Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[fightnugget]

What use would Terapagos Terastal form even have in the tier if there's a complex ban on Stellar form?

Terastal is just a normal type spinner with a better multiscale, a bunch of coverage with low offensive stats, and no recovery. And if it's stellar form is hit then it will be the only mon on the game who can't Tera as well. The only thing it really has over Dragonite in this form is Rapid Spin + Calm Mind + Stealth Rock, and Tera Shell being a little better than Multiscale.

Banning the pokemon outright is more consistent and imo leaves more respect on Terapagos' name since without being able to Tera it won't fill a niche that anyone has asked for and definitely won't be worth it as you'll also have a normal type that can't Tera into anything. If Tera gets banned down the road (please no I love it,) bring it back.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Not saying terapagos isn’t broken. But I’m surprised i haven’t seen people run the actual counters or checks to it. Like I’m not seeing any ting Lu or blissey, not really seeing any of the fast fighting types that out speed +1 and OHKO.

All the Unaware users fold to Rest + Stored Power set, which also makes it immune to Toxic.

+3 252 SpA Terapagos-Stellar Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 220-260 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ting Lu can't do anything except Whirlwind. It's extremely passive and gets KO with enough boosts

+3 252 SpA Terapagos-Stellar Tera Starstorm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 244-288 (47.4 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You only need 3 Calm Mind to have 25% chance to 2hko Ting Lu. Not a great counter, if you ask me.

Whether some of these passive mons check Terapagos, depends on Terapagos set.

> fast fighting types that out speed +1 and OHKO.

Do they? None of them can even 3hko multiscale Terapagos Shell form at full HP, by which time it has already used Rock Polish, and then sweep entire team. Booster Valiant is slower than +2 Terapagos.

You don't see checks because they're not consistent, and you have to pray you get a favourable set since Terapagos has very flexible moveslots

 

[coral fan]

day 1 thoughts

high priority

• terapagos needs a quickban, i am fine with it being banned as a whole, and hopefully this can happen this weekend
• 2nd most broken guy, offensive sets basically guarantee value. whilst i think it's probably another quickban, deo-speed should be given at least a few days in a post-terapagos meta

medium priority

• i dont think this mon is likely to be healthy long term, but its comparatively fine for now. also i dont like the rng factor introduced by focus blast and hypnosis being on many sets
• it's still as much of a problem as pre-dlc imo. not sure that enough changed
• gouging fire is very good and people need to try running Morning Sun more. right now it feels overshadowed but i think it's likely to be one of the first suspect tests within the next couple months, it has everything.
• Tera should probably be suspected sometime soon, too

low priority

• sd 3atks booster boulder seems like the best set by far, it acts kind of like a faster but more one-dimensional physical valiant, probably worth looking into in the future
• haven't seen much of it yet, but based on ssou i wouldnt be surprised if it becomes a problem, especially with tera. losing roost is significant for non-specs sets

non-issues (for now)

• + all the other new guys all seem fine for now.

 

[Morkal]

Enamorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Superpower
- Sludge Bomb​

I love this thing right now - outspeeds Timid/Jolly 252 Deo-S and pretty much most of the meta as a whole - STAB Moonblast is INSANE, Earth Power/Superpower/Sludge Bomb is bonkers coverage. Definitely slept on for sure, it eats half of the current meta for breakfast right now.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I am happy that my boy gollurk is back.
too bad that it didn't receive any good buffs.
I guess it can abuse the stellar type slightly better than the average pokemon out there.

do you think that weavile can hope to go back to OU?
last month it almost made the cut, now it faces some competition with meowscarada.

 

[Sylvi]

not gonna lie, obviously Terapagos is overwhelming to deal with for reasons multiple stated hear. But don't ban it after not even two days. New dlc drops are always so exciting to play after the old meta was usually stabilized at the end of it's iteration. It is refreshing not to play 5x boots teams or the same rilla and webs team. All I am saying that pls enjoy the new (broken) stuff and ban volcarona when the time is right. Thanks for the council to test some Mons to allow some chaos, even regieleki was funny for the first hours since I could have used it on my own. We all should know the meta we are currently playing is not even close to the one we will play in a few weeks. We are not playing SPL Finals Tiebreaker next weekend in this post dlc 2 Meta, so pls calm with the request of banning instantly stuff. I made this post as I a silent reader of OU Threads to beg for ppl to post some shiest heat and reduce the whining over something that is not even a day old.
That being said I bless you all with the return of my little pony Keldeo and wish you a happy laddering, except you are the player I keep loosing to on ladder running hypnosis darkrai.

 

[fightnugget]

View attachment 580645


Enamorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Superpower
- Sludge Bomb​

I love this thing right now - outspeeds Timid/Jolly 252 Deo-S and pretty much most of the meta as a whole - STAB Moonblast is INSANE, Earth Power/Superpower/Sludge Bomb is bonkers coverage. Definitely slept on for sure, it eats half of the current meta for breakfast right now.

Scarf Enamo has been a mainstay on my teams since I picked up again in Nov. So nice. I usually run a +SpA Nature on Scarf since I'm still outspeeding +1 Tusk. Do you find yourself outrunning a lot more with +Spe?

Maybe run Rash on this one for more SpA + less weakness to Priority?

 

[Real Pikachu]

I love this thing right now - outspeeds Timid/Jolly 252 Deo-S and pretty much most of the meta as a whole - STAB Moonblast is INSANE, Earth Power/Superpower/Sludge Bomb is bonkers coverage. Definitely slept on for sure, it eats half of the current meta for breakfast right now.

Have you tried Terablast and Stellar instead of Superpower? I've been running shop with it.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

FirePon without Tera was not much more broken than WaterPon, for example. It hardly ever entered safely, had a horrible defensive typing, and did not have much better coverage (only better thanks to Mold Breaker). There is no chance it would have been quickbanned without Tera and this was discussed to death at the time.

Even aside from this, you refuting my comparison with this is nonsense. IF it were broken regardless, you are still missing the premise of divorcing the two forms as separare entities in tiering, which is the issue here. You are off base on both levels given that.

i maintain that firepon was still broken without the tera form—not quickban-within-two-weeks broken like she was with it, but definitely still too much for the tier. in my experience, she was picking up plenty of games without tera

also, the point remains that a lot of people are asking for terapagos-stellar to be tiered separately from the base form, and there are several points people have made that seem compelling to me but that you're shutting down without actually explaining why they're wrong. i respectfully disagree with the decision to ban a pokemon that is objectively not broken and not even particularly good simply for the cardinal sin of being attached to one that is. it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. if the choices are "keep terapagos-stellar" or "ban terapagos", i'm genuinely considering going with the former now

 

[Wolf-X]

People arguing to minimize collateral for their personal convenience will happen with every single potential ban. Tiering is firm and our game has only grown to the point it has and our community has only grown to the extent it has because our banlists tend to be justifiable and easy to understsnd for both experienced players and beginners.

If we give in once and do something wildly inconsistent and deploy incorrect precedent, it is going to create ripples that will have an impact we do not desire. This is not a topic for debate or discussion. It just is what it is. Accept it or not -- I cannot control you, but the reality is we will focus on the Pokemon and this is the right decision in-line with our tiering policy.

Also pls be very careful, so far in my experience Terapagos has been pretty easy to deal with at least in 1600 ELO.

So far imo its far from a banable mon. Most of the outcry just seems from people that still havent learnt what it does or how to deal with it.

Its very early and I even doubt it is even be suspect worthy. Might change my pov ofc but so fat this is it.

 

[pika pal]

FirePon without Tera was not much more broken than WaterPon, for example. It hardly ever entered safely, had a horrible defensive typing, and did not have much better coverage (only better thanks to Mold Breaker). There is no chance it would have been quickbanned without Tera and this was discussed to death at the time.

Even aside from this, you refuting my comparison with this is nonsense. IF it were broken regardless, you are still missing the premise of divorcing the two forms as separare entities in tiering, which is the issue here. You are off base on both levels given that.

I do think the Hearthflame comparison is a bit faulty, because there wasn't community support to ban it strictly over the Tera form and there was agreement that the base form was part of what made the whole worthy of action, which is very much not the case with Terapagos. While not worthy of a quickban with the base form alone, is this to say base Ogerpon-H does not compare to mons we deemed Suspect worthy either given Mold Breaker's utility into the Unaware users (legitimate question since the discussion will pertain to the entirety of Terapagos going rather than what method it is banned by)? Mentioning it as not being much more broken than Waterpon I also don't think is conducive to the presumed case since Waterpon is/was also regarded as problematic for traits of its base form in DLC1, even if never reaching the point of tiering action due to how many other things those months had to sort out.

This is not me saying what the Council should or should not do. In terms of reaching a more balanced tier, they will without question have better judgement than I, but the reasonings I am seeing shared here do not feel very solid to me as explained in terms of the examples chosen for Tiering Policy, aside from "Ubers Mega Ray is not applicable to OU" which I also agreed with when positing it earlier. This makes for a more solid case to focus on and more clearly communicates it as a matter of Policy, where things like the Complexity idea shared by others and the Ogerpon-H comparison made here don't feel like they hold up as soundly/objectively. And in the event the reasoning is simply "this is how the council is conducting it as a rule/general policy", then by all means it might be better to focus on that aspect, as examples with less airtight comparison will elicit debate on their applicability (as I admit to contributing to above) on top of any pushback against the decision/approach itself.

 

[Finchinator]

i maintain that firepon was still broken without the tera form—not quickban-within-two-weeks broken like she was with it, but definitely still too much for the tier. in my experience, she was picking up plenty of games without tera

Even if it was -- and it was absolutely not something you could say with the confidence you did, it still does not help your argument at all.

There was never a consideration to separate Ogerpon forms in tiering and that is the premise. You have not tackled that at all. You just said it was broken regardless, which misses the actual point of the precedent and argument.

also, the point remains that a lot of people are asking for terapagos-stellar to be tiered separately from the base form

A lot of people ask for everything. A lot of people want us to ban Terapagos now, too. A lot of people want Solgaleo to be dropped, but guess what a lot of people want it to never touch OU! A lot of people want Gholdengo banned, but guess what a lot of people never wanted it banned, too! We do not tier because "a lot of people are asking for..." we tier based on the policy that is in place. The fact that you included this in a post is silly.

but that you're shutting down without actually explaining why they're wrong

I have explained it over my last half dozen posts numerous times -- this is more than you get in most tiers across many bans, but I have done that within the last hour. Not my fault you are ignoring it and going overboard with non-arguments.

 

[Ihatestall]

Also pls be very careful, so far in my experience Terapagos has been pretty easy to deal with at least in 1600 ELO.

So far imo its far from a banable mon. Most of the outcry just seems from people that still havent learnt what it does or how to deal with it.

Its very early and I even doubt it is even be suspect worthy. Might change my pov ofc but so fat this is it.

In my experience, terapagos is hilarious. He either does nothing because some dumbass decided to overkill and set up another cm, or he 6-0s your team because you guessed the wrong set and gg

 

[sims796]

So my very first match, threw together some goofy haha team, not expecting victory.

What I got instead was...something else.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2012902901-r9yj3mizpeqfbwstqzzuajvhup0u7qgpw

I take back all of my Vileplume doubts, you guys are stuck with me until it's properly tier'd.

 

[Real Pikachu]

Terapagos @ Leftovers/Heavy-duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tera Starstorm
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power/Aura Sphere
​

This dude is Magearna with better Multiscale that can Mega-Evolve. You guess the set wrong and you literally just lose. So many people switch Gliscor in and get Beamed.

 

[Finchinator]

I am going to break Terapagos tiering down into one post and not comment further on the matter because we have a whole new metagame to enjoy and I am not going to waste my time responding to things (especially those said without reading my own prior posts or those said in bad faith).

If Terapagos is banned, it will be banned as a whole Pokemon -- not separated by form or interaction.

Terapagos itself is one Pokemon and no matter how you try to fragment it to cut collateral, you run into major tiering policy issues that either establish new precedent that is undesirable or contradict past precedent.

We do not have any interest in separating things based off of Tera-triggered forms. We did not handle Ogerpon-Hearthflame in that capacity (nor was there any outcry for it then). This point exists regardless of Ogerpon-H's pre-Tera form being broken or not and that is not an applicable counter-argument as it does not address the fact that the point exists regardless of it -- the handling would still be consistent and the same.

Going alongside this, the precedent cited to support fragmenting Terapagos is cited incorrectly on some fronts and inappicable on others. Ubers Mega Rayquaze precedent does not apply to OU as they have a different and more minimalist tiering approach than any usage based tier, which includes OU. Ubers is already a tier based off of a banlist, so they naturally have a diferent set of standards than we do.

 

[fightnugget]

View attachment 580650

Terapagos @ Leftovers/Heavy-duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tera Starstorm
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power/Aura Sphere
​

This dude is Magearna with better Multiscale that can Mega-Evolve. You guess the set wrong and you literally just lose. So many people switch Gliscor in and get Beamed.

I'm also running Ice Beam as coverage since i think its the coverage most mons in the tier are weak to, but do you really not miss the speed control on this thing?

I've been using

Terapagos @ Leftovers
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 248 HP / 40 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rock Polish
- Tera Starstorm
- Ice Beam

1 RP sets it up to outspeed +1 Boulder and also make it easier to set up more Calm Minds if you're now outspeeding special attackers that can't hurt you. The bulk is crazy, which is pretty even with your set. It does lack some power since Tera Starstorm doesn't get STAB so I have thought about moving HP Evs into SpA, but also this thing just chunks pokemon in general to make way for literally any other sweeper. This guy is crazy offensive support.

 

[Wolf-X]

View attachment 580650

Terapagos @ Leftovers/Heavy-duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tera Starstorm
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power/Aura Sphere
​

This dude is Magearna with better Multiscale that can Mega-Evolve. You guess the set wrong and you literally just lose. So many people switch Gliscor in and get Beamed.

Its slow and really wants Rock Polish to not get RK so it really suffers for 4 mss. Tera Stellar leaves it with the same mid defensive typing, and it is extremly sucetible to anything fighting type. In this extremly powerful HO meta terapagos needs to find the perfect timing to set up and actually 6-0.

Most sets get 2HKO or hard walled by Gholdengo. My SP Latias has had 0 issues when dealing with, same with other hard hitters that just 2HKO poor turtle

I suggest people to be patient and adapt. I understand many people cant build or are lost in the chaos so everything seems broken to them. Wish great sample teams never came back. Everything is so much fun when everyone is trying their own thing.

 

[redninjapuffle]

I am going to break Terapagos tiering down into one post and not comment further on the matter because we have a whole new metagame to enjoy and I am not going to waste my time responding to things (especially those said without reading my own prior posts or those said in bad faith).

If Terapagos is banned, it will be banned as a whole Pokemon -- not separated by form or interaction.

Terapagos itself is one Pokemon and no matter how you try to fragment it to cut collateral, you run into major tiering policy issues that either establish new precedent that is undesirable or contradict past precedent.

We do not have any interest in separating things based off of Tera-triggered forms. We did not handle Ogerpon-Hearthflame in that capacity (nor was there any outcry for it then). This point exists regardless of Ogerpon-H's pre-Tera form being broken or not and that is not an applicable counter-argument as it does not address the fact that the point exists regardless of it -- the handling would still be consistent and the same.

Going alongside this, the precedent cited to support fragmenting Terapagos is cited incorrectly on some fronts and inappicable on others. Ubers Mega Rayquaze precedent does not apply to OU as they have a different and more minimalist tiering approach than any usage based tier, which includes OU. Ubers is already a tier based off of a banlist, so they naturally have a diferent set of standards than we do.

I can get behind that logic, the only reason why I think some people want terapagos to stay is so they have a bulky spinner who has coverage to hit both gliscor and gholdengom, along with other reasons.
Honestly the full on ban makes sense and I understand why because this would be a very complex ban that may set a precedent that the council does not want to make

 

[ianlazerbeem]

Terapagos is the only Pokémon around right now I can confidently say is probably broken, everything else it's too early to say and we also must keep in mind the bias we feel where if we notice a new Pokémon redefining a role or shifting viability drastically, it may just be a change, not a problem. Here are my thoughts so far on what may be a few early radar candidates or mons others have discussed:

this thing is hilarious. 160 speed taunt makes this match really well into most leads not named Samurott. Haven't seen the so called offensive sets in action but I'm a little skeptical about them being that crazy due to relatively low output and being outsped by the new booster dudes. I don't think lead sets are broken at all, sure glimmora is about to be the best lead in UU, but what does this thing do? Set screens and hazards? So like any other HO lead? It does the job better than most of its competition but at the end of the day the outcome is pretty much the same. Plus Samurott is tailor made to destroy this mon. Seems to be a pult sidegrade as a screen setter since no curse. I like what this thing is so far

Iron Boulder seems reeeally strong... 124 speed with booster and the immediate power from that atk stat & fantastic movepool is a pretty big hurdle to jump whenever it's sent out. This thing smokes non scarf Darkrai but can be revenged by scarf variants, and also out speeds and ohkos valiant (another Mon that seems to have fallen off.) it's still early but I could see this getting banned lol

kind of torn on whether this guy is good or not, I tried the "Bax at home" set with Alolatales support but this thing really doesn't like the way Deoxys shits on Ninetales. I've gotten a pretty good sweep with it but having to commit your Tera to reliably hit steels while Terapagos is legal is not it. Once things settle a little more im Curious about specs on balance with Glowking support. Speed is kind of middling too, basically kind of an unfortunate tool kit where it can't do anything super well but does some niches well enough.

Packing Heat is no joke. Great bulk and defensive and offensive type, super scary so far. Hits crazy hard too and has great setup tools, and the access to booster energy or sun proto (incl speed) is pretty nasty. Not being able to take advantage of that dragon type with fairy moves also doesn't really work, another reason iron valiant is currently flipping burgers.

Long Neck is pretty scary too! The type is also pretty good and he's just so bulky... thunderclap is a scary move, complements its stats perfectly. Only played against a couple so don't have more developed thoughts

another hilarious mon, QD is still great but while Terapagos is legal you don't want to Tera it, so the movepool almost feels limited... Bug Buzz is also not great but funny af vs the people spamming Mid-rai and Deoxys. This Mon is what's most reliably winning me games right now

this thing is shit LOL so far I'm like 2 for 12 in terms of Darkrai putting work in when I send it out. As predicted, hits like a wet noodle without nasty plot and doesn't want to be hit on the plot turn. Scarf Actually seems decent! But there are so many really strong dudes with booster now and anything but scarf loses to Boulder (or honestly all of the new booster mons) hard. Maybe the worlds frailest Mon. If anything is actually banned we could see this change I guess. Has anyone had good luck with hypnosis I've not tried it yet

stellar is dix, not worth committing your Tera for +1 from a neutral move when you can just spam leaf storm. Pretty good Pokémon but not worthy of any tiering action any time soon

speed boost might be a lot, bulk up sets are really good

probably cracked, the ability of the non Tera form is really good, absurdly bulky and strong post Tera and the toolkit is pretty incredible, you can also run just the one 120 BP neutral move and be fine offensively and spend the rest on setup. Taking this thing down is a Herculean effort and often for HO (which is what I've been running mostly) takes multiple mons. Double dance seems to be the scariest set so far. This is the only Pokémon I'm pretty comfortable saying should probably be banned

very curious on other people's takes, what have your experiences been with these mons, what are your thoughts? Am I on drogas or cooking?

 

[Finchinator]

I can get behind that logic, the only reason why I think some people want terapagos to stay is so they have a bulky spinner who has coverage to hit both gliscor and gholdengom, along with other reasons.
Honestly the full on ban makes sense and I understand why because this would be a very complex ban that may set a precedent that the council does not want to make

I very much understand how awesome it would be to have an additional new Pokemon in the tier with such a unique movepool and set of qualities. And I want it, too. But we have to be realistic and consistent here sadly

 

[Real Pikachu]

I'm also running Ice Beam as coverage since i think its the coverage most mons in the tier are weak to, but do you really not miss the speed control on this thing?

I'll be real most of my games I just send it out to eat a Supereffective hit, it takes 10%, my opponent switches on what they think is Calm Mind and then they take 60% from Starstorm. This mon would be broken without the ability to Mega-Evolve on god.

Its slow and really wants Rock Polish to not get RK so it really suffers for 4 mss. Tera Stellar leaves it with the same mid defensive typing, and it is extremly sucetible to anything fighting type. Im this extremly powerful HO meta terapagos needs to find the perfect timing to set up and actually 6-0.

This thing is Magearna, it has like 5 top tier sets. It does not need Rock Polish, it can literally 1v1 any non-fighting STAB mon in OU that isn't named Ting-Lu. You can run double dance, you can run bulky, you can run Specs. They're all broken. It's ability is absurd, especially with Wish passing and Grassy Terrain.

 

[cyrtie]

Terapagos is not impossible to handle but I have found that in OU something gets banned if it has too restrictive counterplay or that the counterplay is not like a commonly used pokemon so what will tip the scales one way or the other is how specific the counterplay is and if it can be dealt with an average team. Simply letting it click calm mind a few times obviously makes it sweep but you can say that with most pokemon, the main drawback i see is its pretty bad speed and remember its bulk is the same as Snorlax but on both sides which is something to consider. Obviously it is much better than snorlax but just as a comparison I mentioned it. Let us give Terapagos a few days and we will see if it is too centralizing or not. I do feel it has a possibility to be an OU pokemon but we will see. Keep up the good work Finchinator and the rest of you guys, this must be stressful with all the people screaming ban this and ban that. Aight have a good one.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Its slow and really wants Rock Polish to not get RK so it really suffers for 4 mss. Tera Stellar leaves it with the same mid defensive typing, and it is extremly sucetible to anything fighting type. Im this extremly powerful HO meta terapagos needs to find the perfect timing to set up and actually 6-0.

Most sets get 2HKO or hard walled by Gholdengo. My SP Latias has had 0 issues when dealing with, same with other hard hitters that just 2HKO poor turtle

I suggest people to be patient and adapt. I understand many people cant build or are lost in the chaos so everything seems broken to them. Wish great sample teams never came back. Everything is so much fun when everyone is trying their own thing.

A mon with 144 bp unresisted move with double dance sweeping set and 160/110/110 bulk, suffers from 4mss? I know several top tier Ubers who have worse 4MSS, this aint it dawg.

 

[taziathegreat]

All the Unaware users fold to Rest + Stored Power set, which also makes it immune to Toxic.

+3 252 SpA Terapagos-Stellar Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 220-260 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ting Lu can't do anything except Whirlwind. It's extremely passive and gets KO with enough boosts

+3 252 SpA Terapagos-Stellar Tera Starstorm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 244-288 (47.4 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You only need 3 Calm Mind to have 25% chance to 2hko Ting Lu. Not a great counter, if you ask me.

Whether some of these passive mons check Terapagos, depends on Terapagos set.

> fast fighting types that out speed +1 and OHKO.

Do they? None of them can even 3hko multiscale Terapagos Shell form at full HP, by which time it has already used Rock Polish, and then sweep entire team. Booster Valiant is slower than +2 Terapagos.

You don't see checks because they're not consistent, and you have to pray you get a favourable set since Terapagos has very flexible moveslots

I mean well, yeah if you give a Pokémon 4 turns of set up it’s checks are shakey at best.
Also your vali calc’s are wrong, your accounting for it having multi scale up all 3 turns.