Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Bold School]

Uhh, I'm guessing your playing NatDex cause if your opponent is using Mega Sableye in SV, I think you should be worrying more about that then a stallbreaker.
A mon that I have found good against stall is magic guard reuniclus with calm mind, recover, psyshock and energy ball. It eats up most hits and doesn't worry about passive damage. It does horribly against arch teams, but if your not worried about that, then it could be good, though it does seem like you've got it covered.
Potentially a focus sash polteageist could be good, as at +4, which you can get easily from shell smash and weak armour, can outspeed barra in rain. You do need hazard removal, on the psychic terrain team I've used it was tusk because that can help against dark types so you can spam expanding force easier.

No, those games were custom. Most of the mons from that custom team were mons that could at least be found in gen 9 OU like Blissey, Heatran, and Alomomola. But I haven't seen a Wo Chen or a Toxepex in OU for awhile. Regardless, the rest of the games were all gen 9 OU. I only mentioned these ones due to the lack of real stall games I have been seeing with this team.

It's less about being good against stall specifically. It's about if mixed attacking D-Speed +a Wallbreaker beats stall. I still can't really tell. All I know is that it doesn't auto win as easily as D-Speed + Kyurem.

My Psychic Terrain team is honestly just full of gimmicky stuff I wanted to test out. Tusk wouldn't make the best hazard control mon for it because it already loses to hard to Rain Barry and Acrobatics Moon. The team also wasn't losing much to hazard stack despite only having Hat for hazard control.

They did say private match so could be challenge only custom game

You're right. Those two games specifically were custom. The rest has been gen 9 OU. Someone volunteered to help me test so I asked them to play stall. But I didn't give them any criteria for it and that's what happened.

I just assumed gen 7 because that's the only real metagame where there's both a good psychic terrain setter and mega evolutions

I wish it had Lele. The team uses Indeedee, which is really not that good.

 

[Mikegengsta]

The problem with Calcs is that theoretical damage only works if you can reliably convert it. The only way to do that is with actual matches. I don't believe you necesarrily need high ranking matches to determine this. But I think you at least need to experience it in game enough to get a feel for handling the switches.

I have been testing my theory that a mixed attacking D-Speed + Wallbreaker could render most defensive cores moot. With Kyurem, this part worked extremely well. The team itself wasn't good because I had no speed control, but I made it more to learn the mon and test certain concepts. So I was satisfied and moved on.

With my current team, I'm using Hoopa-U and Psychic Terrain. The results are not as good. I did have a few matches against stall earlier. Just not much I can conclude from it. One was very unconventional that I lost to. The others were private matches with someone who brought a Mega Sableye stall team. I won those easily with the Psychic Terrain team, but it's not exactly conclusive.

Just now, I did finally get a stall and I lost because of an unexpected Dondozo Tera Dark. Kinda played a little too well into my psychic spam. I think I could play around that if I knew to expect it, but no excuses. I lost. So I have like a sample of 4 games and 2 of them aren't even fully gen 9 teams.

The biggest problem with the Psychic Terrain team I made is I didn't put priority. So it just loses to rain Barraskewda and setup sweepers that get going. It can beat Grassy Terrain teams and Hazard stack. But it can't beat rain, struggles with sun that has Gouging Fire, and hates speed boosting Roaring Moon. Attack Boosting Roaring Moon is a bit less of a threat, but still is a problem if it gets a DD up with positioning.

Anyways, Hoopa-U is the second wallbreaker I'm testing. And then after that, I would like to move onto a third and maybe a fourth.

I’m having the opposite issues with psyspam right now. Rain isn’t hard to beat but grassy terrain makes that team hard to win with Rillaboom coming in to grassy glide prio on a +4 speed polteageist that lost its sash. Haha

 

[Mikegengsta]

Uhh, I'm guessing your playing NatDex cause if your opponent is using Mega Sableye in SV, I think you should be worrying more about that then a stallbreaker.
A mon that I have found good against stall is magic guard reuniclus with calm mind, recover, psyshock and energy ball. It eats up most hits and doesn't worry about passive damage. It does horribly against arch teams, but if your not worried about that, then it could be good, though it does seem like you've got it covered.
Potentially a focus sash polteageist could be good, as at +4, which you can get easily from shell smash and weak armour, can outspeed barra in rain. You do need hazard removal, on the psychic terrain team I've used it was tusk because that can help against dark types so you can spam expanding force easier.

Focus sash polteageist timid +4 outspeeds barraskewda in rain. Rain doesn’t seem too difficult with the psyspam matchup as you lock out raging bolt thunderclap and hoopa-u specs just blows it back to kingdom come lol

 

[Bold School]

I’m having the opposite issues with psyspam right now. Rain isn’t hard to beat but grassy terrain makes that team hard to win with Rillaboom coming in to grassy glide prio on a +4 speed polteageist that lost its sash. Haha

That's interesting. I found Rillaboom is one of the better matchups for Indeedee, provided I keep it safe and switch it in at the appropriate time to cancel the glides. But I also don't use Polteageist. I'll maybe have to consider it if it's that good on rain. But I also wonder if it would make the dark type matchup worse.

 

[Heatranator]

That's interesting. I found Rillaboom is one of the better matchups for Indeedee, provided I keep it safe and switch it in at the appropriate time to cancel the glides. But I also don't use Polteageist. I'll maybe have to consider it if it's that good on rain. But I also wonder if it would make the dark type matchup worse.

It does make the matchup a lot worse into dark types, but that I think is a given on psychic terrain teams. Valiant is quite good on psy terrain teams, as it does amazingly against dark types while still being able to spam expanding force.
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Expanding Force
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Destiny Bond
Something like this could work, as you outspeed booster attack moon naturally, though of course you have to worry about tera flying/+1. Maybe even a choice scarf Deo-S, as funny as that sounds, could work as it is one of the only mons that can outspeed Barra in rain. If you want to be creative, use your own barra with psychic fangs, but uses jolly instead of adamant to outrun most barra sets.
Still though, it seems like you have a grasp of things, so I think your good otherwise, but psychic terrain teams are hard to pull off, so be prepared to suffer.

 

[Bold School]

It does make the matchup a lot worse into dark types, but that I think is a given on psychic terrain teams. Valiant is quite good on psy terrain teams, as it does amazingly against dark types while still being able to spam expanding force.
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Expanding Force
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Destiny Bond
Something like this could work, as you outspeed booster attack moon naturally, though of course you have to worry about tera flying/+1. Maybe even a choice scarf Deo-S, as funny as that sounds, could work as it is one of the only mons that can outspeed Barra in rain. If you want to be creative, use your own barra with psychic fangs, but uses jolly instead of adamant to outrun most barra sets.
Still though, it seems like you have a grasp of things, so I think your good otherwise, but psychic terrain teams are hard to pull off, so be prepared to suffer.

Yeah, I don't want to change the D-Speed set much because that defeats the purpose.

I do have a Booster Energy Valiant on the team. Different set, but still. The problem becomes when even that is too slow. I'm thinking of experimenting switching it out for now to test out counter picks for the difficult matchups. I'll likely wind up putting it back on the team because it's good.

 

[Heatranator]

Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
- Sunny Day
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Stomping Tantrum
Enamorus @ Custap Berry
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Play Rough
- Earth Power
- Endure
Okay, so these two sets are kinda weird, but they have actually put in work for me.
Sunny day amoonguss can actually do great against rain, unless you swap into pelipper itself, but anything else it can take on, and start sweeping quite easily. It's actually kinda crazy how easy it is to sweep, I have had many times where I have taken out 3 mons before finally getting ko'd. And regenerator can make sure you have defensive utility and can come in for a sweep again and again.
Custap berry endure enamorus is one of the best revenge killers in the game. Early game it can get up a few superpower boosts to try to sweep, but if it fails it can switch out. Endure custap means that some faster mons that could otherwise stop a sweep like barra can be overcome and ko'd, meaning you can finish a sweep. It has saved my butt and lot of times and is a really cool set.
Just thought I would share these two sets that I have had success with together.

 

[Mikegengsta]

That's interesting. I found Rillaboom is one of the better matchups for Indeedee, provided I keep it safe and switch it in at the appropriate time to cancel the glides. But I also don't use Polteageist. I'll maybe have to consider it if it's that good on rain. But I also wonder if it would make the dark type matchup worse.

You have Tera fighting for polteageist. Just gotta outplay them sometimes. If there is a Mon that handles polteageist at +2 and its speed is cranked up. Gotta go with your gut. Sometimes they put out Kingambit only to Tera flying and went for stored power lmao

 

[Soiramio3000]

is volcarona going to be suspect tested too?

 

[YubelVT]

Focus sash polteageist timid +4 outspeeds barraskewda in rain. Rain doesn’t seem too difficult with the psyspam matchup as you lock out raging bolt thunderclap and hoopa-u specs just blows it back to kingdom come lol

the aqua jet the barraskewda is always going to pack:

 

[Mikegengsta]

the aqua jet the barraskewda is always going to pack:

Not under psychic terrain it won’t haha

 

[YubelVT]

Not under psychic terrain it won’t haha

the stealth rocks that will invalidate your focus sash:

 

[NotDaProGamer]

the stealth rocks that will invalidate your focus sash:

the reason my team with 3 hazard removers + Hatterene just for lil' old to vibe was absolutely wrecked in DLC1:

 

[viivian]

the aqua jet the barraskewda is always going to pack:

when was the last time you saw polteageist outside of psyspam

 

[YubelVT]

when was the last time you saw polteageist outside of psyspam

I play randbats so relatively often actually

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I wouldn't necessarily say tera is seen as "fine" moreso as "not really worth a third suspect test". Like tera is a relatively common complaint among forum users but most of the people who don't post on the forum (probably) are either indifferent or enjoy tera as a mechanic. You are right tho

considering the survey results, i would say that tera is seen as fine. we have conclusive proof, both from the initial suspect and the recent survey, that the pro-ban side is and always has been a very loud minority. the people who want action on tera but don't want a full ban see the mechanic as more fine than not-fine, otherwise they'd vote to ban. so let's break this down percentage-wise. out of 154 qualified voters:

• 39 (25.4%) think the mechanic is banworthy (i.e. not fine)
• 33 (21.4%) think the mechanic is not banworthy but action-worthy (i.e. mostly fine)
• 82 (53.2%) think the mechanic is not action-worthy (i.e. perfectly fine)

let's say, for the sake of argument, that the middle group thinks tera is 50% fine and 50% not-fine (i'm being generous to the anti-tera group here). this would mean that tera is seen as about 36% not-fine and 64% fine, so the general consensus would be that tera is fine

a similar split is seen among general voters, with slightly more pro-action and pro-ban leanings, but the mechanic is still largely seen as fine among both groups

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Throwing my hat in the ring say I think tera is fine, but the powercreep and pokemon that abuse it are so far and above that it becomes problematic. I would rather destroy the man who made Kinggambit vs remove tera.

I just like making my Meowscarada become Ghost with a dark stab o~kay?

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Throwing my hat in the ring say I think tera is fine, but the powercreep and pokemon that abuse it are so far and above that it becomes problematic. I would rather destroy the man who made Kinggambit vs remove tera.

I just like making my Meowscarada become Ghost with a dark stab o~kay?

Understandable, but I think the mind games it brings is a negative aspect for singles overall

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Understandable, but I think the mind games it brings is a negative aspect for singles overall

Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast. It's always going to feel bad when you are down to a 1 vs 1 but end up with it flipping due to a last second tera; But I'm going to largely say that in my experience playing the only times I've said "I hate this mechanic" has been when an actual demon uses it to circumvent a careful tiptoeing I've done to try and neuter the beast. Which at that point, is more the demons fault than the mechanic.

Ultimately if all types were closer to equal or at least not as lopsided I'd be more on investigating it, but considering its only a handful of pokemon I feel like break the mechanic I lean towards my stance.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

considering the survey results, i would say that tera is seen as fine. we have conclusive proof, both from the initial suspect and the recent survey, that the pro-ban side is and always has been a very loud minority. the people who want action on tera but don't want a full ban see the mechanic as more fine than not-fine, otherwise they'd vote to ban. so let's break this down percentage-wise. out of 154 qualified voters:

• 39 (25.4%) think the mechanic is banworthy (i.e. not fine)
• 33 (21.4%) think the mechanic is not banworthy but action-worthy (i.e. mostly fine)
• 82 (53.2%) think the mechanic is not action-worthy (i.e. perfectly fine)

let's say, for the sake of argument, that the middle group thinks tera is 50% fine and 50% not-fine (i'm being generous to the anti-tera group here). this would mean that tera is seen as about 36% not-fine and 64% fine, so the general consensus would be that tera is fine

a similar split is seen among general voters, with slightly more pro-action and pro-ban leanings, but the mechanic is still largely seen as fine among both groups

DaddyBuzzwole, I think you fail to appreciate what Setsusetsuna and I both stated, that people still playing SV OU after a year tend to be people who are able to tolerate Terastalization and those not aren't the type of people actively filling out surveys. The slight drop off in action support can be explained by people changing their minds, sure, but it can also be explained by people who don't like Tera not playing anymore. People who don't play the tier shouldn't fill out the survey after all. As Setsu said in the last suspect people who have no other SV presence turned up to vote.

i also think it's worth pointing out Tera is treated differently on the survey in the way the questions surrounding it are asked, in a way that in my opinion is less effective to glean the playerbase's opinion. Every other topic on the surveys, save for Quick Claw, has been put to a 1-5 scale, with this being a data point in a decision to suspect, wherein the players then after a test vote yes/no. However, Tera has instead for some reason been put to "if you were voting in the suspect test right now what would you vote" straw polls instead of even letting the playerbase express their opinion the way we do for every other survey point. The binary nature of the poll also discourages elaboration in the metagame discussion thread as typically people want to elaborate on 1-5 ratings. The fact that the survey question about Tera boils down to a simple yes no doesn't give people who are on the fence a space to express that opinion or be recognized as on the fence - yes on action no on "needs to be banned" is the closest analogue we had, which was on the last survey. I voted yes to both, mainly because the latter was a bullshit question, amounting to "is Tera a 5" or "are you certain right now that Tera should be banned." I would probably rate Tera a 4 on a survey but there has yet to have been a way for me to express that, despite Tera's so-called "survey inclusion." There also are a large body of players that don't immediately see a full ban as necessary, but want something to change have no idea in hell what the alternative would be, who also aren't really represented.

I understand that the data as it's been recorded and presented seems to favor no action, but I think given the methodology employed thus far and the bias surveys inherently show towards people who actively enjoy the tier suggests there's more to public opinion on Tera than immediately meets the eye

 

[lucky333]

Hello, I am not really a great Showdpwn player but I would like to voice my opinion about sth. I am sorry about the long post

I have seen some people say Gouging Fire needs his attack protoboost to reach his full potential but I very much disagree. Sun teams have always been my favorite playstyle ever since it debuted with Ninetales since fire types are favorite types ever. So I extensively tried to built many different sun teams, stole some sun teams I have seen on the ladder or rmt and experimented with them. And yeah Banded GF with speed boost is easily the best set so far. This is also a mon that is always worth it to tera fire to reach absurd number even with speed boosting ones

Set-up GF is kind of a waste in sun. It is way to slow momentum wise + you will need multiple boosts to outpace some offensive mons like other Valiant or Deo which just doesn't make it worth it( your sun turns are limited so you have to get a lot of value with every turn. I will say though, it is slightly better against protect stalling mons like water Gliscor but other then that CB is much better here since weather in general is about maximizing your turns. Outside sun , bulky setup is better due to having multiple opportunities to come(thanks to morning sun) and having a suprisingly good defensive typing that checks dangerous mons like Volc,Ghold or Gambit(outside tera). .

Speed boosting Scarf is funny. It does well against HO teams(can even suprise kill a speed Moon) but does worse the bulkier the team gets.

CB Attack boost hits like a nuke but it doesn't do as well against teams with focus on offense. They don't care if you can nuke a mon after all, they care more about mons outspeeding them and GF speed is kinda eh. And that is where CB speed boosting Gouging Fire comes in. With a choice band and the sun up, he basically starts with a +2 attack and +1 speed just by entering. Isn't that much better then having a +2,3 attack boost?

By adding speed, popular offensive checks to GF become fodder instead. Dragapult? Will become an actual ghost and pass on to the next world. Roaring Moon? What a beautiful grave that shines under the moon. Zamazenta? Gets 2HKO instead of 1HKO'd but you would have to take the hit anyway or deal with ID shit. There are other like Enarm, boosterless Treads or other setup mons at +1 that become an issue once GF is chipped if he were attack booster but are not an issue for speed boosters.

I will say, though, the attack boosting CB Tera Fire adamant GF does insane shit like OHKOing Ting-Lu and 2HKOing Dozo but being outsped by so many offensive threats is just not worth it. 3HKOing Dozo and 2HKO Lu is still good. Being forced to rest and getting chipped is basically a death sentence for Dozo especially if you have teammates that can pressure him. Here is one example: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2057041095-j58cb7tdkwwb4lj0r2gf1n2ihnpx3t7pw

This example here has many things that GF hates(a tera grass flash fire mon, Tyranitar, Iron valiant and Garchomp that gives free chip to you). Still managed to clean up afterall(although I dont like how I played against Ceruledge) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2057051586-rz2wvrwhmz0qnpkgmaehvvg6289lg65pw

And here is an example of GF vs an average OU team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2055562914-bb0mte8s9wtm2yvwqw1na71ygs7ykuupw

Here is another irrelevant example for people who hate rain https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2056432270-l8aryswp5rpubg8m4j9np85dzumyuqmpw

Tl:dr: Speed Gouging Fire is one of the most oppressive mons in the tier right now. Not sure how much the tier can handle after rain falls off but I am having so much fun with this mon. You just get sun up, bring him in and mindlessly click a button. In fact NOT playing stupid is actually a hindrance since the opponent can counter offense you. Which is why I love this mon. Don't think I have felt this way since Chi-Yu. I still miss my CB Victini though.

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

Something that I've picked up on whilst playing the factory's Ai is how it chooses when to set up and when to go for damage. Simply put, something like Roaring Moon going for a Dragon Dance on a guaranteed switch yet was already faster is greedy. That is not competitive but we can go for the argument on how any of you might think it is.
Another thing, to use Roaring Moon again, with OHKO Clause, how, after a Dragon Dance does this thing not fall in the banworthy tier? Am I supposed to have a Scarfer that has a good MU come out of nowhere and deal with it? How do these dirty OHKO hitting busts avoid getting the hammer under this deep entrenched loophole? My friend wanted me to say that.
To shift Pokemon, How is Kingambit not enough reason to suspect Supreme Overlord? Like what?
And back to Sun. Banning Damp Rock is missing the point and is extrmely short sighted long term.
Why would you not ban Sun first and then ban Archa?

I had a stroke trying to read this

The OHKO Clause is not 'you can't OHKO any Pokemon', it's 'you can't use OHKO moves because they're uncompetitive'. +1 Proto Acrobatics on Tera Flying Roaring Moon does not OHKO Skarmory. Roaring Moon is proving problematic for the tier and is likely to be suspected at a future date but the attempt to tie together Roaring Moon and the OHKO Clause is utterly insane.
You can't isolate Supreme Overlord from Kingambit because Kingambit is the only Pokemon with it and banning Supreme Overlord would open up things like 'why not we ban Speed Boost on Espathra specifically' or 'what if we brought down Koraidon but it had to use Breaking Swipe'.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Hello, I am not really a great Showdpwn player but I would like to voice my opinion about sth. I am sorry about the long post

I have seen some people say Gouging Fire needs his attack protoboost to reach his full potential but I very much disagree. Sun teams have always been my favorite playstyle ever since it debuted with Ninetales since fire types are favorite types ever. So I extensively tried to built many different sun teams, stole some sun teams I have seen on the ladder or rmt and experimented with them. And yeah Banded GF with speed boost is easily the best set so far. This is also a mon that is always worth it to tera fire to reach absurd number even with speed boosting ones

Set-up GF is kind of a waste in sun. It is way to slow momentum wise + you will need multiple boosts to outpace some offensive mons like other Valiant or Deo which just doesn't make it worth it( your sun turns are limited so you have to get a lot of value with every turn. I will say though, it is slightly better against protect stalling mons like water Gliscor but other then that CB is much better here since weather in general is about maximizing your turns. Outside sun , bulky setup is better due to having multiple opportunities to come(thanks to morning sun) and having a suprisingly good defensive typing that checks dangerous mons like Volc,Ghold or Gambit(outside tera). .

Speed boosting Scarf is funny. It does well against HO teams(can even suprise kill a speed Moon) but does worse the bulkier the team gets.

CB Attack boost hits like a nuke but it doesn't do as well against teams with focus on offense. They don't care if you can nuke a mon after all, they care more about mons outspeeding them and GF speed is kinda eh. And that is where CB speed boosting Gouging Fire comes in. With a choice band and the sun up, he basically starts with a +2 attack and +1 speed just by entering. Isn't that much better then having a +2,3 attack boost?

By adding speed, popular offensive checks to GF become fodder instead. Dragapult? Will become an actual ghost and pass on to the next world. Roaring Moon? What a beautiful grave that shines under the moon. Zamazenta? Gets 2HKO instead of 1HKO'd but you would have to take the hit anyway or deal with ID shit. There are other like Enarm, boosterless Treads or other setup mons at +1 that become an issue once GF is chipped if he were attack booster but are not an issue for speed boosters.

I will say, though, the attack boosting CB Tera Fire adamant GF does insane shit like OHKOing Ting-Lu and 2HKOing Dozo but being outsped by so many offensive threats is just not worth it. 3HKOing Dozo and 2HKO Lu is still good. Being forced to rest and getting chipped is basically a death sentence for Dozo especially if you have teammates that can pressure him. Here is one example: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2057041095-j58cb7tdkwwb4lj0r2gf1n2ihnpx3t7pw

This example here has many things that GF hates(a tera grass flash fire mon, Tyranitar, Iron valiant and Garchomp that gives free chip to you). Still managed to clean up afterall(although I dont like how I played against Ceruledge) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2057051586-rz2wvrwhmz0qnpkgmaehvvg6289lg65pw

And here is an example of GF vs an average OU team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2055562914-bb0mte8s9wtm2yvwqw1na71ygs7ykuupw

Here is another irrelevant example for people who hate rain https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2056432270-l8aryswp5rpubg8m4j9np85dzumyuqmpw

Tl:dr: Speed Gouging Fire is one of the most oppressive mons in the tier right now. Not sure how much the tier can handle after rain falls off but I am having so much fun with this mon. You just get sun up, bring him in and mindlessly click a button. In fact NOT playing stupid is actually a hindrance since the opponent can counter offense you. Which is why I love this mon. Don't think I have felt this way since Chi-Yu. I still miss my CB Victini though.

as an avid gougehead, i've used all sorts of gouging fire sets and band protospeed is one of the most effective ones. you miss out on the really ridiculous calcs, but the gains against offense are massive. but my favorite set will always be max attack adamant band. the level of power you feel when your opponent switches into ting-lu or gliscor and you ohko them, or when they confidently switch into dondozo after you've tera'd and you proceed to deal 50% minimum, is just otherworldly

 

[Heatranator]

I've been using a snow team to get reqs (this is my second try, and it ain't looking good), and tera ice kyurem blizzard go brrrrrr.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Corviknight: 412-486 (103 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 420-496 (122.8 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 334-393 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 210-248 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO

Shit hits hard. Sometimes I just click that move and things vanish.

 

[naapuri]

To shift Pokemon, How is Kingambit not enough reason to suspect Supreme Overlord? Like what?

Banning an ability on only 1 pokemon goes against the way bans are handled. You either ban kingambit or dont, thats just how it is.

And back to Sun. Banning Damp Rock is missing the point and is extrmely short sighted long term.
Why would you not ban Sun first and then ban Archa?

Sun is not as oppressive as rain is right now. In time, both will probably be dealt with, but archaludon/rain is the more pressing matter right now