find a replay once I got on my home computer where she did look mighty impressive. I still don't really see it though. Once again, maybe as the weeks go on I'll change my toon, but so far I definetly don't think Ogerpon-W should be the next suspect.

Darkrai being looking kinda shnasty though

 

[Soiramio3000]

I heard that some guy got number 2 on the ladder with a probopass.

sooooo does that mean that it is going to get in the bottom of viability list now?

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I heard that some guy got number 2 on the ladder with a probopass.

sooooo does that mean that it is going to get in the bottom of viability list now?

relevance to this thread aside, i think this might actually kind of be a good point. if someone gets top 5 or higher on ladder with a mon, isn't that proof that it can function in some capacity at the highest level of play? sure, probopass is a shitmon, but so is half of d tier

 

[Heatranator]

relevance to this thread aside, i think this might actually kind of be a good point. if someone gets top 5 or higher on ladder with a mon, isn't that proof that it can function in some capacity at the highest level of play? sure, probopass is a shitmon, but so is half of d tier

It kinda shows that with a good enough team and proper accommodation, basically anything can work. I wouldn't say it should be ranked in the VR, as that would mean like 200 different mons would also be going on the VR, but it shows a niche can be found for anything.
Although there is the Niche Heat Brigade Forum, I think a compilation of mons that are bad but do have an incredibly small niche should be done. Something like an unofficial E rank, though of course that might be pushing for something which is not really worth it.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

It kinda shows that with a good enough team and proper accommodation, basically anything can work. I wouldn't say it should be ranked in the VR, as that would mean like 200 different mons would also be going on the VR, but it shows a niche can be found for anything.
Although there is the Niche Heat Brigade Forum, I think a compilation of mons that are bad but do have an incredibly small niche should be done. Something like an unofficial E rank, though of course that might be pushing for something which is not really worth it.

there's a difference between "it can work" and "here's several high-level replays of it doing work". and the latter is one of the requirements for nominating something to the vr in the first place, isn't it?

 

[Heatranator]

there's a difference between "it can work" and "here's several high-level replays of it doing work". and the latter is one of the requirements for nominating something to the vr in the first place, isn't it?

Technically, yes, but if the niche of it is so small that it can only work on 1-2 specific teams, then it's not really worth it. For example, golduck has a niche as an anti weather mon with cloud nine (altaria too) but it not only is it doing well against one playstyle, you are having to make big concessions in order to do that. Probopass' niche is that it can trap and ko most gambit variants, which is cool, but apart from some other things it can sometimes do (such as trapping Heatran if light screen is up) it mostly is dead. A mon in D tier is bad, but is good against a good portion of the meta while not being consistent (and a few mons in D rank like smeargle I think should not be ranked at all). These mons are not really worth your time, but they are something to consider once in a blue moon. If something is only really helping against one mon/playstyle and being dead in the water otherwise, it's not worthy of being ranked in my eyes.

 

[tommytt22]

there's a difference between "it can work" and "here's several high-level replays of it doing work". and the latter is one of the requirements for nominating something to the vr in the first place, isn't it?

some poor soul tried to trap my scizor thinking it was choice banded and i OHKO'd with close combat. probopass is a cool tech but the only steel type it can trap is gambit, which can sometimes fail if gambit flinches enough with iron head or if gambit teras, in which case it can just switch out.

 

[Bold School]

some poor soul tried to trap my scizor thinking it was choice banded and i OHKO'd with close combat. probopass is a cool tech but the only steel type it can trap is gambit, which can sometimes fail if gambit flinches enough with iron head or if gambit teras, in which case it can just switch out.

Only Gambit and nothing else? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why someone wouldn't just run Magnezone with Body Press at this point. At least Mag can also take out the metal birds, which many teammates would appreciate.

 

[June Heat]

There is something to say about the surprise factor. I wonder how many of their opponents actually knew what Probopass is even capable of? How many of them just threw their Gambits away due to not knowing what's going on? It's really easy to catch someone off guard with a hyper specific niche set using a Pokemon that has been long forgotten by most of the player base. It's also quite easy to play around once you've seen it in action, and the mon in question quickly becomes close to dead weight. This of course is to not take away from the original creator's efforts. The Team featuring Probopass is well made, and was undoubtfully piloted well when they were climbing. Just these types of gimmicks tend to be flashes in the pan that work once when used by a good player, and everyone who tries to replicate their success usually end up failing.

 

[Heatranator]

Only Gambit and nothing else? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why someone wouldn't just run Magnezone with Body Press at this point. At least Mag can also take out the metal birds, which many teammates would appreciate.

I think the main thing is that probopass can take on specifically gambit a lot better, since it can actually switch into gambit on kowtow where magnezone cannot. Also, magnezone never can ohko kingambit with bp (unless its bold, but that's a roll), which means it can trap kingambit unless it is chipped (but gambit most likely will be chipped).
I would say magnezone is better at the whole trapping steel types business, since the metal birds are also something it can trap, but there is a reason to the madness.